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| Time Mage 2561th Post
 
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|  "Re(4):Guilty Gear Accent Core heading statesi" , posted Tue 26 Jun 21:17
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I can't imagine playing it on any of the possible Wii controllers. 2D fighters in general would be hard to play, but GG is the most demanding 2D fighter I can think of.
With the classic controller, I don't see much difference with the PS2 controller. I haven't touched a classic controller yet, but the 4 face buttons for P, K, S, H, the right shoulder button for D, and the left one for a RC shortcut, should make a good configuration. Is the classic controller horrible or something like that?
Dragon Kick your ass into the Milky Waaay~~ (Milky Waaaay)
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| hikarutilmitt 418th Post
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| "Re(5):Guilty Gear Accent Core heading statesi" , posted Wed 27 Jun 02:01
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I can't imagine playing it on any of the possible Wii controllers. 2D fighters in general would be hard to play, but GG is the most demanding 2D fighter I can think of.
With the classic controller, I don't see much difference with the PS2 controller. I haven't touched a classic controller yet, but the 4 face buttons for P, K, S, H, the right shoulder button for D, and the left one for a RC shortcut, should make a good configuration. Is the classic controller horrible or something like that?
Classic controller is absolutely wonderful, but I'd probably either use my PS2-GC/Xbox adapter for my arcade stick or Saturn pad.
Then again, I'd probably get the PS2 version for the reasons I mentioned above, and I couldn't imagine the Wii version being that much better to warrant getting it, other than adding a Wii game to my library.
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| hikarutilmitt 419th Post
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| "Re(7):Guilty Gear Accent Core heading statesi" , posted Wed 27 Jun 13:06
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Really! The classic controller is that good, huh? At least comparable to a PS2 pad? I haven't used one before, but this sounds like good news!
But then again, everyone but me seems to think that PS2 pads are absolutely terrible, so I guess that evaluation might be useless. I like the older PS2 pads. The new ones are a bit cheap. If it's any point of reference, I also found the old NeoGeo pads, Saturn pads and (small) Xbox pads to be quite acceptable.
You're not alone. I can't say I prefer the gigantic original US Saturn pad, but the Xbox controller S, PS2 pad and Saturn-style PS2 pad to be quite usable, particularly the latter.
The classic controller feels might comfortable. It's slightly larger than a SNES controller and feels about the same, but it's really nice because of the analog placements and the Z button is more or less where it needs to be, since it's a pretty flat controller. I really don't like the GC controller layout and was saddened when I found you couldn't use a classic as a GC controller, but it's mighty nice for anything else.
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| Time Mage 2562th Post
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| "Re(4):Smooth" , posted Thu 28 Jun 23:07
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Kliff and Justice aren't tourney legal, and besides all that, they were and always have been incredibly incredibly broken, even in casual play... no skin off my back!
Kliff, sure, but Justice is in fact less useful than some normal characters. She has easy and damaging combos, and nothing more. I mean, little to no mind games, limited pressure game (grenades are good, but only FRC'd), and she's a big and light target, meaning easy, long combos on her.
Also, not having them in is stupid, period. They can just tack them in there with no changes at all, and you won't hear anyone complain. They're there for those who want to use them, not for competition or even casual play.
Dragon Kick your ass into the Milky Waaay~~ (Milky Waaaay)
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| Red Falcon 5822th Post
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| "Re(5):Smooth" , posted Fri 29 Jun 09:59
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She has easy and damaging combos, and nothing more. I mean, little to no mind games, limited pressure game (grenades are good, but only FRC'd), and she's a big and light target, meaning easy, long combos on her.
Yeah, apparently Justice is actually quite awful at this point. Shows how much I actually know about Kliff and Justice, ha ha ha.
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| Mog 405th Post
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| "Re(5):Smooth" , posted Sat 30 Jun 11:48:
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But it is a home version, if someone holds a tourny just make using them illegal. Besides why don't they just balance them out anyway, wouldn't be hard.
On the contrary, balance is just about the hardest thing to achieve when making games since it's impossible to predict and/or compensate for everything that players might do. At best, you carefully plan-out each character's move list, hold numerous loke-tests, and hope for the best. I mean, how many fighters out there are balanced enough to the point where each and every character can compete? Out of all the fighters I pretend to be am familiar with, Super Turbo, Samurai Showdown 2, and (assuming everything its advocates tell me is true) numerous iterations of Virtua Fighter are the only ones I can think of. That's not much.
It would still be nice to have Kliff and Justice in for shits and giggles, but they're in 3 of the home iterations as is and plenty of people still play Slash. Pick that up, and you're good.
Edit: w00t, broken avatar club join!
[this message was edited by Mog on Sat 30 Jun 11:52] |
| Red Falcon 5823th Post
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| "Re(9):Smooth" , posted Sat 30 Jun 14:40
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Groovy, I may have a look at Slash, then, since I would try to avoid glitches even if Guile's handcuffs were mostly before my time. Waiting on a NEW CHALLENGER, what have you to say, Red Falcon?
I prefer Slash myself, honestly... but really, most of the tourney hoppers around here don't seem too put off by the glitches from Accent Core. They still had a tourney for it and not Slash last C3, and people drove down from New York, Delaware, and Pennsylvania to participate anyway. The general consensus seems to be "the glitches are there, but people frequently make them out to be more than they are." To a degree I think which game you prefer probably depends on which character you use... if you like ABA or Baiken you'll probably prefer Accent Core, ha ha ha. I personally don't much care for a lot of the changes Potemkin got. He's a better character for them, but he's also not really a command throw character at this point, which may be another reason I'm kind of ambivalent towards the game.
