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| Toxico 4647th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
     
     
     
     
|  "The World Heroes 2Jet thread" , posted Thu 29 Jan 10:25:
Yeah, there have been some people asking about this (jokingly mostly, and yes, all 3 of you), but I thought that I'll give it a shot and here it is. First of all these posts will be long, so if you are not really interested in the game, I wouldn't really advise reading most of the ingame description... I have a somewhat detailist way of explaining things, so; some characters that can do a lot of crazy things will have very long posts, while others are fairly short.
I have a long, long history with the WH franchise, along with Samusupi, WH1 was the first game that I happen to play more in 'vs' mode than anything else... To me World heroes was, in short, like that nasty 10 years old neighbour that was the only one who had an H magazine in the whole town, who ended up being nothing but a bad influence by 'opening your eyes'. If you put a really big analysis in WH2 or (this game) WH2J you'll find out many details and weird stuff that the characters can do, but that it's not necessarily something broken that will ruin the game. In WH2J there are very little things that I am not happy with, but most of the characters have very clear gameplay ideas and the game itself has a pretty nice core to approach. The main point in WH2J is (read carefully) fighting, every character has been thought with the idea of (at some point) approaching the enemy and fighting it out. Running away is not 'permanent', neither is the 'keeping them away', there are very few games that can tell so beautifully what you are supposed to do in a fighting game, much less a 1994 game.
With that said, perhaps the 'weak' point of the game is that when you don't get really in depth in a character, most of the crew 'fell the same'. The main point off the game is 'not what to do' (because everyone must fight), but how delicate you are when attacking, pressuring or counter attacking. It's not usual for a 2D game to be so much focussed on pressuring the enemy, but the game itself invites you foward (normal attacks do thick damage, this is extremely unusual for a SF based game). And as such, there are many of the more 'simple' characters that are usually fun as a 3rd or 4th character, while most of the complicated characters have very steep learning curves that force you to train, or are so fun that you really don't fell like playing someone else for a few hours straight. A Good WH2J match leaves you that bomberman feeling, where you died because you got tricked, cornered and blown up; and you feel that you could and should have done such thing first; WH2J can leave the players with a very strong 'I won, because I fought' feeling.
Also, I haven't really 'got' this from reading boards or seeing vids. Most of these tactics come from a big local comunity that has been playing the games for years (Me alone, I'm close to 3 years of playing semi regulary WH2J in a 2p environment, and it's the WH game that I have playing the least). If you fell in love with certain game play details, some characters become so original (like Kidd, Maximum or Broken), that you feel that they where never really inherited properly by another game, and just fell down unjustly to oblivion after this game.
Also, I won't take a year to complete the whole cast, unlike someone, in certain french thread, very far away.
Few Things about the WH2J engine:
-> At first I thought that it wasn't there, but You can reflect fireballs if you block it at the latest moment possible. This time around it's very hard to do, but fun & rewarding when achieved (and shut downs certain strategies).
-> You can 'roll recover' from some knockdowns, by either pressing down just when you are hit, or pressing a strong attack button instead of the stick movement. As far as I know this is the first game with a feature such as this. Example -> Eating a generic sweep allows you to recover; but eating a enryu ha disables any kind of recovery. This type of recovery is very hard to use, and I only advice to use it when you know that a recoverable move is coming (like, a character that relies a lot in a jab -> sweep combo)
-> There are several types of knockdowns, that means that you can attempt a lot of agressive strategies like cross overs, or chasing the fireball, or using 'teaser' tactics on top of the enemy.
-> There is a feint button that can be used for a lot of things. While you feint, you can't walk, but you can jump, attack, use special moves or charge special moves. Or feint again; there are a lot of pressure and thick throw tactics that use this, playing around with this also makes the game more fun.
-> Running and back dashing are very important. Some characters are so agressive, that can run -> attack -> run -> attack very oftenly; other characters are almost unmobile unless you learn when to run. Not many game use running as agressively and actively as this one, back dashing; for it's part, has some invincibility frames that are good to escape certain strategies and traps, but becomes of little use when you are cornered (and as such, you should learn the importance of cornering an enemy and doing your nasty way with them).
-> Clash or sousai of attacks, was born in this game. It's pretty hard to do, but when it happens, you get the feeling that it happended because you perfectly aimed an attack, but the enemy responded with something better. It is something that you do and not something that happens
-> Cancelling strong attacks into special movements can be very difficult with certain characters and certain attacks. Once you really analyze this, you realize that this too was meant to be part of the game play balance of the game, where some of the most 'complete' characters need to train a lot to properly cancel, while some other characters can pretty much easily cancel whatever they want. Many people fail to realize this and calify the game with 'poor controls'
GAME MODES (I can't believe I forgot this at first)
While playing in vs mode (as you should), the game offers you to choose one between 4 game modes, those are :
Normal : All tree stats are equal (Power, Defense, Speed)
Power : Power doubles it's lenght, but Speed and Defense are cut in half.
Defense : Defense doubles it's lenght, but Speed and Power are cut in half.
Speed : Speeds doubles it's lenght, but Power and Defense are cut in half.
The only one of these moves that I have truly tested is the speed one, it increases your jump speed, and a little bit the lenght of your dash and your backstep. It also increases the speed and range of your special moves, which might be benefical for some teaser traps or thick throw tactics. I haven't really went indepth in the other modes, mainly becuase I hope that they are self explainatory, and not affect only special moves and some normal attacks like the speed mode.
Evey comment on this thread is made from the Normal mode perspective, that has been the mode that most of us have been using since the beginning. However the modes seems to be decently balanced (speed is not as broken as it could be), so I don't really think that focusing in certain modes will screw up game balance or fuck up 90% of the strategies, nor anything
I'll spell check some characters right now and post them; I'll suppose I can have the whole cast in 2 weeks (currently I only lack adding 6 characters to complete everyone).
EDIT : some spelling and game play mechanics added.
obscene voodoo dance teleport
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 29 Jan 15:20] |
| Replies: |
| Toxico 4673th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Yawara" , posted Thu 29 Jan 10:45:
Ryoko Izumo
Trivia -> I haven't been able to confirm it, but I read in a magazine that, bosses aside, she is the only character that comes from the future (she was born in 1999 or so, and is 16 within the game).
This little misfit was by far the strongest character of the previous entrega; not only that but by this game she keeps most of her strenghts, however she now is a less 'divine' character to fight against due to many adjustments... My studies in 2J are not as extensive as in 2, but even if she ends up being the strongest battle goddess of the game once more, the gap between her & the rest of the cast is not as inconmensurable as it used to.
What are you supposed to do with Ryoko? Despise being a character that practices Judo, throwing is not something that her gameplay is focused around. Her strongest point is the insane offensive game that she has, she can not only force very easily the enemy into blocking, but can pop up some very nasty aces once the enemy is tamed. she also packs quick & strong short range normals to prevent slug fights where she can't break through & has very good moves to close up the distance, preventing the enemy from escaping her close range game. The amount of pressure, cheap attacks and trickyness that this character can muster is a very good example of 'what WH is about'.
Advantages :
+ Strong pressure block game -> Strong combos.
+ Strong 'block -> throw' set ups
+ Strong 'close in' game
+ She is the smallest character of the game, and as such a lot of complicated links won't be possible against her.
Disavantages :
- Execution, not being able to tap on some of her traps give a lot of freedom to the enemy.
- Instinct. In order to cope up with her lack of range a lot of preemptive strategies are required, lacking experience with the character will mean that she can be in trouble if she es kept far away.
Let the thruth be told, once you get good enough with her, she completely lacks weak points.
# Closing in ->
-> Her jump is high, but also acceptably quick and her jumping strong kick is a very nasty cross up. Against a well timed cross up the enemy has little choices other than running away or blocking. Even most anti air moves can whiff in such conflictive angle, leaving the Ryuu has as one of your greatest dangers.
-> Her strong Iakeri (623 + kick) is one of the meaneast closing the distance moves, when done incorrectly (That's, closely), the enemy will block this and you will pass right through them and they will recover first. However, when done at the proper distance (It's almost the maximum distance of the move) the enemy will block this and when you fall into the ground they'll be looking at the other side, and if they attacs their moves will come out in the opposite direction. To avoid this the enemy as to wait almost a second for their character to turn around. In that second that they are waiting you are already in their throaths applying pressure. Even if the previous usage of the move is hard to do; the incredibly high priority of the move makes it your main preemptive tool. Also, at medium distances the weak version is stronger against standing attacks, but it's obviously more risky. This 'look the other way' strategy can be effective even if the enemy is cornered.
-> The other means of closing up require basic pokes, walking and running, and that comes with experience
# Vs Block game ->
I don't know If I have mentioned before, but Ryoko's pressure game is among the game's finest. Some normal attacks are hard to land, but the strenght of her regular block game allows you to being able to use everything from time to time.
Some guard pressure examples :
-> Easiest example -> standing low kick, crounching strong kick or crounching strong punch. Nothing of this will combo, but it's quick enough to pressure the enemy.
standing low kick -> 41236 + punch, the standing low kick is the easiest attack to block -> throw. It might be necessary to give a small step foward before the throw.
-> Knock down the enemy -> run with df + strong punch, crounching strong punch, foward + strong punch. (This chain is stronger with the enemy on the corner.
The initial attack stuns the guard for so long, that they can't react before the second attack is blocked, which in turn also stuns the guard for long and allows you launch another attack (however, since the last attack is somewhat slow the enemy could input something invincible to hit you, but if they where trying to attack the 'frame advantage' that you have is enough to overpriotirize attacks. Be carefull of the low range
A good thick throw version of the previous will be replace the crouching strong punch with C button + 41236 + punch on a cornered enemy. The reason of why you add the 'feint' button is not only to confuse the enemy, but also because the extra taunt allows time for the enemy guard to wear of. If you don't want to throw, you could do a crounching jab (a move that can detonate nightmares of it's own). If the enemy is not cornered, df + strong punch -> running throw can become something beautiful
-> Jab examples of pressure : Cross up Strong Kick, crounching jab, close standing strong kick, you cand add a 623 + Kick if you see the strong kick conecting.
Block throw version of the previous example -> Cross up SK, crounching jab, feint, 41236 + punch, much easier to use than the previous example.
A stronger version block pressure with this one would be cross over SK, cr jab, cls strong punch, foward str punch.
-> hardest to use example : With the enemy completely cornered and you on top of him (for example, landing a foward + strong ounch throw towards the corner and then running to it.
Weak bossatsu sho (214 + weak punch)(time it so that it hits in the last possible frame), cls Strong punch, crouching strong kick. None of this combo, but it's a great pressure.
You can replace that cls Strong punch with the taunt -> 41236 + punch throw, of course. And from that throw, you can time a cornered bossatsu again as well, but it's harder to do and you won't get optimal distance. If the initial bossatsu sho hits, you can run and time another one to achieve that very same circunstance again. Be careful of those Ryuu has. Upon hit, A bossatsu sho in the corner -> Kubikiri nage (41236 + kick) is also a pretty evil thing.
-> Attacks that are 'strong' when blocked :
crounching strong punch (has very little range)
crounching jab
close standing strong punch (has little 'afterward' choices though)
triangle jump + button (you need to check where you land to see what options you can do, running throw / sweep is usually evil)
# Combos ->
cr jab -> cls strong kick -> 623 + strong kick. The strong kick has a special timming to be canceled, learn this, this is pretty strong from a cross over.
cr jab x 2 -> cr strong kick. This is your staple 'mid range pressure' combo, depending on how far the enemy is, it might be better to do a single jab; you can replace the cr strong kick with her 623 + weak kick move, it has more range to combo, but needs an standing enemy and is dangerous against block.
df + strong punch -> cls strong kick -> 623 strong kick. Staple 'successful hit from df strong punch' combo.
cls strong punch, far standing neutral strong punch, 623 + kick. This doesn't work on everyone, is a complete pain to do and if you start if from a cross over it becomes a +50% damage stun combo, repeat it twice for the kill :P This infinite, however is so incredible hard to do that shouldn't even be counted on Ryoko's evaluation as a character.
# Strange strategies ->
-> Anywhere on the field : foward + strong punch throw -> 412236 + kick. If the enemy doesn't know how the kubikiri nage works, chances are that they'll eat it. The only uses the kubikiri has are like these, timming it up against a knocked down enemy, however these strategies all have easy escapes and as thus, should be used the least possible, to keep the a big 'wtf!?' surprise factor at it's fullest.
-> Bossatsusho hits on the last frames -> kubikiri nage, this 'goes at hand' the previous 214 + punch examples.
-> If you get a sousai while you are in the air, you can bounce off the wall and do that triangle jump + button special attack Kaen ken.
-> Empty jump to command throw is one of the oldest tricks in the book and as such it is not expected for the enemy to fall for it (it was old already in '94). However, knocking down the enemy, jumping at a crossover angle with an empty jump in a command throw can, sometimes, have the extra psychological pressure needed for someone good to fall for it, specially if you have been on his nerves the entire round.
