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| Iggy 6679th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
     
     
     
     
|  "Re(3):Games of the week : Killer7, Kenka, Met" , posted Wed 8 Jun 19:11
Kenka Banchô
It's made by Spike (Samurai Dô, Samurai Western) and it's exactly like the other games, except the characters are those funny japanese gangsta from the last century.
The universe of the game is extremely funny, but I haven't had the time to play it much. It's... I don't know... GTA in Japan, with a low budget and a lot of low level humour ? I kinda like it.
Killer 7 is....
It's the most bizarre game I've seen in a while, and you know how I like bizarre games.
The system of running with ○ is extremely weird, and even with that, there is some back tracking, it's.... I don't know, it's weird. But not in a bad way. I'll have to play a bit more, but at least the graphic presentation is great. Fun thing is that so far, it feels less like a corridor than FFX did.
The problem I have is that everything is spoken in babelfish english. Thank god, it's subtitled in japanese, but the japanese is also weird. Listening to broken english and reading broken japanese at the same time is not easy. Suda doesn't want me to understand anything, and I think he's going to win... But that won't prevent me from liking the game. I think.
It comes with a nice DVD video. I don't know if this is a surprise LE like my Kenka banchô, but it's still nice.
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
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| NARUTO 3085th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Games of the week : Killer7, Kenka, Met" , posted Wed 8 Jun 19:27
quote:
Killer 7 is....
It's the most bizarre game I've seen in a while, and you know how I like bizarre games.
The system of running with ○ is extremely weird, and even with that, there is some back tracking, it's.... I don't know, it's weird. But not in a bad way. I'll have to play a bit more, but at least the graphic presentation is great. Fun thing is that so far, it feels less like a corridor than FFX did.
The problem I have is that everything is spoken in babelfish english. Thank god, it's subtitled in japanese, but the japanese is also weird. Listening to broken english and reading broken japanese at the same time is not easy. Suda doesn't want me to understand anything, and I think he's going to win... But that won't prevent me from liking the game. I think.
It comes with a nice DVD video. I don't know if this is a surprise LE like my Kenka banchô, but it's still nice.
Wierd...Some kind of "alien game" like katamari was??
and one question what you need to do exactly in Killer 7??
We are all mad at some point....
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| Iggy 6706th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Dub question" , posted Sat 11 Jun 16:58
I have a question for people who don't understand japanese.
I think the dub in Killer 7 is quite good (only Herman is off) and the text is, I guess, easily understandable even if it doesn't always mean what's written under it.
But for the ghost characters (Iwazaru, Travis, etc), who have been bablefished and are voiced by a program, it's completely different. I can make abstraction of what they say and just read first, then try to understand what they say before they jump to the next line, but without the japanese subtitles, can an english speaker understand anything ? There are quite a lot of engrish that will make all the fans of the genre happy, but I'm not sure the original jokes are transposed (like, when Iwazaru says how the 3rd scenario is too kimoi, that he can't stand the afro and he won't help you against this guy, because he doesn't want to come close to those hair. I like the concept of Afro shinsha).
Also, it must be tiring after a while.
The 3rd scenario is absolutely awesome (their power is to wear a wide T shirt. that's it.)
Also, the fact the lucha wrestler with his two small bazooka has the voice of a teenager is plain too funny.
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
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| burning kyo 2325th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(1):Dub question" , posted Sat 11 Jun 17:18
quote:
I have a question for people who don't understand japanese.
I think the dub in Killer 7 is quite good (only Herman is off) and the text is, I guess, easily understandable even if it doesn't always mean what's written under it.
But for the ghost characters (Iwazaru, Travis, etc), who have been bablefished and are voiced by a program, it's completely different. I can make abstraction of what they say and just read first, then try to understand what they say before they jump to the next line, but without the japanese subtitles, can an english speaker understand anything ? There are quite a lot of engrish that will make all the fans of the genre happy, but I'm not sure the original jokes are transposed (like, when Iwazaru says how the 3rd scenario is too kimoi, that he can't stand the afro and he won't help you against this guy, because he doesn't want to come close to those hair. I like the concept of Afro shinsha).
Also, it must be tiring after a while.
The 3rd scenario is absolutely awesome (their power is to wear a wide T shirt. that's it.)
Also, the fact the lucha wrestler with his two small bazooka has the voice of a teenager is plain too funny.
Not everything ...
