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| ecchi
160th Post
 
Regular Customer
   
|  "Re(6):Transformers f00z" , posted Thu 5 Jul 03:24
I was already disappointed by the trailers, so I had my expectations set really low for the film. Then when I saw it, I was amazed at how it managed to go even lower. The robot designs are dreadful, and their transformations are so ridiculously complex that it's not even fun to watch them. The action sequences are shaky, blurry, and so closely shot to the point that I can't tell what I'm looking at. Too much attention is spent on Sam's trials when it should be focused on the battle between the Autobots and the Decepticons. As said before, the Transformers hardly get enough screen time to flesh their characters out so that they appear quasi-intelligent. Is anyone else bothered that this film is loaded with advertising, propaganda, and references to current events? I can go on and on about my frustration with the movie, but the bottom line is that, in my opinion, the filmmakers brutally raped the franchise for the big screen, and has left this fan of G1 (and the original movie) scarred.
GAME OVER?? But I beat the game!
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| shindekudasai
143th Post
Regular Customer
| "Massive Rant" , posted Thu 5 Jul 03:36
Lifted straight from my blog: Version w/ pictures
Well, just saw Michael Bay's Transformers. My take on the flick? Short version: If you don't know anything about Transformers, you'll love it. If you're a fan ... tread lightly. Long version:
Optimus Prime
Optimus is the highlight of the film, firmly depicting all of its strengths and flaws. While the most faithful to his original character, there are still several discrepancies that are hard to overlook. First and foremost: lips. OPTIMUS DOES NOT HAVE LIPS! The movie version has a 'battle mask' that pays homage to his original appearance, however this only appears in about 10% of the film. While this Optimus is compassionate towards humans like his G1 namesake, he still stands as a pale shadow of the true Prime. After Bumblebee is captured by Section 7, Op' is ready to leave him behind for the sake of 'the mission'. This is an action that the original Optimus would not only never take, but would condemn! Optimus has been portrayed as the kind of leader who ALWAYS put the lives of others before his own, be it human or Cybertronian. In the '86 movie, Prime sacrifices his life in a final battle with Megatron for the sake of all the Autobots on earth. '07 Prime echoes this selflessness in his final battle by ordering Sam to insert the Allspark into his chest (which would destroy both him and the Allspark) but it took him half the movie to get there. Optimus' saving grace in the film is an outstanding performance by Peter Cullen, Op's original voice actor in the 80's animated series. There are several lines in the '07 movie that reflect his speech in the original ("Autobots, roll out!", "...One shall stand, one shall fall.", "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.") However I was very dissapointed to hear Optimus spewing Earth slang (As Optimus crushes the fountain in Sam's yard: "My bad".)
Bumblebee
The smallest of the '84 lineup, Bumblebee was the most fuel efficient Autobot and head of espionage. Bumblebee's original role in the 80's series was the 'little guy' who made it easy for humans to relate to the giant robots (and vice-versa), constantly hanging out with Spike Witwicky, the Autobots young human friend, and always learning about the earth and out culture. '07 Bumblebee comes close in this regard but his effectiveness is crippled due to his lack of a voice until the last 10 minutes of the film. Another discrepancy is his altmode. Originally a Volkswagon Beetle, Bumblebee has been changed into a Camaro for the new flick. However, I can't blame this one on Bay, as the fault lies entirely with Volkswagon. For several years, Hasbro has attempted to re-liscence the Beetle so as to reintroduce 'Bee to the Transformers mythos, but Volkswagon (a company that assisted in production of tanks for Nazi Germany) has decided that they don't want their vehicles associated with "war machines" and has asked Hasbro to never approach them again. I got a little chuckle when BB pulled up next to a yellow bug at the car lot.
Ironhide
"Leakin' lubricant!" VERY dissapointed with his portrayal in the new film. Ironhide was the Autobot security director in the '80s show, as well as the oldest of the '84 lineup. Bay has transformed him into a brash, trigger-happy weapons specialist who would seemingly fit in better with the Decepticons than the 'Bots! He second guessed Optimus at every available opportunity, whereas the original 'Hide was Optimus' right-hand man. Ironhide was one of my favorite characters in the real TF show, and it's really a shame to see him wind up this way.
