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| Shingo The One 405th Post
 
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|  "Re(1):DMC3<DMC2" , posted Sat 19 Feb 03:54
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Even though it is of a far better quality than its predecessor, DMC3 sold less copies the first day (133,929 against 196,169 for DMC2).
Let's hope the situation will get better as the third game wins more fans, and we will all finally be able to forget that horrible, horrible failure.
No, I so can't believe this.Devil May Cry 3:Dante's Awakening is their second consecutive hit game after the new Resident Evil, and yet both haven't sold too many copies in their homeland, even if they are the first two grand games of this year.
Hell, it's good if people buy both of them and if not, they will so miss out on two unique games and anyway, these two franchises will still be around for quite some time.
There is a difference between doing it FIRST and doing it RIGHT.
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| DarkZero 1114th Post
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| "Re(5):DMC3<DMC2" , posted Sat 19 Feb 14:30
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Did RE4 sell well in Japan?
Last week : 13,491, for a total copies of 184,124.
I don't know if it's big for a GC title... probably not.
Well, looking at 2004's Japanese sales numbers:
18 Pikmin 2 Nintendo 470,933
21 Mario Party 6 Nintendo 422,938
24 Paper Mario RPG Nintendo 398,218
33 Mario Tennis GC Nintendo 330,125
35 Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 3 Tomy 304,627
So yeah, not that great, even for a GameCube game. You can definitely see why Capcom's shareholders would've been angry about GameCube exclusivity, though. Even if Resident Evil 4 were THE best selling GameCube game of the year, last year's best selling GameCube game came in at number eighteen on the overall console/portable game sales last year.
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| deisied 256th Post
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| "This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Sat 19 Feb 16:55
Eh. I've never really taken Dante incredibly seriously in the first place, but I find DMC3's cutscenes to be really genuinely fun. First, the coreography, which is obviously ridiculous, but I have an appreciation for. The eye for using space and gravity and martial arts/fighting in unique ways. Everyone chalks it up to an "LOL OMG THE MATRIX GENERATION" thing, but I give it some genuine credit. At least personally.
As for Dante and his personality and voice acting, yeah, they didn't hold back at all in making him a loud stupid jerk, but, for some reason it never feels like "Flock of feather-face!" or "I SHOULD'VE BEEN THE ONE TO FILL YOUR DARK SOUL WITH LAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIGHT" type making me want to lock the door cheesy. More like "Heh, I can't believe this guy, awesome" type cheesy.
I could certainly see why someone would feel the way you do, but still, it seems way more in just good fun than you're supposed to really swallow what's occuring. So, if I played games around anyone, sure, I'd probably do it with this one, more likely than DMC1 even.
And uh, I think that guy was trying to say you don't have much grounds for saying the cutscenes are embarassing if you haven't pplayed the game much, or at least saying the sentence looked bad or something...blip
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| Pollyanna 860th Post
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| "Re(1):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Sat 19 Feb 17:31
Ah, I see. I didn't play much, but I still did 5 levels. I guess I should have specified. I just got done playing a bit more.
It's not like I'm looking for a deep plot, or even a coherent/interesting/non-typical one. I'd be disappointed if the game wasn't cheesy, but that doesn't make it any less embarrassing. Dante surfing on the missle was TOO MUCH. That CROSSED THE LINE.
But I don't like DMC for the stupid story and the cheesy one-liners. I don't like it because Dante's cool, either (because he isn't)...I like it because it plays so well and the backgrounds are amazing. I can't think of a game with better backgrounds than this. It blows my mind. The only problem I've had with the game is that when I try to roll, I end doing the backflip dodge instead, because the camera turns. There's no way to consistantly predict when I have to press in a different direction. Maybe this is just my problem, though.
And yes, I played Onimusha 3. That's another game that was truly exceptional, but had a horrifically awful plot. Both it and DMC3 seem like insane super budget Hollywood movies.
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| deisied 258th Post
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| "Re(4):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Sat 19 Feb 18:54:
I pretty much agree with you Pollyanna, and I used to say pretty much the same thing too, but for some reason with 3 it just works for me.
But yeah though are those environments not freakin sharp?
As for dodging, not sure what to say yet, Trickster is good for reliability though.
As for difficulty, there are different ways for a game to be difficult, and I'd say Devil May Cry 1,3 and Ninja Gaiden fall under the really good way, so I'm not sure if pretty damn hard is a bad thing the way you're trying to say it, because really, it's a great deal of what I sign up for when I think of DMC.
And randomly, I think Dante's hair has always been off honestly, so it's not much different for me here, but personally, I also think his overall look in 3 is definitely the best, and really...I can't wait to unlock shirtless Dante...
[this message was edited by deisied on Sat 19 Feb 19:04] |
| Pollyanna 861th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(5):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Sat 19 Feb 19:17
DMC3 is NOT too hard. REPEAT. DMC3 is NOT too hard.
If the game was any easier, it wouldn't be worthwhile. Games these days provide you with unlimited tries at just about anything and plenty of opportunities to backtrack and power up. In DMC3 not only can you continue any time you die, you continue VERY close to where you died. Going back to earlier levels to get items is also easy.
I'm...hmm...well, I just beat the horse boss (I played quite a bit tonight) which is in level...10, I think? That's halfway or more through and I have never used an item. If I DID use items, then the game would be too easy, not too hard. And if I wanted to make it too easy, then all I would have to do is do a few levels in the beginning over again.
The difficulty in the game is very reasonable. I don't know what people who say the game is too hard want from a video game. If they just want to kick ass without any effort, they can put it on easy, or go play something like Gungrave...or maybe Super Robot Wars.
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| Burning Kyo 2255th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
  
|  "Re(5):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Sat 19 Feb 19:26:
If Dante is so stupid in this DMC (his clothes, his haircut, everything that he does in the cutscenes, ... etc.), it's just for making Vergil looks cooler.
IMO, the 1st time that you play in "normal" difficulty, the game is as difficult as DMC1 (maybe a little bit harder).
But if you've already finished the game one time in "easy", and then you play in "normal", you'll keep everything that you've unlocked from the "easy" difficulty : weapons, life bar, DT stocks, styles, your own experience with the bosses :p ... etc.
So ...
[Live fast // Die young]
[this message was edited by Burning Kyo on Sat 19 Feb 19:29] |
| Pollyanna 887th Post
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| "Re(2):DMC3<DMC2" , posted Fri 25 Feb 20:39
Ah, that's really a shame. The video game market is becoming an ugly place. Capcom may deserve some retribution for making DMC2, but I hate to see a good game suffer because of it.
DMC3 is...arguably the best 3D action game I've ever played. I know my opinion doesn't really count for much, but the game comes with my absolute highest recommendation. I hate all of the characters and the humor and especially the music, but it was such an amazing game that I could ignore all of that.
If nothing else, it has the single best unlockable ever. Even if you don't play the game, you should find some way to download the motion capture/storyboard videos. They're absolutely amazing.
Oh, and my final note on the game being too hard...on normal difficulty, I beat the last boss in 3 minutes using 2 small heals. Those were the only healing items I used in the game. I never bought any healing items, I won the game with 3 unused golden orbs (100% revival) and I never bought any life/devil trigger upgrades until the very end of the game. I'm not especially awesome at video games, and certainly not especially awesome at 3D action games, so the complaints, in my opinion, are totally unfounded.
It's a different story (somewhat) on hard, but I don't think anyone was complaining that hard was too hard.
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| VariantX
248th Post
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| "Re(6):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Fri 25 Feb 21:12
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DMC3 is NOT too hard. REPEAT. DMC3 is NOT too hard.
If the game was any easier, it wouldn't be worthwhile. Games these days provide you with unlimited tries at just about anything and plenty of opportunities to backtrack and power up. In DMC3 not only can you continue any time you die, you continue VERY close to where you died. Going back to earlier levels to get items is also easy.
I'm...hmm...well, I just beat the horse boss (I played quite a bit tonight) which is in level...10, I think? That's halfway or more through and I have never used an item. If I DID use items, then the game would be too easy, not too hard. And if I wanted to make it too easy, then all I would have to do is do a few levels in the beginning over again.
The difficulty in the game is very reasonable. I don't know what people who say the game is too hard want from a video game. If they just want to kick ass without any effort, they can put it on easy, or go play something like Gungrave...or maybe Super Robot Wars.
You have to use the yellow orbs to continue in the US and EU game. Otherwise its back to the beginning of the level. Though I could just go back to the first level and red orb harvest there.
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| DarkZero 1127th Post
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| "Re(8):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Fri 25 Feb 22:49
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You have to use the yellow orbs to continue in the US and EU game. Otherwise its back to the beginning of the level. Though I could just go back to the first level and red orb harvest there.
Do you keep all your stuff after you die? Or does the whole level reset? I mean...do you keep the orbs/style exp you got, or does that reset as well? And if you die on a boss, it resets too? That can't be right. If you make it to a golden statue, it should "save" there.
From everything I've heard, the yellow orbs in the US and EU editions of DMC3 work exactly like the yellow orbs in DMC1. If you use a yellow orb, you can restart at a save point within the mission. If you run out of yellow orbs, you restart the mission entirely.
