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| OmegaDog 1445th Post
 
Red Carpet Executive Member
    
    
    
    
|  "Trying to make sense of Ultracade & MAME" , posted Tue 22 Feb 03:14:
So this started last night as a rumor that Ultracade (previous Ultracade thread link) had somewhat dubiously acquired the MAME trademark/patent/whatever, then a note that Ultracade was shutting down MAME auctions on eBay.
Then it exploded into rumors that Ultracade had plans to legally tackle MAME and its developers, with much crying afoul based on these rumors, much corporate hate-mongering, and much purported hate-mail sending to the Ultracade CEO, many of them incorrectly assuming that Ultracade used MAME in its machines and was "biting the hand that fed it."
... then people were starting to notice that despite the rumors, Ultracade hadn't acquired any patent but was applying for some kind of patent/trademark/something.
Then the Ultracade CEO quickly issued a statement that Ultracade is just after illegal arcade manufacturers and not the MAME hobby project (though they hint that they don't like MAME), and they assume that the rumors were started by a bunch of angry auctioneers that weren't too keen on having their auctions removed, who then proceeded to spread lies on forums.
Then there were accusations that Ultracade wasn't telling the whole story, then people still continuted sending hate mail, a lot of it seeming to be based on misinformation...
... and frankly, the whole thing just seems to be an incredible mess in terms of the info that's out there.
So, um... is anyone taking the time to sort through the falsities and coming up with what's really going on here? Right now, I'm kinda putting more weight into what Ultracade is saying -- the other side (a mass of angry net people) seems to be playing an incredible game of telephone.
CCT: NEXT STAGE IS 20
[this message was edited by OmegaDog on Tue 22 Feb 03:36] |
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| DarkZero 1122th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(1):Trying to make sense of Ultracade & MAM" , posted Tue 22 Feb 16:22
quote:
So this started last night as a rumor that Ultracade (previous Ultracade thread link) had somewhat dubiously acquired the MAME trademark/patent/whatever, then a note that Ultracade was shutting down MAME auctions on eBay.
Well, Ultracade's response wasn't exactly a stunning defense of whatever it is that they're doing, as it uses ridiculous logic and doesn't make a lot of sense. They claim that putting a PC running MAME in a cabinet and selling it on eBay without any ROMs in it is some sort of piracy, because there's clearly "no way" that anyone could play legal ROMs on it, and act as if selling such a cabinet is somehow illegal. So the holes in that logic would be:
A) Devices that can play copyrighted works that you haven't paid for are not illegal (see: VCR, CD player, MP3 player, personal computer).
B) StarROMs sells legal ROMs. The CEO of Ultracade mentions StarROMs, but not in a sensical way. Apparently, it's wrong to sell a PC in a MAME cabinet without any ROMs on it because StarROMs only allows consumers to buy their ROMs, not distributors. Somehow, in his logic, no one could ever possibly buy a MAME cabinet and THEN go to StarROMs as a customer.
C) Capcom offers legal ROMs with HanaHo equipment. These ROMs can either be loaded onto a MAME cabinet by a distributor who purchased the equipment or by a customer who decided to add the equipment to their cabinet.
This guy must be really out of touch if he thought the Slashdot crowd was going to buy the argument "If it can be used to infringe copyrights, it's illegal". Going against that logic would pretty much be the whole point of Slashdot for the last five years or so. It's kind of like walking into a bar and yelling at the "sinners" to "repent" for "drinking Satan's vile liquid". Kind of an uphill battle.
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| OmegaDog 1449th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Trying to make sense of Ultracade & MAM" , posted Tue 22 Feb 16:50:
There is kind of the test of substantial non-infringing use, though -- according to the EFF, that's how the VCR was allowed to survive, as the courts figured the non-infringing uses of such a recorded substantially exceeded the infringing uses.
Now -- MAME's on a different level, I recognize (a device more appropriate to contrast the VCR concept would be the console cartridge back-up devices) -- but still, the CEO is trying to argue that, for someone wanting to enjoy arcade games through MAME, the prices of such back-up devices to make one's own ROM files, along with purchasing all the ROM sets a person wants, would be prohibitive such that most people would opt for using someone else's backup ROMs instead -- and as such, they're trying to argue that the MAME cabinets have more infringing uses than non-infringing uses.
As regards the argument of prohibitive costs -- there'd be the problem of defining that threshold of "prohibitive," though.
CCT: NEXT STAGE IS 20
[this message was edited by OmegaDog on Tue 22 Feb 16:52] |
| DarkZero 1123th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(3):Trying to make sense of Ultracade & MAM" , posted Tue 22 Feb 19:12
quote:
Now -- MAME's on a different level, I recognize (a device more appropriate to contrast the VCR concept would be the console cartridge back-up devices) -- but still, the CEO is trying to argue that, for someone wanting to enjoy arcade games through MAME, the prices of such back-up devices to make one's own ROM files, along with purchasing all the ROM sets a person wants, would be prohibitive such that most people would opt for using someone else's backup ROMs instead -- and as such, they're trying to argue that the MAME cabinets have more infringing uses than non-infringing uses.
As regards the argument of prohibitive costs -- there'd be the problem of defining that threshold of "prohibitive," though.
Well, you can get six or more popular Atari games from Star ROMs for $20, which is cheaper than most of those "Atari X-in-1" packs, regardless of what form they come in. And if you're using Hanaho's equipment, which a lot of MAME cabinet makers are going to use anyway, you get 14 Capcom ROMs, including 1941, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Street Fighter II, Strider, and UN Squadron, all of which I've sunk many, many hours into. I wouldn't say that the costs are any more prohibitive than they are for an MP3 player. An hour of music on a CD is about $15, whereas six Atari games from Star ROMs are $20.
And besides that, the "substantial non-infringing use" bit is a legal precedent. That's not what's involved here. Right now, MAME cabinets are in no way illegal, but Ultracade is getting their competition kicked off of eBay by pretending they are, and they're trying to use circular logic to convince people that their competition is somehow illegal, which it isn't. A computer in a MAME cabinet is no more illegal than a computer running MAME at home. If Ultracade wants to sue to make MAME cabinets (which are basically just PCs in a big wooden box) illegal, that would be one thing. Instead, they're just lying about them and claiming that they're illegal, because they know that there's no way they would win such a case.
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