-> I remember that a properly timmed bossatsu sho was very strong against jumps (in WH2 it was perfect), the only characters that I couldn't stop properly where Karn, Maximum & Dragon, and some like Kidd & Mud man where very hard to stop without trading hits.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 12 Feb 12:39] |
| Toxico 4673th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Iga Ninja (de gozaru)" , posted Thu 29 Jan 11:03:
Hanzou Hattori
The creator of the Qcf x 2 secuence has a lot to say in this instalement. Due to an extensive mechanics change from WH2 Hanzou has been rightly blessed with a lot of beef ups in most of his usual tactics even if most of his move have not being pumped out to a broken degree. As in the previous game Hanzou is the most fun to use exactly in the enemy's face, when a lot of his links combos become a good presure, and the ko ryu ha is the most effective; as well as giving him the best chance to block throw the enemy.
Advantages :
+ Good normals, Hanzou's main means of attacks are his strong & weak attacks 'strings'.
+ Despise being mainly a 'brute force offense' game play character he does packs a decent amount of 'take a guess' cheap shots.
+ The Ko ryu ha is one of the game's most abusive moves in it's category, and that fact alone allows creates a different type of pressure from the character.
Disadvantages :
- His mid & long range strategies aren't 'weak' but don't truly make the most fun out of the character.
- Many of his links don't work in certain cast members, meaning that you need to have a certain idea on 'on who I can't do this'. If your community plays with the entire cast (doubtfull) this can be a pain.
# Movement ->
-> A lot of characters can sweep safely from a normal rekko zan at medium range, however a double rekko zan is much bigger and there are less character can sweep it safely, so when you are pressuring the enemy at mid range (which is the best use for the move) try to do as much as you can the double (be careful since it recovers a little slower). Learn when you should throw a single ball, a double ball or none of them.
-> Hanzou is the only character in the game that can do a short jump, this is performed by tapping the same jump direction twice really quickly (It doesn't have to be the same, but it looks trickier that way). With this Hanzou will cancel his usually long normal jump with his really short second jump. Master this, once you get good enough with this you can do a lot of tricky things, for example at one distance the 'short jump' will land in front of the enemy, while the normal jump with land right behind them, forcing them to choose 'right or left' a la Genjuro. Even if they have good eyes to see this, the short jump is still a good way to pressure and something that makes Hanzou, well, Hanzou.
-> Another thrusty jump strategy was, with the enemy in the corner, jump towards the corner and then give a back jump towards the center of the screen. Then a psychological game will enter into play, for example if the character has a triangle jump and the corner was on the right side, once the rebound of the corner takes place the character will end up facing left. For Hanzou, in that case, he will never face left. This will mean that if the enemy 'saw a chance' and confused the double jump with a triangle jump, they could perfectly eat a combo if they tried to hit you out of this. I have seen this work more than it should, but it's use should be extremely rare, as to keep it a surprise.
-> Running is strong for this character, at close full screen, a rekko zan followed by a Running foward strong kick will combo, remember that said foward strong kick can be interrupted with another rekko zan
-> His teleport, the 623 + kick is very vulnerable as it lands, however it seems to have a pretty big invincibility window at the beggining, as such, is a much less risky bet than the ko ryu ha when getting out of some throw or pressure traps, A good Hanzou can play perfecly fine without this move, but that doesn't mean that is useless. Also, remember that a lot of moves are very strong on block, but have a pretty good lag when dodged (like Dragon's hakuretsu kens, Eric's Blizzard breath, or your very same Double rekko zans).
# Links ->
-> close standing weak kick, foward strong kick, (double) rekko zan is one of your main pressure tools and should be mastered properly (can be a pain to perform). You can replace the foward strong kick with a sweep, in order to pressure the guard is the same.
-> close standing weak kick x 2, crouching strong kick is one of your main 'from jump' means of pressure, and it doesn't need the insanely short distance that most of his other links requiere. Of course you can choose to add one or two kicks as you judge the distance from your enemy.
-> close standing weak kick, crouching strong punch (1 hit), Ko ryuu ha. This doesn't work on everyone, but be sure that on those who does work will bring a big frown. If you fear whiffing the ryu ha a double rekko zan fits perfectly. Or even a weak ninpou ko rin if the enemy is in the corner and is standing. Replacing the rekko with the leg lariat can be a great choice as well.
-> close standing weak kick, small step foward with feint button, then you can either do a Ko Ryuu ha or a throw, or another close standing weak kick, the strong nature of the pushback, however, invalidates the chance of doing this permanently.
If the enemy does a very big mistake, remember that close standing strong punch into Ko ryu ha hurst much more than it should. And your easiest 'from front jump' combo is cr strong punch into the leg lariat, or the rekko or the koh ryu ha, depending on the circunstance.
# Details ->
-> The Ko ryu ha can't sousai with anything in the game, and since it has a pretty degenerate invincibility window, that means that once done properly it will beat out most attack and won't get cancelled by other mojos until is finished. This move, however has an incredibly high risk factor as it not only it has insane range, but Hanzou lands very slowly in a pretty compromising spot. That along with the fact that the rekko zans are weak against jumps, telegraph you that you should never ever consider playing this guy as a keep away shoto. The ko ryu is by far the best answer in the game against throw attemps, and will be capable of stuffing jumps incredibly easily. So use the move as that, as a proper air defence and as a zero distance defense tool. The Ryu ha as an extra advantage, and that is that knocks down the enemy in a special position where they can't recover from, and take a bloody good time to stand up, giving you chances to choice either stepping away, closing in or scratch yourself.
-> The koh rin ka zan has been weakened a little in this game, since it's much harder to combo (and that was it's main use after all), as long as the player gets used to you, they'll have no problems in knocking you off of either version. A friend of mine, however, used to do this pretty annoying tactic using this move as the core : first he landed a weak ryu ha with me in the air, as soon as he toched the floor he did a weak koh rin, and the move stopped right before I could stand up, then he usually choose between : feint into throw, another ryu ha or close standing weak kick.
Even against enemies that can't crouch the koh rin, the move is kinda weak, because when blocked, the enemy recovers much faster than Hanzou in normal conditions.
-> His ninja leg lariat can become a very a very tough move if the user is awake enough. This move usually whiffs against crouching enemies, and that very same 'curse' can be the move's greatest blessing, a good old corner trap was doing a sweep into the lariat, and once the lariat whiffed, attempt a throw after the guard wears off (requires some bloody timming) or a short change, or a ryu ha if they attempt to counter attack. The less the enemy player can foresee the lariat (and thus, not knocking you out of the air when you do it), the best the strategy works is when the enemy is confused, some big enemies can't crouch this move, and that means fun corner traps on your side.
-> His Izuna giri is not an overhead, and his perhaps is less usefull move (It's hard to aim), It's best use is not as an attack per se, but as a means of making Hanzou decend from his jump(s). This could prove usefull against air defenses that have no foward range (like the shark upper) or when you want to add variety to some double jump tricks (like decending from off screen instead of doing the fake triangle jump strategy from a few paragraphs ago).
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 12 Feb 12:42] |
| Toxico 4649th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Liu Bu" , posted Thu 29 Jan 11:18:
Ryofu Housen
I'm not sure if I'm reading the name right, it's 呂布 奉先.
While speaking of World Heroes, I think that it is necessary to do a very big foot note on the Ryofu character, Ryofu's gameplay 'precepts' are extremely simple & clear, anyone that plays with him for 2 minutes can already get the gist of what to do with him, and is in this scary simplicity that Ryofu himself becomes and anti tesis to most of the rest of the cast, at which point his presence in the game becomes strange & valuable. As Ryofu's 'strategies' by themselves are not hidden to any players, the true key to play the characters relies on how composed and how much patience does the player can muster with him. A Ryofu that is persistently relentless & makes as little mistakes as possible is a huge pain to battle for anyone
Advantages :
+ Strenght, Ryofu's normal attacks deal good damage
+ Speed, Ryofu packs some unfare 'push them away' strings that are pretty quick.
+ Range, this much is obvious.
Disadvantages :
- Predictibility, Ryofu is a pretty hard nut to crack, but once he is being pushed to desperation it requires good knowledge about enemy possible actions in order to regain the tide of the match. Instead of fighting trickery with trickery, like almost the entire cast does, you need to 'whistand' their trickery and once you see the space, you just have to keep maiming them in the simply way that this character knows the best. Failing to whistand the trickery can mean getting killed easily.
- As many other characters, he holds no 'definitive' answer against cross overs, hence characters that can apply incredibly high amounts of pressure from cross overs can easily make you lose the momentum. Ryofu can fight this by keeping himself in movement (for example, dashing or back steping cross over attempts), and fighting a preemptive mid range / jump game.
As mentioned earlier, Ryofu knows not of complicated pressure nor of advanced gameplay tactics. He should not, however, be considered a 'complete' zoning character. Just by taking a look at Ryofu's moves & attacks it becomes clear that you are expected to be in two main situations when using him, one of those two is when the enemy is trying to attack you from close, and the other is when the enemy is trying to attack him from afar. Either way this character is 'primitive', so learning how to keep him hitting is the pathway to victory.
# From up close ->
Despise apperances Ryofu is the most annoying when he is extremely close to the player, he has very little attacks that he can rely on in said circunstance, but those very same moves are strong enough to keep him from getting cremeated every time the heat gets increased.
-> Crounching weak punch & crouching strong puch are incredible good pokes that can easily discourage any kind of mix up against the character. They are so quick that once you start blocking the Ryofu player can keep repeating them until the enemy is afar. You might attempt some of the good old crouching jab -> throw or feint + throw, crouching jab - > feint -> crouching jab, but since Ryofu walks somewhat slowly be careful with these.
-> A blocked crouching strong punch is a very good opportunity to run, which in turn is also another very good opporunity to do a crouching strong punch... See where I'm going? due to the push back, don't dream on keeping this up indifinetly, but rather focus to add this to other types of pressure.
-> His 214 + punch move is not quick nor invincible enough to use as a proper defensive move, but one this move is blocked it will provide Ryofu of some of his much desired distance, Ryofu can easy combo a close standing strong punch into this, or link it from his crouching fist pokes. Ryofu's only pseudo reliable combo is close standing strong punch -> 214 + weak punch.
# From afar ->
-> His far standing jab & crouching weak kick are his 'insistence' pokes, they are decently quick and don't bring 'ugly' consecuences when blocked, his far standing strong punch & his far standing strong kick have better range & damage, but can put you in danger if the enemy times properly a jump against it, his crouching kick falls into this category as well. The key to evade accidents is to vary the kinds of attacks that you are giving away. Or you could actually make use of the fact that Ryofu is no slouch and attempt to close the gap to exchange some attacks up close, doing this after pushing the enemy to the corner leaves marvelous results.
-> His foward + strong punch is by far his longest poke, however the angle of the attack & the long recovery of it actually make this hard to use.
-> While Ryofu's jump is kinda slow, there are some valid reasons on why you would want to jump, and that's to add variety to your defense. Ryofu's Air strong kick is pretty strong, and his neutral jump strong punch is pretty good as well, they are pretty good to anticipate cross over attempts or to punish the long range innocent fireballs user.
-> Due to Ryofu's height, his 236 + punch can be used to anticipate jumps from long distance, though this feat is pretty hard to achieve. His 236 + kick is actually much easier to use to stop a close frontal jumping attacks, but also needs proper reflexs and instincts to use. Avoid using this move against standing enemies, while the damage can be pretty insane, the enemy could perfectly fit an uppercut or a sweep while this move is being executed, since none of the consecutive hits of the move are granted.
-> His 63214 + kick is his harder move to use, and perhaps the one with the less 'definitive' purpose. I think that it is quicker than a jump to punish a fireball, but doding the projectile with the weird angle of this move is quite a task to achieve.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Fri 30 Jan 08:44] |
| Toxico 4647th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Quarter Back Montana" , posted Thu 29 Jan 11:50:
It's probably the last of the day, the rest should be posted shortly.
Johnny Maximum
How can we not speak about the wonders that are within World Heroes without touching one of the 'slow but strong' characters from the saga? True to their concept, they are all very slow... however most of them pack such a variety of strenghts & game play options, all of it carefully wrapped within a very specific game play idea which in the ends becomes such a an alluring concept to use, that easily puts to shame most of the current 'slow but strong' characters available to control in nowday games. Johnny is a prime example of this concept, creating a wide array of strenghts & limitations that are pretty much 'almost' unique to him.
While playing with Maximum you can easily convey a 'fortress' feeling with him, he is slow & hard to move, but once he gets going he can use some very nasty strategies that are pretty difficult to stop, and extremely fun to abuse. Being simple doesn't mean that it's easy to stop all of the cheese that Maximum can provide.
Advantages :
+ Johnny's vs block game is very strong, and he packs very good strenghts to properly punish tricking the enemy.
+ While they revolve around few moves, Johnny's mix ups are annoying enough to fear his pressure & grant him decent cheap shots.
+ Strenght, not only he deals more damage than most of the other characters, but he is not restricted to 'one hit wonder' style of game play & can abuse links & combos as most of the cast does.
Disadvantages :
- Short range, despise having some pretty long & good moves to fight from afar, Johnny's true colors shines the brightest when he can make use from all of that short range pressure.
-Size, couples with his short range there is the fact that a lot of the moves that normally whiff against a crounching enemy won't miss against a crouching Johnny.
Of course, once you develop cleverness & instinct, these weak points aren't something that will fell disavantegous at all.
