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| shin ramberk
90th Post
 
Occasional Customer
  
|  "Re(1):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 10:01
quote:
I know this is an odd question, but it seems to me that I mostly see ken players, in Cvs2, SFIICE, SFa2. Ken's multi-hit attacks are better, he's a little faster...why would people play ryu?
There must be some ryu players out there (I think I saw it in sano's sig?), so please explain to me why he's still a relevant character. That's not meant as an insult, I figure I must be missing something...
This seems like a bizarre questions coming from you Exodus, I mean, I always thought of you having a lot of arcade wisdom and such. Anyhow, my answer:
Yes, people play ryu. Who knows why you live in a 'ryu black hole'.
Ryu is relevant because he's a good character too choose in CvS1, CvS2, ST, SFA2, SFA3, 3S but not in PF and MvC2. He's relevant because he's Capcom's SF icon.
You just live in a weird bizarro land but Ryu is usually a top tier character. I mean, its true for all of the games I listed-- thats over 10 years of dominance in SF games. Maybe people have more fun playing as Ken then Ryu where you live?
I never pick Ryu or Ken-- to boring IMO. Akuma is fun, has a lot more options and is just tricky guy. Sakura is just fun too. Ryu and Ken seem to be about the same 2-3 strategies and set-ups. BORING.
Go buy the new Warlock series by Marvel. It is good support this title!
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| Pollyanna 958th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
    
    
 
| "Re(2):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 10:03
quote:
This seems like a bizarre questions coming from you Exodus, I mean, I always thought of you having a lot of arcade wisdom and such. Anyhow, my answer:
Yes, people play ryu. Who knows why you live in a 'ryu black hole'.
Ryu is relevant because he's a good character too choose in CvS1, CvS2, ST, SFA2, SFA3, 3S but not in PF and MvC2. He's relevant because he's Capcom's SF icon.
You just live in a weird bizarro land but Ryu is usually a top tier character. I mean, its true for all of the games I listed-- thats over 10 years of dominance in SF games. Maybe people have more fun playing as Ken then Ryu where you live?
I never pick Ryu or Ken-- to boring IMO. Akuma is fun, has a lot more options and is just tricky guy. Sakura is just fun too. Ryu and Ken seem to be about the same 2-3 strategies and set-ups. BORING.
This is nice and all, but he's asking what makes him more viable than Ken. Other than being an icon, that is.
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 3366th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
|  "Re(1):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 10:42:
wtf
have you ever been in an arcade?
[edit]
i don't know a lot of technical jargon, but i have learned a lot from experience. Ryu's dragon punch always knocks down. i forgot which games exactly, but there's some where Ken's medium and/or fierce dragon punch just does damage, giving the opponent a chance to recover and fuck you up. same goes with the hurricane kick. after smacking the opponent in the face a couple of times with that multi-hit kick, i almost always land to get my ass destroyed
Satoshi Miwa's makes a great point. although the other characters change from game to game, Ryu's game is just about the same in each game. he's just someone safe and proven reliable that people can fall back on
people pick Ken because, i dunno. he has flames, i guess
quote:
2) Shoryuken - F,D,DF+P
What's a Shotokan w/o an uppercut? Always use the HP version
cause its high priority does not make it much of a risk.
lol
faqs are Helpful
[this message was edited by Juke Joint Jezebel on Tue 29 Mar 11:03] |
| Grahf 363th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(4):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 10:57:
For me, the differences between Ken and Ryu are almost negligible outside of SF3. One of the coolest things about SF3 is how they exaggerated the differences between these two characters (and Akuma, I guess). Ryu is way slower than Ken, but has way better damage and priority.
The perfect example of the difference between Ryu and Ken is how the hurricane kick is executed. Ken will combo a few weak hits together, while Ryu will hit you once for a lot of damage and knock you away. Both versions have their pros and cons. Sure it's easier to combo using Ken's kick, but with Ryu, even if you just catch the opponent with the tail end of the move you still do the same amount of damage as if you had caught them with the first hit (this is especially helpful if your opponent guesses wrong at when to stop parrying).
So basically, I find Ryu to be better against more defensive opponents since if you trade quick blows back and forth, you'll end up doing a lot more damage. If you're in an uber-offensive brawl, Ken probably has the upper hand since you can milk his combos for more damage.
Personally, I usually end up doing better with Ryu because I am very familiar with his timing and priority, so I can make up for his lack of speed. I'm also not much of a combo freak. Finally, all shotos are really good at linking into super moves, so why not do a Shin-Shoryuken rather than anything Ken has?
Regarding games other than SF3, as far as I can tell, Ken and Ryu contrast in the same ways, only to a much lower degree. In those cases, I feel pretty much the same way you seem to, so I almost always use Ken.
[this message was edited by Grahf on Tue 29 Mar 11:00] |
| Spoon 845th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(1):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 11:05
quote:
I know this is an odd question, but it seems to me that I mostly see ken players, in Cvs2, SFIICE, SFa2. Ken's multi-hit attacks are better, he's a little faster...why would people play ryu?
There must be some ryu players out there (I think I saw it in sano's sig?), so please explain to me why he's still a relevant character. That's not meant as an insult, I figure I must be missing something...
By and large, Ryu is picked out of one of three or so reasons: he's good, he's familiar/easy to play, he's not Ken.
CvS2: Ryu is picked a bunch. Not AS MUCH as Ken, but still a bunch. He's easy to use. He has a fireball super and knockdown fireballs. His hurricane kick is a useful super cancel in C. Mostly, he's picked for familiarity; he's not hard to play, even though he's not as good as Ken. I pick him when I'm bored of playing as Sagat.
SF2CE: Dunno.
SF2HF: Ryu is really, really good in this game. Yeah, Ken has touch of death combo, but Ryu's only "unfavourable" match... is what? Dhalsim?
SF2WW: Pick Guile. Screw the rest.
SF2AE: Pick WW Guile. Screw the rest.
SF2ST: Ryu is really good in this game. Ken and Ryu are tweaked so that Ryu has a substantially stronger fireball trap game, while Ken has weird crap. Ken is not better than Ryu here, but I don't know Ken well enough to say that he's worse than Ryu.
SFA2: You have a machine there? wtf. Ken and Ryu are both good. Ryu has very good and easy customs (at low meters, I think Ryu has much better customs), plus his hopkick is worth a damn.
SFA3: Ryu is significantly better than Ken in this game. Hopkick is worth a hella. This game's b+RH (close standing RH if not in Vism) is a normal Ryu will never get again, sadly.
3S: Ryu is picked BECAUSE he isn't Ken. People that get tired of playing Ken but still want shoto can play Ryu. Plus Ryu dishes out stun dmg like a mofo. Higher scrubs like Ryu for his Denjin, which is instant death against anybody who can't parry their way out. Also, Ryu has a kara throw that is worth something.
And that's pretty much how it goes around here, the way I see it.
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| Spoon 847th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(2):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 11:11:
quote:
[edit]
i don't know a lot of technical jargon, but i have learned a lot from experience. Ryu's dragon punch always knocks down.
2) Shoryuken - F,D,DF+P
What's a Shotokan w/o an uppercut? Always use the HP version
cause its high priority does not make it much of a risk.
lol
faqs are Helpful
Hooray for fighting game faqs written by people in isolation.
...which is why you do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what faqs tell you and use JAB DPs.
Outside of... like, WW, Ken's jab DP is always a knockdown! Good lord, have you seen the "psychic" jab DP whoring in CvS2 at arcades? It's disgusting. Throw it out on guess at poke range; if they poke you with ANYTHING that isn't invulnerable (e.g. RC stuff, supers, etc.), they take big damage from counter hit, plus you get off clean AND they get knocked down. Now, people wise up sooner or later (sooner if they can actually play), but if you land it a few times, it does wonders for ticking off your opponent.
And Ken's kara DP combo in 3S is stupid. The typical one looks like this:
d+FK xx jab DP, (kara) jab DP
You won't believe how much damage and stun it does. Jab DP is a knockdown in 3S, too! Important!
[this message was edited by Spoon on Tue 29 Mar 11:13] |
| CHAZumaru
78th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(1):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 12:27
quote:
I know this is an odd question, but it seems to me that I mostly see ken players, in Cvs2, SFIICE, SFa2. Ken's multi-hit attacks are better, he's a little faster...why would people play ryu?
There must be some ryu players out there (I think I saw it in sano's sig?), so please explain to me why he's still a relevant character. That's not meant as an insult, I figure I must be missing something...
I kicked your ass in 3S with Ryu once.
I only use him in 3S, actually. I try to learn Q, but my safe character is Ryu - after spending a little time on Gouki. 3S Ryu has good defence, slow pace, doesn't need a lot of combos and trades well. It's a question of feeling, really. I am more the kind of player who adapts to a character because I like him/her rather than finding a top tier and trying to win at all cost. Which can sound odd when talking about Ryu.
Yes, the original character is dull. Gameplay-wise, it sets the standard for fighters, but it lacks charisma. The outfit sucked. The colors sucked. The ending sucked. In the same category, Ken was more fun, more flamboyant (this is a pun). Ryu - whether in II, Zero or Vs. - is just a boring young guy, really.