Ratchet
Poor Ratchet. His first appearance in the cartoon was actually quite similar to his role in the movie: an Autobot medic with almost zero characterization. There really isn't much to say about his appearance in the film. He shows up, has about 10 throwaway lines, Transforms, and shoots guns. We really don't see much of his medic function until the end of the film and even that's not saying much ("We can't save him"). Bay passed up a golden opportunity however to lift some of his character from the G1 comics, where Ratchet was a focal character for much of the first story arc. When all the Autobots were incapacitated by Shockwave, Ratchet was forced to learn the ways of the warrior, a path that conflicted with his natural function as a healer. This gave him much more drama and personality, and it's a shame that we didn't get even a small glimpse of his personal struggle in the film, where he happily follows orders and just hangs around until the fight scenes. Ratchet is also cursed with the ugliest altmode I've ever seen.
Jazz
Jazz was treated very roughly by the new film. As with the rest of the Autobots, his personality was seriously out of whack. The original Jazz was one of the only Autobots who not only didn't mind being stranded on Earth - he loved it! He was very interested in human art, philosophy, and most especially music, often remaining in his car form just to listen to the radio. '07 Jazz is simply another soldier in Optimus' ranks. He fights valiantly until the end, however, even going as far as to take on Megatron by himself. Unfortunately, this culminates in his being ripped in twain by Megatron. Perhaps this is meant to pay homage to Scatman Crothers, Jazz's original voice actor, and the first among those 80's VAs to pass away. I do wish that they had given him a little more screen time, though, as well as some meaningful conversation with the humans, so that the audience feels even a little remorse after his heroic death. But as it stands, it's an emotionless scene and nobody really cares besides his fellow Autobots, though this may be the only example of Ratchet's being a medic.
Sam Witwicky
Sam is a tribute to the Autobots' human companion, Spike Witwicky, and shares many similarities with the character despite the name change. He is courageous, loyal, and devoted to the Autobots' mission. Sam, is a bit of a smartass, but never fails to entertain. As in the original series, he bonds with Bumblebee. His love interest Mikaela bears absolutely no resemblance to Spike's girl, Carly ... not that I expected her to.
Megatron
Most feared of all Decepticons, movie Megs lived up to his role as the big badass that fucks up anything in his way. Megs was portrayed very differently in various versions of the Transformers story. The G1 comics cast him as a very unstable, mad dictator who often let his emotions get in the way of his conquests. The '80s cartoon Megatron was more sane, but often seemed to be more bumbling due to the camp factor in the show. The recent Megatron: Origins book reveals his humble construction worker beginnings, and shows us a more honorable Megatron devoted to lifting his fellow Decepticons out of oppression. Movie Megs seems to have the personality of the 'toon and the ruthlessness of the comic. His new altmode is that of a Cybertronian jet (how boring!) as opposed to the original's Walther P-38 handgun. Although I can see why they changed the altmode, there was really no reason to take away his signature Fusion Cannon (one of the most powerful weapons in the TF mythos) as it really added to his intimidation factor. Another qualm: Megs' 80's VA Frank Welker, a legend in animated voice acting, auditioned for the part in the movie as was turned down in favor of Hugo Weaving. Thankfully, the makers of the new TF games have realized that this is a grave injustice and have requested Welker's performance in TF for Wii, PS3, and 360.
Starscream
Movie Screamer was just sad. Throughout several incarnations in various Tranformers media, Starscream was always a treacherous schemer poised to topple Megatron's reign over the Decpticons and a fearsome warrior in his own right. Movie SS is a lackey with almost no characterization besides rallying the 'Cons on earth with a "All hail Megatron". He kicks ass in his last fight scene, transforming back and forth several times and shooting down army planes like fish in a bucket, but he could have been so much more.
Scorponok
LAME. Scorponok had no lines and never even Transformed! Wounded by humans within the first hour of the movie, he dissappears into the sands of the desert and is quickly forgotten about. The first Scorponok was the leader of a rogue faction of Decepticons who shared a symbiotic relationship with Lord Zarak, a human who transformed into Scorp's head. Movie Scorp is closer in appearance to the Scorponok from Beast Wars, but since we never get inside his head, we don't get to know anything about his persona. Waste of a space.