# Offense ->
-> His foward + strong punch is a pretty strong attack, but some characters can duck it, so be careful on not getting wild with it. Learn how to anticipate moves with this, as it can easily shut down a lot of long ranges pokes.
-> A lot of characters can duck against Johnny's standing jab, that does means that against block, and at zero distance a whiffed standing jab into his 41236 + Punch Johnny Special command throw is extremely evil, this same set up is, however extremely hard to apply on block due to the strong push back that most of Johnny's moves have. A crouching weak kick is stronger when we speak of hit / block -> command. Of course, you can, instead of a jab you can use the Feint button -> command grab. Also remember that his Lightning tackle as some pretty good invincible frames at the beginning, and as such will be strong against throw attempts. Also since his close standing strong puch has such a huge block stun, a properly made (blocked) standing strong punch -> running -> command grab is surprinsingly difficult to escape.
-> When anticipating with his 623 punch lightning tackle remember that it's invincible near the beginning, but once it launches into air it's only a high priority attack, and as such some over strong attacks (like dragon's jumping attacks) or invincible attacks will knock you out of the tackle. Learn how to properly time the use of this.
-> His down, up punch 'Head crush' is hard to understand; but extremely good to use when properly understood. The move first lunges Max into the air and as soon as the decend begins, he dives with to the ground face first, the important feature of this move is that you can control the direction of your landing, meaning that you can do those good old Cheng Sinzan landing 'foward or backwards' strategies. The move itself is decently quick but it is importat to keep in mind that it's range is very short. While I don't remember the initial frames having any kind of invincibility at all, the move is quick enough to grant it's use to jump some pressure tactics or fireballs. If this gets blocked, it can hurt.
-> His shoulder butt crush tackle move is excellent (236 + kick), the strong version is extremely quick to travel and stops really safely (making it hard to run away from the character), while the weak version travels a very short range at very slow speed, only to recover quickly when properly done. Be sure to learn how to properly judge the best distance for these moves. Crouching jabs are excellent pressure follow ups to a blocked tackle, said crouching jab can be followed with a crouching strong kick if lands successfuly, but if it is blocked you have other options, such as doing a crouching strong punch at short distance, or a foward strong kick at long distance.
-> While slow, Johnny has one of the most offensive jumps of the game, and he has many strong attacks to keep the pressure in check while jumping, even if he lacks some true cross up possibilities. An easy example will be Jumping with an early strong punch, to land with the command grab. If they forsee the grab you can land with the 623 + punch move to stop enemy reactions, and if they choose to play the waiting game, you can use Johnny's strong command grab set ups or use his block pressure game.
# Against Block game ->
-> Johnny's jabs are his quickest normals and as such should be used as one of your main offensive weapons. A successful jab or two can be easily comboed into his very long range crouching strong kick. The withdraw of this, however is that his crouching sweep is very week against blocks, giving enemy with quick attacks or long range moves easy free shots on Johhny. As such is mandatory that you learn to use your criteria and replace the sweep with a foward strong kick. While we are on the subject, even though it's vulnerable his sweep is insanely strong, and Max ducks so much that you can actually go through some fireballs if you time it properly.
-> Johnny's insane World Heroes 2 combo made it to this game, and that was close standing strong punch x 2, into a crouching strong kick. In this game however, this is harder to land on everyone, and as such you need to learn how to use alternatives to it, such as cls strong punch into foward strong punch upon successful hit. Of course, those are options for 'on hit' combos, for blocking purposes you can actually create some extremely evil set ups such as walk -> close standing fierce punch x 3; or close standing strong punch, crouching strong punch at short range, or close standing strong punch into a running crouching jab or close standing strong punch into a weak 236 + kick.
-> Remember to jab to close standing strong punch or crouching strong punch is pretty good.
-> Remember that he has both, a weak df + kick slide & a strong one, both have different effects on hit and on block, however most of the use for these moves comes from doding fireballs, instead of properly learning how to apply block pressure (it's pretty hard with these moves). A late blocked weak df + kick into the lightning tackle can easly trap those who try to attack after the slide, and if they don't attack you surely can do a running grab or a crouching strong punch.
-> A cls blocked strong punch, into a neutral or back jumping strong punch is pretty hard to block if the enemy is expecting the second attack to be low. In a similar fashion you can do deep jump with a strong attack, and then jump with another strong punch for a 'double overhead' if the enemy was expecting you to attack low after the jump. be careful that some characters might be able to get a counter attack in before Johnny lands, so try to use this when the enemy is about to be stunned, or is about to die... Or simply if the enemy doesn't really know with what to counter attack you or plainly can't.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 29 Jan 14:53] |
| Toxico 4649th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "WH answers" , posted Fri 30 Jan 08:56
quote:
- WHP has an option select throw defense, because pressing buttons while blocking doesn't cause you to come out of block... so mashing HP while blocking when your opponent is in your face is a perfectly fine thing to do, because if they are in your face but leave even the smallest gap in their attack, they will get thrown. This can be beaten, but it's something that players have to be mindful of. True in WH2j?
1st -> there is no hot key in the WH2J gorgeous version of the game.
2nd -> Yes, like in the other games, normal throws are very strong against attack, and don't have miss animation (like in, 70% of the existing games). In this game you can throw a guarding enemy before they can recover (is pretty difficult), unless the enemy cancel his guard with foward (like in the SS games). Even if they do cancel with foward most of the guard pressure patterns or thick throws are pretty good and will not get thrown if you are accurate enough (this is, a pain to achieve). A friend of mine used to try to stop with throw everything that we did, but with time and practice we learned how to cut his crap short.
I was thinking on doing a note about it in the first post, but I think that I forgot  .
quote:
- J.Max can jump cancel one of his tackles. Do jump cancels exist in WH2j?
I think that there are not, With the characters that I have tested it hasn't been possible, and I have tested with a lot of moves (for example in perfect the ninpous could jump cancel for about half of their normals). More importantly, I haven't seen the AI using this (And that's where I learnt about it in Perfect)
quote:
- I think everybody in WHP has some normal moves with autoguard. Is this true in WH2j as well?
This was created for Perfect. Also, I remember that sousai was stupid and useless in perfect, instead of accurated and good like it is here.
quote:
- when at low health in WHP, you can dizzy your opponent more easily... so some combos that are already good become re-dizzy combos when you are low health!
To be honest, I don't know, Unlike perfect (where half of the cast had a stun combo), dizziness is hard to achieve here. The only dizzy combo that I know of doesn't dizzy the enemy if you do it twice (it kills you), but it's so stupidly hard to connect and perform that it doesn't really does anything for the game.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| chazumaru 648th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
|  "Re(1):WH answers" , posted Fri 30 Jan 10:05
Thanks for the heavy write-up Toxico. One thing that impressed me when I finally got seriously into 2J and gave a shot to all characters is how fun the cast is. I usually only play a few characters per game, even in 3S and RB2, but I have fun with at least 8~10 characters in 2J. I am quite upset to be in the middle of a move because my Neo Geo and my 2J copy are stuck in cardboard boxes a few hundred miles away right now.
quote:
Trivia -> I haven't been able to confirm it, but I read in a magazine that, bosses aside, she is the only character that comes from the future (she was born in 1999 or so, and is 16 within the game).
Ryôko is inspired by Tamura Ryôko (judo star from the Nineties) as was the Ryôko from FHD. Considering Imoya now owns both series' IPs, it means that SNK could make a Ryôko/Ryôko team on the awesome Nejibako 2 that will never happen. I love FHD Ryôko so much that I have always been a bit biased against WH Ryôko; I was therefore very surprised to learn that she was so dominating a few months ago.
If possible, I'd be interested into discussing match-ups. What are good and bad match-ups for someone like Ryôfu? What are common techniques to bother Ryôko?
Also, this is not directly 2J-related but I would be interested if you could spend a few minutes discussing how ADK progressively distanced Hanzô from Fûma. I can tell from the movelists but I am interested in how you experienced it.
IT'S THE BLACK PUDDING!
|
| Toxico 4673th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "La Marseillaise! (huge post :P)" , posted Fri 30 Jan 11:53:
quote:
Ryôko is inspired by Tamura Ryôko (judo star from the Nineties) as was the Ryôko from FHD.
I was quite aware of that (I always thought that she was very hot when young, jaja). But isn't there a quite slim line between Yawara And Tani? (After all, Tani was nicknamed Yawara when she got her first medal). The one thing that I'm not certain is that, Yawara began earlier than the 92 olimpics (and became quite famous) but for what I know, Tani jumped to stardom due to those olimpcs, which will break the logic of the manga being 'based on her' (unless she was pretty popular before the medal). There is also the slight possiblity that Tani herself adopted Yawara's haircut due to it's popularity at the time. 'Who was first' is something I have never been certain off.
Some facts about Ryoko (from now on, Y! equals Yawara)
On the Y! manga, her trainer (grandad) used to say all the time "Become the first of japan, and then the world". In WH Ryoko has "Japan's 1st" written on her back (which made me smile)
Her granfather was a degenerated old man who used to be a legend on the judo circuit, but now is retired, is a mayor leech (He tries to catch Y! naked as much as possible) and is a goofy old man that eats cookies and snacks all the time. Further details on that I suppose that would have to wait for a FFS appreciation thread  Sugoi!
Y! has several types of haircuts within the incredibly long manga. Both, Ryoko's (WH) haircut and Ryoko's (FH) haircut's where used by Y! at some points.
Y! storyline is similar to Ryoko's (WH) plot line (you can't see this in Jet, haha). Her father is missing because he is training himself. And he is training himself secretly due to a lost to Y! when she was little and needs to regain confidence. One of Y! dreams is meeting with him again, and that he returns home. For Y!, however, I don't remember her being a gym breaker (she was actually quite emo about judo)
quote:
If possible, I'd be interested into discussing match-ups. What are good and bad match-ups for someone like Ryôfu? What are common techniques to bother Ryôko?
I'm usually the one who uses Ryoko & Ryofu on the group (haha), What is done to me usually doesn't bother me at all, but we could always take the time to investigate as soon as someone buys some more vodkas.
quote:
Also, this is not directly 2J-related but I would be interested if you could spend a few minutes discussing how ADK progressively distanced Hanzô from Fûma. I can tell from the movelists but I am interested in how you experienced it.
I was actually thinking about this today, perhaps later (or tomorrow) I could stamp my feelings on this subject quite clearly. In this game (jet) there are already many differents features between the two (in fact Fuuma's write up focuses on different issues than the one of Hanzou). Also, this game is perhaps the game where both ninpous are almost equal in fun & usefulness. in 2 Fuuma was much more broken, and in Perfect he is incredibly dull and frustrating to use.
Any further attempt to discuss any of these matters is welcome.
And now, because (as we all know) French people are raised in a circus :
Janne D' Arc
In their unphantomable attempts to erase any trace of free will from the world, these evil inhumane frenchmens have gave birth, raised, trained & created an egocentric personality in this character, while the world certainly wasn't ready for France, France was more than properly prepared for anything that anyone could ditch. The original lady oscar clone was once known as 'the world most dangerous beast' in World Heroes 1, being an I·N·S·A·N·E·L·Y strong / over the top toptier & being 'literaly' a gate way to another dimension. While she couldn't recieve 'the top' prize for WH2, along with Mudman she was one of the closest runner ups to what we used to call 'the unholy triada' of top tier characters in 2.
The being said, the core of her gameplay is pretty much the same in all of these 3 games, it's only the abusive strenghts on what she can pull out now that has been toned down for Jet, most of this was present on those men slaving nightmares incarnations of her 1 & 2 personas. What Janne is supposed to do is play a 'chase the sonic boom' style of game play, while keeping the pressure with her quick mid range game & pressing the opposition with her strong links chains, punishing counter meassures with strong preemptive attacks.
Advantages :
+ Flexibility at every possible range.
+ Very strong mid range pressure.
+ Standard & Easy to use 'I was once a Guile clone' tactics.
Disadvantages :
- Long charge times are a pain to deal.
- Her longest range moves are (understandably) very slow.
Janne is one of the most well rounded characters of the game, so none of her previous weakness is actually important. The only grip a player could have would be that 'you used' to be a demon with her Shin neo hyper ultra broken WH 1 & 2 incarnations.
# Offense ->
-> Few of the 'new' mechanics of the game put certain amount of strain on Janne's game. Comboing fierce punches or Kicks into special moves is a much tricker here than what it was in 2 or 1, not only that, but this game charge times are slightly longer. Well, there is also the fact that she can't link 1 or 2 strong punches into the aura bird and then into more strong punches. Another engine feature that works against her is that when you are holding either df or db and you change sides with the enemy (in this case, you cross up or get cross up) the game messes up on what direction you are holding and can accidentaly get you an unwanted move. Train yourself against this (for example, hold only down when you are attacking). As a last grip against the subject, this little problem happens in a several games.
-> Janne's offense is very simple & very effective. Her aura bird (charge back, foward + punch) has an extremely good recovery and can be used to initiate 'offensive move' from either close, mid or long range. From very close range she can usually add jabs from the aura bird to form pressure. From mid distance she can run with a crouching strong punch or add a foward + strong punch 'slash command'. From far distance the best she can do is running once or twice chasing the bird, if the enemy tries to jump through the bird Janne's quick jump & strong air moves can perfectly shut that idea down if you can see it comming (It's easy to do so).
