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| Undead Fred 2405th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
    
|  "I've got a whole deck of race cards to play!" , posted Thu 23 Jun 08:52
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The one thing that really struck me as racist in the last three GTAs was the depiction of the Triads in GTA3. Compared to the way the Italians and Japanese were depicted, the Chinese really got the shaft.
I won't get into this in detail again unless someone is begging for a refresher. Anyway, the problem was totally rectified in GTA: San Andreas.
BUT GETTING BACK ON TOPIC... and I'm dead serious when I say this...
The plot of Destroy all Humans! is built on (intergalactic) racism. Furons justify wiping out humanity because they consider themselves genetically superior. There are other aspects as well, but judging from the disappointing ending, I don't even think the designers actually realized what was going on in their own game.
Fun game to screw around with though. I just wish the world outside the story missions weren't so incredibly flat and boring.
I'm not really gonna bother with GTA here, but I'll just say I don't think it's racist. It's not like any group of people are supposed to be good in those games... They all look bad. I'm just saying that people are really quick to start screaming RACISM!! at anything whether the claim has reason behind it or not. I remember reading a reader letter in a magazine where someone was calling Crazy Taxi racist because a fare jumped in the car and wanted to go to KFC and happened to be black (as if no one else jumped in and asked to go there). I also remember reading posts of some girl in Europe calling Maxis racist for releasing a Sims update in Europe after the US.
Anyway, I was reading a review for Destroy All Humans on GameSpot... they gave it a decent score, but they also said it was easy. I also noticed that Conker's out now too, so what would you guys recommend if I were to choose between the two? I want Destroy All Humans, but if it's going to be a total pushover and I'll be done with it in a day, I don't want to mess with it. I NEED INPUT PLEASE
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| Ishmael 2067th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "I've got a whole deck of rice cards to play!" , posted Thu 23 Jun 10:02
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I'm not really gonna bother with GTA here, but I'll just say I don't think it's racist. It's not like any group of people are supposed to be good in those games... They all look bad.
Exactly. When most every character in the game is a criminal of some description or another it's really hard to say that one group is coming across more poorly than another. Besides, is anybody looking for a sensitive, culturally aware portrayal of different ethnic groups when playing a GTA game?
Speaking of GTA and it's spawn, is there any sandbox type game out there that doesn't involve letting you rampage through the enviornment?
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Anyway, I was reading a review for Destroy All Humans on GameSpot... they gave it a decent score, but they also said it was easy. I also noticed that Conker's out now too, so what would you guys recommend if I were to choose between the two? I want Destroy All Humans, but if it's going to be a total pushover and I'll be done with it in a day, I don't want to mess with it. I NEED INPUT PLEASE
Samurai Western, because it's such a low budget game that the cowboys can't even afford horses.
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| Undead Fred 2407th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):I've got a whole deck of rice cards to" , posted Thu 23 Jun 18:25
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Oh come on. Saying it's hard to tell if one group is coming across worse than another is a ridiculous oversimplification. How familiar are you with the series, and have you played the game?
I'm telling you, the Triads get the shaft. If you model your other organized crime syndicates on semi-glorious gang movies, but skip the Hong Kong flicks and go straight to generic asian sterotypes you're doing a hack job.
First off, THEY'RE GANG MEMBERS. Who cares if they're positive role models? Since nothing really happens with the Triads in GTA3, they're just cannon fodder. Every pedestrian in that game has goofy voices. And again, the Triads are pretty normal in SA. I'm surprised you weren't complaining about the Yardies or Diablos or something. Or the Cubans and Haitians in VC. GTA isn't racist. White people look bad, Asians look bad, black people look bad, latinos look bad, and so on and so on. Everyone's a dirty bastard in the GTA world.
Anyway, about Samurai Western- is this out in the US? I don't think I've heard anything about it... What is it like?
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| Mosquiton 1654th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Triads, then and now..." , posted Fri 24 Jun 00:20
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First off, THEY'RE GANG MEMBERS. Who cares if they're positive role models? And again, the Triads are pretty normal in SA. I'm surprised you weren't complaining about the Yardies or Diablos or something. Or the Cubans and Haitians in VC. GTA isn't racist.