Frenzy
Frenzy is a trip! Probably one of the best parts of the movie, perfectly demonstrating how the Decepticons infiltrate and destroy. You can't be fooled by his size, he's both deadly and resilient! Frenzy's first altmode in the movie, a stereo, is a homage to the altmode of Soundwave in the original series. Soundwave was the 'Cons espionage expert and communications officer, who transformed into a boombox. His true claim to fame, however, was his personal army who all transformed into cassettes and could be stored within the toy. Frenzy shares his namesake's knack for causing chaos, and brings right to mind the original's catchphrase: "Sow panic, and surrender will bloom."
Decepticons
Barricade, Bonecrusher, Devestator, Blackout
They sure don't build 'em like they used to. These Decep's certainly had the fear factor going for them, but when push came to shove they folded like houses of cards. Blackout was taken out by a human, Bonecrusher didn't last five minutes against Prime. I don't even remember seeing Barricade bite it. They just all seemed very sloppily thrown into the movie as cannon fodder for the 'Bots, only seeming truly terrifying when juxtaposed with humans. And Barricade has my personal enmity because without him occupying the essential 'cop car' role, we could have had one of my favorite Autobots, Prowl. Devestator was a marked step-down from the G1 version, the first Gestalt Transformer (a giant robot composed of 6 individuals who combined), who was regarded as the most powerful of the first generation 'Cons.
The Allspark
'The Cube' as a concept is a mishmash of various elements of the TF story, including Energon Cubes (earth's natural resources refined into fuel for the Transformers), the Matrix of Leadership (a major plot point in the original movie), and 'The Spark' (the robot equivalent of a soul). The Allspark is the impetus of the Transformers' journey to earth in this version of the story. As the ultimate kick in the balls, the Allspark is used by Sam to destroy Megatron.
Well I've bitched about the characters long enough, so how about some technical analysis? The cinematography was standard for a Bay film, filled to the brim with 'exciting' shots that really grip you by the short and curlies and yank hard. My one complaint is that it's really hard to see what's going on in any of the action scenes. Without the option of slow-mo in the theatre, Optimus and Megatron's final fight is essentially a big messy blur. The film score was decent, not horrible but nowhere close to the splendor that was Vince DiCola's '86 TFTM score. "The Death of Optimus Prime" theme still resounds in my head after all these years with the same emotional intensity it did back then. I can't say the same for any song in the new film. My final complaint is the length of the movie. There was at least an hour of 'fluff' scenes that were simply not required for the movie to have any cohesion, including the Autobots destroying Sam's yard and the flight attendant adhering to the 10-second rule while fetching ding-dongs for the President. This movie did NOT need to be 3 hours. The original TFTM had a cast four to five times as large, characterized them all, and managed to do it in 90 minutes. Yeah, it's not quite as pretty as TF'07, but it was much more epic and enjoyable. In fact, that pretty much sums up the new flick: Lots of flash, little substance. It's 3 in the morning and I'm tired out, so I'll finish this with a warning to the true fans like myself who are going into this movie with high expectations. In the words of Simon Furman: "This isn't your father's Autobot."
Last minute edit, just to clarify ... if viewed from outside the box as just 'the next big flick', yeah, it's a decent movie. But in the eyes of someone who grew up with Transformers like me, it's a bittersweet symphony. Pound for pound, for every one awesome homage there are three slaps in the face. Watching this was really like having the sweetest kiss and then having your tongue bitten off. Thanks, Bay, for taking a big, steaming crap all over my childhood.