It wasn't too big a deal in DMC1, but it sounds like it might matter more in DMC3. In DMC1, the only place where I really felt screwed when I ran out of yellow orbs was at the first boss. If Phantom killed me once, I would just use a yellow orb and respawn outside the door to his boss room. If he killed me four or five times and I ran out of yellow orbs, I'd have to redo the entire level and then challenge him again. (This is why Phantom took me like two hours to finish in DMC1, which I found very interesting, but ridiculously frustrating. Then I found out what "Air Raid" was.)
I'm assuming that this comes back to what I've read in interviews with the developers of DMC1 and Shinobi. Both teams claimed that they got very different feedback from Japanese and American players, with the Japanese mainstream players who bought the game complaining that the game was too hard, while most of the American gamers who bought the game were part of a large (compared to Japan) hardcore niche that just begged for more difficulty. This defies common sense, but I've seen it claimed multiple times by Japanese action game developers. Maybe it's just because the American market is larger overall than the Japanese market?
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| deisied 265th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(9):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Sat 26 Feb 14:43
Except...Phantom's mission is one of the shortest boss missions in the game. All you have to do is walk across the bridge, shoot a few skulls, and walk back across the bridge.
Nero Angelo 2 and 3, and Griffon 2 are far more annoying in that sense.
To answer Pollyanna's question, no. You don't keep your orbs and such, but you could press select at any time and save how many orbs you have. So yes and no. It doesn't AUTOMATICALLY do it, but you can. If you're worried about it. Still, if you save, you'll have to start the mission over, but at least it won't be entirely wasted.
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| DarkZero 1130th Post
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| "Re(10):This is gonna be one hell of a porty!" , posted Tue 1 Mar 13:53:
GameSpot finally has their review up, one day before the game's release. I haven't read many DMC3 reviews, but I noticed something that I haven't seen mentioned here:
"For example, there aren't any difficulty settings to choose from at first, and, as a matter of fact, the default difficulty mode here is actually the Japanese version's "hard" mode, which could only be accessed after finishing that version of the game." (Emphasis mine)
Heh heh heh. I think I actually snickered when I heard this. They took out the "normal" difficulty, set the game to "Hard", and then took the infinite continues out of the game? Awesome. Absolutely awesome.
And even better, this means that the American DMC3's "Normal" Mode is even harder than the Japanese DMC3's Hard Mode, because your items and weapons, as far as I know, continue over to the next difficulty mode just like they did in DMC1. So you wind up starting Hard Mode without the average Japanese player's extra-long life gauge, full DT meter, variety of weapons, and healing items up the wazoo, because you haven't played through the entire game once already.
Awesome.
[this message was edited by DarkZero on Tue 1 Mar 14:37] |
| DarkZero 1131th Post
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| "Re(3):Re(10):This is gonna be one hell of a p" , posted Tue 1 Mar 15:53:
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That's fine, but let me ask you...how many things would they have to do to make it harder before you would decide that it was too hard and no longer awesome?
I doubt they'll add even harder modes than the Japanese, so the downside is that there are 2 fewer difficulty modes in the US one. That, and the game will be inaccessible to younger players. This is fine for hardcore people, but since a number of importers complained about the Japanese version being too hard, it may hurt sales.
This is kind of a hard question for me to answer, mostly because I haven't actually played the game, and like absolutely everyone else, haven't played the American version of the game.
The thing is, though... the game asks you, after you've had a taste of Hard Mode, if you want to switch to Easy Mode (which may or may not be the Japanese Normal Mode, from GameSpot's description). So if someone is tearing their hair out in frustration because Capcom decided to set the default difficulty to Hard Mode, they can always opt out of it. If they decide to stick with Hard Mode because Easy Mode doesn't make them feel like a Real Man, that's their fault.
Then again, if Easy Mode really isn't much easier at all, as GameSpot claimed, then that is decidedly not awesome. It's pretty hard to balance Easy Mode to be easier than Normal Mode without being Short Bus Mode (::run, run, run:: "Derrr, I'm gonna kill you, Dante! Oh damn, I forgot how to attack! Gosh, I hope he doesn't splash my entrails across the wall!"), but a seasoned developer like Capcom is supposed to be able to do that.
I actually find it odd that GameSpot complains about this method of difficulty selection, since it's a lot better than most games'. If you found MGS3 too hard in Normal Mode, you have to start over in Easy Mode, losing at least a couple hours of play time. You're punished for finding it too hard. DMC3's way of politely popping up and asking if you don't like the difficulty level after a couple of missions seems a lot more fair.
