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| Spoon 1192th Post
 
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|  "Re(2):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 10:46
quote:
It's a good video featuring my favorite SF3 character (AKA the 'King (KOF/AOF)' of SF). While the combos look nice, I tend to have a distrust of these videos unless there's a practical way of using them in real games. Plus, I hear this KYSG guy uses a programmable stick.
Argh.
Again with these arguments.
I'm going to count to 10.
Ok, done.
quote:
While the combos look nice, I tend to have a distrust of these videos unless there's a practical way of using them in real games.
They're not meant to be practical in any way, shape, or form. If they come off as practical, it's incidental to the setup. Why should we restrict ourselves to that which is practical for an exhibition? Besides, I think "distrust" is the totally wrong word for this. I think the word you're looking for is along the lines of "dislike" or "disrespect".
quote:
Plus, I hear this KYSG guy uses a programmable stick.
He says so up front at the end of practically every video he makes. So what? These are combo exhibitions. Are we going to complain when it gets shown to us that it isn't being performed live, and is instead the canned result of maybe dozens of failed attempts?
Seriously, this is an "infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters" argument. So what if you have this tool? It in no way guarantees that you will develop even one fragment of one of these combos within a finite period of time. KYSG is making stuff the likes of which no one has seen before, and I think programmable controllers have been around for a pretty darn long time.
Combo execution means nothing if the combo is not there to be executed.
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| Spoon 1193th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 12:10
quote:
dead for me too ... =(
can also be found at www.combovideos.com
quote:
tosaka
also a very good combo video.
KYSG compares very well, in some cases, totally superior to the tosaka video though....
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KYSG's other videos
... which brings me to this.
His first video featured, get this, Q and 12. A combo video. Q. 12. No system direction.
It was (and still is) amazing. His Q and 12 stuff totally blow away the comparatively simple (admittedly just one each for the two) combos for Q and 12 shown in tosaka's vid.
So far he has done Q, 12, Alex, Chun, Ken, Akuma, and now Elena. His site usually stops hosting big files in short order, but you can get pretty much all of them from places like combovideos.com.
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| Spoon 1194th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(4):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 15:02
quote:
Ooh, touchy aren't we?
It's just my opinion
Good that that's clear.
Since it is just an opinion (which can be invalid and otherwise incorrect), I ought to just ignore you. But, in the fashion of the internet, it is necessary to refute what you already state as (possibly invalid or otherwise incorrect) opinion.
quote:
that unless it's practical, people shouldn't do it.
...
...
...hmm.
There's a lot of responses which I could write here.
I think I'll just leave it at, "art is not necessarily practical". Iggy could probably give you a much funnier, much gayer response.
quote:
Otherwise, we're just mystified by flashy mediocrity (see Marvel vs Capcom 2).
Now this is simply invalid, and I'll ignore the MvC2 comment. If all you had to do was ram buttons randomly and you'd get results like this, fine. The fact is, you CANNOT just come up with this stuff randomly... unless you have a near-infinite amount of time. "Mediocrity" is the completely wrong word to attach to a product of enormous knowledge, experimentation, and creativity.
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So what if the combos are possible in the game? It doesn't mean shit unless you can use it in a competitive setting.
It's called taking the game to the limit... a concept which somehow seems alien to you in spite of your iron adherence to "competition worthy".
Besides, there's a lot more to fighting games than just trying to be "practical for competition". Do you somehow not enjoy the experience of discovery, or the creation of something novel? There are a lot of things that were discovered and then made "practical". Some things that are discovered are not "practical"; that doesn't mean that they aren't and can't be fun. Have you never gone and said, "hey, did you know you could do THIS?", and proceeded to wow someone?
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| Iggy 7005th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
   
| "Re(4):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 17:57
I hate it when the world "art" is being used as an excuse everytime someone wants to defend something he likes.
Please, people, there are other words, which have as much positive value as art.
Like, I don't know... Fun.
"Someone is having fun doing this, and people are having fun watching this."
Or Goose.
"Elena reminds me of a goose, and it makes me laugh to watch her goosing around".
Try it. Leave the word "art" to people who know what it means.
quote:
It doesn't mean shit unless you can use it in a competitive setting.
Exactly.
Also, putting more characters in a game doesn't mean shit if you can't use them in a competitive setting. Sean, Q, Twelve ? 3rd should only have Chunli, Yun and Ken.
Also, KOFs should only have Iori, Kyô and whoever is broken that year. This would allow the developpers to spend more time on flashy backgrounds and music, things that are so much more important than variety.
Remind me, how high did you rank at the last Tôgeki ?
ねんがんの ７０００をてにいれたぞ！
そう かんけいないね
=> 殺してでもうばいとる
ゆずってくれ たのむ！！
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| Spoon 1195th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(5):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 18:45
quote:
I hate it when the world "art" is being used as an excuse everytime someone wants to defend something he likes.
Please, people, there are other words, which have as much positive value as art.
Like, I don't know... Fun.
"Someone is having fun doing this, and people are having fun watching this."
quote:
Or Goose.
"Elena reminds me of a goose, and it makes me laugh to watch her goosing around".
nada on "goose", because i've been around persians who love the word "gooz", and may accidentally interpret "goose" as "gooz".
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Try it. Leave the word "art" to people who know what it means.
Nope, sorry, no can do.
We and all the people we believe we represent refuse to stop abusing the word "art". It's the get-out-of-jail-free card of all time, and so long as we can keep it misunderstood, we will.
quote:
Exactly.
