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| Maou 676th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member
  
    
    
|  "Re(1):The new fighting game discussion thread" , posted Fri 10 Jun 14:47
Spoon-tastic, a new fighting thread after our Super EX + Alpha intro thread. So yeah, Spoon, while I have your attention, won't ye lend an ear to my plight with SFIII 3rd Strike:
My "master" in fighting games and I played a LOT of Zero2 and Zero3. The problem is that I'm used to that pace (and that large character roster), and while we're entranced by 3S's beautiful art and complicated systems, we keep failing to break into it and get good...when we do play, we do gutless things like play our old Ryu vs. Ken matches with nothing new. In short, despite being solid in the Zero series, we have no grounding in 3S and don't know where to start. Gamest's guides are out of print, no one else we know plays 3S, and on the American side no good guides were made either (i.e. of the very high calibur Versus Books SFZero2 guide by the US's best players). Not that I need an idiot's move guide telling me what cancels etc. to do, but I was wondering if you can think of a good resource that could help ground us in the basic flow of SFIII as differentiated from the Zero series? I know it's fantastic, I just need to find how to appreciate it.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Spoon 1062th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
 
| "Re(4):The new fighting game discussion thread" , posted Fri 10 Jun 16:26
quote:
Iiiinteresting, and you're talking about the one by Brady? I was less than impressed with those guys back in the day, but it sounds like they've cleaned up their act for this book? Strangely, a place like Shoryuken.com ought to have some stuff on this too, but I don't see the FAQs I thought I'd find (maybe they're too advanced).
Yes, the Brady one was written with input from the good players at SRK, so it contains valid combos and strats. However, it feels like a lot of the strategy/matchup info had to be shortened due to publication constraints... which is really too bad.
If you check SRK's "Articles" section, you'll find two somewhat outdated and in places factually incorrect articles on Kara Throwing and Option Select. The option select thing you are NOT going to be able to use in games if you are just getting into 3S. However, it shows one of the more advanced techniques that you can do in 3S, and highlights the importance of good ground game psychology (or maybe just the importance of guessing right...) in 3S. Kara throw you might use, since it's just a tiny add-on to how you normally do throws... though in the beginning you're probably going to screw up and get lots of random attacks when you really want the throw :)
SRK has a very high noise to signal ratio. Unless you have lots of time on your hands or know exactly what to search for, you can easily get a lot of misinformation.
Actual strategy (OMG!) from SRK link:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mopreme/
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| Time Mage 2160th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
   
| "Re(1):The new fighting game discussion thread" , posted Fri 10 Jun 17:41
Well, regarding this
quote:
Well, knowledge counts for nothing if you lack the ability to apply it when it's needed.
It's not that I lack completely of any skill. Only that I can't pull most things 99% of the time, as you said is needed (and I disagree). If I try to use a certain strategy I've learned, it is because I can somewhat do it usefuly. It's not knowledge alone. It's knowledge + a little (but not null) skill, heh.
About Third Strike, my characters are Remy and Makoto. I'm fairly good with both, but I prefer using Remy, because I've always liked (and played) charge characters better. I'm surprisingly good at managing and storing charges, and I were surprised when I read online some of the advanced charge techniques, and discovered that I already used them long ago. I suppose that, since my reflexes are not that good, being able to pull a move by either pushing up + button or forward + button helps me a lot, and that's why I like charge characters.
Anyway, using Remy is even more painful than using Q, in my opinion. Q at least can resist hits. It's really depressing to be controlling a fight, keeping my opponent in range with LoVs, and the occasional combo from jHP, cHP, or cMP, and then be destroyed by literally two combos. My friend, who uses Ryu, has that ugly tendency, and it's not funny at all. And i'm not going to even mention his ridiculous stun gauge.
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| Time Mage 2161th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):The new fighting game discussion thread" , posted Fri 10 Jun 20:07
quote:
Also, speaking of Remy : what's the use of his 214 kick move ? It's a little too slow to take the opponent by surprise, and jumping close is not something Remy would want to do ? I think ?
(but I'm a Hugo/Alex/Q low level player, so what do I know).