Edited for grammar; "If they decide to stick with Hard Mode..." sentence was back-asswards and didn't make any sense without better grammar
[this message was edited by DarkZero on Tue 1 Mar 16:58] |
| Pollyanna 891th Post
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| "Re(4):Re(10):This is gonna be one hell of a p" , posted Tue 1 Mar 17:28
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The thing is, though... the game asks you, after you've had a taste of Hard Mode, if you want to switch to Easy Mode (which may or may not be the Japanese Normal Mode, from GameSpot's description). So if someone is tearing their hair out in frustration because Capcom decided to set the default difficulty to Hard Mode, they can always opt out of it. If they decide to stick with Hard Mode because Easy Mode doesn't make them feel like a Real Man, that's their fault.
Really!? That sounds like a really great method of doing things. I was about to be quite angry at Capcom of America for alienating their audience, but I think this is probably for the best. I assume that "easy" mode is the same as Japanese "normal". I want to say "there's no need for an (Japanese) easy mode", but that's a sort of biased opinion, since I tend to feel that most games I play aren't hard enough.
But, if it's like you said, then it provides the best of both worlds and motivates players to try a tougher difficulty (no one wants to "admit" to taking the easy way out).
Regardless, it still seems like an odd choice, since people are complaining (unjustly) that the Japanese version is too hard.
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| DarkZero 1133th Post
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| "Re(5):Re(10):This is gonna be one hell of a p" , posted Thu 3 Mar 14:35:
Picked up the American version of DMC3 today. So far, I've only played about an hour or so, so I'm only up to Mission 3.
- Yes, it's friggin' hard. If you've played DMC1 in Hard Mode, you pretty know the tricks to staying alive, like watching for enemies' pre-attack animations and smacking enemies in the face to stop them from attacking instead of just dodging or blocking their attack. I could definitely see new players ripping their hair out playing the game. The game does, however, have a very good tutorial that I can't turn off after turning it on (!!!) and it told me that easy mode was unlocked after I died in Mission 3.
- It feels just like playing DMC1 in Hard Mode with Sparda, which is to say that it teeter-totters on the line between fantastic and boring. It's intense and a whole lot of fun, but the battles feel like they go on forever because there are a lot of enemies with a lot of HP and it feels like it takes forever to kill them.
- The Cerberus boss can kill you in two hits. When you die at this boss, you have no yellow orbs (or I just haven't found them?), and you start Mission 3 over from the beginning. This means that every time you die, you have to reset your style (if you were changing it from the previous mission), fight through the level again, find every secret again, make your purchases at the golden statue again, and take another shot at Cerberus. I hope I'm just missing something, because this seems like a huge design flaw. And AFAIK, Easy Mode does not give you the Japanese version's unlimited continues back, it just weakens the enemies and bosses.
So far I think the game is great, though I'm still getting used to the controls. Not sure how great a game it is for people that aren't DMC fanboys, though.
EDIT UPDATE: Got two more hours of play in... still on Mission 3. Pausing and saving the game right before Cerberus saves all of the statues you've destroyed, the secret mission that you've completed, and most importantly, your red orbs and style XP, so that you can keep saving up red orbs with each run. That makes the process of going back through the level every time Cerberus kills me a little easier, but it's still annoying. Worse, Cerberus does so much damage that even after being killed by him like a dozen times, he's still whipping out new moves that I've never seen before. At this point, the American version of DMC3 is reminding me more and more of Shinobi.
[this message was edited by DarkZero on Thu 3 Mar 17:20] |
| DarkZero 1137th Post
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| "Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):This is gonna be one hell" , posted Fri 4 Mar 23:54
No one seems to mention this on any of the FAQs or boards over at GameFAQs, so I figured I'd ask here, in the hopes that maybe someone's already beat the game, or knows someone who has:
With Normal Mode essentially gone and replaced by Hard Mode, does anyone know how the unlockables work? When you beat the game the first time, do you get all of the unlockables that you would've gotten in the Japanese version for beating Normal and Hard? Do you go directly to Dante Must Die, or did they make a new (renamed?) Hard Mode for after we finish the game? I don't know why I'm so curious about this. I just am.
Also, for anyone that hasn't bought the game yet and is still following this thread, I wouldn't say that the US version of the game is so much "hard" any more, as it is weird, which a lot of the kids over at GameFAQs seemed to be coming around to, as well. For instance, the Mission 7 boss probably killed me three or four times, which would be considered normal in any other game. However, every time he beats me, I have to go back through a level that takes 15 to 20 minutes to finish, even if you breeze through it as fast as possible. So when you think back on it, your mind just kind of rationalizes it as "Total Time To Beat Mission 7 Boss = 1 hour +". The lack of infinite continues really isn't that bad an idea, but it's clear that the game wasn't designed with it in mind. Overall, it's not that bad, though.