-> Janne's foward + attack move differ a lot from her neutral + attack moves, the neutral ones are usually quicker and more fit for pressure, where as the foward + button are slower with longer range. Get used to get the attack you want in the circunstance that you want. Doing backwards with attack will also get you the 'command' normal move and not the 'neutral' standing move.
-> The Flash Sword (charge down, up with kick) is an incredibly quick move with very decent range, manly used in your preemtive strategies from crouch attacks pressure or as a general combo ender. In WH2 & 1, this move had a pretty beff invincible window which made it very strong against throws and (obviously) attacks. While that invincibility was lost in Perfect, I haven't been able to truly test the move invincibility in Jet (due to it's insane speed & range), but I do think that it still has some invincible frames at the beginning (albeit very short ones), and as such, you can get sousai from this move unless you do it as late as possible.
-> Justice Sword (charge back, foward with kick) does not have invincibility frames, but the huge range & speed of the move make it pretty good when you are reading enemy actions. It is also one of the best combo enders that Janne has, but requires the enemy to be standing and not being someone small (like Ryoko :P)
# Pressure ->
-> Both of her jumping kicks have a pretty good cross up window, learn to abuse this.
-> Her foward + strong kick is not escential to her game, but it is not 'extremely bad' on block, it doesn't need the same care to use as the foward + strong punch. Foward + weak punch is her better 'long range' command move.
-> Crouching low kick is now Janne's nasty pressure tool. While giving several crounching Strong punches, or giving some crouching weak punches is strong against block, is not as strong as it used to, is still hot. The low weak kicks, however, do combo and allow some really nasty mix ups, like crouching low kick x 2 -> croching strong kick -> aura bird is your stable vs block combo, and the first three hit are granted if they conect. Other examples are crouching weak kick -> close standing strong kick OR crouching weak kick -> crouching jab or (one or two) crouching weak kick -> neutral standing strong punch. Janne, however, has problems doing the 'low kick -> throw' gameplay, this is due to the strong push back of the low kick, in order to do this you need to walk foward before throwing, and that alone makes the strategy to obvious and much less 'World Heroes' akin. Remember that even if the weak jab -> strong punch pressures are not as good as the weak kick ones, it is still necessary to vary the speed on the pressure that you are applying, in order to give a chance to that slow throw to come out. Also since the jab pressure is slower, it gives you more time to charge your next special move.
-> You can, however, from mid range or long range, throw a weak aura bird and run towards the enemy with either crouching low kicks, crounching strong punches OR attempting to throw (or even better, feint -> throw). This good old technique was in both of the previous games, but was harder to use due to the lack of running, but was still abusive due to the incredibly fast aura bird.
-> She has access to a very quick, hard to do & Weak overhead by means of jumping, and as soon as you jump do a down + punch. If the enemy is standing, you can input several of these (even on small characters), if the enemy is crouching you will most likely score one or two. Be careful of the landing, try to land without using a down + jab if possible (that means, don't input the move like crazy), but that needs control and understanding.
-> I'm still not exactly sure on 'what where the company thinking' with the Fire Bird (62369 + Punch), this move, however is not 'extremely' weak on block (you are left vulnerable enough to sweeps & quick counters). This move hits twice on block, and has huge range (but it's slowness to come out make it hard to stop a telegraphed jump). As usual with these kinds of moves, it is the lack of use that gives them a 'surprise edge' against the enemy. It can be good to thick kill a low health enemy after using any low strong kick based combo. I rechecked again, and the move doesn't have any invulnerability on the start up, but it has an special characteristic: the enemy can't sousai this move, if they attempt to do so, the sousai will happen, but instead of Janne stoping the move as well, she will go through with it and wack the paralized enemy.
# Combos ->
Crouching low kick, crouching jab, Flash sword, a very much 'kof alike' combo that is useful. You can replace the Flash sword with a Justice Sword (charge back, foward with kick) if the enemy is standing and is not one of the game's midgets.
Crouching low kick, standing strong kick, Justice Sword. Same notd to the justice sword as the previous combo, of course you can input the Aura bird if you see the combo getting blocked.
Close standing strong kick, neutral standing strong punch. Along with cr weak kick x 2, crouching strong kick is your main 'I couldn't charge' combo. Be carefull that the first strong kick can be ducked by some characters, and this can be pretty good after the fire bird, cls strong kick into crouching strong kick is also possible.
EDIT : speringu
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 12 Feb 12:46] |
| Toxico 4652th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):La Marseillaise! (huge post :P)(again)" , posted Fri 30 Jan 16:03
quote:
But I don't remember World Heroes very well... is this the game where you can make your opponent get bald or something like this?
Well, I don't remember if every lost portrait could go bald. But I do remember that Janne's pic could go bald on certain conditions (and I think this is a nod to the historichal figure, I'm not that sure). There are other nods like this (like Rasputin freezing in a weird position).
quote:
Chazu丸 mkII
Well, for Ryoko it's simple. The character was good, to damn good, but was not perfect nor invincible. One of the reasons that I liked the character (aside from being into gi lolis at the time) was that her concept is clear and nicely done: She has to close in. A Ryoko that can't close in has to rely on strategy, and some few brute strenght attacks. Not allowing her the perfect distance for the Iakeri really shut downs some options for her (Ryoko can force this perfect distance if she starts landing attacks, or forcing blocks, but not before that happens). stopping her jump is also a good point. In that circunstance, she is better off poking, from which, only her crouching strong kick is the only one not susceptible to strong small low attack. Also, her air defense is not perfect in this game, this one is important, And she lacks 'invincible kill it all' moves.
To make the long story short.
You can't shut her down all the time, because there are too many factors involved, and she is used to work around those handicaps.
She has problems with strong jump characters, or perfectly meassured jumps.
The lack of invincible defenses make her a good target of block pressure -> thick throw game. But don't be predictable.
Keep yourself in movement.
You won't be able to pressure her the whole round (like she, in return; is able to); but make sure that every time you make her block, do something that will annoy the player, or leaves you in a favorable position. I remember that when I was a fresh, cute, pure & inexperienced young maiden, Captain Kidd, Mudman and Dragon (characters that are strong on your weak areas) made me go 貴様 さえ 否仮れば!!!!!!!!!! many times, when I got better I could overcome the problems, but if the other player plays a strong game with your weakness in mind, it can always get messy.
On Ryofu, well, I don't have that much experiece and I haven't really truly explored the characters strenght or weakness as much as other characters, so take this with a graint of salt (for example, on Ryoko, there it was periods of 2 or 3 years where I played something like 12 hours a month, and used only her. And with some other characters I'm close to that, or my friends are, but not Ryofu). But Ryofu shares her weak point of 'no universal shut down' to the enemy, however his nature makes him harder to 'catch'. Remember that his long range game is strong, but not constant, so if your character have an ubber high priority move from afar (like Max's tackles) or has constant far distance pressure (Like Fuuma's running far standing strong punch x add nasium & it's mix ups) can get the preemptive side of the fight. Also, since his air defense is strong, but varied; characters with tricky jumps (like the ninpous) or with strong jumps, can become a pestilence to him. Remember to do mean things if you get him to block a jump, scare him if possible.
A Ryofu that is willing to trade hits with you is much more annoying to fight than Ryofu that wants to 'get away cleanly, by beating you one sidedly', this pestering actitude will make Ryofu go for the sousai using strong pokes, and will always keep him in good distance, AND will be annoying to pressure, since he will be waiting for an opening for those crouching jabs. But remember that that mind set can not be kept if he is falling low on health. You mght have to work him little by little, and that will be difficult.
For the Hanzou x Fuuma deal, while they where the same thing in WH1, they quickly gained interesting differences. For example for Ryu and Ken, they where breaking apart little by little over the years, and as was not (and is not) been notizable right away. For the WH par, ADK did something stravagant right away, they changed some very basic characteristics.
Fuuma's special moves became 'short', his uppercut has less range and lunges lower than Hanzou's, his fireball travel's ground slower, his Fuu rin ka zan last longer than Hanzou, but covers less range. That translates that Hanzou's moves have better range, and require less accuracy, but that also means that Fuuma's 'small' moves have better recovery; for example since his fireball travels more slowly, he is better at 'chasing the sonic boom' that Hanzou. or his DP allows you more time to dash, jump or do nothing when it hits. This is important for the next point.
Fuuma's normal attacks are, mostly; blessed with much better recovery than Hanzou's ones, so that means that in close in range, Fuuma can pull out a lot of links, combo and pressure options that aren't really that good with Hanzou. This goes at hand with his quicker special moves, that does translate on Fuuma being a more 'raw attack, brute force' character. But Hanzou packs some unorthodox traps with his throws, or his jumps. Hanzou's In most games throws recover faster than Fuuma's, that means that Hanzou has better throw -> follow up game, and that's nice if you can devise strategies to throw more than once in a row, or in the round.
In short, While in 2 Hanzou lacked much of his unorthodox strategies and as such, was a little more boring than Fuuma, who had insane poking game.
In Perfect, the fireball and uppercut got badly weakened for both, and as such Fuuma became a bad 'only normal pokes' character with almost no combos aside from some short links, while Hanzou remained okay with his 'other than fireball, other than uppercut' moves (like the leg lariat) and tactics. Also, when the Hero bar is full, Fuuma is weaker than Hanzou, because he 'loses' and important move (becomes much slower & punishable, and screw ups pressure. And eating a 80% combo because you wanted to empty the bar was not funny), but Hanzou suffers no real backlash with the gauge at max.
Jet, is the game that better represents the difference between the two, giving them a different tempo & range on the offensive and the preemptive game, and giving them different options aside their similarities. Perfect doesn't really let you exploy their similarities and lets you play only with their differences.
Where are my pants? -> powered by 4am Post
Oh, and as evidence states,
quote:
(aside from being into gi lolis at the time)
I played with the other Ryoko as well, but liked this one better due to my innate WH love.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4655th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Mutai Kick" , posted Sun 1 Feb 02:53:
Shura Nai Kanom Tom
Within the World Heroes universe Shura is... To say it in one word, it's Strange. While most character have a huge arrays of strenghts and are clearly meant to have very big freedomws when facing the enemy, Most of Shura's strategies are very fragile and hard to get started on, this coped with the fact that he has very long range normals are features that usually push Shura to play a mid range 'one hit wonder' pressure style. Not only that, but Shura's most important moves have very strange characteristics that can certainly add to the frustration of miss using his moves. This weirds characteristics can make Shura the most frustrasting character to use, and he can be easily considered the weakest of the cast. This fact was actually the same in WH2, however certain buffs here & there along with the fact that most 'divine' tiers have been weakened allows Shura to better give out a proper match to all of those outlaws. Shura's limitaions & characteristics make of him a very difficult character to use, along with the fact that we also have that his very simple 'one hit' keep away game is not exactly thrilling to use, make Shura one of the less 'popular choices' when you have a gather of players that play the game seriously. Netherless he still has is charisma
Advantages :
+ Control, from the pseudo zoning characters of the game, Shura is one of the ones that have better in game options.
+ Annoyance, Shura handles slightly different than most characters, so his mid to close range low poking game could get on the enemy nerves.
Disavantages :
- Slow, Shura has a very big lag after some of his important pokes, and he walks & jumps somewhat slowly.
- Unflexibility, Shura needs a lot of patience when an enemy is pressuring, similar to how a Ryofu player needs to be patient and wait for that opening come through.
- He slightly loses edge against characters that have similar strenghts (like Janne or Ryofu)
# Pokes ->
-> Shura's foward with strong punch has become stronger in this version, can isn't really vulnerable to enemies that can crouch nor against people that block, his crouching strong kick is much slower than before and has a pretty long recovery time, so be careful when using it as you can't cancel it into special moves. Remember that his foward with strong punch can also be performer via backwards with button, so remember to evade getting a Tiger Fang by accident. That command punch can be interrupted with anything, but getting the timming right is fairly annoying, A Tiger Fang or Tiger Claw (his charge moves) are pretty much the only things that is advisable to combo into.
-> Most of Shura's neutral standing attacks can be ducked by normal characters. This proves to be very bad for his close standing strong attacks. You can, however, do some of those good olds whiffed standing jab -> feint -> throw / low kick strategies. Or whiffed jab to throw directly, his standing weak kicks are pretty strong, just like his crouching weak attacks. Shura has a command foward + kick when close standing, but it's nothing really extraordinary.
-> Shura's jump is very slow, but it's also very short. Perhaps the shortest jump of the game. Not only that, but he has some very strong jumping attacks, his strong punch is very good at mid range, and his strong kick can be pretty good from air to air, So be sure to learn with what attack you should jump, and be sure to learn how to pressure with long distance jumps. His back jumping strong punch hits really early, so it can be used as a quick overhead.