Wither Blister Burn + Peel
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| Red Falcon 5845th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
     
     
     
 
| "Re(9):Transformers f00z" , posted Thu 5 Jul 05:59:
Whoa whoa, everyone calm down, people. I know it's a bit hypocritical of me considering some of my past offenses, but when we want to argue, we don't need to start calling each other morons or saying "fuck" (despite mine having done so frequently... but hey, I realize it wasn't constructive.) Just remember that it's sort of a Hollywood by-law that any film based off of a license like this has to be stripped of whatever made it charming or entertaining in the first place to make it mass-marketable. I think Hollywood would be better off if they could just leave things some people treasure like this well enough alone and just make up some original films. From what I hear, with a little bit of tweaking, this movie could easily have had no relation to the Transformers. I don't know much about Transformers, but I keep getting the impression this is a lot like how I felt about the American "Godzilla", still one of my favourite examples of somebody trying to market something off of the name only while completely ignoring any of the "heritage" it had. In the end, it kind of comes down to creativity and name recognition; Hollywood is so devoid of original ideas at this point they pick up random franchises and license them so as to get a bit of free advertisement simply from name recognition; then they proceed to "re-imagine" (words you never want to hear) it from the ground up so as to try and make it appeal to the lowest common denominator (I.E., people like John Candy and Joe Flaherty's characters I have previously mentioned in an earlier post.)
I like this review , he captures why I thought it was stupid and bad without really relating to the transformers (there are plenty of giant robots I love, but the Transformers have just never been on the list.) Oh, two things I disagree with in that review, I DO like seeing giant robots beat each other up, and I don't think this was the "worst" Michael Bay film, I actually found mild enjoyment in it, whereas I totally hate Armageddon. On another note, the Chipmunk movie poster in the Street Fighter film thread has made me have a religious revelation; I've always been against religions on principle, but the existence of such an abomination proves to me, once and for all, that the universe is governed by Lovecraftian beings who delight in our suffering. It's easily the worst thing I've seen all day, much worse than this incident.I suppose I should go and join some death cult now.
 Best site EVER:Link Here
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Thu 5 Jul 06:27] |
| Undead Fred 2889th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):Transformers f00z" , posted Thu 5 Jul 15:04
quote:
Just remember that it's sort of a Hollywood by-law that any film based off of a license like this has to be stripped of whatever made it charming or entertaining in the first place to make it mass-marketable. I think Hollywood would be better off if they could just leave things some people treasure like this well enough alone and just make up some original films. From what I hear, with a little bit of tweaking, this movie could easily have had no relation to the Transformers. I don't know much about Transformers, but I keep getting the impression this is a lot like how I felt about the American "Godzilla", still one of my favourite examples of somebody trying to market something off of the name only while completely ignoring any of the "heritage" it had. In the end, it kind of comes down to creativity and name recognition; Hollywood is so devoid of original ideas at this point they pick up random franchises and license them so as to get a bit of free advertisement simply from name recognition; then they proceed to "re-imagine" (words you never want to hear) it from the ground up so as to try and make it appeal to the lowest common denominator (I.E., people like John Candy and Joe Flaherty's characters I have previously mentioned in an earlier post.)
This is the standard formula. Hollywood execs, like a fussy eight-year-old, just whines "But that's TOOOOO HAAAAAARRRRRRD" in response and goes back to their remakes and sequels. The formula goes like this: "re-imagine" the source material to the point that it bears only a passing resemblance to the original then use its name, throw in a stupid cameo or a quickie reference to pretend that the movie's aware of its source material (the "bioforce gun" in Doom, naming a store in the background "Gaylen Ross" in the Dawn of the Dead re-make, etc.), throw in superficial product placement so that stupid people don't realize they're being advertised to and sew the whole thing up into a mess people will waste money on and forget in a year. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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| crazymike 1338th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Re(10):Transformers f00z" , posted Fri 6 Jul 01:11
I actually cannot blame Hollywood for pandering to doing infinite sequels and remakes.
Film studios exist to make money and they need to make a profit if they wish to make more movies. Unfortunately people in mass droves just don't go to see GOOD films like Letters from Iwo Jima or The Last King of Scotland. It is not that good film scripts are not out there, they just don't get bought because the execs know it is not worth the money to make them.
And truth be known, all of us here as fans of video games, anime, and comic books, can we really bitch about the state of Hollywood? We are just as guilty for taking the industry bait as dumb teenagers are for seeing The Fast and the Furious.