Yet Ryu in 3S clicks.
In this game the persona, design and gameplay suit much more the older Ryu. He has always been the clumsy tateyaku of the SFII plot, Ken being the (more convincing) nimaime, but it never made sense until he actually had the age, experience and past necessary to be a valid tateyaku. I also really like what they did to make him feel older. The subtle hints. The raw haircut, the casual gi. No SNK fashion contest. And his colors are mostly good. I am addicted to the Start+LP+MK+HP hidden color, personally. Only a slight alteration of the original, yet it gives such a subtle and different taste. Well yeah, "subtle" is the adjective that keeps coming to me. When talking about subtle food, japanese people have a special term for that feeling, which I forgot, but I remember a friend from the countryside once describing it as something close to 壊れやすく旨い (?). I don't know if you understand what I am talking about. It's for stuff like tofu.
You get this big chunk of tofu bought at Kyoko next to Passage Choiseul in the 2nd arrondissement. The red one of course, because it's firmer and more versatile than the blue one. Anyone who taste tofu for the first time might not grasp it's delicacy yet - it's understandable. They might think it's just a white tasteless jellything. It has more than that though. It's not necessary. It's not blatant. It's just there, needing you to add some of your own to the whole experience. It might simply mean picking the right soy sauce. It might also mean eating the right food before in order to set your palate in the right conditions. Or it might mean emptying your brain and learning to fully focus on what you're eating for once in your life. But it's nothing necessary. You can just look at it as blunt or tasteless, or you can put some effort into it. A matter of choice and priorites in your life.
Same with Ryu. It implies a peculiar approach. With the matter of SAs for example. The Denjin is dangerous, the SAI is more versatile and allows many cheap tactics, yet I can't fathom Ryu with anything else than his SAII. It's how it was intended. There is some poetry in the way the ShinShoryuken is performed, the way it can be brought up, the way it connects with a following joudan... There's no bling bling, no style, no metrosexuality. But it's convincing - and I am not only talking about the fact it takes away 60% of your power bar. There are those hints with Ryu that it might somehow go further with him than you'd think at first, when you scratch a little beyond the surface. I like that about him. I feel... somehow close to that aspect of his character.
That's why I play him, in case it answers your question. 3S Ryu worthed the wait and all these boring Ryus before him.
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| EddyT 461th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(3):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Tue 29 Mar 17:15:
quote:
From what I've seen in the arcade, 3s Ryu's SA3 (the unblockable hadou-ken) is pretty good. Basically, people sweep, and then begin charging just out of wakeup attack range, and then blow this load in the opponents face as soon as they stand up. If you don't be obvious about the exact timing of when you release it, it is difficult to parry. The move is unblockable, and from what I've seen it also STUNS most of the time.
So basically, every time Ryu gets an SA3 bar filled, he gets a free super + stun. That's pretty good if you ask me.
That's a lot better deal than Ken gets with his SA3 "do a flamingo pose in front of your opponent for 10 years if blocked" super
That move is pretty much guaranteed, though... when you link with a normal, like a low forward. Also, it is pretty powerful and Ken can store 3 of them, which gives him many chances to use EX moves AND having a super bar to spare. Ryu's Denjin-Hadoken is a hard-to-counter move, but the fact he can only store one and the bar is a lot longer than Ken's... it doesn't put Ryu in a great situation. Also, with Ken's low forward kick, he beats out Ryu's range and keeps him at bay. Besides hitting that move with a well-timed Shoryuken, it's hard to avoid getting hit with that move half the time. Even parrying it is difficult, because Ken doesn't have much recovery time when doing the move.
Ryu's much more fun to play than Ken, IMO. I love using Denjin and using the EX heel kick to juggle opponents. Definitely his most evolved version out of all the SFs out there.
[this message was edited by EddyT on Tue 29 Mar 17:20] |
| exodus 2482th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Wed 30 Mar 03:16
quote:
This is nice and all, but he's asking what makes him more viable than Ken. Other than being an icon, that is.
Thanks polly :D
EddyT: yeah, I was thinking about his super hurricane kick as one of the better ones...and good point on the custom combo for SFa2. But then - SFa2 is one of the most balanced capcom fighters ever, so it makes sense there...
jjj: no, people play ken for the reasons I mentioned, I think. I also test ryu for the consistancy thing, but I don't actually play with him. I do know that people play him in competitions sometimes, I just don't know why yet.
Dragon-warrior: I use C or S...so that could explain a bit.
Chaz: I see what you are saying, and that makes sense for more sensetive players, but I tend to find that it's mostly the 'gonna kick your ass' guys who use Ryu - and yes you kicked my ass in SF3, but my little sister could do that, I just can't play that game for shit. I think like Tristan or somebody even beat me.
I see Grahf and Spoon's points about the priority and knockdowns though, as well as the strength of his hits. In a way, perhaps you could say he's the haohmaru of the SF universe? Strong hits, a bit slower, maybe more tactical, slightly less aggressive in some ways, but more aggressive in others (ie sheer power).
I can see it looking at it that way. I think I'll play some more CvS 2 this week (maybe on S groove) and see how it feels.
--
Thanks everyone! I think I understand it a bit better. Ken will probably remain my favorite shoto (though I love sakura too), but I think I have a grasp of ryu's strengths. Basically, it's a different play mechanic than I usually use - I'm very tap-heavy when I play, lots of lights, then strongs, with little midrange. This makes a lot of sense for Ken's playstyle, but with Ryu, it seems like one should concentrate more on the middle and high, which is a totally different aesthetic than my usual style of play. It was interesting to hear everyone's opinions on this - proof positive that the mmc is still my favorite board!
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| Nana!
0th Post
New Customer
| "Re(5):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Wed 30 Mar 17:05
Had to outright start an account so I could comment on this.
Albeit a solid character, Ryu hasn't been honest top tier since the days of alpha 3 and ST. Watch any vid of Daigo Umehara's Ryu in ST and you will see that he is a monster. Dp invincibility + guage building, an artificial dash through f.SP, and a proper fb lock down game.
V-Ism Ryu was top, along with V Rolento, Akuma, Dhal. Ugly horrible V combos involving proper footsies and then the fram invincibility you get off of activation in V.
3rd Strike Ryu isn't top, but solid fun. The whole "sweep x Denjin hadoken" is old news, people stay away from it because it is a waste of the single guage they offer you with that super. Use super art 1, and mix up EX moves. His EX FB is safe on block and cr.MK x EX FB is BnB. Also, Ken is top in 3S, because he has the tools to beat you in most situations. Ever pay attention to 3S? Alot of Ken, Chun, and Yun..but mostly Ken. And I consider shinshoryuken honest eye candy, but tough to land seriously, unless you fight dudley and abuse the otg glitch.
After people stopped only using A in CVS2, many came to realize stuff like C Ryu and C Guile were dominant. They get all the options they need defensively and lovely dmg off of lvl 2 super canceling and advanced links.
Most other games Ryu doesn't hold his own too well haha. But who cares. I like him, and he screams "wompin' time" in the same fashion characters like Takuma Sakazaki does in KoF. But don't think me boring, I play alot of characters haha.
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| EddyT 463th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(6):so - does anyone actually play ryu?" , posted Thu 31 Mar 13:47
quote:
Had to outright start an account so I could comment on this.
Albeit a solid character, Ryu hasn't been honest top tier since the days of alpha 3 and ST. Watch any vid of Daigo Umehara's Ryu in ST and you will see that he is a monster. Dp invincibility + guage building, an artificial dash through f.SP, and a proper fb lock down game.
V-Ism Ryu was top, along with V Rolento, Akuma, Dhal. Ugly horrible V combos involving proper footsies and then the fram invincibility you get off of activation in V.
3rd Strike Ryu isn't top, but solid fun. The whole "sweep x Denjin hadoken" is old news, people stay away from it because it is a waste of the single guage they offer you with that super. Use super art 1, and mix up EX moves. His EX FB is safe on block and cr.MK x EX FB is BnB. Also, Ken is top in 3S, because he has the tools to beat you in most situations. Ever pay attention to 3S? Alot of Ken, Chun, and Yun..but mostly Ken. And I consider shinshoryuken honest eye candy, but tough to land seriously, unless you fight dudley and abuse the otg glitch.
After people stopped only using A in CVS2, many came to realize stuff like C Ryu and C Guile were dominant. They get all the options they need defensively and lovely dmg off of lvl 2 super canceling and advanced links.
Most other games Ryu doesn't hold his own too well haha. But who cares. I like him, and he screams "wompin' time" in the same fashion characters like Takuma Sakazaki does in KoF. But don't think me boring, I play alot of characters haha.
What you say is very true. Ryu still can scare people if used correctly, but he doesn't have the cheap high-priority, low-risk moves that other SF characters have received. Which is the way it should be with Ryu.
V-Ryu was crazy... I remember people explaining to me how he had a V-combo for almost every situation... close-in, jump-in, anti-air... you name it.
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