I don't really care about Travis or Iwazaru, because I believe to guess they only talk about shit.
But IMO it's pretty annoying with Keith who give you some advices against the boss or some new monsters.
For example, I've been jammed a moment by the Phantom Smile the 1st time, because I don't know how to kill him without dying with him. I've should guess that I must use the "counterattack" ability.
An another annoying thing is the "how to use" an ability is totally in japanese.
PS : Aide-moi ! T_T
Je suis bloqué contre les 2 hommes ss têtes.
J'ai remarqué qu'en tirant sur celui de droite, ça lui faisait sauté sa cravate et que son pote la lui remettait correctement et ts, mais chui po vraiment sûr que ça lui fasse des dégats ...
[welcome to the devil's nest]
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| Iggy 6708th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Dub question" , posted Sat 11 Jun 17:22
quote:
I've should guess that I must use the "counterattack" ability.
Actually, you have to shot the oversized part of their bodies (the arm, the head)
As for the bosses of the second level, shoot the necktie, then the one on the left will put it back, and you will be able to shoot his brain.
When the left one is gone, as you shoot the flying brains, the remaining guy will sometimes duck, allowing you to shoot his brain.
Use Kaede, of course.
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
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| burning kyo 2327th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Dub question" , posted Sat 11 Jun 21:31:
quote:
Actually, you have to shot the oversized part of their bodies (the arm, the head)
As for the bosses of the second level, shoot the necktie, then the one on the left will put it back, and you will be able to shoot his brain.
When the left one is gone, as you shoot the flying brains, the remaining guy will sometimes duck, allowing you to shoot his brain.
Use Kaede, of course.
Thank you very much for your help !
Man, the headless guy with the necktie was still a pure pain even when his friend was died.
It was so hard to hit correctly his brain because the hitbox was so small.
PS : Merde ... Chui encore bloqué ... ^_^'
Mais cette fois, c'est à cause de la porte à mot de passe dans la 3e mission : J'ai visité entièrement la partie gauche de la carte pour buter des monstres et récup' des objets (comme par exemple l'objet du pot fleur qui se débloque grâce à la bague de l'eau et qui sert sur la porte à code), mais j'ai rien vu qui pourrait m'indiquer un quelconque mot de passe.
Tu crois que j'ai manqué quelque chose ?
C'est quoi le mot de passe de cette porte ?
[welcome to the devil's nest]
[this message was edited by burning kyo on Sat 11 Jun 22:13] |
| Spoon 1137th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Re:Killer Bump" , posted Sun 17 Jul 06:26
quote:
Now that I'm nearly finished with Killer 7 I'm struck by how successful the game is at upending the commonly held perception of what makes a good game. Gameplay is often held up to be the primary focus of what a game should offer. Poor presentation, recycled sprites or whatever can be forgiven as long as it plays well. For K7 the gameplay could a best be described as servicable
Actually, this was disproven long ago, and in more recent memory, Doom 3 upheld that disproval.
It has also been demonstrated that poor graphics/presentation really CAN kill games.
Similarly, superb audio is something that seldom sticks out as a buying point for a game... so much so that from time to time we actually get reminded of this, rather than having it as a constant point in our mind (like graphics, for example).
quote:
but this is probably the most enjoyable game I've played in 2005.
I'm at part 2 of the fifth chapter, but it doesn't beat Cave Story (in english!!!!)... yet...
quote:
I don't think this is a case of style over substance, rather it seems as if K7 is a reminder that there is more than one way for a game to be entertaining.
You forget, style IS a substance.
I remember long ago that in the genre of "adventure" (which is nowadays known as "point-and-click adventure"), there were more than a few attempts at making action an integrated part of the game. Pretty much all such attempts to my memory were not very good, since all such sequences inevitably felt very canned; chalk it up to people trying to make action games who don't make action games.
I do agree that Killer7 is a good... experience, though, whatever that means.
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| Spoon 1138th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Killer Bump" , posted Sun 17 Jul 14:36
quote:
I can say only one thing : wait until the final scenes.
The scenario is... wow. I was prepared for it, and even knowing it was written by Suda 51, it's... wow.
I've gone and finished Killer7, and I'm not quite sure just how impressed I am with the story.
Discussion to follow:
No judgement will be made on whether the story is "good" or "bad", because that invariably degenerates into random idiocy.