I've found that you have to enjoy the film on its overall merit, nitpicking will get you nowhere. I still bitch to this day about Spider-Man having organic webbing in the movie, but you know what, the overall plot, acting, music score, all of that trumps those minute details. I am not going to trash a whole movie just because some minor details get changed.
That is why I liked Transformers. Sure stuff may have been changed and it may have picked apart the various series into a new incarnation, but sitting in the theater it made me feel like a kid again, and when I was a kid watching Transformers I was too young to know all the details about whether Optimus Prime should have a mouth or BumbleBee should be a Volkswagen anyway.
How many fanboys learn these details years later after they were first introduced to the series?
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| Undead Fred 2890th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Transformers f00z" , posted Fri 6 Jul 02:50
quote:
I actually cannot blame Hollywood for pandering to doing infinite sequels and remakes.
Film studios exist to make money and they need to make a profit if they wish to make more movies. Unfortunately people in mass droves just don't go to see GOOD films like Letters from Iwo Jima or The Last King of Scotland. It is not that good film scripts are not out there, they just don't get bought because the execs know it is not worth the money to make them.
And truth be known, all of us here as fans of video games, anime, and comic books, can we really bitch about the state of Hollywood? We are just as guilty for taking the industry bait as dumb teenagers are for seeing The Fast and the Furious.
I've found that you have to enjoy the film on its overall merit, nitpicking will get you nowhere. I still bitch to this day about Spider-Man having organic webbing in the movie, but you know what, the overall plot, acting, music score, all of that trumps those minute details. I am not going to trash a whole movie just because some minor details get changed.
That is why I liked Transformers. Sure stuff may have been changed and it may have picked apart the various series into a new incarnation, but sitting in the theater it made me feel like a kid again, and when I was a kid watching Transformers I was too young to know all the details about whether Optimus Prime should have a mouth or BumbleBee should be a Volkswagen anyway.
How many fanboys learn these details years later after they were first introduced to the series?
I don't have a problem with minor changes... in fact, I like them as long as they're minor (so you get thrown off a little). I wasn't screaming "MARV DOESNT PULL THE BARS OFF, HE KICKS THE DOOR DOWN!!" when I watched Sin City. Organic webbing in Spider-Man? Sounds great, makes more sense than little devices on his arms. What we're talking about here is getting the spirit of the movie wrong or just horrible storytelling or other aspects of the movie's execution. I wasn't complaining that Optimus had a visible mouth. I didn't like it at all since it just looked funny, but I could deal with it since it wasn't really affecting the story. What was obnoxious in Transformers was the grating super-close-up-what-the-fuck-is-happening-in-this-shot "action" sequences and retarded pseudo comedy crap. And the way that the TransFormers looked like twisted masses of barbed wire rolled in M&M's didn't help, either.
I complain so much about movies like that because they're steadily lowering the bar of what people will watch until it really does reach Idiocracy's Ass level of movie-making. Movies like this come out, and it either sets or continues a precedent- less thought, more explosions, faster editing. The movie makes money, so studios believe those decisions were good ideas and shorten the cuts, add more explosions, and dumb down the story even more. That's when you wind up with ADD monsters like this. After reading that review Rugal linked to, I'm glad I wasn't the only one left tired and confused with those eye-gouging action sequences.
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| Red Falcon 5848th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Transformers f00z" , posted Fri 6 Jul 02:55:
Indeed. Just because I'm a fan of one medium doesn't mean I have to accept something that is bad in another medium (hell, I generally don't accept what I consider "crap" in ANYTHING I like, you don't see me on here raving about GTA games, now do you? Normally I don't even bother to criticize things I think are bad, I just ignore them, which is why I never posted in the MK thread, it's only when I feel very strongly about something that I bother, and it so happens that the state of cinema today is something I feel strongly about.) I do enjoy a lot of bad films, but for different reasons, and this isn't the kind of bad film I enjoy. If you genuinely enjoy it, go right ahead and like it, I'm not trying to take that away from you. I just was explaining why I thought it was a standard summer trash film. I seriously suggest you read that review I linked to. He's considerably more harsh than I would be, but he pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole situation.
As a side note, the kind of "comedy" that is featured in Transformers is the kind of "comedy" that immediately gets on my nerves in any type of film.