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| DarkZero 1140th Post
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| "Re(2):You can't come to the porty!" , posted Sat 5 Mar 22:56
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I just wish they had managed the difficulty a bit better for the US DMC. I played the Japanese on hard, and it was still fun, but sort of irritating to have to hit the enemies so much. Too much limp body juggling for my tastes. I like smarter, faster and more enemies, but not much on the increased durability.
Honestly, after you get used to Hard Mode, you don't even feel their durability any more. You just get used to using tactics that tick away at their HP constantly. For instance, instead of dodging an attack, I'll Air Hike, mash Ebony & Ivory for a little bit, switch to Rebellion for the downward slash, then switch back to Agni & Rudra to keep tearing them up on the ground. It just becomes second nature to devote every move to dealing damage and hitting as many enemies as possible with one move.
The really frustrating thing is the lack of save points. I'm currently fighting a very easy boss (Nevan) who just keeps getting a couple lucky shots in every time I fight her. And her level is at least twenty, maybe more like twenty-five, minutes long. The difficulty isn't getting to me, but the goddamn speed runs through fairly easy levels definitely are. And I'm definitely enjoying the game less because of it, even though the rest of it is awesome.
quote:
I REALLY like the enemy design in this game. Just a personal thing, but I think they're great. Love that first boss!
I'm loving the enemy designs, too. I especially like Mission 2 and Mission 9 bosses so far, because they seem like distant relatives of normal enemies from the original DMC. The Mission 2 boss even has the same exact laugh as the Sin Scythes. That's just a cool little touch. Between them and Vergil, a lot of the game feels very familiar.
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| deisied 267th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(3):You can't come to the porty!" , posted Sun 6 Mar 09:09
Why the hell are you playing DMC if you don't want to do long, stylish combos?
Anyway, you still didn't explain very well. What if they spent the money on making a wonderful game people who like to play hard games will enjoy? If you make a game for a certain kind of person, then only the people it appeals to should play it. If someone else jumps in, says it's too hard, and quits, then it just doesn't appeal to them. If the idea of swinging around sword appeals to them, but just not the hard part, there are plenty of other games to play.
This is kinda what I hate. I wish people would make more personal games honestly. Not everything should have to be accessible, not everything should have to appeal to damn everyone. I understand what an industry is, but it doesn't mean there can't be things made by people passionate about something specific for people passionate about something specific. Again, is Gran Turismo 4 wrong for alienating me because there's no epic plots and swords in it? What's up with them making a racing game, after all, I don't want to play a racing game! Well. Someone does, and that's the point. There's simply nothing wrong with that. You just think it's different because of the principle of the idea of it being hard I guess.
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| DarkZero 1141th Post
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| "Re(5):You can't come to the porty!" , posted Sun 6 Mar 15:55
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DarkZero: Seeing as you can save in the middle of missions and retain your orbs, why the hell is Nevan's mission taking you 25 minutes the next time around if you don't want it to? All you have to do is fight 2 sets of Arachne in two rooms. The first room, and the room with the ambrosia. There's no way for this to take more than 5 minutes, so you grab the ambrosia, and run to her room. Boom, battle begins. Unless you're going for S rank, why don't you just buy a couple yellow orbs so you don't have to do the whole stage over again?
Really though, I kinda think she's the easiest boss in the game.
...Wow. I'd gotten so used to annihilating everything in DMC that I didn't even think of skipping through the rooms without red barriers. I just kind of guessed that they were all blocked for some reason. Anyway, it was a lot quicker this time, and I used more Yellow Orbs (I was already using one, I upped it to three).
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Nevan was definitely the easiest boss in the game, but I was mostly getting defeated by cheap shots. There were a couple of deaths where I genuinely screwed up, but most of them were due to not knowing what some of her moves did the first time around, like the electric floor and the kiss that she uses when her health bar is really low.
So far the guitar weapon is really cool, but I just hit Lvl 3 Swordmaster and the two don't really seem to combine well. It seems like more of a Gunslinger or Royal Guard weapon, because it's slower and a lot of it is based on ranged or defense attacks. I think I'm gonna stick with Agni & Rudra.
End of Spoiler
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As for the enemy durability, considering how long I like to carry my combos on, sometimes they don't live enough for me, especially when using Swordmaster or Gunslinger (not always, though).
Yeah, I didn't really mind the durability because of the potential for combos. I was actually sort of disappointed when I saw Ebony & Ivory tearing up lesser enemies at Lvl 3. It seemed like a wasted opportunity for accumulating style points.
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