Iggy likes the word "scenario", and it seems to carry a lot of additional meanings when he uses it. It sounds weird to me, his use of that word; like english that isn't quite right.
I do assume that the "scenario" is thought out, and is not just a hack mishmash of racy-seeming stuff.
We will also forgo the "it's all just Suda's dream about Japan/US relations while he lies in his room passed out from alcohol" scenario. Let's have a little more respect for this game than that.
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Some tricks of the head played in while I was going through the story. For one, for some reason, I got it in my head after the first or second Carrier Pigeon that Emir was Garcian... I don't really know what this notion was based on, but I went through the whole game on this belief. So when Garcian "discovered" that he was Emir, I was actually surprised that that was supposed to be a surprise...
One of the disorienting aspects of the storytelling comes from the cutscenes where the Killer7 aren't personally present; these come across as being real, but their connection with Garcian's hallucinating is odd. Take the scene where Matsuken kills the two senior guys. Lan Kun shows up and has a chat with him. The senior guys come back to life/disappear from the room. The killer7 later show up and "fight" the senior guys, and their ghosts are apparent to Garcian. So what the heck actually happened, apart from Matsuken killing them?
What was the deal with Curtis and Dan, if Dan was actually killed by Emir? If the only point of it was to have Travis go on about "do you REALLY know what happened?" since Dan was actually killed by Emir and this is merely a fabrication, it's meaningless-seeming one.
There's a scene in the latter half of the game where you see a guy in bondage gear like Iwazaru go off an overpass and die. I suppose that that is Iwazaru. But the person next to him looked like Matsuken? Maybe my memory is bad and he really is just young Harman.
I didn't expect the story to be so centered around "politics"... and I don't think that having all that there made the story better. I had it in my head that the story would be centered around Harman/Killer7 and Kun Lan, and to an extent it is... but just to an extent. The exposition is not centered around the two, even though they're made out to be the major figures at the very end. I dunno. It makes sense after a bit that some of the characters don't get fleshed out, since Emir probably never really knew them. For some of them, he's probably just making up what they might be like... hey, they're probably pretty angry about being dead. But it still seems like there's things that could've been told that weren't. It's one thing to contain depth that readers can gradually surmise. It's another thing to leave a lot of blanks, which masquerade as depth in the form of "mysteries".
What's your take on the actual timeline of events?
What's the deal with Samantha?
Supposing that Iwazaru was a real person killed by Harman (going by that cutscene), what is the purpose of Kun Lan dressing as Iwazaru at the end? Yeah yeah I could draw this and that about how the one giving you all the leading advice and leading you through the conflict is actually Kun Lan, and Kun Lan and Harman are in a pseudo-conspiracy together anyway, but that seems pretty half-baked. It is a fun thing to mess with your head about how the last smile is Iwazaru, I guess.
Is there some cultural/religious symbol I'm missing with the third eye on Emir?
I got distracted by something while younger Harman was explicating to Garcian in the Hotel, and then I accidentally saved over it... what exactly did he say about Garcian?
So did Emir kill himself or not on the rooftop of the Union Hotel? It seems that he did... but then, how could Garcian be alive to deal with Matsuken at the end if he did?
I wrote too many questions. I think I'm too tired to be able to remember details right now, and that's why.
End of Spoiler
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| Iggy 6881th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Killer Bump" , posted Sun 17 Jul 18:29
quote:
Iggy likes the word "scenario", and it seems to carry a lot of additional meanings when he uses it. It sounds weird to me, his use of that word; like english that isn't quite right.
It's what I explained about the "settei" in that other thread... I have yet to find a word that can express exactly everything settei means.
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
What was the deal with Curtis and Dan, if Dan was actually killed by Emir? If the only point of it was to have Travis go on about "do you REALLY know what happened?" since Dan was actually killed by Emir and this is merely a fabrication, it's meaningless-seeming one.
I can't explain it without a huge loophole. I saw it coming, and that's why I think we can say the option of Suda too high to care for anything is not to be forgotten.
As the game is, and until the short stories in the guide eventually explain that, Dan has been killed twice. That's it.
There's a scene in the latter half of the game where you see a guy in bondage gear like Iwazaru go off an overpass and die. I suppose that that is Iwazaru. But the person next to him looked like Matsuken?
It was Matsuken, and Kun Lan in Iwazaru's gear.
What's the deal with Samantha?
She's just awesome. That's pretty much all there is. And Suzie is great as well.