Best site EVER:Link Here
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Fri 6 Jul 03:07] |
| shindekudasai
145th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(2):Massive Rant" , posted Tue 10 Jul 16:37
quote:
Wait, what? Sounds like Megatron: Origins might have been further from the cartoon than the Bay movie.
The line of Transformers comics from IDW is a whole new take on G1, and I have had a few issues with that as well. However the highlight is their "Transformers: Spotlight" series which gets inside the head of a different bot every issue. So far Shockwave, Hot Rod, Soundwave, Ultra Magnus, Sixshot, Kup, and Galvatron have all had their own one-shots, and all have been incredible. Despite not being firmly entrenched in G1 continuity, the bots act and speak the way they're supposed to (No "What's crackin' little bitches?" here) and it makes me feel like I'm reading about *my* Transformers instead of the movie characters such as Ironhide-In-Name-Only. Megatron's spotlight is a 4-issue origin story that sheds light on his history. My description isn't the best, but at least give the comic a shot. You'll feel more 'at home' than with the flick. Besides, we finally get a full-body shot of Sentinel Prime and he is BADASS. And for everyone scratching your head right now, the G1 comics gave names to the leaders preceding Optimus (Prima, Prime Nova, Sentinel Prime) as opposed to the animated series' succession of 20 or so ID-less 'Primes' who held the Matrix before Alpha Trion gave it to OP.
Wither Blister Burn + Peel
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| Cain Highwind 766th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(8):Transformers f00z" , posted Wed 11 Jul 16:21
quote:
in my opinion, the filmmakers brutally raped the franchise for the big screen, and has left this fan of G1 (and the original movie) scarred.
Get over yourself.
I was going to write something witty or insightful about why you're overreacting, but then I decided, why the hell should I give morons like you even that kind of time.
Silly fanboys and their reality-distortion fields.
Don't fret, I've got this. Describes those fans perfectly.
But yeah, I was never a hardcore Transfan, but watching it with my sister and her boyfriend, we had a blast. I agree that those extra subplots really made the movie drag, but the action was great (but a little too hard to see as it's been said.
I really thought for such a far out concept, they really made it "believable" as a live action film. I for one loved the new designs, that and with some good, funny moments, I really liked this movie.
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| shindekudasai
147th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(6):Massive Rant" , posted Fri 13 Jul 02:59
quote:
Agreed that Kup's was the best of the bunch! I also really liked Hot Rod's spotlight. Y'know, all this talk about the comics has me wondering ... why wasn't Simon Furman involved with the movie?
...and then I remember, because he would have killed off all the Transformers!
He's credited as a writing consultant according to IMDb. Too bad he couldn't get the chance to kill the Transformers off. Then there'd be no room for abominable sequels...oh wait, they've already planned to do two more.
Now I'm eager to check out the Transformers comics. Anyone have recommendations of what series to look into besides the aforementioned "Transformers: Spotlight" series?
Start with the old G1 comics from Marvel. It's a lot grittier than the cartoon despite sometimes having the same outlandish wacko situations (Robot Master or Carwash of Doom, anyone?). Eventually Marvel started reprinting these comics in the UK, along with more filler and backup stories (the U.S. series lasted 80 issues and the UK had somewhere around 200). This version of the story was given new life in the Transformers: Generation 2 series despite being riddled with typical 90's ultraviolence. G2 is linked with the Beast Wars show as well.
Also, Dreamwave's 1st 6-issue Transformers revival was great, though I wasn't as fond of the following issues which basically just regurgitated the '86 movie into the modern era.
IDW's new monthly series is cool, but it's paced too slow and the humans suck. There's more of a espionage/conspiracy feel to the book.
Finally, look into the various Botcon/OTFCC exlusive stories. A bit more info here: http://www.bwtf.com/cbreviews/botcon/ and here: http://www.bwtf.com/timelines/
Wither Blister Burn + Peel
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"Re(1):Transformers f00z" , posted Wed 4 Jul 08:42:
"Re(1):SUSHINGADA NECROMANCY" , posted Tue 24 Jul 13:12
