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| Iron D 2718th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
     
|  "Re(5):WWE Superstar Chris Benoit found dead" , posted Wed 27 Jun 19:14
Variable, Catalyst, and Freeter: let me rephrase what I said. Benoit the person is a killer, but that does not diminish my repsect for Benoit the wrestler. Yes, it's the same person, but the fact that he killed his wife and son does not diminish his work in the ring.
I'd be lying if I could say that from now on when I watch a Benoit match I won't be saying: "man, this guy would go on to kill his wife and son," but he busted his ass in the ring, and in the end it's what he did in the ring that made me care about him at all. I feel for the families of the Benoits, and again, this guy was obviously f'ed up to do what he did, but I'll miss sane, wrestling god Benoit all the same. Yes, he killed two innocent people, but he is still one of the hardest working wrestlers the business had ever seen. I respect that aspect of him. Obviously I don't respect the killing of innocents.
And I could say this about anyone whose works I enjoy. If Shigeru Miyamato one day killed a kid, I'd still enjoy his games and would still call him a game designing genius.
Zelkin. Pimped.
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| Catalyst
232th Post
Frequent Customer
|  "Re(6):WWE Superstar Chris Benoit found dead" , posted Wed 27 Jun 22:13
quote:
Variable, Catalyst, and Freeter: let me rephrase what I said. Benoit the person is a killer, but that does not diminish my repsect for Benoit the wrestler. Yes, it's the same person, but the fact that he killed his wife and son does not diminish his work in the ring.
I'd be lying if I could say that from now on when I watch a Benoit match I won't be saying: "man, this guy would go on to kill his wife and son," but he busted his ass in the ring, and in the end it's what he did in the ring that made me care about him at all. I feel for the families of the Benoits, and again, this guy was obviously f'ed up to do what he did, but I'll miss sane, wrestling god Benoit all the same. Yes, he killed two innocent people, but he is still one of the hardest working wrestlers the business had ever seen. I respect that aspect of him. Obviously I don't respect the killing of innocents.
And I could say this about anyone whose works I enjoy. If Shigeru Miyamato one day killed a kid, I'd still enjoy his games and would still call him a game designing genius.
Well, thats fine I won't argue because of choice of different people and that is completely fine. I suppose I should reiterate as well because I personally still don't agree.
I find it insulting because with the praise a person gives for outstanding achievements in such and such field along with his professionalism outside of work towards us fans, then that event occurs, what should I think? Feels like a slap in the face after saying positive things then hearing that you know?
Honestly it feels like a double standard giving him a leg up just cause his hard work at his job.
Gackt - Returner
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| Iron D 2719th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):WWE Superstar Chris Benoit found dead" , posted Thu 28 Jun 10:03
quote:
Variable, Catalyst, and Freeter: let me rephrase what I said. Benoit the person is a killer, but that does not diminish my repsect for Benoit the wrestler. Yes, it's the same person, but the fact that he killed his wife and son does not diminish his work in the ring.
I'd be lying if I could say that from now on when I watch a Benoit match I won't be saying: "man, this guy would go on to kill his wife and son," but he busted his ass in the ring, and in the end it's what he did in the ring that made me care about him at all. I feel for the families of the Benoits, and again, this guy was obviously f'ed up to do what he did, but I'll miss sane, wrestling god Benoit all the same. Yes, he killed two innocent people, but he is still one of the hardest working wrestlers the business had ever seen. I respect that aspect of him. Obviously I don't respect the killing of innocents.
And I could say this about anyone whose works I enjoy. If Shigeru Miyamato one day killed a kid, I'd still enjoy his games and would still call him a game designing genius.
Well, thats fine I won't argue because of choice of different people and that is completely fine. I suppose I should reiterate as well because I personally still don't agree.
I find it insulting because with the praise a person gives for outstanding achievements in such and such field along with his professionalism outside of work towards us fans, then that event occurs, what should I think? Feels like a slap in the face after saying positive things then hearing that you know?
Honestly it feels like a double standard giving him a leg up just cause his hard work at his job.
I fail to see how I'm giving Benoit a "leg up". His killing his wife and son doesn't suddenly make him a crappy wrestler. Time didn't warp and suddenly all of his matches are utter crap. It's a simple concept: his work in the ring is good, no matter what he did outside the ring.
How is that giving him a leg up? If he were alive, but had still killed his wife and kid, I'd say he should be punished to the full extent of the law. His work in the ring wouldn't condone his actions.
I could give another example: Hitler. One of the worst human beings that ever lived. Responsible for the lives of millions. But if one were to say that Hitler wasn't charismatic and a great speaker, they'd be lying. He was charismatic and a great speaker, which is how he came to power in the first place. Doesn't make him any less of a twisted piece of crap, but the fact remains: he was good at what he did.
Zelkin. Pimped.
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| Undead Fred 2880th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):WWE Superstar Chris Benoit found dead" , posted Thu 28 Jun 11:04
quote:
I could give another example: Hitler. One of the worst human beings that ever lived. Responsible for the lives of millions. But if one were to say that Hitler wasn't charismatic and a great speaker, they'd be lying. He was charismatic and a great speaker, which is how he came to power in the first place. Doesn't make him any less of a twisted piece of crap, but the fact remains: he was good at what he did.