Also, putting more characters in a game doesn't mean shit if you can't use them in a competitive setting. Sean, Q, Twelve ? 3rd should only have Chunli, Yun and Ken.
No no, this is incorrect.
As the last SBO has demonstrated, the game should consist of Q and Hugo, with any other characters as assists.
quote:
This would allow the developpers to spend more time on flashy backgrounds and music, things that are so much more important than variety.
It is impossible to determine whether or not this is sarcasm, coming from Iggy.
quote:
Remind me, how high did you rank at the last Tôgeki ?
To invoke the vernacular of those darned kids, OHHH SNAP
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| Spoon 1196th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(5):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 18:46
quote:
I hate it when the world "art" is being used as an excuse everytime someone wants to defend something he likes.
Please, people, there are other words, which have as much positive value as art.
Like, I don't know... Fun.
"Someone is having fun doing this, and people are having fun watching this."
quote:
Or Goose.
"Elena reminds me of a goose, and it makes me laugh to watch her goosing around".
nada on "goose", because i've been around persians who love the word "gooz", and may accidentally interpret "goose" as "gooz".
quote:
Try it. Leave the word "art" to people who know what it means.
Nope, sorry, no can do.
We and all the people we believe we represent refuse to stop abusing the word "art". It's the get-out-of-jail-free card of all time, and so long as we can keep it misunderstood, we will.
quote:
Exactly.
Also, putting more characters in a game doesn't mean shit if you can't use them in a competitive setting. Sean, Q, Twelve ? 3rd should only have Chunli, Yun and Ken.
No no, this is incorrect.
As the last SBO has demonstrated, the game should consist of Q and Hugo, with any other characters as assists.
quote:
This would allow the developpers to spend more time on flashy backgrounds and music, things that are so much more important than variety.
It is impossible to determine whether or not this is sarcasm, coming from Iggy.
quote:
Remind me, how high did you rank at the last Tôgeki ?
Invoking the vernacular of those darned kids, OHHH SNAP
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| Spoon 1197th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(5):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Wed 10 Aug 18:46
quote:
Or Goose.
"Elena reminds me of a goose, and it makes me laugh to watch her goosing around".
nada on "goose", because i've been around persians who love the word "gooz", and may accidentally interpret "goose" as "gooz".
quote:
Try it. Leave the word "art" to people who know what it means.
Nope, sorry, no can do.
We and all the people we believe we represent refuse to stop abusing the word "art". It's the get-out-of-jail-free card of all time, and so long as we can keep it misunderstood, we will.
quote:
Exactly.
Also, putting more characters in a game doesn't mean shit if you can't use them in a competitive setting. Sean, Q, Twelve ? 3rd should only have Chunli, Yun and Ken.
No no, this is incorrect.
As the last SBO has demonstrated, the game should consist of Q and Hugo, with any other characters as assists.
quote:
This would allow the developpers to spend more time on flashy backgrounds and music, things that are so much more important than variety.
It is impossible to determine whether or not this is sarcasm, coming from Iggy.
quote:
Remind me, how high did you rank at the last Tôgeki ?
Invoking the vernacular of those darned kids, OHHH SNAP
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| Burning Ranger 1268th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Thu 11 Aug 01:09:
quote:
It's called taking the game to the limit... a concept which somehow seems alien to you in spite of your iron adherence to "competition worthy".
No, it's not alien to me. Show me a match video where these combos are used and I'll give it more respect. But right now, while the combos look cool, I give it less respect because they were pulled off in practice setting and the person didn't use a default joystick controller (i.e. NO PROGRAMMABLE STICK).
quote:
Besides, there's a lot more to fighting games than just trying to be "practical for competition". Do you somehow not enjoy the experience of discovery, or the creation of something novel? There are a lot of things that were discovered and then made "practical". Some things that are discovered are not "practical"; that doesn't mean that they aren't and can't be fun. Have you never gone and said, "hey, did you know you could do THIS?", and proceeded to wow someone?
I didn't think that I was bashing doing things for fun. By all means, if it's fun, do it. Sure, the combo video was enlightening, and dare I say it, fun. To answer your question, I've shown some aspects of a game to someone and wowed them, but then I get this question afterwards: "Cool, but how can you use that in the game?" If you can't give an answer, then what's the real point?
Now we know where you stand and where I stand. Let's kill the discussion!
Advanced Cyborg E. Branger AKA Burning Ranger
Felicia & Morrigan: no explanation necessary.
[this message was edited by Burning Ranger on Thu 11 Aug 01:12] |
| KTallguy 722th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(7):KYSG's insane new Elena combo video" , posted Thu 11 Aug 12:39:
I really enjoyed the video as well... unfortunately I feel Burning Ranger's pain on this one.
I have a friend that is trying to learn Elena right now, and it's a shame that the only cool looking, damaging combos that she can do are in situations that almost never happen. I also think those impossible combos where someone jumps over their own fireball are dumb, personally. They do look nice, and are cool, and stretch the limits of the game. I'm not saying that's untrue. But yea, in the end it's just cool looking. That's it.
I really want SF4... =(
Oh and Sabo's post about the video. It's mainly because Gouki has a short stun gauge and takes damage like a feral chihuahua. On most characters this combo wouldn't work.
However Makoto is very strong. In Japan, people know her tricks, so they are forced to improvise a lot, but she's still one of the best characters in the game, IMO.
Proud Supporter of Next Generation GAMEPLAY
"テメエがヤクブソクなんだよ!"
[this message was edited by KTallguy on Thu 11 Aug 12:46] |
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support this title!
"Re(7):it puts the lotion in the basket" , posted Thu 11 Aug 06:08:
