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| Maou 1311th Post
 
Red Carpet Executive Member
   
    
    
    
|  "Re(1):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Sun 16 Dec 13:23
quote:
I'm extremely curious about the battle system for FFXIII, it could really move the genre forward.
On the other hand, I'm extremely curious about the character design and director, they could really move the series backward. Heheh, but you're right, the system could be its redeeming feature to a world gone madly awry.
Speaking of that, remember when the world got ripped in half in VI? Final Fantasy/Square are now in that second phase, I would say. Cid is about to choke and die on rotten fish, and I'm about to jump off the proverbial cliff as Celes. Maybe FF Spirits Within was the 3 god statues that ruined the world? Hmmm... So where is our last fragment of hope? Is it XIII's battle system?
But seriously, a game "directed" by the guy who contributed his "talents" to X-2? Combine that will Nomura's creeping, destructive artistic control, and I think it's all over. I hope MistWalker can publish on systems that sell more than 10 units a month in Japan (which is to say, not the Xbox).
"And have you found your joy? In this nearly-dead world of ours?"
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| KTallguy 969th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Sun 16 Dec 19:46:
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If they really wanted to shock the genre they would remove the standard hero/heroine with a sword and have guns only because it starts to become silly.
The only recent RPG I can think of with a female main character is Xenosaga. That's something. Also I think that a return to a more bright, futuristic world like FF8 isn't a horrible thing.
quote:
But seriously, a game "directed" by the guy who contributed his "talents" to X-2? Combine that will Nomura's creeping, destructive artistic control, and I think it's all over. I hope MistWalker can publish on systems that sell more than 10 units a month in Japan (which is to say, not the Xbox).
X-2 had an excellent battle system. Really fun to play. Too bad the characters and world were total shit, but the whole game was designed from the beginning to be a schlock parody anyway. I think they're setting loftier goals with this title.
I agree that Nomura's art style can be a bit much, but a female lead with a cape isn't something that has been done before either. I think that it's a bit more original than his previous works.
After clearing Crisis Core, which has one of the best RPG systems I've played in years, I have hope for these two games. Are the designs really so unappealing? Or is it just cool to hate on things now? I'm being totally serious.
I wouldn't like to see every Final Fantasy from here on out in this style, but if every numbered FF switched from Medieval to Futuristic with some twists, it would be good enough for me, personally.
Play to win.
[this message was edited by KTallguy on Sun 16 Dec 19:47] |
| Iggy 8282th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
 
| "Re(3):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Sun 16 Dec 20:04
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X-2 had an excellent battle system. Really fun to play. Too bad the characters and world were total shit, but the whole game was designed from the beginning to be a schlock parody anyway.
I agree. I couldn't stand FFX2 for more than a few hours, but the battles and the level up system were fun, and I also think this is one of the best uses of the job system (like, some classes like mages or dancers can't attack because they aren't supposed to do it, even for 3 damage points).
Also, punch me in the face if you want, but I rather like the time stop thing she does in the video. It might be they are taking lessons from the excellent battle system of FFXII instead of just writing it off as I feared.
Also, lesbian robotic Shiva = GOOD.
Finally, the only thing I didn't like was the general attitude of the heroin (please make her not another Cloud/Squall emofag), and the arrival of the blonde guy at the end to save the day (?).
But since he looks like a man and not an ambiguous 14 years old, hopes are he's not going to steal the game from the heroin. A serious game with a female main character is always a good thing to look forward to.
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| Maou 1314th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Mon 17 Dec 02:10:
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After clearing Crisis Core, which has one of the best RPG systems I've played in years, I have hope for these two games. Are the designs really so unappealing? Or is it just cool to hate on things now? I'm being totally serious.
Not at all, and I'm sorry to rain on your Crisis Core and XIII parade all the time, man! It's really just despair at what I see as the shallowing out of Final Fantasy under Nomura.
I should make clear that I actually enjoy Gackt's stuff, that Final Fantasy VIII is my favorite Final Fantasy after VI, and it surely has the most sophisticated world and character designs Nomura's ever done. I love the adult-looking characters, the general lack of reliance on simple caricatured features (the Nomura arm braces and uneven sleeves/shorts are blessedly absent), and the completely unusual and compelling futuristic worldview.
So what's the problem? It's this creeping sense of visual tropes over substance in much more recent years. Nomura's obsession with visual kei and Gackt is actually a serious liability (a Gackt stand-in character in Genesis sealed the deal). While all of Gackt's feather and flying imagery, along with Nomura's angels and capes and swords, are "cool," it can get rather pedestrian after a while. In short, the brooding imagery and awesome hair and feather imagery are fun and effective in a Gackt song, but it simply isn't deep enough to drive a major storytelling project like an RPG.
I think it's a similar symptom to the new Star Wars movies or something. Yes, light sabre battles are "cool," but in these new movies they had no underlying thematic substance; you're left with just visual cliches that are "awesome" but not actually artistically unique or interesting.
So in the end what I see is an RPG series that I actually enjoy almost every chapter of, from IV to XII, being reduced to the lowest common denominator of cool hair and tired angel feather imagery. This is stuff which was cool when it appeared just once in the original Final Fantasy VII (a middling Final Fantasy but an excellent game), but ad infinim it reeks of animation cliches. The wince-inducing dialogue of Crisis Core, the overfamiliar visual technique of cutting from a person dying to the person they care about suddenly realizing it (Aerith in church), the crass flying Dragon Ball cinemas...something is seriously wrong.
...
Meanwhile, though, I'm excited to hear that the actual game systems are great, don't get me wrong! I just don't know if they're enough to fill the gap where much more compelling narratives and visual direction once existed, in my opinion, in Final Fantasy.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 17 Dec 02:17] |
| KTallguy 969th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(4):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Mon 17 Dec 04:18
quote:
Not at all, and I'm sorry to rain on your Crisis Core and XIII parade all the time, man! It's really just despair at what I see as the shallowing out of Final Fantasy under Nomura.
Don't worry about raining on my parade or anything :)
quote:
So what's the problem? It's this creeping sense of visual tropes over substance in much more recent years. Nomura's obsession with visual kei and Gackt is actually a serious liability (a Gackt stand-in character in Genesis sealed the deal). While all of Gackt's feather and flying imagery, along with Nomura's angels and capes and swords, are "cool," it can get rather pedestrian after a while. In short, the brooding imagery and awesome hair and feather imagery are fun and effective in a Gackt song, but it simply isn't deep enough to drive a major storytelling project like an RPG.
I agree with that point. I do think that the Gackt character in CC is a bit overdone at points. But the core story with Aerith, Zack, Anjiru and Cloud, and the way it ended was really well done, I thought. The wings and all that stuff will hopefully be confined to FF7 though. The ending was excellent, in my opinion.
quote:
So in the end what I see is an RPG series that I actually enjoy almost every chapter of, from IV to XII, being reduced to the lowest common denominator of cool hair and tired angel feather imagery. This is stuff which was cool when it appeared just once in the original Final Fantasy VII (a middling Final Fantasy but an excellent game), but ad infinim it reeks of animation cliches. The wince-inducing dialogue of Crisis Core, the overfamiliar visual technique of cutting from a person dying to the person they care about suddenly realizing it (Aerith in church), the crass flying Dragon Ball cinemas...something is seriously wrong.
I totally see where you're coming from. I guess I don't really watch enough anime to pick up on the cliches in the game. I enjoyed the game for what it was, and the over the top combat sequences didn't feel too out of place when compared with FF7, or even FF8. The one battle between Sepiroth, Angiru and Genesis was super over the top and awesome, but other than that, those kinds of animations were mainly found in boss battles, and they didn't seem too out there to me. Then I think of FF12's "limit breaks" and I remember how weirdly over the top, but uninspiring they were, because they really had nothing to do with the character.
FF12 was awesome but it was cut from a completely different cloth. If I could have it my way, I would want every other FF to cycle between a more old school type, and a more new school type.
Anyway, I guess we'll have to see whether this running and flipping around will translate into a DBZ type universe/game, but I'm hoping that it doesn't.
Play to win.
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| Maou 1315th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Mon 17 Dec 04:32:
quote:
Then I think of FF12's "limit breaks" and I remember how weirdly over the top, but uninspiring they were, because they really had nothing to do with the character.
Good call on XII! That is a good point, and is one of the incongruous things about it (along with Vaan) where it seemed like the new, deteriorated Square had a hand in interfering with the artistic vision of Matsuno.
The funny thing is, though I think Gackt-obsessed Nomura is a totally loose cannon that's only gotten looser in recent years, under proper artistic guidance he can be very effective. Under Sakaguchi, Nomura's heavy-inked styles and like for Gackt actually produced a brilliantly designed character like Squall, a series of distinctive yet not gimmicky characer designs, and a world that is bright and pastel and highly unusual without being gaudy.
Unfortunately, that guiding hand that moderates Nomura's bad taste is gone from Square, along with the other qualified auteurs at Square (Matsuno); worse, he's gotten to take creative director roles. This leaves us with Dragon Ball physics, visual kei, and feathers.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Mon 17 Dec 04:40] |
| Pollyanna 2393th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Mon 17 Dec 09:14
quote:
Are the designs really so unappealing? Or is it just cool to hate on things now? I'm being totally serious.
You've sort of already covered this with Maou, but I don't think that's really a fair thing to say. I mean, FF13 looks pretty EXTREME (X-treme?). It is what it is very much, so it's bound to turn off some people. If FF7 was like a slap in the face to some FF fans, then this is like repeated crowbar blows to the face.
It kind of gives me the same feeling I had when I was playing DMC 3 and a cinema was playing. I kept thinking "I hope no one walks in and catches me watching this."
But I really loved DMC3, and I very well may love FF13, too. It's just...it screams "Final Fantasy is dead" to me. For a lot of people, FF6 is still the best in the series, and there's little comparison to be made between this and 6. For people who think 7 is the best in the series, 13 is going to look a lot better.
Right now, I'm getting a huge kick out of Lost Odyssey, which as far as I'm concerned is the new /old Final Fantasy. For old school FF fans, I encourage you to play it so you can have your cake and eat it, too. Or rather...FF and FF X-treme fans can both have their cake.
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| Pollyanna 2394th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Mon 17 Dec 14:11
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I would love nothing more than to play Lost Odyssey (though I gathered that whereas Final Fantasy systems continue to progress while the story/chara designs dengenerate, the opposite is true with Sakaguchi and Mist Walker?). I wish it were on a system I could see being supported outside of the US. How are you liking the game?
I could go on for a very very long time about how much I love Lost Odyssey, but I'm not done with the game yet, and...well...it would be too much to type.
Instead, I'll say what's wrong with it. The townspeople and other insignificant NPCs don't look very good. Sometimes, the frame rate will get a little messed up and it has occasional, noninvasive load times. Some of the environments could be a little more rich as well, but they're roughly on par with anything else.
Everything else about the game is absolutely fantastic. In particular, the facial animations are impressive. Seeing Kaim cry just...man...it's like an arrow through the heart. As a result, it's sort of necessary to play the game with the English dub, since the animations don't even BEGIN to match the Japanese. Not like...the flaps don't match...like they're flapping to silence or not flapping through entire lines. Thankfully, the English dub is more than satisfactory.
See, look...I'm babbling already.
In terms of the system, it's actually very well thought out. The experience, in terms of challenge and overall "things to do" is very tight and well pieced together. I like revolutionary new stuff, but I don't think that "old school" RPGs should be a thing of the past any more than something like 2D platformers.
I think my limit was DQ8, though....which was way too classic. LO has enough fresh stuff to keep me interested with its button-timed attacks, protective wall system and "mortals learn skills when they level up, but immortals learn skills from mortals or items (like FF9)" system.
With the 360...I don't know what's going to happen. Same with the PS3...but unlike the PS3, there have been enough good games made for it to justify my purchase. I'm hoping the increasing trend toward multi-platform releases will make that issue mostly irrelevant.
Anyway, if you can't bring yourself to get a 360, I highly recommend at least buying the LO soundtrack...or if your Japanese is good enough, the novel.
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| Pollyanna 2395th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Mon 17 Dec 18:19
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Oh, come on. FF was pretty much dead as soon as they showed the very first images of FF7... Or at least, the FF as we knew it. The second half of the FF series slowly gained a life of its own (FF12 being slightly different) and, well, this looks exactly what a post PS1 FF was supposed to look like to me. And I think it looks more promising than any of the 7-10 games.
And I don't agree with your DMC comparison : it's over the top, sure, but it's dead serious about it.
I'm afraid the game is going to get tiring after a few hours of it if it maintains such a pace.
I think it would have been a bit premature to scream "Final Fantasy is dead!" as soon as the first picture of FF7 was published. Besides, I considered FF7 a fluke for quite a while, since the following FF games (even 8) returned "positive" elements that I thought FF7 was lacking.
So when I see FF13, filled with elements I dislike, and lacking in ones I do, then I have to say "this is the final nail in the coffin", especially after the explosion of FF7 stuff.
But maybe I shouldn't say "FF is dead", because that sounds really negative and melodramatic. I think maybe the more appropriate thing to say is "Final Fantasy EXPLODED."
Or maybe it's like the hero in a martial arts story just got a mecha arm. The mecha arm is cool and powerful and stuff, but...I really just liked the martial arts element of the story.
Anyway, I don't think it's right to make any statements about the battle system at this point, as I doubt there was anything even CLOSE to gameplay in the trailer.
Also, you're right about DMC3, but that doesn't make what I said any less true.
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| KTallguy 971th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(6):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Tue 18 Dec 04:50
quote:
I think it would have been a bit premature to scream "Final Fantasy is dead!" as soon as the first picture of FF7 was published. Besides, I considered FF7 a fluke for quite a while, since the following FF games (even 8) returned "positive" elements that I thought FF7 was lacking.
...
Or maybe it's like the hero in a martial arts story just got a mecha arm. The mecha arm is cool and powerful and stuff, but...I really just liked the martial arts element of the story.
I agree with both of these points.
I would hate for EVERY Final Fantasy to be very techno-futuristic, but sometimes it's not so bad... I guess.
I really would like to play Lost Oddessy, but I don't own a 360, and I won't purchase one until there's a complete hardware redesign. It's a shame that the load times are so horrible, but from what I've seen it looks like a really high quality experience.
Polly, I heard that the story is good but it's peppered with lots of 'goofy' moments, is this accurate? Some of the team was on Shadow Hearts too, right?
Play to win.
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| Pollyanna 2396th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Tue 18 Dec 08:17
quote:
I really would like to play Lost Oddessy, but I don't own a 360, and I won't purchase one until there's a complete hardware redesign. It's a shame that the load times are so horrible, but from what I've seen it looks like a really high quality experience.
Polly, I heard that the story is good but it's peppered with lots of 'goofy' moments, is this accurate? Some of the team was on Shadow Hearts too, right?
I wouldn't say "the load times are horrible", just...every so often you'll get a bad one. Usually they're like...a few seconds, but for some crazy reason sometimes it'll take like...30 seconds to load the overhead map. This is very rare, though. It's happened to me twice in 10 hours.
One downside with the 360 is that people's mileage with things like that seems to vary. I hear some players are having a lot of glitches with the frame rate and long loads, but I'm experiencing very very little of that.
As for things being goofy, I imagine people are just complaining about Jansen. He's hilarious, but he never shuts up. He's annoying as a character trait, and sometimes you just want to plant your palm in his face. I don't think that's anything to complain about, though. He's very likable.
BUT I'm not all that far in the game, so there may be a certain scene (or scenes) I haven't hit yet.
So far, the game has really impressed me (especially the unexpected death in the first disk), but it could get on my bad side by the end. I seriously doubt it, but anything's possible. Even if I end up not loving it as much as I do now, I can still say it's the first game with a battle theme that brought tears to my eyes.
I heard at least some of the SH team worked on it, and I can definitely make a few comparisons, but they're all pretty minor things. I guess that could be good or bad depending on how much you like SH.
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| Maou 1319th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(8):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Tue 18 Dec 10:01:
Ah, of course, the novel of Lost Odyssey! This could be my solution to not having a 360...after all, a script-writer who's an author is one of the biggest draws for me these days (it almost tricked me into getting Wild Arms: The Vth Detonator, for the same reasons, though of course I eventually rememebered that it would still be Wild Arms). Though if the novel's well-written enough, it may have the reverse effect and sucker me into a getting an Xbox.
To give some minor praise to the much-abused (by me) Crisis Core and post-Sakaguchi/Matsuno Square, their music department is the one area where they continue to get dynamic new people in contrast to the artistic withering and stagnation of their director and character design fields. The violin/rock piece that plays during Zax's last stand is absolutely stellar. Ah, seems Ishimoto Takeharu is his name.