-> While it has been said that Shura isn't exactly proficent in close rage face offs, he can certainly use annoying & simple patterns to prevent himself getting completely raped by the enemy. One of this is simply giving a crouching low kick and following with a weak Tiger Claw (charge back, foward + kick). while this move doesn't combo at all on hit, it can become a major worry to the enemy when blocked, becuase the Tiger Claw leaves you pretty close to the enemy & both of you recover nearly at the same time, which can be a big encouragement to try the combo again. Mix ups of that combo are : crouching low kick, crouching low jab, tiger claw, or you can replace the tiger claw with a foward + strong punch. Shura is perhaps the character that needs to do jabs & low kicks the most in order to fight, however he has a very special advantage from this, his weak attacks have very little push back, so some good old crouching low kick -> throw strategies are pretty good with him. He can even do a Tiger claw -> throw at the proper distance.
-> The Tiger Claw (charge back, foward with kick) and the Tiger Fang (charge back, foward with punch) are both VERY different moves, the essentially look the same to a beginner, but upon further investigation we realize that the Fang does not work against most crouching enemies, and also, it leaves you vulnerable on block. The tiger claw, however can easily hit anyone in the game even if they crouch. Another difference between the moves are that they all travel different distances, A weak Fang travels further than a weak Claw, and the same applies for the strong versions of the moves. With that being said & the fact that they are hard to combo, makes hard to advice when to use a Fang. Remember that
-> His Double Knee kick is strange, it can hit crouching enemies from very close, but fails badly in doing so from afar, it is also slightly unsafe on block (Shura back jumps after the move, and some characters can easily get him then). Also the priority of the move is not what we could call 'extraordinary' so it's not really advisable to abuse the move to stop enemy attacks. The main usage of the move are simple 'canned' combos, like close standing strong punch, kick or crouching strong punch. Remember to always combo the weak version of the move, as it launches quicker than the strong version and it will combo in more circunstances due to that fact. A neutral standing strong punch into this move at maximum distance will most likely not combo, so keep that in mind.
# General ->
-> His weak Mutai Kick lands a little bit earlier than the enemy when it hits, where as his strong Mutai Kick lands after the enemy has standed up. I haven't deeply checked for differences in the invincibility window of the 2 Mutai Kicks, but I can confidently say that both do have said window in the initial hit. Since when he lauches up the sky the kick is no longer invincible, it is fairly possible that you'll get a sousai out of the move. Remember that you can direct where Shura will land from this move.
-> Compared to his normal walking speed, running feels like speed sound with this character, always keep this in mind.
-> Against some characters, a weak kick or weak punch to weak tiger claw will combo, but it's hard to succeed on this.
-> Surprinsingly enough, when it hits, the enemy recovers quickly from a tiger claw. So while the move is very safe on block & at good range, it's a little bit risky if the enemy eats the move by accident (I suppose this was done to prevent Shura from doing low kick -> tiger claw till the end of time). You could get thrown or eat a sweep upon a successfull miss placed claw.
-> crouching weak kick to neutral standing strong punch does combo, but you can't really combo anything afterwards (the enemy get's pushed to far away, and the double knee tends to miss, and since it's neutral + punch you are not really charging any move).
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Tue 3 Feb 11:51] |
| Toxico 4655th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Chaka zulu" , posted Tue 3 Feb 11:51
Mud Man
Not it's the time to review this character that has surely come to be one of the most known faces of the game, being part of TV advertisement, posters and having breaked through some 'dream match barriers', it is certainly fortunated that this character is well known, as his game play reflects perfectly certain aspects of the game : This mischievous Uka chaka hero is certainly one of the easiest characters to understand and use, however within that simple to use style he has very strong offensives and can easily pressure the enemy in order to attain victory.
Advantages :
+ Annoyance, I'm not joking. Mud man has excellent normals and many characters have conflict when getting in a 'blow per blow' fight with him
+ Despise being a very simple character to use, his offensive nature & carisma made him a fun character to use.
Disadvantages :
- Mud man is a character that deals damage 'hit per hit', and as such he really lacks 'huge damage' options to do psychological warfare or punish mistakes.
- His special moves are (mostly) very hard to use.
# Offense ->
-> Mud mad has, perhaps, the best jump from the whole game. It's decently high and is extremely fast, it doesn't covers much ground but the insane strenght of his air attacks make any short comming an easily forgettable thing. His jumping strong punch is extremely good, it has a big cross over window and is very fast; and despise appereances it has a very big hit window on top of Mud man. His strong jumping kick has more range foward than his punch, but it does not have the insane upwards & backwards range that his strong punch posses. A prorperly timmed jumping attack from Mud man his something that many characters of the cast have trouble dealing with.
-> His Jumping weak kick dives into the ground, so using pressure tactics like jump weak kick -> jump weak kick, or jumping weak kick -> cross over, or jumping weak kick -> sweep can be bothersome to characters that have hard to use air defense. This move can be a good overhead by it's own right.
-> His close standing strong punch is very strong as well, the first hit is cancelable but it's hard to do so and the punch is not really intended for that, The move has very strong priority and after it's blocked the enemy and you move nearly at the same time (unlike WH2, the enemy had complete disadvantage in that situation). With that being said, giving a strong punch and then using other high priority attack such as his crouching strong kick or far standing neutral punch can certainly put a big pressure on players that are not exactly trained to confront these kind of situations. A far standing neutral strong kick can be annoying to enemies that aren't really trained against it, unlike 2 it's not very strong against crouching enemies, but it can certainly & easily beat misplaced pokes.
-> His foward with strong punch is very slow and can be ducked by most enemies, but, but if it gets blocked, you recover far away and nearly at the same time that the enemy, following up this attack with a crouching strong kick or a far standing neutral punch can be a very good tactic to someone who wants to react after the command move.
-> His weak Mud man attack (236 + punch) is slightly slow to come out, but recovers extremely quickly, so chasing after it once it's thrown is one of Mud man's basics. Good moves to chase it are his foward with strong kick (be careful if the enemy is crouching), his far standing neutral strong punch is also pretty good choice to follow up, and it's stronger against crouching people and it has pretty good range, but not as good as the other choice suggested from very far off distnace. If the enemy choose to keep blocking after the fire ball, afraid of making moves, you can throw another weak Mud man attack instead of hitting, but this is hard to set up on enemies with quick reactions. His strong Mud man attack is bigger and faster, and as such it can be used to stop misplaced attacks at mid range. You can chase after a strong Mud man attack, but it doesn't produce as much pressure as chasing a weak one. Also remember that his far standing neutral strong punch can be canceled into other moves, but be careful of the lag of using that move into another Mud man attack.
-> His df strong kick his slow and doesn't recovers really quickly and is hard to use. His df wth weak kick, however, is exactly the same as the strong one but recovers much faster than the enemy if blocked.
-> He has strong submission holds, but he has very basic (aka weak) set ups to them.
# General ->
-> His Mud man launcher (236 + kick) is extremely hard to use, it requires quite some time to launch and it does recover somewhat slowly. It's most usual usage his perforing it against a knocked down opponent. Even though it recovers very slowly, you usually have enough time to perform a short dash and follow up with attacks, much like the Mud man attack. Remember that the weak and strong versions land in different places. Also don't try to stop jumps with it unless you can really telegraph a slow jump, for example in a Mud man vs Mud man battle a Mud man must almost literally jump twice in a row, for his quick jump to be stopped by this move.
-> There are several strategies where canceling an attack into the Mud man attack can be dangerous if the enemy jumps (life far standing strong punch into Mud man attack), in those cases if the enemy is not careful to use criteria, replacing the Mud man attack with the Mud man launcher will most likely nail him (it dependes and how quickly they jump and with what character). This is hard to apply but can be worthy to remember
-> His Mud man cutter is extremely hard to use, and due to this is usually left alone by Mud man players. Everyone in the game can duck this, one of it's best, alas very complicated usages is when the enemy jumps with the intention of landing in front somewhat like 2 bodies away from Mud man. Due to the range of the move, if you can properly time it it could surely snatch the enemy in that circunstance. But it's extremely difficult to do so. One of the easiest usages of the move is as a 'teaser' (similar to the rin ka zans), for example canceling a successful crouching strong kick into this move, and direct it close to the enemy, before they can stand up.
-> Mud man has an almost inexistant combo capabilities. While standing jab to close standing strong kick work against some enemies, it's very unreliable due to the low range of the kick. Your more trust worthy combos are close standing jab into crouching strong kick, or crouching weak kick into a crouching strong kick.
-> His Mud tornado is also somewhat difficult to use. The move is completely invincible & very quick but it will whiff on crouchers. Another bad point of the move is that a charge move doesn't really fits with Mud man's 'pro movement' gameplay. It can be a nice move to anticipate, read and evade throws, as most throws can't be performed from a crouching position; but this usage requires vast amounts of experiences on what you can do, what the enemy character can do and what the enemy player might attempt. AND not every close standing strong attack will be nailed by this move.
-> His far standing foward with weak kick has insane priority, but it's hard to mix up in his strategies.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4673th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "ICHIBAN!!" , posted Fri 6 Feb 11:30:
Muscle Power (Chris Hangger （クリス・ハンガー）)
This character special.... Characteristics has been one of the major sources of critics within the series itself... be as it may; it's exactly due to that fact that Muscle Power perfectly represents what the World Heroes games are, and what are they aiming to achieve. Muscle Power 'borrows' concepts & elements from another character that happened to appear in a well renowed game, and builds a personal style adding to that 'core' elements, tastes & factors that are 'personal' to him. In a personal note Muscle Power made the perfect sin of being there in a good SNES port when my curiosity for fighting games was completely peaked. In short terms, Muscle Power is a character that demostrates great strenghts not only when he is close to the enemy, but he can use pretty buff moves when the enemy is afar as well. As a character that can both, destroy near by enemy, as well as making his life miserable when they choose to retreat, the main issue with him is getting a proper hold of his game play rhythm and knowing what to do best in order to not let his slow speed being the cause of losing the pacing of the match.
Advantages ->
+ Strong mix up game.
+ Power, not only in damage, but Muscle Power is a character that is hard to attack, and is hard to defend against.
Disadvantages ->
- While he is not weak, he lacks flexibility from afar, and unless you learn how to place dashes & jumps, it's hard to move this character.
- He doesn't posses 'cream puff' damaging moves or combos, you really need to work your damage hit per hit.
# Long range game ->
-> Running into 360º. Learn it. Quick. It's not a sugestion. Muscle Power's dash is not slow, and on the very few oportunities that you CAN use this, make sure that you can pull it out with '100% under pressure accuracy'.
-> Muscle Power crouching jabs and crouching weak kicks are very quick and very strong, they are your main weapon to 'buy time' for either charging the Muscle bomber (charge back, foward with kick) or following them up with a strong attack. A Muscle Power that abuses his crouching jabs is a very difficult character to aproach to most of the rest of the cast; or he can also be a difficult character to have on your face. Remember that keeping the enemy away is not Muscle's main game, so knowing when to mix up these jabs with other moves is what dictaminates success & failure to the character. Muscle's trademark pressure game since WH1 has been crouching jab x 2 -> muscle bomber -> crouching jab x 2 -> muscle bomber. If the enemy chooses to 'wait' & block this pattern, you can (at any time or any hit) change any attack with a running 360º Tornado Breaker. Be careful because, unlike WH1 & 2, there is a decent gap for the enemy to counter attack before and after the muscle bomber. So knowing when to lunge foward and when to not, quickly becomes essential.
-> His crouching strong kick has insane range but it's albeit slow. One of it's main uses is to have it blocked at maximum range, helping with the pressure. An example of this is to exchange a Muscle bomber for this kick within the previously discussed pattern.
-> His far standing strong kick has incredible speed & strenght, however it will miss against some ducking enemies. You can abuse it against tall people, of course :P In the proper angle this kick can shut down jumping attacks pretty cleanly. Learn at what angle you need to use this move to stop jumps, and for those jumps that you can't, you can usually stop them with a crouching strong punch & proper timming. If neither of those two defenses works due to weird jumping angle, consider the possibilty of fighting air to air with your moves. When I checked WH1 I was pretty much amazed with how complete Muscle's air defense & offense was.
-> His Aerial Drop Kick (2369 + kick) is a very quick, very long range move that leaves you very open if blocked. However it's speed, priority & angle make it a great move to anticipate enemy actions. Keep in mind that the move doesn't start inmediatly, but first Muscle Power jumps foward and in mid air he launches the kick (you can't really distingish this by sight only); and as such, in order to stop enemy attacks you must give this move enough space so that the kick is on it's strongest point. Learning when to use this move to shut down the enemy greatly increases the fun that Muscle Power can provide. Also remember that it's huge range & speed make it a good tool to when the enemy does a mistake from affar.
-> Muscle Power has a very slow Jump, however he can perform some very good attacks from it. His neutral strong punch from Jump is good in his close range game and as such will be reviewed later, his either weak or strong kick posses huge range and are great when counter attacking, however my personal favourite from his jump is his down + punch move, this move is the same regardless of the strenght used to perform it; and has some very neat characteristics: first, it hits in a very sharp angle and as such, is very strong from Air to ground attacks, secondly, it has some very good guard stun time, so having it blocked somewhat early in the jump at mid distance makes an excellent gateway for a thick throw with his 360º Tornado breaker move (Which was the easiest way to whack that damned insane broken MudaMuda monster Dio in 2), remember to mix it up. His jumping down strong kick is good for hisinclose game.