So I say one thing about one game annoys me, and suddenly I'm claiming that the entire GTA series is racist? That's not what I'm getting at. All I'm saying is that the depiction of Triads in GTA3 has racist overtones, and is really unflattering compared to other the mafia and yakuza. Do you disagree?
So in GTAIII, you have the mafia. They wear suits, speak with a non-comical, non-exaggerated accent and drive limos and sedans.
Right next to them you have Triads. They wear shitty blue workman's clothes, speak with an obnoxious, fake asian accents ("me something long time!", "no money no problem")and drive laundry vans and fish trucks.
These are both supposedly organized crime syndicates. Would they have the Italians driving Pizza Delivery Vans and Olive Oil trucks? Of course not. That strikes me as inconsistent, and to me it hurts the game.
You mention that the Triads are 'pretty normal' in San Andreas. They're now well groomed and wear suits. The main triad character Wu Zi Mu is laid back and intelligent. Good observation. Surely something motivated the change.
Rockstar claims on the San Andreas website that they conducted "massive amounts of research before developing the gangs of San Andreas". And it shows. I think it's fairly obvious that Rockstar was working toward a more balanced, consistent tone and that their games are getting better for it.
It seems that whenever race comes up, everyone immediately goes on the defensive. Much more of a hot topic than sexuality, obviously. It makes people feel uncomfortable, and a lot of people would rather ignore it or glaze over anything controversial.
That's fine. I'm not big on the concept of race, personally, but the truth is that people are free to identify themselves any way they choose. I respect that, and I like to see game design respect that. Sorry to stir things up.
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| Undead Fred 2410th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Triads, then and now..." , posted Fri 24 Jun 03:38
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It seems that whenever race comes up, everyone immediately goes on the defensive. Much more of a hot topic than sexuality, obviously. It makes people feel uncomfortable, and a lot of people would rather ignore it or glaze over anything controversial.
That's fine. I'm not big on the concept of race, personally, but the truth is that people are free to identify themselves any way they choose. I respect that, and I like to see game design respect that. Sorry to stir things up.
Actually, I wasn't trying to be defensive at all. I'm just a little tired of people claiming that something is racist when they don't really have any foundation to make that claim (like the examples I mentioned before about Crazy Taxi and Maxis). So, when someone says that Tenchu or Jet Grind Radio or any other random game/movie/etc is racist, I like to call them on it.
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So I say one thing about one game annoys me, and suddenly I'm claiming that the entire GTA series is racist? That's not what I'm getting at. All I'm saying is that the depiction of Triads in GTA3 has racist overtones, and is really unflattering compared to other the mafia and yakuza. Do you disagree?
To pillorize one part of a game for being offensive while the rest of the game is awash in the same style of generalization seems, to me, a tricky proposition. By judging one section of the game against another it gives tacit approval to the other parts of the game, setting up a "good stereotype/bad stereotype" quandary. Your sentence "All I'm saying is that the depiction of Triads in GTA3 has racist overtones, and is really unflattering compared to other the mafia and yakuza" could be interpreted to mean that the Triad depicted in GTA3 are a stereotype you were unhappy with while you were seemingly more comfortable with the other stereotypes but I'm certain that's not what you mean at all. If you want to say that in your opinion you didn't like the portrayal of the Triad gang compared to the other gangs that's understandable. But when you start throwing around inflammatory language like "racism" you're changing the conversation from discussing one part of the game to the entire presentation and how it connects with the culture at large. In a way I'm arguing semantics but words do have power.
That's pretty much the way I saw it too. It is a semantics thing, but as you said, the words you choose may imply more meaning than you want. The point I was trying to make with bringing up those other gangs is that they're not really any different than the other gangs in the game. Ishmael's right.
I'm just surprised this didn't degrade into OMG NOT ALL ITALIANS ARE IN THE MAFIA!!
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