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| Red Falcon 5829th Post
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| "Re(4):Re(10):Smooth" , posted Mon 2 Jul 05:55:
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This discussion of balance is why I don't buy into the tier crap. How can one character be viewed as "bad" and suddenly become top tier over the course of a few months?
The character never changes, only the players.
It isn't "crap", it's a fact of life; some characters just don't work as well as others based on the way the game is designed. A character who is "bad" or "weak" can change drastically come the next revision of a game because they change the properties on his/her moves; he could get better hit boxes, they could add autoguard to moves, they could make something come out faster or recover more safely, there are any NUMBER of things they can do to improve (or weaken) a character. Come to think of it, Anji (whom I was thinking about in a different context lower down in this rant) is a prime example of this; he is weaker in Accent Core because he lost his guard points on a bunch of moves, amongst other things. .. which brings to mind a question for Time Mage. This is why tiers juggle in every game. Any game that has been out for a while has solid, unchanging tiers; when a game is still new, the list changes periodically as people are continuing to experiment or figure out new stuff in the revised system. While a player's skill is most definately a very major factor (it's how people using weak characters can still get by in tournies and such) it is undeniable that tiers have an effect (sometimes a big one) on the way the game works. Just to use 3S as an example ( and SS 4) if you have equally skilled players using Yun and Sean fighting each other in a serious setting, or Sougetsu and Jubei, the Sean and Jubei players are not going to win. Then again maybe Sougetsu is too extreme an example, as he's banned; perhaps I should have said Tam-Tam instead.
Via your statement, you are committing sort of the "cardinal mistake" of assuming that there aren't little tweaks like this going on in each revision OR that it takes a period of time to really get a definate feel on who is strong and who is weak. Saying the "character never changes" is, quite frankly, pretty ignorant in terms of how fighting games develop; by that logic, there would have been no differences between the myriad incarnations of Ryu from World Warrior to ST, or for that matter, in the 3S and Zero series, and even people who only play fighting games VERY casually could probably notice the severe differences between them. If you argue "only the players matter" people who put in a LOT of time in to a worthless character (I.E., Twelve) should still be able to get a lot of wins. Yamazaki is the only person to ever pull this off in 3S, and he eventually gave up because it really was pretty hopeless. I'm not saying don't use weaker charas, I tend to use lower-tier or mid-tier charas myself. I just recognize that they have definate weaknesses or bad (or in some cases, absolutely terrible) match-ups. Don't get me wrong, the player is really the "major factor" involved, which is why you have a lot of bad Chun-Lis and Kens or Sols and Kys; but if they are of equal skill to somebody using a weaker character (or somebody who is at a disadvantage fighting their character) the character's own strengths and weaknesses have a serious effect. To use another extreme example, even at low level play Kusare Gedou and Gaira are pretty much totally fucked if they ever fight Mina in ANY of the games which feature her. As for tiers changing while people are still learning the ins and outs of the game, well, that should be obvious. People are still LEARNING, they might not have a good feel of what to do about a new move or somebody's new "techniques". Back in the day, I used to just do the forward megafist in to Potemkin buster all the time even though I KNEW it was actually a crappy set-up, just because it would invariably work on people around here; once they got used to it and started to instant block and punish it, I stopped, because they got used to it. Or as perhaps a more simple example of somebody's tier "changing" while people are still experimenting with the game... what if somebody discovers a really easy infinate or 100% for "character X"? Even if they were low to begin with, they're definately going to go way up pretty quickly, especially if it has an easy setup to boot.
Looking back on this, it's pretty rambling and random, but I'm rather ill today and not thinking straight, and besides all that, I tend to ramble anyway. Hope it was at least somewhat clear. In the end, you can choose to "believe" in tiers or not, but if you go to play in a serious setting, you are going to encounter the reality of them. As Ishmael (and I myself always say), "The only balanced fighting game ever made is Karate Champ."
Also, to Time Mage: Yeah, Slayer has changed drastically; I know a Slayer player around here who is also lamenting the changes, but he seems to be sticking with him, which is good! I also personally kind of agree, I PREFER Slayer like this... Also know an Anji player whom I feel sorry for, now that Anji is really weak again. Losing all of those guard points really hurts him, ha ha ha. Speaking of which, is the range on his butterfly shorter now? I know the EX version is the old GGX version of it, but... Eh, I'll just ask Steve next time I see him.
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[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Mon 2 Jul 06:26] |
| Time Mage 2567th Post
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| "Re(5):Re(10):Smooth" , posted Mon 2 Jul 06:38
quote:
Also, to Time Mage: Yeah, Slayer has changed drastically; I know a Slayer player around here who is also lamenting the changes, but he seems to be sticking with him, which is good! I also personally kind of agree, I PREFER Slayer like this... Also know an Anji player whom I feel sorry for, now that Anji is really weak again. Losing all of those guard points really hurts him, ha ha ha. Speaking of which, is the range on his butterfly shorter now? I know the EX version is the old GGX version of it, but... Eh, I'll just ask Steve next time I see him.
Well, to tell the truth, one of the reasons I prefer Slayer this way is because my execution sucks big time, so the less combos/complicated things a character has, the better for me. I started using Slayer as a heavy hitter, with short, easy combos. My air combo for him has always been Kxx214S, instead of the myriad of hits everyone does. So, when people around here started using Slayer more effectively (that is, using all the crap I can't pull off either consistently or ever), I got behind them really fast, and couldn't use Slayer well enough to even have fun. After that, I started using Faust, by the way, whom I still use and have a blast playing, whether I win (not too common) or lose. But, now that Slayer is again played with less combos and more with big hits, I'm starting to use him again, although I'll probably still lose to the now expert Slayer players.
Also: You write a lot!
Dragon Kick your ass into the Milky Waaay~~ (Milky Waaaay)
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