-> Muscle Power has access to very different attacks if you do a neutral jump. The most important thing to notice here is that you lose the jumping strong kick and gets replaced by a command attack that leaves you vulnerable when he touches ground. As such you should use the weak kick in order to have a long range kick from this jump.
-> Remember that Muscle Power has two of those 'two bodies away' normal throws. While they are not extremely important to his game, one of those is a very strong submission hold (the punch one). A very easy way to use it is putting yourself at the right distance, use the feint button and then attempt the normal throw. Since you can't walk while using the feint, you won't have problem with doing a close standing throw because Muscle accidentally gave one step.
-> While I haven't noticed differences in speed, range & damage, his Muscle bomber (charge back, foward with kick) moves have different effects when they hit, being the strong one the one who offers more time to chase after the enemy.
# Short range game ->
-> In every World Heroes game Muscle Power can perform his command throw with the marvelous 'plus sign' command (6428 + punch, aka foward, back, down up + punch). My advise is that, instead of focusing in one method of doing the move, learn in which circunstance you can pull out with more reliability & speed each method. I know I use them both.
-> Muscle Power can't cancel his jabs or weak kicks into special moves in this game, but since they are so quick to recover, linking them into a Muscle bomber (charge back, foward + kick) or linking them with a sweep is quick enough to be something hard to deal with.
-> Neutral jump with strong kick, or even better yet, backwards jump with down + strong kick (if you can input it at light speed) is one of your main overheads, while this means inferno on block, Muscle's power strong, abusable weak low kick game makes this hit more than it should. Remember that you can do some extremely evil set ups such as crouching weak kick -> overhead / low / throw. Cross over strong punch -> over head / low / throw, among others. From most of these 'jumping overheads' in the game, this is the perhaps the only one that is completely safe when it hits (It even gives you an offensive edge), in every circunstance. Remember that, you can also link and combo a cr low kick or a cr jab with a neutral jumping strong kick, can sometimes be advisable from jump, but has very little range, so be careful.
-> A close standing blocked jab, followed by close standing strong punch is more evil than it should.
-> His jumping strong punch has some pretty decent decent cross up frames. In this World Heroes game, and this only; Muscle Power does not enjoy incredible broken combo options to follow up this attack. So even if it's blocked or if it hits, you should always be thinking on either pressuring the enemy with jabs or weak kicks, or mix his mind up with a cls strong punch, or jab -> feint -> command throw, or close standing jab (whiffed) -> command throw, blocked close standing weak kick -> walk -> command throw, among others. Muscle Power has many set ups, so remember to try out many strategies & adjust you to the ones you can pull out more easily or think that are more effective. Strangely enough, even your most simple option, as a combo (cross over strong punch followed by 3 crouching jabs) is decent pain.
-> Muscle Power's BEST définition characteristics is his strong punch. The attack will come out either you are standing close or far (this is important). Secondly, while the attack itself is very slow, once it hits it will provide HUGE movement advantage to him. For example if you connect a close standing strong punch, you can link a strong Drop Kick (2369) and it will combo. You can even link jabs after a successful punch... The important part is that due to such block stun, doing simple strategies like strong punch -> crouching strong kick (this does combo on hit, btw) or strong punch -> running 360º are deadlier than what it seems. You can even do close standing strong puch x2 to do some long range guard stun manuevers. Remember that from a close standing strong punch x 2 you can easly charge the Muscle Bomber.
-> Muscle Power can certainly do some very sharps throw set ups in the corner. For example doing close standing strong punch -> feint button eliminates the push back that the strong punch has on the corner. It's obvious that without puch back, a blocked punch into the command throw couldn't be any easier. And as such, if the enemy chooses only to block, you could, in theory, do close standing strong punch into feint button infinitely, this 'infinite pressure' can be easily stopped if the chooses to attack, but if you don't feint and do a cls strong punch x 2, or a strong sweep after the punch or a jab, then an enemy that missplaced a retaliation will be nailed for sure. For an enemy that tries to jump the throw after the close standing throw you have a crouching strong punch, or your almost impossible to do ground to air throw. Being able to fore-read the enemy in this circunstance can certainly create great fun.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 12 Feb 12:44] |
| Toxico 4661th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Hail Brocken" , posted Sat 7 Feb 01:23
To celebrate the fact that someone 'missed' a character that was previously requested I'll take on my usual 'chew their heads off' sportmaship role, and do heed one of people's choices.
Brocken
In a similar fashion to the Muscle Power issue, Brocken is one of the less understood and more shunned characters of the whole saga. Unrelated to that fact, however, Brocken poses as a 'very different character to use' in World Heroes, his game play concept differes greatly from the other characters, so much that many players don't really grasp what to do with Brocken once they have picked him, and leave themselves to appereances and play Brocken as a keep away character. The interesting part begins here, Brocken is a not an ubber strong character when fighting up close, so the 'obvious' choice is to play a far away game with the character... However a good Brocken knows that he won't win the match by pursuing the enemy from afar, knows that his attacks won't connect.
What are you supposed to do with Brocken, then? Brocken is a character that can do some very good control on the enemy actions from far of the screen, however as such; the enemy knows that they are going to 'get tricked' and as such will play a careful game to evade getting pressed. But that's what Brocken wants, Brocken true face is that of a character that forces the enemy to block, and then kills them by damaging their guard, controlling the enemy reactions with punishment when they try to evade the strenght of your thick damage. In order to achieve this, a Brocken player needs to keep a clear head & proper knowledge of where you are standing, where the enemy is standing, and what the enemy is doing. This, along with different strategies for when the enemy is blocking, being hit or when the enemy is knocked down adds to Brocken players a huge feel of awareness, which translates into one of the most fun character to use, and one of the characters that grants one of the biggest self achievements feelings of the game.
Advantages ->
+ Requires sharp criteria & senses, fun to get into.
+ Strong, albeit slow long range -> approach game.
+ Focuses around clever traps.
Disadvantages ->
- Requires sharp criteria & senses, hard to get into.
- Mistakes can costs dearly, and needs to work his damage much more than almost eveyone else in the cast.
# Control ->
-> For Brocken's long range attacks, keep in mind that not the entire attack hits. For example, if you perform his foward with strong kick, only the boot hits, the 'cord' that he uses to strech his leg & the leg that's close to Brocken's body can't hit the enemy (This is hard to notice, because the boot itself has huge range, it's hard to get at first, but remember also that Brocken's attacks are like a moving car: they start near from you, and move "slowly" toward their destination, so when they are close to you they hit close to you, but when they are far from you, they don't hit close to you. So be very careful on when to place weak attack (which are strong from close) and long range attacks (obviously, strong from afar). This is important for Brocken's jump, since it's slow jump makes enemies usually try to approach you once in the air. You must, however, not evade jumping; since it's important for Brocken's game, you need to read the situation correctly. This fact is not so bothersome if the enemy is staying still, but if the enemy moves around too much, he'll notice that there is a blind spot that they can take advantage of. Doing jab -> strong attack is not such a bad pressure idea either with certain quick strongs.
-> Brocken's control on the enemy is born from the ability of it's user to foresee what the enemy is going to do. For example, a crouching strong punch from afar x 2 is not really a strong pressure tactic, because it can be easily jumped or interrupted. If you can react to the enemy jump, you can replace the second crouching strong punch for one of the many strong air defenses that Brocken can muster, or of the enemy tries to dash in or use invincible moves or fireball, you'll have to show other options for those cases as well. If the pressure that you are creating by controlling the enemy is great, then they'll most likely block the strong punch twice, which can create great distance between you and the enemy.
-> Brocken is very strong against fireballs, His crouching strong kick ducks really low and has range, and as such you can duck many fireballs and punish the vulnerable enemy. I have seen his crouching strong punch ducking fireballs as well, but I have not properly tested how much that punch ducks; but it's certainly less than the kick. Another good move against fireballs is the good old classic Jumping with strong kick, at far distance you can easily neutral jump the fireball while the sharp angle of the move will most likely nail the enemy, he has many other 'logic' tricks like this, so explore which choice is better on which distance, range and opportunity.
-> Brocken has two fireballs and they both work very differently, his Rocket punch (236 + punch) launches somewhat slowly, but recovers very quickly and as such is great to chase after it once is out. His German missile (236 + kick) launches faster than the Rocket punch, and recovers nearly at the same time, BUT it travels near the ground, and as such it can be escaped with certain ease by the enemy (but isn't that what you are aiming for?  ). Remember that for either strong or weak fireball, the speed at which they travel and at which they are launched are very different, so remember how to deal with that. Good post fireball strategies are fireball -> far standing punches or crouching strong punches (to keep the distance), Or fireball -> run -> Arm punch, for the thick damage. Knocking down the enemy is one of the greatest windows to use these moves; coincidently, these moves knock down the enemy if they hit. Another good fireball option is jumping from afar.
-> Brocken's air defense is varied, far standing foward with strong kick can catch an enemy that has just jumped or is about to land from really far distance. He has a jumping version of that kick (done by pressing df with strong kick while in air), which is very useful from similar distance and higher heights, his Hurricane Arm (263 + punch) has some very good invincibility frames, good speed and has a very sharp angle and is quick to launch, but has some blind spots (for example, will, for the most part, miss against standing enemies. Or fail to stop cross ups). His jumping Jet Attack (A+B while in air) has very good priority and speed in air to air battles. One of the keys to successfully play Brocken is knowing when and what to stop with what. To further add chaos to your selection of defensive methods, his jumping strong punch, and his jumping strong kick are also good to anticipate jumps from certain angles. Lastly, Brocken's far standing neutral strong kick has some pretty insane upwards range, you can learn to stop some weird angle jumps with it.
-> Remember that you can direct the height of his Jet Attack (A+B while in mid air), it's hard to achieve (But possible) to punish full screen fireballs with this move if you jump and input it nearly at the same time that the fireball, and you direct the move towards the enemy, after dodging the fireball in the process. This move doesn't seem very important at first but learn how to use it, a Brocken that knows when to input this move will have a big edge over Air to Air battle; and air to air battles will most likely be a weak point for you if you can't properly time this move or some accurated weak attacks. In certain weird situations this can also be used as a run away move.
# Pressuring with block damage ->
-> Remember that Brocken's weak punches & kicks have really short range, but are very quick and can be canceled into other moves. Brocken's far standing neutral strong punch and far standing foward strong punch are very quick and are one of his safest pokes, and they are decently good against crouching enemies too, do they are good for those 'several attacks' links.
-> One of Brocken's main offensive & thick damage moves is his newly added and only present in this game, the Arm Punch (214 + punch), the move itself does very small damage when it hits, but when it's blocked can become your main damage dealer. The move is also pretty flexible, with decent range as is quick enough to be used offensively and to combo into it. Crouching jab (one or two) into a strong Arm Punch combos easily, neutral close standing strong punch or close standing foward strong kick (first hit) into this move also makes wonders. The main strong point of the move is that you are not left vulnerable once this move is blocked, you the enemy recovers slightly faster, but that's of little concern. At the proper distance completely blocked, Arm Punch -> crouching weak kick -> Arm Punch is an incredible good thick damage tool; and if the enemy gets agressive you can wait or back dash after the first Arm Punch. Remember when using this that the weak and strong version travel different lenghts, and seems to recover at different speeds (with weak being the safer), also remember that the closest you have this move blocked, the more dangerous position you are in, so try to space the usage of this one properly. Work this move into your game. The only time I have seen this move being punished on block was against J. Carn fast charge attack or being throwed after having this move blocked on the corner. In both cases, that punishment came from mistakes of the Brocken player. Be awake against enemies that run and throw after blocking this move; Dragon kick will most likely nail you as well. If the enemy can properly punish this move, you'll notice that most of your pressure strategies will change quickly. That's how important it is.
-> The Spark Thunder (Tap punch repeteadly) recovers fairly quickly, is fast to come out and when it hits, it knock downs the enemy very slowly and you can pretty much attempt any kind of pressure from that. The main problem with the move is that getting it out 'on the spot' can be difficult, remember that this move is a 'fireball' and as such is not part of your body, hence it will not sousai and if the enemy tries to fit in a psychal attack against it you will most likely toast them at the proper distance (from close, they will hit your hand), you can even use this spark to stop misplaced jumps (but I believe you have safer, easier to do options for that). The Spark Thunder has a Long range version, obviously called Long Spark Thunder, and it's done without tapping (it's 41236 + punch). This one is actually incredibly difficult to use, because the move last too long, and as such, if the enemy can block the first hits of the move, and then jump over or throw fireballs before the move finishes, you'll get it. You can, however, do a bunch of pretty good knock down tactics with it if you train yourself to do so, for example connect a normal spark thunder or a fireball, and while the enemy is knocked down perform this move earlier than the enemy weakes up, with proper training you'll make the last 3 or 4 hits of the move to be blocked, and as such they will be pretty safe on block. While this certain usage of the move is hard to apply, but it's really good when the enemy is cornered and you don't want to risk get the Arm punch throwed after block. Same as his punches, the 'cord' part of the arm won't hit the enemy. Train yourself so that you can the Rocket Punch or the Long Spark Thunder whenever you want, since the move secuences are fairly familiar, and inexperienced player might mess up with the moves badly (specially if you like to back dash into fireballs).