You can use it in various situations. Against players that can't parry well, just throw random high and low LoVs from a distance, and when they decide to jump over the LoVs, you nail them with a 214HK. A Blocked 214K is also surprisingly safe. Surprising, in the sense that if they don't know the recovery of the move, they may try to punish you with something too slow, eating the RRF ([2]8K) or SRRF (236236K) you do immediately afterwards. Also, using the right button for the right distance to hit only with the tip of the shoe makes for a good poke to throw from time to time. The LK version is also a great wakeup against those who like to throw or attack low, since it's airborne for a brief moment, and it's fast enough to be safe if they block. And, since it's an airborne move, if they hit you with something else, you get usually knocked away instead of being set up for a possible combo. The EX version also has its uses, but I guess you only wanted an idea, and I've already written too much for that.
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| ZamIAm 1535th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Guide" , posted Fri 10 Jun 22:39
Cool to see someone else using Elena (especially since I sorta suck).
quote:
Also, speaking of Remy : what's the use of his 214 kick move ? It's a little too slow to take the opponent by surprise, and jumping close is not something Remy would want to do ? I think ?
(but I'm a Hugo/Alex/Q low level player, so what do I know).
You can use it in various situations. Against players that can't parry well, just throw random high and low LoVs from a distance, and when they decide to jump over the LoVs, you nail them with a 214HK. A Blocked 214K is also surprisingly safe. Surprising, in the sense that if they don't know the recovery of the move, they may try to punish you with something too slow, eating the RRF ([2]8K) or SRRF (236236K) you do immediately afterwards. Also, using the right button for the right distance to hit only with the tip of the shoe makes for a good poke to throw from time to time. The LK version is also a great wakeup against those who like to throw or attack low, since it's airborne for a brief moment, and it's fast enough to be safe if they block. And, since it's an airborne move, if they hit you with something else, you get usually knocked away instead of being set up for a possible combo. The EX version also has its uses, but I guess you only wanted an idea, and I've already written too much for that.
Yeah, with a good player/cheap computer the Cold Blue Kick is relatively frightening if your skills against them are only average. The SF Anniversary guide is great--I plan on buying it when I get the money (even though I own the DC version). The CFE guide is actually moderately good from my brief browsing of it. CFE...heh.
Must. Not. Start. CFAS. Discussion...
They're outsourcing Elmo and putting Cookie Monster on a diet...WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?!?
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| Time Mage 2162th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):The new fighting game discussion thread" , posted Sat 11 Jun 00:23
I'm not the best Oro player in the world, but what I'm going to say is really effective for those who use him sparingly, like me:
- Standing HK is so wonderful that it can't be described with words, but I'll try: Great range, priority and speed, plus it does a ton of stun damage.
- close standing MP is what you want to hit your opponent with. It can be followed by things as simple as a s.HK for starters, but if you practice it, s.MPxx236K,sMPxx236K,sMPxxEX Tengu Stone is the way to go. The button in the 236K varies depending on which character are you fighting against, so practice it. IIRC, you have to use 236MK against the shotos.
- Use the double jump for mindgames, but don't abuse it.
- Far MP is also a good poke.
I really don't go further than that, but I manage to fare decently with those things and mixing other moves here and there.
I wish I could buy one of those guides you're talking about... Looking everything on the internet is quite bothersome at times. Does it has frame data? I suppose not, but it would be great.
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| Pollyanna 1170th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Yun vs Yang" , posted Sat 11 Jun 06:46:
Does anyone here use Yun and Yang well? I say both, because I use both...or at least, I used to. I found after a while that Yun was useless in comparison to Yang, but I keep seeing people say the opposite. I feel like Yun's "advantages" don't amount to anything in the end.
Like, Yun's QCF+P is fast and has good range, but is way too easy to counter, even in its jab form. It's handy to throw it out after a jab, but the move just isn't safe enough. You can get thrown easily even after the jab version.
Yang's QCF+P move, on the other hand, is completely safe if you use the weak version and cut out early (assuming you miss). It does cheese damage on top of that, and can be comboed from his (completely safe) low middle kick.
The middle kick is awesome for both of them (I've won entire matches with just middle kick...for fun), but I feel like it invalidates Yun's anti-air kick. In fact, I've never found a use for it in a match. Yang's anti-air/roll kick, however, is nice for going under projectiles at least.
That leaves Yun's F,d,df+P move, which is a great projectile counter and combo add-on, but that's it as far as I can tell.