Heh heh. I opened this thread up to see what was going on in it, and as I read, somehow I knew Michael Richards and Hitler were gonna come up.
I think the issue people are having was that you were basically saying, "Yeah, yeah, he killed a baby and some girl, but he did a really great job pretending to fight someone on TV." Bodybuilding is hard work, and wrestlers do have to exert themselves in front of an audience, so I'm not saying they don't work hard. But come on, man... he killed his wife, their child, and then himself. Just seems like that kind of thing would affect fans' respect for him.
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| Catalyst
233th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(8):WWE Superstar Chris Benoit found dead" , posted Thu 28 Jun 12:57
quote:
Variable, Catalyst, and Freeter: let me rephrase what I said. Benoit the person is a killer, but that does not diminish my repsect for Benoit the wrestler. Yes, it's the same person, but the fact that he killed his wife and son does not diminish his work in the ring.
I'd be lying if I could say that from now on when I watch a Benoit match I won't be saying: "man, this guy would go on to kill his wife and son," but he busted his ass in the ring, and in the end it's what he did in the ring that made me care about him at all. I feel for the families of the Benoits, and again, this guy was obviously f'ed up to do what he did, but I'll miss sane, wrestling god Benoit all the same. Yes, he killed two innocent people, but he is still one of the hardest working wrestlers the business had ever seen. I respect that aspect of him. Obviously I don't respect the killing of innocents.
And I could say this about anyone whose works I enjoy. If Shigeru Miyamato one day killed a kid, I'd still enjoy his games and would still call him a game designing genius.
Well, thats fine I won't argue because of choice of different people and that is completely fine. I suppose I should reiterate as well because I personally still don't agree.
I find it insulting because with the praise a person gives for outstanding achievements in such and such field along with his professionalism outside of work towards us fans, then that event occurs, what should I think? Feels like a slap in the face after saying positive things then hearing that you know?
Honestly it feels like a double standard giving him a leg up just cause his hard work at his job.
I fail to see how I'm giving Benoit a "leg up". His killing his wife and son doesn't suddenly make him a crappy wrestler. Time didn't warp and suddenly all of his matches are utter crap. It's a simple concept: his work in the ring is good, no matter what he did outside the ring.
How is that giving him a leg up? If he were alive, but had still killed his wife and kid, I'd say he should be punished to the full extent of the law. His work in the ring wouldn't condone his actions.
I could give another example: Hitler. One of the worst human beings that ever lived. Responsible for the lives of millions. But if one were to say that Hitler wasn't charismatic and a great speaker, they'd be lying. He was charismatic and a great speaker, which is how he came to power in the first place. Doesn't make him any less of a twisted piece of crap, but the fact remains: he was good at what he did.
I suppose I wasn't clear enough but what I meant as in leg up as in his wrestling background
supersedes his current actions taking place.
I do apologize if you did take offense to that from the tone your giving off. I look at it this way and its my opinion of course, you could do so many great things but the moment you pull something illogical as that? What does it matter if I could do 1000 squats or lift someone 50 times bigger than me. I'm still a blatant idiot for doing what I just did and that will stand. Just like now matter of fact with peeving you off and coming off as an asshat! haha!
Again I do apologize if I offended you for wrong choice of words for unclear speaking.
quote:
I think the issue people are having was that you were basically saying, "Yeah, yeah, he killed a baby and some girl, but he did a really great job pretending to fight someone on TV." Bodybuilding is hard work, and wrestlers do have to exert themselves in front of an audience, so I'm not saying they don't work hard. But come on, man... he killed his wife, their child, and then himself. Just seems like that kind of thing would affect fans' respect for him.
Fred just put it best right there. 
Gackt - Returner
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| Iron D 2721th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):WWE Superstar Chris Benoit found dead" , posted Thu 28 Jun 23:16:
quote:
I think the issue people are having was that you were basically saying, "Yeah, yeah, he killed a baby and some girl, but he did a really great job pretending to fight someone on TV." Bodybuilding is hard work, and wrestlers do have to exert themselves in front of an audience, so I'm not saying they don't work hard. But come on, man... he killed his wife, their child, and then himself. Just seems like that kind of thing would affect fans' respect for him.
So what I'm getting here is that some of the members here think I'm making light of Benoit being a murderer just because I'm stating that he was a great wrestler, murderer or not? That's not the case.
My saying that "he's a murderer, but he still put on some of the best matches I've ever seen" is not making light of his being a murderer. BENOIT IS A MURDERER! I know it as well as anyone else does. I'm not ignoring or making light of that fact.
What I am saying is that Benoit still was behind some of my favorite moments in wrestling. And yes, my opinion of him IS affected by his being a murderer. I don't respect him as a human being like I used to, and whenever I see a Benoit match from now on I'll have the fact that the man performing in the ring would eventually kill his family in the back of my head. My admitting that he was still a good wrestler has nothing to do with my opinion on his being a murderer.
Basically, one of the greatest wrestlers ever turned out to be a murderer at the end of his life, and that sucks.
Oh, and to Catalyst, no need to apologize. I thought we were debating, not arguing. I'm not angry here and I'm sorry if I came off that way. I'm simply trying to get my point across.
Er.....
[this message was edited by Iron D on Thu 28 Jun 23:21] |
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