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4664th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Hail Brocken" , posted Sun 8 Feb 11:53
quote:
Thanks! I am surprised that the Jet Attack isn't a more decisive aspect of his strategy.
To answer the comment, is not that isn't something decisive and 'new' on the character; but rather is something that strongly reinforces a concept that character already is 'proficient'.
Well, to be honest the main detractor from using the move, is that is very easy to punish it from block; creating a bothersome risk factor that the enemy will be on the look out for (even with the huge manueverability with the move, it's risky), if the enemy can't really punish you from it; then there is little to stop you from using it all the time. As you know, the move itself is very strong against frontal attacks (and, as you said, the ability to get it from almost every possible height make it good for stopping virtually anything). This move actually acts like a more complex En/Koh Ryu ha type of move; and as such if for some reason someone doesn't know how to punish Hanzou or Fuuma after failing their Ryu has, they know how they could perfectly abuse the move all the time until my grand-grand children grew calluses.
Some few more details about the move :
-> Unlike that renowed game paco, the move has no cross up window, so you won't be doing unblockable cross overs in this game.
-> The moves stops, when Brocken can no longer travel (touches the edge of the screen). This translates that while in the middle of the stage; you will be left at full screen distance from the enemy, and most likely the enemy will recover first. This doesn't spell danger to you, but means that 'stopping' moves with this attack and then 'following up' with more possibilities isn't likely, not to say impossible. This means that this move is usually used to stop the enemy and 'reset' the circunstance; instead of stopping the enemy and 'giving you an offensive edge'.
-> The previous disadvantage doesn't applies if the enemy is cornered; but if it gets blocked on such case, you are pretty much in for some good & intense punishment.
-> Lastly, if for some reason the enemy can't easily punish this move on block, they can perfectly run after Brocken by dashing and using special moves that cover greath lengths. I have (almost literally) chased Brockens from one corner to another with some characters.
Also, these comments come not from someone that plays a good Brocken, but someone that has fought a good Brocken with several match ups, many times.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4667th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "No one escapes from Cassandra" , posted Tue 10 Feb 01:29
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
(HnK reference)
End of Spoiler
Julius Kharn
At first sight, J. Kharn was really seen as a strange character at the time, he was slow, but had no brocken ultra long range half screen attack, nor a strong command or submission throw, however as soon as you picked the character as to try it out, the first thing you noticed in WH1 was how brocken he was, while he had decent range with low damage pokes, and was slow; by irony most of his game play was around frame traps and his (slow at the time) sliding move. In 2jet we can easily discover that the core of Kharn's game play is pretty much the same, but with differents and much less broken characterestics than in 2 (althrough, some very strong cheese made it to this game). He stand there brightly in the group of 'simple brawlers to use', and is one of the most aggressive one from that lot.
Advantages ->
+ Simple to use.
+ Packs some interesting cheap shots 'look at the pretty bird' type of strategies.
Disadvantages ->
- The most fun to use moves have some pretty nasty draw backs.
- Very primitive, boring & hard to deal character when played in 'the safe way'
# Approaching the enemy ->
-> His triangle jump is faster than his normal jump, but due to it's limitated range it's hard to accurately approach or attack the enemy with it.
-> His Mongolian Tiger Flash (charge back, foward with punch) is incredibly fast, easily one of the fastests moves in the game and can pretty much ruin everybody's day once your senses are sharp enough to use it. This move leaves you pretty open if it's get blocked, but it's speed and priority make it one of the best tool to alternate after those attacks that invite the enemy to counter attack.
-> His df + kick slide has been weakened a lot in this game, since it was cheap in the previous games this is no surprise at all. It can still duck through fireballs, keep in mind that neither of these is very good when blocked.
-> His far standing weak kick and far standing strong kick have huge range and are decently fast, they are good to either charging his ramming move, or to slowly close in the enemy in between attacks. These are good against either crouching or standing enemies, and they are pretty much your best pokes to launch after a blocked close standing strong punch, or a blocked far standing strong punch.
-> His Mongolian Press (236 + kick) is very hard to use, while the priority of the attack is decent, it leaves you very open on block, and it's automatically directed to where the enemy is, while this makes it good to attempt to punish slow fireballs at full screen, the most interesting use of the move is hard to apply; when you are at zero range, and if possible the enemy is knocked down, performing this move will land the blow behind the enemy (hence, forcing to block in the opposite direction). While this usage seems vicious at first, the lack of flexibility that is has make it impossible to abuse and made something rather weak to use against more seasoned players. How strict is to escape this play depends on the enemy's height and on how well you did it, against certain characters this set up can be almost impossible to block. In my youth days, I got many complains from doing a close standing foward throw, running behind the enemy before they touched the ground and doing this move. For that last example, Doing throw -> running -> mongolian press; or Throw -> running -> feint -> attack / throw can be a nasty set up.
-> If you though that the Mongolian Press was hard to use, you haven't really explored the possibilities of the Mongolian Attack (charge back, foward with kick). By doing this Kharn will launch into the sky rolling, and every time he touches the roof, the floor or a corner, he will bounce and continue the move in another direction and when blocked, this move leaves you complerely open. The most basic usage of this move is to try to intercerpt jumps with the initial spin, but that's no fun. Due to the bouncing nature of the move, there are many sets ups where the enemy just doesn't really know how they should be blocking. For example, on a cornered enemy, if you do a backwards + punch throw, and then charge this move the enemy will have to block the opposite direction (and some enemies can not block this at all :P), but if instead of doing the Mongolian attack, you do the Mongolian press, they'll need to block normally... Can you see the fun yet? While someone that lives and breaths the game can easily see the difference between those two moves, this set up can perfectly evaded, this will bring mean nightmares to beginners. There are many other hard to use 'close to the corner' set ups to this move, that are only useful if you can recognize the circunstance on the spot; for example if the enemy is something like 4 step away from the corner, and you are very far to them, a Mongolian attack will bounce behind them with a pretty mean shot unless they escape foward. Making studies & strategies for this move can take a lot of time, but it's where the main fun of Kharn is. Also remember that this move is more precise when the enemy is close to the corner, because when Kharn is in mid screen, his very own movement will move the scroll and mess up your calculations for the move. Another issue is that while in mid screen, there are many easy cross up distances for big enemy characters, there are very few to small enemies. When the enemy is close to the corner many of the set ups are the same for everyone. Also remember not 'always' to aim for the cross over, for example if the enemy is being trained to block the other way against this move, landing in front, or changing this with the Tiger Flash could perfectly mess him up.
# Close standing game ->
-> His jumping strong kick doesn't seems to hit twice in this game.
-> His Mongolian dynamite (charge down, up with punch), is a very hard move to use, it doesn't have any kind of invincibility here, so you can't use it against throws anymore. This move is a very big fireball that covers Kharn's body and will launch slightly upwards when performed. And as such, you can use that extra upwards range to knock down enemies that jump in, before they can approach Kharn. This sounds all pretty and beautiful, but it's very hard to set up, recognize and to use.
-> His close standing strong punch is great, it not only hits twice, but Kharn recovers much faster than the enemy either be against block or on successful hits. For example you can link a Tiger Flash after a heatbutt that hits and it will combo, or you could link a far standing B and it will combo as well. Some of the slower characters can even have some problems dealing with close standing strong punch -> running -> close standing strong punch, of course due to push back you can't do this infinitely, and many enemies might be able to fit a jab to stop you, and that's why mixing that up with the Tiger Flash, or far standing attacks is the way to go. This set up of running -> attack is incredibly bothersome to deal with in the corner, and it could perfectly thick kill people that aren't aware of what they are doing; and will spell that in advanced game play, having Kharn not corner you, one of the most pressing matters.
-> His crouching strong kick looks a lot like his weak kick, and is pretty fast and leaves the enemy standing. While you have the upper edge if this move hits, is harder to do block pressure after this move. This kick is certainly more effective for pressure if it gets blocked. Linking, on hit, a crouching strong kick into the Tiger Flash is pretty easy, but needs the kick to hit as close as possible.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4669th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):No one escapes from Cassandra" , posted Wed 11 Feb 09:16
quote:
I have a question about the system in general. Can you explain the various strategies and set-ups linked to the fake KO action? I am used to the feint in RB2 and I am wondering to which extent I should translate what I knwo of RB2 into 2J.
You better don't, feints here are very difficult to use here, so don't expect to use them easily with specific goals like in real bout 2. Even if they are difficult to use, they still have some ups and downs for certain strategies here and there.
All 4 actions with the C button, act the same; but only the down with C button is a feint in itself. and those 4 actions are the same for every character; foward pop ups a victory pose, backwards pop ups a time over pose, neutral pops up a taunt; and down pop ups the dizziness animation.
With feints, You can't :
- you can't give a normal attack and canceling them with a feint (so, no abusable easy usage for canceling normal moves).
- You can't use a feint, and then walk
- You can't feint, then dash
- You can't feint being stunned, and speed up the stun animation (like when you are dizzied for real), however the AI can do this, and as such I believe that there it must be a way yet to be uncovered.
With feints, you can :
- charge special move with charge characters.
- cancel them with jumps
- cancel them by blocking.
- cancel them with normal attacks.
- cancel them with throws (hence, many thick throws suggestion in the thread)
- cancel them with special moves.
- cancel them with other feints (hearing NAMUBA- UON 4 times a second can have a powerfull psychological effect on the enemy).
- With certain characters, you can prevent pushback when the enemy is in the corner. Example, jumping strong kick deeply blocked against the corner, feint, thick throw.
For the record, on my circle; when we get stunned, we never try to recover from dizziness. Why?, you dare to ask? Simple. any decent player will punish stuns without giving you time to recover (aka, punish you within a second). They are not going to wait 3 or 4 seconds for you to recover, so instead of breaking down the pads, we just asume that we are going to get it. This actitude, however, powers up the down + button feint, as it will look much closer to the true stunned state.
The easiest use, in this case; is that if your character gets stunned with 4 enemy attacks, feint the stun after the thrid (if it knocks you down, it will look decently truthful, if it doesn't, everyone can tell you are faking it... expect noobs). If you have an invincible move, you might be able to stop the big jumping combo. After years of playing, it is possible to achieve the point where, among two players; you really 'cant tell for sure' if the enemy is dizzied or not, which usually resulted in punishing stuns with far distance attacks or fireballs (which, in turn where jumped & punished from time to time).
Being able to obtain the... 'true' usefulness from these feints, is very difficult, because it depends on how you train the enemy reactions. One of the main strategies we use here, is; that there are some gameplays that happen 'so fastly' that the enemy doesn't realize that they can react (and as such, they react by luck or basic instincts)... In those cases, you use the feint, as an 'alarm' to make the enemy realize that one of several options is comming. An example of this is kick jab -> feint -> throw, or quick jab, or invincible attack (this has been touched on the thread as well).
The last, easy to grasp use of the feint, will be unpredictability. For example, after long of playing against Kidd, you can certainly recognize when he is crouching (aka charging moves) or when he is standing or walking and can only get the qcf moves. In that case, at mid distance, adding a feint to the charge, can create the extra mix up necessary to add surprise to the moves and confuse the enemy and screw up some counterattack options (I was an usual victim of this; damned spiral kick).
quote:
So I guess Jet > Perfect? It's wierd cuz I see more Perfect matches on youtube than Jet matches...but I trust your opinion on this
Most of the people that tape and upload matchs, isn't really into the game. When you have no idea about a game, it's "logical" to think that latest = better.
Perfect is too Bbroken and abusive when played seriously; and as such it becomes boring fast. I havven't really seen matches that represent this (and as such, you know they are not getting the chepeast out of the characters). It's like watching a Nakoruru or Sogetsu in Kôrin, and seeing the characters not abusing throws nor their inifinites nor their far standing pokes, and as such, many people 'live' the illusion that they are balanced and the game is close to perfection (This problem is usual with many games).
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4674th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "ATA-TA-TA-TA-TATA~!!" , posted Thu 12 Feb 12:47:
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
I was thinking on using ユリアァァァァァァァァァァァァァァァァ as the catch line
End of Spoiler
Kim Dragon
Dragon has been one of the easiest characters to understand since his introduction; and was previously "number 3" on the WH2 top tier unholy triada. Dragon has always keep the core of his game clean, he is a character with cheap normal and with special moves that have very specific usages; as such, your 'reactions' are usually with his special moves and his actions are with his normal moves, playing a straight, simple and agressive game that is easily supported by his innate walking speed and jump speed (unlike most of the other 'brawlers'), making this guy one of the trademark 'one hit wonder' characters of the game. As The original Bruce Lee clone, and as any character that copies Kenshirō, Dragon has some... Interesting taunts and poses (Ten ha no kamae, anyone?)
Advantages ->
+ Simple to use
+ Strong at any distance
+ Effective special moves
Disadvantages ->
- Can be a boring 'one dimential' character if you don't learn how to play a good vs block game.
- He has hard to land and / or combos, for a character that can do pretty standard stuff, that's weird.