I won't mention the QCB+P move (though Yang's is better) or the command throw...and we all know that Yang's teleport sucks, but the df+K in the air move is still better for Yang, because he can do it after an attack, unlike his brother.
Yun DOES seem to win in the supers department. I think his You Hou (3 hit) super is really nice, as it can be comboed, has great priority and strength and can be juggled after. With Yang, I usually go for his kick super, which has crap damage, but goes under projectiles and can be comboed from his Mp-HP-back HP chain. Otherwise, I use the Genei Jin, but never the punch super which is both hard to hit with and does crap damage.
So as far as I can tell, Yun has the edge in combos and supers (and thus damage), but has less practical/effective skills on the whole.
[this message was edited by Pollyanna on Sat 11 Jun 07:24] |
| Spoon 1073th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(1):Yun vs Yang" , posted Sat 11 Jun 07:03:
quote:
Yun's QCF+P move, on the other hand, is completely safe if you use the weak version and cut out early (assuming you miss). It does cheese damage on top of that, and can be comboed from his (completely safe) low middle kick.
I really think you mean "Yang" here.
Yun's QCF+P is for combos. Yeah, you might punish the occasional moronic mistake with it, but you can't use it randomly because the risk is high and the reward is puny.
Yun's lp,lk,mp chain is vital. It sets up for his supers (i.e. Genei Jin), and if you stick a LP shoulder on the end, it builds a big chunk of meter.... often enough to put you over the top for a Genei Jin.
Yun has Genei Jin, and moves that are more conducive to it (e.g. QCF+P dash punch, DP shoulder tackle), that's his big advantage... and it's a BIG advantage. Yang's got a bunch of nice moves and tricks (e.g. lk, EX slashes) and against some characters he wins even more easily than Yun (watch matches of good Yangs versus Urien). But genei jin counts for just so much.
Besides, unless it's like Q who gets rushed down by either of the two for free, much of Yun's game is running away and building meter. Getting in their face with Yun has its uses, but by no means is it something that he has to do. It's a different story though when Yun is against someone that can keep up with him (e.g. Yang).
[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 11 Jun 07:07] |
| Time Mage 2172th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Talking about strategies" , posted Sun 12 Jun 08:42
Do you have any particular strategy you use and are proud of? It doesn't have to be "the best strategy in the world", just something you came up with and works in your circle of players.
One strategy I'm proud about is the "bouncing Chipp" in GGXX#R. My Chipp got destroyed pretty often as I tried to base my game on running and doing ground combos, until I started to abuse the triple jump: Jump at the opponent, and do randomly a single, double or triple jump, each activated at a different time and direction each time you do it, and land on them with either a jH (common), or use j2K at the peak of the jump to surprise them, then if hit (or even if blocked), combo something simple like S,S,236S,236S, and again to the air. Better if used while invisible, and mixing the blocked S,S strings with a D, 2D or 41236K. It can get incredibly annoying sometimes.
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| Maou 687th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):Talking about strategies" , posted Sun 12 Jun 09:21
Well, this can actually work well for almost any game, and ends up being effective just because it's so simple people don't expect it: the repeated trip alternating with the middle attack. It's incredibly obvious, but since when people play fighters a lot, they can start forgetting how effective the trip mind games are. Even more surprisingly, hardly anyone does it. So, trip, trip, trip, shouryuuken. Next, trip, trip, shouryuuken. When they get used to it, back to the other. Same for SC or other fighters. But the trip-middle alternation games can be beautifully deadly and universally fun in any dimension.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Spoon 1074th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(6):The new fighting game discussion thread" , posted Sun 12 Jun 11:22
quote:
, but Japanese players are never that predictable. Saying 'Yun will do *this* unless he's stupid' is maybe something that applies in the states, but I've seen and played so many people who use Yun in many different ways.
I don't know about that. Most match video Yuns follow one of two formulas:
- mostly what he detailed; running away building meter, rushing with genei, trying to get that juggle just before genei runs out.
- rush even without genei
Those which show Yun rushing even without genei built up tend to be cases where Yun simply can't effectively run away, or isn't hugely benefitted by (e.g. Yun vs. Yun, Yun vs. Q, Yun vs. some guy who isn't nearly as good as the Yun player). And it's not like everything he wrote is baloney, though some of it is questionable. It's true, Yun does do piddling damage when he doesn't have genei; therefore, what is the best way to take advantage of him when he's unmetered? What things are likely to work well on him? What tricks are there to be aware of when he DOES have genei on? I think that write-up is successful in detailing a lot of useful and valid information. It's not as though it's a hard and fast line that Yun is guaranteed to walk; hell, none of that applies if the other Yun is below a certain level of play, because such a Yun isn't going to be playing by such expected lines of reasoning (e.g. "run away until you have a genei jin built up").
I'd like to know just what kinds of "strategies" players like Kuroda and Hayao have in mind... since they use such strategically bizarre characters who knows what the hell they're actually thinking. I sure wouldn't play through an entire round thinking, "alright, red parry SPD to victory!"
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| Spoon 1080th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(5):Because we care..." , posted Sun 12 Jun 18:37:
quote:
What are some good practical application combos of his? I mean...corner stuff and dizzy stuff and crossup stuff or whatever is nice, but I'd rather learn relatively easy to apply stuff for more versatility. I'd LOVE to bring Necro up to the level with my good character.
I'm no Necro expert, but here are a bunch of handy things to know:
SAs:
All of his SAs are good.
For safety, pick Magnetic Storm. It's totally safe on block, and comes out real fast. Gives Necro a wakeup option outside of parry/block/tech. Handy to have against quick guys like Yun/Yang/etc. If you're quick, you can cancel it off of a normal in a corner juggle for some hits... but be aware that the damage this move does DIES when super cancelled.
Electric Snake (ES) is the most popular, and for good reason. However, you will rarely land it outside of combos, so keep in mind that that's what it's mainly for. Does OK dmg, but the meter is tiny and the stun is nice. Fun fact: ES goes under aegis and many other projectiles!
The throw super isn't bad, but I'd rather have mag storm.
ES can be comboed/linked off of a bunch of stuff, including but not limited to:
- UOH (link, doesn't have to be meaty)
- d+LK (cancel)
- MP (... link? dunno)
- b+MP (think this links)
- spin punch (either back turn or super cancel)
- DP electricity (super cancel)
Normals notes:
drill kicks (very useful for all kinds of stuff... knockdown, cross-up meaty drill kick... etc.)
b+HP (launches, usually you'll just juggle with db+HP)
db+HP (good for damaging juggles/pushing opponent to corner)
MP (juggle in corner off of throw, combos into ES)
b+HK (chains/links? into a bunch of stuff, but usually you'll just do db+HP)
b+MP (meter builder when far away, cancel into LP spin punch)
b+LK, b+LP (chain... i think it combos into LP spin punch)
d.LK (combos into LP spin punch and ES)
d+MK (poke... yeah, that's it.)
LP (quick, cancels into supers... it's a jab.)
d.LP (it's your quick jab for annoying people or getting them off you up close. combos into LP spin punch, but you gotta be pretty quick)
Some special move notes:
low grabby thing (cancel off some normal for a not-combo that hits way more than it reasonably should)
leaping strike thing (handy quick surprise move)
spin punch (LP combos off many normals, MP and HP don't. MP and HP leave opponent back turned, which allows you to stick on more stuff for more dmg/stun.)
overhead kick (quite good reach for an overhead. you'll probably use it some against cornered opponents.
General ideas:
Necro indeed needs combos to win. Knowing a few combos into ES is good. having d.LK and UOH ES are both pretty handy, as is LP spin punch ES. Against many opponents, playing a defense keep away game is going to be a mistake, as Necro lacks good moves outside of magnetic storm and slam dance for getting people off of him, and he has poor health. So, his best defense is a blistering offense. He has a bizillion ways to juggle dizzied opponents in the corner (every EX move can be used in some crazy ways... i've seen it O_O ). Necro dishes out buckets of stun, and as long as you keep pouring it on them, they're stun meter isn't going to be going down.
Two moves which he gets free juggles off of against cornered opponents are LP spin punch and towards/neutral throw. Frequently you'll just juggle with a MP or b+MP... which is fine. Note that juggling with these moves resets your opponent, rather than knocking them down. This means that the moment they land, they have to make another defensive guess. Just make sure you actually do something. Even throw them again if you want; you'll get another free juggle and they have to make another guess. Sometimes you'll be able to juggle with db+HP, which is nice... except that I don't know Necro well enough to tell you who/when you can off of LP spin punch.