Supposing that Iwazaru was a real person killed by Harman (going by that cutscene), what is the purpose of Kun Lan dressing as Iwazaru at the end?
I think Kun Lan WAS Iwazaru from the beginning. Whatever Harmann and Kun Lan are, they are not human, I guess some immortal entities close to mythological beings. I think Emir has just been swallowed in their never ending struggle.
But since they keep killing each other, there is nothing wrong in Kun Lan being here as Iwazaru's ghost and alive creating heaven smiles at the same time.
Is there some cultural/religious symbol I'm missing with the third eye on Emir?
I think the "third eye that allows to see everything far away" exists in several cultures ? The... In french, "les grées" for example.
So did Emir kill himself or not on the rooftop of the Union Hotel? It seems that he did... but then, how could Garcian be alive to deal with Matsuken at the end if he did?
I think he just shot the third eye, and indeed he doesn't have it in the last section of the game.
End of Spoiler
But keep in mind I haven't read anything related to Killer 7, no 2ch thread, guide or interviews. So, if someone has...
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
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| Spoon 1140th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(4):Killer Bump" , posted Sun 17 Jul 19:56
quote:
It's what I explained about the "settei" in that other thread... I have yet to find a word that can express exactly everything settei means.
From a book I have lying around:
The back-story is a fictional and someimes factual history of the alternate universe you are creating ... It's used to develop the rules and logic of the world ... The back-story establishes the environment and physical nature of the world and its inhabitants and reveals the nature of their relationships and interactions. Even though the audience might never read the back-story, it will exist in everything they see ... sometimes the back-story, the inspirational art, storyboards, and pre-production art are called the Story Bible or Character Bible.
Wikipedia says: "Back-story... is the history behind the situation extant at the start of the main story."
While I dislike the sound of the phrase "back-story", in literary terms it is by far the closest thing I can imagine to "settei".
quote:
But keep in mind I haven't read anything related to Killer 7, no 2ch thread, guide or interviews. So, if someone has...
In games which are so dependant on story like killer7, it's extremely bothersome to me if the story isn't told within the thing itself; all else outside may as well be BS that can be made up after the fact.
quote:
Suzie
Susie (in NA ver) is funky.
Samantha was cool...
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
... but I don't get what the point of her was, especially when she died and got replaced by the butler.
End of Spoiler
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| Mosquiton 1659th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(3):Killer Bump" , posted Mon 18 Jul 05:32
quote:
I've gone and finished Killer7, and I'm not quite sure just how impressed I am with the story...
At this point I don't really have the time and energy to get into a big discussion but I might be able to help you on one or two points.
quote:
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Is there some cultural/religious symbol I'm missing with the third eye on Emir?
So did Emir kill himself or not on the rooftop of the Union Hotel? It seems that he did... but then, how could Garcian be alive to deal with Matsuken at the end if he did?
End of Spoiler
Now, about
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
the third-eye. I think this is pretty obviously symbolic, although the outside perspective (I believe it's Hindu philosophy: clarivoyance) isn't necessary to understand it.
There's something important to notice when Garcian opens the safe in the school. I'm assuming you know what's inside the safe. Now keep in mind what happens on the rooftop...
I'd say that we saw Garcian kill himself. Emir on the other hand was reborn. So, just to be clear, no physical death here.
About Dan and Curtis, I'm still puzzling on that one... without checking back for reference I'm thinking that Curtis shot Dan and left him for dead, which meant Dan lived to be killed later by Emir.
I can't say I'm totally clear on the entire story, but I do think the depth was real and not simulated.
End of Spoiler
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| Spoon 1150th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(8):Killer Bump" , posted Mon 18 Jul 09:26:
quote:
Oh one other thing:
in the JP version, is practically everything you pick up other than the Rings and the Memos named "an odd engraving"?
Yes, I found it quite funny (better than the object that are supposed to make sense when they clearly don't in BH).
As for the red kanji, it's the kanji for "killing". The interesting thing is that it is often used for homophonic (?) verbs, quite common in japanese (if only, yaru - to do as well as to kill).
Of course, it's untranslatable.
English contains homonyms and homophones... italicizing homonyms is a pretty old way of visually indicating suggestiveness... but are the kanji the same?
If the kanji aren't the same and it's just the sound, then yes, that's a homophone. How well either homonym or homophone translates... well, that varies.