And outside of Crisis Core, talent has built up, too, even with Uematsu and Mitsuda gone. Hamauzu is unstoppable, Nakano Junya is pretty sharp, and I'm at least impressed with some of Crisis Core's music. This must be the hope that Celes found in the world Cefca ruined...or at least it's a Phoenix Tail.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Tue 18 Dec 10:06] |
| Pollyanna 2397th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trailers" , posted Tue 18 Dec 11:30
quote:
Oh ok... wow. :) I was under the impression that it was every time you wanted to visit the inside of your ship or something.
Is the novel a collection of short stories that are all connected, like the stories in the game?
Well, the novel is IN the game, technically. The game takes place over a relatively short period of Kaim's life, but he has 1000 years of memories. At the beginning of the game, he has amnesia and he recalls these memories one by one. The book is a collection of the short story "memories" that Kaim experiences in the game.
In the game, they're just written as text with vague pictures in the background and music playing. The book and stories aren't necessary to the game, but they make a nice companion piece.
So in your case, Maou, it would be more likely just to motivate you to play the game, I guess. It's not a replacement.
You do occasionally get a "bad load" (a couple seconds) when you go into battle, but they mask it by showing a dramatic shot of the main characters. I mean, the game has frequent loading times, so you can't pretend like they're not there. I don't consider them lengthy or invasive, though.
On a different note...
Crisis Core really does look excellent in almost every respect. If I'm not bogged down by other games, I might give it a shot. It's just...I have to prioritize the games that appeal to me over the games that look good, but DON'T appeal to me. As much praise as I have for Mario Galaxy and as much as I enjoy playing it, I have a tough time motivating myself to boot it up. On the other hand, I can't tear myself away from Lost Odyssey, though I can't really say it's "the better game".
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| ktallguy 974th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):Re(10):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trai" , posted Wed 19 Dec 07:19
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Speaking of Square : I've heard several reports on how Chocobo no Fushigi na Dungeon Wii is great. Not "it's a good game" great, more "It's even better than both PS1 games and most other Fushigi Dungeons game, even more than [insert source's favourite Fushigi Dungeon game here]" great.
And it has Haruhi and SNAAAKU.
I'm seriously thinking about buying a Wii just for this game.
Wow, really? I love Furai no Shiren! I imagine that it's a bit toned down in difficulty because of the 'theme', but I'm a sucker for roguelikes lately.
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Well, the novel is IN the game, technically. The game takes place over a relatively short period of Kaim's life, but he has 1000 years of memories. At the beginning of the game, he has amnesia and he recalls these memories one by one. The book is a collection of the short story "memories" that Kaim experiences in the game.
Gotcha, so the novel contents are actually in the game as well. Those memories that you recall one by one aren't connected to the actual game, from what I've heard, but is each story kind of a separate tale that doesn't relate to any of the others? That's really what I was curious about. The format of the in game novel suggests a collection of novelettes...
quote:
Crisis Core really does look excellent in almost every respect. If I'm not bogged down by other games, I might give it a shot. It's just...I have to prioritize the games that appeal to me over the games that look good, but DON'T appeal to me. As much praise as I have for Mario Galaxy and as much as I enjoy playing it, I have a tough time motivating myself to boot it up. On the other hand, I can't tear myself away from Lost Odyssey, though I can't really say it's "the better game".
I loved Mario Galaxy :) But in retrospect, there are parts of the game that should have been fleshed out more, and there's no real sense of freedom. The best comparison I can come up with is how in Super Mario World, when you got the cape you could go places that were impossible without it, especially if you were a bit clever and explored a lot. Mario Galaxy is an excellent experience, but I rarely got that feeling that I found a "hidden" area.
Oh, and I guess Crisis Core's gameplay and story are the reason why I'm so optimistic about FF13. I really really enjoyed the story, gameplay, and system of that game. I really felt like it streamlined old conventions and truly moved the genre forward in several respects, and I'm expecting similar things from FFXIII. Sure, the angel wings and Gackt are a bit much, but other than that, I had no complaints whatsoever.
Play to win.
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| KTallguy 976th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(4):Re(10):New(Old) Final Fantasy XIII trai" , posted Thu 20 Dec 02:36
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OK, I checked the 2ch thread, and it was not as unanimous. The game is too easy (which is a shame, considering the first two games), but.... Well, who cares, it's cute as hell.
Hmm... that's unfortunate, but I imagine it will come to the US soon.
In any case, there is a Furai no Shiren for Wii!
BTW, Has anyone here played Baroque (PS2)?
Play to win.
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