LP spin punch is not totally safe on block, but it's not bad. Practically every cancellable normal Necro has will combo into LP spin punch. If it hits, it sends the opponent a good distance away... hopefully into a corner. It sets up juggles and MP spin punch can be super canceled into ES or mag storm. Don't back off after knockdowns or whatever to build meter; press forward with dashes/drill kicks.
Necro has somewhat dubious anti-airs. b+HP is not bad. d+MP is best done when they're going UP, not when they're coming down.
Aside from drill kicks (which you'll be doing a lot of), you won't be jumping that much. Jumping HP is ok air to air... works pretty good actually if you make sure it comes out a bit early. Jump back MP is a handy FAST overhead for mixing it up.
I remember that there's a bunch of little stuff involving b+LK (and b+MK)? But I can't remember/don't know.
Handy simple combo summary:
blah xx LP spin punch
- this is actually REALLY important.
Just about everything you can cancel will work. d.LK and b+MP are good ones to have.
something into ES.
- spin punch, UOH, MP/b+MP and d.LK ES are all handy to have.
blah into HCF+K (low grab)
- not a real combo, but it catches people more than it should.
(corner)
LP spin punch/f+throw, juggle
- really useful, and easy. If the MP isn't working for you off the throw, I think you can just do LP.
b+HP, db+HP
- b+HP has really good priority.
Examples of combos into ES that are more than "one move, ES":
b+MK xx MP spin punch xx ES
- the b+MK cancel is harder than it ought to be. This is a pretty obvious combo.
b+HK, d.LK xx ES
- well yeah.
Happy fun anti-Alex combo:
(corner only)
b+HK, db+HP x 4 (maybe 5? can't remember)
this looks as funny as it sounds, and takes off like 50% of Alex's health. I don't think it works on anyone but Alex (edit: it supposedly works on Hugo and maybe Urien too). It also isn't easy to do (I've only gotten ALL the elbows like once)... but hey, if you can make this work...
[this message was edited by Spoon on Mon 13 Jun 10:36] |
| Pollyanna 1173th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(6):Because we care..." , posted Mon 13 Jun 06:39
Spoon: Thanks a lot. A lot of that I already know, but a good deal of it gives me something new to play with. I'm exciteddddd. I didn't realize the electric snake comboed so easily...so that's a pretty big deal in itself. I prefer slam dance to his other super, though, because it has good damage, I never miss with it and the range consistantly surprises people. It'll be hard to get into electric snake, since slam dance is one of my favorite supers in the game.
I can't imagine a situation, outside of a dizzy (or your opponent totally screwing up) where the HP spin punch move would be even remotely safe, though. It has terrible startup and the recovery isn't so hot either. Similarly, I usually only use the HP electricity move when I see an attack (usually jumping) coming from a mile away, because it has that nasty lag on the beginning.
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| Spoon 1078th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(1):The SF guide..." , posted Mon 13 Jun 10:24
quote:
The US guide is so good not only because it got input from people of SRK, but it is written by top players at SRK. I think that the main writer was MrWizard, with the collaboration of players like Mopreme who spend a good while playing in Japan.
A lot of good players were consulted for the guide, including omni, Valle, and I think majestros (or was he just for the CFE guide?). Anyway, they're credited in the book.
Y'know, a friend of mine has this one SF2T/SSF2 guide that was incredible for a commercial guide... it had some REAL combos (like a Guile re-dizzy!), and some other interesting stuff... I don't remember exactly what was in it now, but I do remember being impressed by it all those years ago... not that I was that good at SF back then....
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| Spoon 1086th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(8):Because we care..." , posted Thu 16 Jun 16:44
Y'know what would be fun one day?
A combo challenge board.
But unlike most "duel" type challenges, the idea would be that one person writes out a combo, possibly with constraints, possibly leaving out important details like empty cancels, but never moves that hit, etc. and the other people are left not to just top the combo, but to VERIFY that it's possible! The person who posted the challenge is not obligated to respond in any way until a correct answer is posted. The first person who does post a verified correct answer then becomes "king of the hill", and proposes the next combo. And so forth. And people can have things like, who holds the record for the combo which has stumped the crowd for the longest, who has been king of the hill for the longest, etc.
This, of course, is all out GEEK.
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| Pollyanna 1178th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Thu 16 Jun 19:35
I finally got 3rd Strike back and I realize what an inept player I am. I was hoping to be the bottom rung of the ladder of success, but instead I'm the top rung of the failure ladder. Everything that everyone talks about everywhere, I am totally incapable of doing.
Like juggling after throwing with Necro in the corner...I can easily juggle with standing MP, but I cannot, for the life of me, no matter how many times I try, juggle with WP (necessary for combos). I also go nuts watching people follow up with jumping attacks after Chun Li's Houyoku Sen. By the time I get in the air, they're already on the ground. Is there some trick to this!?
And I can do some things like that. Like, after Yun's You-Hou, I can do his MP shoulder charge, then hop punch (child's play, I know)...and after Makoto's kick super I can dash under my opponent before they hit the ground and do a move (usually not the one I want, but whatever). That one's tricky, since you want to hit with the hukiage and the controls reverse on you in the middle.
I'm also, tragically too slow to link the genei jin after lp,lk,mp with Yun. As a result, I'm crippled on decent genei-jin comboes, though in my frustration, I made a very pretty one for fun. It's like...
Whatever into Genei-jin, dp+wk,fb+sp,(puts you on the other side)mk,sp,fb+mp,sp,dp+mp,fb+sp
Junk damage, nice and slow so a simpleton can do it, but aesthetically pleasing at least.
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| Spoon 1089th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(2):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 17 Jun 01:34:
quote:
I finally got 3rd Strike back and I realize what an inept player I am. I was hoping to be the bottom rung of the ladder of success, but instead I'm the top rung of the failure ladder. Everything that everyone talks about everywhere, I am totally incapable of doing.
This is totally normal.
quote:
Like juggling after throwing with Necro in the corner...I can easily juggle with standing MP, but I cannot, for the life of me, no matter how many times I try, juggle with WP (necessary for combos).
I haven't seen games lost on the (in)ability to do that, so don't worry about it too much. You've got MP down, anyway.
quote:
I also go nuts watching people follow up with jumping attacks after Chun Li's Houyoku Sen. By the time I get in the air, they're already on the ground. Is there some trick to this!?
What IS required is a super jump cancel on the last hit. The window for it is not huge, but if you're having a really hard time doing it, just mash db,uf on your joystick for the entire duration of the SA.
quote:
Makoto
I don't use Makoto at all, but your problems all sound theoretically correct. One thing that you might find handy is to remember that there are "weight classes" in the game; i.e. different characters fall at different rates and get launched to different heights from moves. The significance of this is that the timing, moves, and even possibility of many juggles varies between characters of the weight classes. So how is this at all significant to this? Well, if the whole side switching thing is being a pain, pick a lighter character to be the practice dummy. Alex, the default training dummy for P2, is among the heaviest (i.e. launched to the lowest height for a given move) in the game. Necro is heavier than Ken/Ryu (who are average), and Yun/Ibuki/etc. are among the lightest. Picking a lighter target gives you more time to execute the juggle, usually.
quote:
I'm also, tragically too slow to link the genei jin after lp,lk,mp with Yun.
First of all, this should be a cancel and not a link. Pedantic, yes. But in practice, an important distinction. You can make your life much easier by doing this:
lp,lk, mp xx DP+lp xx genei
If you can land the DP, the genei jin is just another qcf away. You will probably want to hold the mp while doing the cancel, else you might accidentally get a DP+mp, which will NOT combo. The DP also gets you meter. Yay.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Fri 17 Jun 02:07] |
| Iggy 6745th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 17 Jun 05:35
quote:
there are "weight classes" in the game ie different characters
HEY YOU HEAR THAT ? DIFFERENT !
Yes Chunli, I hear that.
ME NOT FAT, ME DIFFERENT ! YATTA !
Yes Chunli, you are not fat. No, stop it, I told you, this is my lunch.
But me hungry....
Yes, but you already ate your meal, and those of the rest of the class as well. That's enough.
IT'S BECAUSE CHUNLI DIFFERENT ! YATTA !
Yes, Chunli, I know, you're... No, that's my leg. You can't eat people's legs.
BUT CHUNLI IS HUNGRY !
Yes, but it's not STOP IT YOU CAN'T EAT PEOPLE'S LEG STOP IT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SOMEONE STOP HER SHE'S HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP !!!!!!!!!
ME HUNGRY, ME EAT ! YATTA !
~Fin~
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
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| Pollyanna 1180th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(3):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 17 Jun 07:38
Lots of stuff...
Burning Kyo: Ah, thanks. I was totally messed up on that. I was trying to time it afterwards and I wasn't even super jumping. It's actually really easy to do.
Time Mage: Or if you're insane, dash and fukiage again.
I'm not convinced with Yun's sourai rengeki. I really think it's his weakest. The advantage is that you build a gauge quickly, and if you can't do anything with genei jin, then it's better for EX moves, but I don't know if it's better than you-hou altogether. I mean, you-hou is also highly comboable, gives you plenty of EX room (though I rarely use Yun's EX moves) and does more damage. Although it takes longer to build, I can build a gauge with Yun faster than anyone else, so it's hardly an issue.
Spoon:
Whew...about Necro. It's not really that I have to have that jab juggle to win, it's more about the frustration of watching someone do (what appears to be) exactly what I do and having it connect, while my poke goes right through the enemy time and time again. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
About Makoto/Chun Li...no more problems.
About Yun...whew. I was avoiding doing the shoulder before the super, because it hurts the damage. Of course, scaled damage is still better than no damage at all. I have problems being consistant on that combo to begin with. I can do the hop punch right after the mp, but the combination of the delay before the MP and doing a dp motion gets me about 2/3 of the time. Anyway, the distance for that is right for a decent corner combo? So I should start with Mp,fHP,fMK,fMK... (after genei jin) right? I realize that there are different weight class combos, but I'm not getting into that mess. I'll just do a dumbed down universal combo.
Also, what should I do from the middle of the screen/after his command throw? It seems like a waste to spend precious genei jin time on his throw, but I find that it connects quite often, since players get scared when you genei jin. I realize that I should always combo the genei jin, but in an imperfect world, I tend to miss it from time to time.
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| Time Mage 2176th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 17 Jun 17:43
quote:
Time Mage: Or if you're insane, dash and fukiage again.
You can't unless if you kara the 1st fukiage with HK.
It can lead to a full stun combo on almost everyone : SA2, dash kara-dpMP, dash dpLP, jump HP. There's many videos of this combo on SRK board (>SF3.3>Makoto).
Yeah, that's right, and since I'm an inept Kara-cancelling stuff, I didn't even mention it.
And about Yun's SAII, it has one very important advantage over his SAI: It comboes from his UOH, unlike the You Hou, so that makes Yun quite fearsome in wakeup situations against many characters without a decent wakeup move. The You Hou has a little bit less range, making it not as versatile, in my opinion. I've been able to nail 2 SAII within 5 seconds, just guessing right if my opponent was going to wake up blocking low or high. And that's quite a lot more damage than a You Hou.
Anyway, his best super is the Gen'ei Jin, so whatever.
Oh, and a VERY important question: What colour do you pick for you characters? My picks, in the DC version are:
- Remy: Start+Left shoulder. All black, blue hair. Better suited for him than his original costume.
- Makoto: Green (Y) button: Green hair!
- Yun and Yang: Red (A) Button: Both get a Black & white costume, and Yang gets red hair, effectively making him Iori's long lost twin.
I'll stop here, but I have a colour for nearly every character.
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| burning kyo 2329th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(6):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 17 Jun 18:12
quote:
Yeah, that's right, and since I'm an inept Kara-cancelling stuff, I didn't even mention it.
Oh, and a VERY important question: What colour do you pick for you characters?
I can do this Makoto's combo around 70 % of the time. IMO the hardest part isn't the kara-cancel ... for me, it's the 2nd fukiage. Sometimes it did a qcfP instead ... ^_^'
(I play on ps2 version)
My colors are :
- Makoto : MP (white dougi, red scarf, dark green hair) or LP (standard color)
- Chun : LP (standard color) or HK (?) (red clothes)
- Yang : green top, black pant, dark purple hair or standard color or iori color
- Ken : HK (white dougi)
[welcome to the devil's nest]
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| Time Mage 2177th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Sat 18 Jun 08:11
quote:
Are there any overpowered colors in 3S? I'd like to put Smurf Urien to the test, but I don't know enough Urien players to test him against other Uriens.
Smurf Urien is obviously overpowered, as well as clown Hugo and Barbie Ibuki. Barbie Ibuki, however, is a double-sided weapon: she hurts your view as well as your opponent's. If you can play without seeing, though, Barbie Ibuki is top tier.
Also, THE colour of Twelve is his "army men green" colour, and Chunli is better in her dominatrix incarnation, the all-black Start + right trigger combo.
Oh, and the real Ken is bright orange Ken in SFA2. That's powerful.
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| Spoon 1099th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(10):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Sat 18 Jun 09:10
quote:
I haven't tested SFZ3, so maybe he's the new "purple Ken". All I know is that he wasn't fixed by Zero 2. But X-Men Ken was a new character, right?
Are there any overpowered colors in 3S? I'd like to put Smurf Urien to the test, but I don't know enough Urien players to test him against other Uriens.
Well, Ken wouldn't be X-men Ken without X-ism, so he's probably just mid tier in earlier games where he's blue.
There is a significant, devoted group that believe the pink characters in 3S are the strongest. This is obviously false, since Red Q is not pink.
Barbie Ibuki is upper mid tier.
Iggy Alex is BOTTOM tier. hehehehe
Black 12 is pretty high tier on dark monitors in the Russia stage. Kinda like how I would use Black Faust in GGXX (he's SIGNIFICANTLY less black in XX#r, serious).
Did you guys ever see the Shin (or some other prefix) Akuma bug in the home (I think PSX) version of ST? If he activates Raging Demon the instant he is hit by a fireball, then the game world freezes except for Akuma. He can shoot fireballs and stuff, but they won't move anywhere. He can hit his opponent or "throw" them and make them lose life.... until he does another Raging Demon, and time resumes. It's the most awesome SF2 glitch EVER, because it confirms why Akuma is flat out broken: he has THE WORLD.
TOKIYO TOMARE
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| Jason
129th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 24 Jun 02:13:
quote:
I'm more interested in doing imaginary Third Strike combos (since right now I don't have access to the game). Could any Q player confirm or refute (probably the latter) this combo?:
Q, SAII:
63214K, [4]2[P], [4]2Pxx236236P, [4]2[P], [4]2P
Where [] means "hold".
I'm gonna step up to the plate and refute. The combo's fine up until the SA, but at this point, you'll notice that the combo counter pops onto the screen before your opponent lands, indicating that no more juggling will be allowed. I'm not sure, but I think it might be due to a 2 hit juggle limit specific to the c&db, much like how knockdown juggles are generally limited to 6 (not counting supers). The fact that you can't juggle after a wall bounce ex-dash if you decide to use it as the second juggle hit after a c&db seems to go along with this. Also, I'm pretty sure that you're limited to one follow-up hit after SAII, even under normal circumstances.
I knew I would do it and I know this I know what I am doing now that I am doing something both beautiful but gruesome because I am destroying its beauty by knowing that it might be beautiful know that if I know that I am dong something beautiful that it's no longer beautiful. - Dave Eggers A.H.W.O.S.G.
[this message was edited by Jason on Fri 24 Jun 02:15] |
| Time Mage 2183th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Re(10):Re(10):Because we care..." , posted Fri 24 Jun 04:14
quote:
I'm more interested in doing imaginary Third Strike combos (since right now I don't have access to the game). Could any Q player confirm or refute (probably the latter) this combo?:
Q, SAII:
63214K, [4]2[P], [4]2Pxx236236P, [4]2[P], [4]2P
Where [] means "hold".
I'm gonna step up to the plate and refute. The combo's fine up until the SA, but at this point, you'll notice that the combo counter pops onto the screen before your opponent lands, indicating that no more juggling will be allowed. I'm not sure, but I think it might be due to a 2 hit juggle limit specific to the c&db, much like how knockdown juggles are generally limited to 6 (not counting supers). The fact that you can't juggle after a wall bounce ex-dash if you decide to use it as the second juggle hit after a c&db seems to go along with this. Also, I'm pretty sure that you're limited to one follow-up hit after SAII, even under normal circumstances.
Heh, I supposed something like that would happen, but I had to try. Thanks for the refutal.
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