It actually ironically translates in the example of yaru... like... say, a line from Lord of the Flies: "Well? Do you see? We'll do you, see?"
In some cases you can convert the homophone to a homonym (somewhat), or other such translation trickery.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Mon 18 Jul 13:42] |
| Ishmael 2100th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Killer Bump" , posted Mon 18 Jul 22:37
My quick, disorganized reflections upon finishing the game:
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Funny, my first guess early in the game ws that K7 was taking place in Heaven and Garican was God. The actual ending was less cosmic -at least, I think it was- but Mosquiton is right, the game clues you in fairly early on that there's more going on than what's stated up front. Sorting out just what is going on, however, isn't the easiest trick in the world since it's hard to tell what is Garcian's imagination, what is a product of the alternate world the game is set in, and what was weird for the sake of being weird. I think the game's ending is supposed to be ambiguous and left open to interpretation but here's my thoughts on the matter and the many deaths of Dan.
Dan managed to die twice because:
1. The first scenerio was an invention of Garcian. As far as I can tell the fantasy world of Garcian didn't start breaking down until the deaths of Christopher and Samantha so perhaps Garcian might have been going through the trouble of inventing back stories for his alternate personalities. Or perhaps it was a sign that he was trying to compensate for reality by trying to explain away Dan's death by being at the hands of someone else.
The problem I have with this theory is that it means you can eliminate parts of the plot at random on the basis that it was all a delusion, making K7 a shaggy dog video game.
2.The Killer 7 are also independent of Garcian. While the game story may be Garcian's tale it isn't the full story of Killer 7. The "100 years later" epilogue suggests that there is more to the story than just a bit of delusion. If there can be several Harmans and Kun Lans running around why couldn't there be more than one incarnation of the other major players?
3.Garcian's condition is not unique. This is a possible interpretation of the battle against the Power Rangers. Perhaps Garcian isn't the only one dreaming the Killer 7 into existence.
Now that I think about it the epilogue and the Power Rangers could be more metaphorical, suggesting that people use stories and their imagination in order to contextualize and understand the world around them. Or maybe not. Come to think of it, was Harman Smith also William Howard Taft or something? Was the shot of the former President that looked like Harman a sign that Garcian's conditioning and problems had caused him to jumble together things at random or another sign that this conflict is larger in scope than Garcian's story? Gah, I should have been taking notes during the game.
Hmm, if the game does have more to it than just Garcian's issues there could easily be a sequel. Please Capcom, please be crazy enough to make a follow up to this game!
End of Spoiler
Anyway, I really dug the game. As a side note, I feel sorry for those poor suckers at X-Plus Co. who signed up to produce K7 toys and comics. Looking at the franchises that Capcom has produced in the past I'm sure they must have thought they were getting a sweet deal to get in at the start of a new series. Instead Capcom brings out a game like this. Somehow I don't see K7 taking off to become the next Resident Evil.
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| Iggy 6891th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Killer Bump" , posted Mon 18 Jul 22:56
quote:
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
2.The Killer 7 are also independent of Garcian. While the game story may be Garcian's tale it isn't the full story of Killer 7. The "100 years later" epilogue suggests that there is more to the story than just a bit of delusion. If there can be several Harmans and Kun Lans running around why couldn't there be more than one incarnation of the other major players?
End of Spoiler
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
I do think the Killer 7 and Garcian are independant. I think Garcian, as well as the Killer 7 before their death (even though some of them, like Kevin, don't appear to be killers at all) have been swallowed by Harman who is the real hero of the game. His existence, and his goal, haven't been explained totally, but they are the secondary focus of the game.
Garcian is merely manipulated by Harman and Kun Lan as an actor in their battle. It's like Kun Lan has the Heaven's smiles, and Harmann has those 7 guys - THIS TIME. Maybe the struggle of the "100 years later" in Singapore will be fought with entirely different monsters / personalities.
The game has been said to have wide openings for sequels and spinoffs by Suda 51. Therefore, if the stories of the 7 guys (the 6 personalities you play as + Garcian/Emir) has been told in this game, I think the real heroes (Harman/Kun Lan) are supposed to continue their struggle in an eventual sequel.
Ah, I know how to say it clearly : it's like Garcian was the hero of this particular game, but Harmann/Kun Lan are supposed to be the main characters of the whole series.
But again, what do I know. Especially since I pretty much doubt the game will ever have a sequel.
End of Spoiler
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
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and I know this