# Special moves ->
-> His Dragon Kick (down, up with kick, no charge) has very different angles depending on the strenght of the button, I think that this move has no invincibility what~so~ever, but it's angle and speed made it your best move to stuff in enemy actions. Since this move jumps fairly quickly, one of it's easier usages is to jump fireballs at mid or close range, hitting the enemy in the process; this requires knowledge and practice, but works beautifully when you where 'supposed' to block the fireball on some pressure strategies. If you do this kick close to the corner, you can triangle jump from it if you desire so. I believe that the strong version has invincibility before it comes out, but not once it's out, and due to this, the weak one launches faster.
-> His Hyakuretsu ken (tap punch repeteadly), it's actually difficult to use, Using it randomly will meant that the enemy will block the firsts waves of the attack, but will have time to counterattack once the last punch comes out. Knowing this, you have to use it in a way that the first waves of punches misses, and only the last part of the move gets blocked, this is very easy to do if you knock down the enemy close to you. In certain conditions, the entire move can combo, but this is pretty random and hard to achieve, and risky.
-> His 236 + kick, leaping foot slice is a somewhat weak move, it leaves you open in block, it has no invincibility at any point, it's easy to evade; and his only purpose is to be comboed from a close standing foward strong punch (be careful on not to get a throw instead). Once it hits, the enemy is knocked down in a special position, which (unlike any of your other moves) gives you plenty of time to think on what to do next, as a move, it's hard to place; but doing so has certain advantages.
-> His 214 + kick, Flying Dragon Kick can be a very evil move if you learn where to place it, his weak version hits completely in normal conditions, and it's high priority and speed make it a very good sousai move. The strong version increases the initial jump, but really doesn't improves anything else. Learning when this move will be counter attacked and when it will not, it's important. The weak version is very easy to perform as is completely safe on block (unless the diving kick gets ryu ha ~ed out off). The strong version needs more proper spacing and planning.
-> His 6321 + kick, Hundred kick moves has a very specific usage, and it's that if you can properly read a jump in certain angle, this move will most defenetly hurt a lot. It has a very bad hit box from outside that specific "anti air angle". If, for some reason; the enemy chooses to block the last kick, you are not exactly screwed... At least, you are much less screwed than if the enemy ducks it. This, along with the dragon kick, the flying dragon kick and preemptive jumps 'completes' your anti air game, every move must be used at different angles and speeds to stuff different kinds (angles) of jumps.
# Using his normals ->
-> His triangle jump is very quick and very offensive, try to get used to it.
-> Dragon normals are mostly easy to use and understand. He has a command df + strong kick while in mid air, that has a different angle than most of his other moves, and as such it can knock out easily attacks that the other moves can not.
-> His weak attacks are very fast; for example a close standing jab to crouching strong kick or close standing strong kick or punch will actually combo (but needs to be done closely), his crouching jab is fast enough to do those examples good on block, but will not combo upon hit. His close standing and crounching weak kicks are good enough to attempt pressure like those, but they are much slower. It's actually because they are slower, that an enemy that's used to quick mix ups might fall for it. As a character who's jab can be crouched, you should know that whiffed jab to throw can be useful. I recall that crouching jab, crouching low kick does combo. His far standing foward with weak attacks moves are very quick and with decent range, don't forget about them.
-> His close standing strong punch is quick, but leaves you open on block. In an opposite manner, his foward with close standing strong punch is slower, but grants you marvelous opportunities to follow up, like sweeps or any of his foward moves, or running again with that move or a close standing strong kick. You can combo the first hit of his cls strong punch, but it was hard as hell to do so; and was the gateway to your longer jab combos (Like, cross over strong kick, standing jab x 2, close standing strong punch (1 hit), dragon kick). If you land a very deep jump, a foward with strong punch will combo, but this is hard to adjust and to achieve.
-> His close standing strong kick recovers fairly fast when blocked, and usual preemptives follow ups are either foward + strong move or a crouching strong kick. His far standing foward with strong punch is very fast and recovers very nicely from block, allowing more iniciative, but it's somewhat with against low attacks. His far standing foward with strong kick, on the contrary; needs a lot of space, but it's very strong if properly spaced against sweeps.
-> His crouching strong punch is slow to come out, but it's his easier to cancel than the standing strong punch. Since it pushes the enemy very far from you if it hits, your most likely combo chance is the weak dragon kick. It recovers decently fast enough to be of some use when pressuring.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 12 Feb 16:13] |
| Toxico 4676th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Perestroika" , posted Fri 13 Feb 04:36
····· Since I can do two characters a day, maybe someone else can as well? (Yes, I know I'm evil じょ~じょ~じょ~
Rasputin
This sacred unholy monk was previously "number 2" in the WH2 unholy triada, he was a character that had the best overhead of the game (along with strong, cancelable sweeps; that made for nightemerish mix ups), strong 50% damage submission throws, infinite combos, stun combos, frame traps and an effective, interesting fighting style that used high priority attacks and was very different from most of other characters... Unfortunately, even with all those resources, he could still not take the top title and absolute dominance from 「her」, evil inhuman being who's name will be forbbiden from now on ♥.
However, our proud pionner, creator of the 'aerial fireball', and the 'aerial tatsumaki' Rasputin has not any reason to lurk in the past (aka, 2 brokeness); our onminious 聖帝 has been deprived from his inifinte, his incredible annoying overhead and his stuns combos, leaving at his disposal "only" the frame traps and a strong 'contact' game play... only with that Rasputin manages to keep his unique style, making him and incredibly fun character to use and a character that needs to achieve specific goals when fighting, that are the gateway to a fun battle. Rasputin mainly has two general logics, one is 'gainning' time to use his slow moves (like his two fireballs), and the other is 'keeping' the enemy from 'gainning' time using agressive links and frame traps. Oh, and be sure to enjoy Rasputin here, as he will suffer from what we I call The Brocken syndrome and will become completely dull and unflexible in Perfect (if you ever touch that).
Advantages ->
+ Unorthodox, albeit easy to understand offensive logic.
+ Unorthodox 'movement' tactics.
Disadvantages ->
- Being able to use everything needs proper timming and criteria, has unorthodox defensive tactics.
- He is a 'hit per hit' character (albeit, a very fun one to use).
# Pokes ->
-> His throws, despise appereances, are very different from each other. It's impossible to escape before the 6th hit of his punch throw, and as such; it will be good damage even if the enemy is a stronger tapper than you, and even with that you can still improve the damage by smashing the buttons faster. His kick throw, only hits twice if you don't improve it by tapping, but since the throw is 'slow' to punish, you have a lot of time to tap wildly, and as such it's 'easier' to improve if you are just as quick, or quicker tapper than the enemy.
-> His jump is mainly thought to attack while in mid air, and then don't following up with combo, is mainly meant to pressure and to counter attack. And as such, try to land somewhat far from the enemy, as if you land close, and attacked much earlier you will definately eat a throw. His weak jumping attacks are used just like his strong ones, but require less accuracy and are a little bit less strong priority wise.... There is not a real reason to stop abusing his strong attacks.
-> His only command move is his far standing foward strong punch, it has huge range, but since it recovers somewhat slowly, it's hard to place. Learn where this move should fit the best, or where a crouching strong punch would be a better option
-> You really can't tell by looks, but he has a far standing strong kick, and a close standing strong kick. The difference between the two, is that the close standing one can be canceled, but the cancel window for it happens pretty kickly. His close standing punch is cancelable as well, but since it comes out a tad bit slower, it can't be applied in certain strategies (like, early jump attack -> strong kick, or close standing jab -> strong kick -> special move).
-> His close standing jabs are pretty fast and good for combos and pressure, combos like close standing jab x 2, crouching strong kick / cossack kicks / axle spin / far standing strong kick, are possible. Since the enemy can crouch this, sometimes is only advisable to use one jab, and then a crouching jab afterwards, canceled in a special move. If the enemy is trained to block, linking slow moves after the jabs, like the crouching strong punch, or close standing strong punch, could be good for pressure. His crouching jab can be canceled, but can't be linked to strong attacks. Since his jab can be ducked by some characters, whiffing it and throwing can make wonders.
-> His crouching weak kick is kinda hard to use, when blocked you recover nearly at the same time than the enemy, and as such; a crouching weak kick, followed by and axle spin or a far standing attack can be pretty good 'traps', to prevent counter attacks. If the enemy won't counter attack after a blocked kick, a crouching strong kick or a crouching strong punch are also good means to follow up and will end up the pressure.... But perhaps, they are not as good as a crouching jab or another crouching weak kick.
-> His crouching strong punch is a very important move, it's speed and range are pretty good, and it's easy to cancel it (but that needs to be delayed a little bit), it's one of the best punches to follow up a fireball. Fireball, dashing crouching strong punc, fireball or axle spin or cossack kicks happens are meant as one of the offensive cores of the character.
-> As far as I have tested, there is no 'death point' between the two hits of his crouching strong kick, and the move is somewhat safe on block (through, you won't keep the offensive edge).
-> He has, like most of the rest of the cast; an air defense that is extremely varied and needs you to pop up almost every solution according to the circunstances. His far standing neutral strong puch is an incredibly strong against air attacks, but it has the draw back that it is a far standing attack, and as such, if the jump of the enemy is close, it won't come out. All of his jumping attacks are strong against jumps, but his strong punch is meant to attack ground enemies, and as such his angle is hard to use in air to air battles. His jumping strong kick is incredibly strong and abusive, everyone in the game will have problems besting it in air to air battles, even Mud man, even Dragon, even Kid.... Even 「her」. Against certain cross ups attempts, running behind the enemy and doing a far standing strong kick can be pretty effective, but hard to recognize and place properly.
# General ->
-> His Fireball (236 + punch) is his most basic move, the fireball is very slow to come out, but it recovers expremely fast. From cero distance it is possible to do a fireball, and the combo a strong attack, with such insane speed, attacking after a fireball quickly becomes one of Rasputin's more fun gameplay options, if the enemy is naive enough to jump after the fireball is out from not so close, you can easily stuff them up with a jumping or standing strong kick (being the former one the easiest one to use). If the enemy choose only 'to block' (or is it made to do so) you can perfectly run after the firebaball and do a strong attack with another fireball. To prevent the enemy from jumping the second fireball every time, second thoughts from a mix up will be necessary, which will include giving the strong attack, without following it up, or following up the strong attack with a delayed cossack kick. This fireball is so fast to recover, that it will be usable even against people that can reflect fireballs with a 100% accuracy. Remember than the strong fireball is harder to jump from mid distance, and harder to follow up with dashing as well.
-> His aerial fireball is extremely hard to use, but an experience Rasputin player can easily recognize which ground attacks and which air attack will be stuffed by a fireball, at which angle. Tsubamegaeshi~ish the move is not extremely useful, but it's fun to shut down certain sweeps from mid range
-> His thunderbolt move (41236 + punch) his very hard to use, and someone that does not know the possibilities of the move will dismiss it as bad. First, this move recovers a little bit slowlier than the normal fireball, and it comes out much slower than the other move (this is actually a positive thing). The strong version will travel very fast, while the weak one will travel a tad bit slower. An extremely advanced play with this move, that needs an enemy that can reflect fireballs accurately. From mid distance, and if possible with the enemy knocked down, throw this in a manner that it will come out just as they stand up. Since they travel at different speeds, reflecting them will have different timmings, and the short distance will make them unable to distinguish which one was used by view; and as such instincts will take over. If the enemy was expecting a weak fireball and you used a strong one, they will eat them (due to having the control in neutral, prior to the reflect). If they where expecting a strong one, and you launched a weak one, they will eat it if they aren't used tohold back after bouncing a fireball (I know I'm not, nor my friends). At the proper distance, you can even bounce back a successfuly bounced fireball (though, I usually did this from close, leaving me open if the fireball was returned, in order to encourage the enemy to try it, and trusting my 'close to mind read' gut feelings, completely. On block, this move behaves similar to the other fireball, meaning that you can chase after it and add pressure, but it's only a bit harder to do so, and you won't be able to combo from it on hit (but you'll get a good, long knock down from it). I used to score a lot of these traps, witout no one from the audience even realizing how I was toying with their young, innocent minds.
-> His cossack kicks (236 + kick) is a move that allows such a huge freedom that can't be called anything but evil (or perhaps, holy). Strong and weak both hit twice, but the weak one rises only a little, while the strong one goes crazy in the height department... The priority of this move isn't high, but instead of a ryu ha, this move is mainly thought to be used as a mix up move, where the enemy was getting ready to jump a fireball but the kick nails them
before they could left the ground and without them knocking you out of the move because they weren't thinking on attacking yet. You can also combo it from either strong or weak attacks. Similar to the Axle spin, you have complete movement freedom during the move, which could
translate on landing far away, pseudo safely, or close to the enemy; within the possibility of another attack / throw. The important thing here is to fool the enemy on where you are going to land next, but with this move this set up is not as 'powerful' as it is with the Axle spin. Similar to the axle spin, you can make crazy stuff as, directing the first kick away from the enemy, and the second one towards the enemy, attempting to catch him by surprise, to then land as far as you can. Or directing all kicks towards the enemy, while lading behind them at the last moment, making it hard to punish you due to the lag of the 'turn around' factor (this is insanely hard to accomplish but great if you get a hold off). Or lading as far away as you can, even outside the range from most long range moves of the game, without attacking at all. Be aware, that some characters can duck the second kick.
-> His Axle spin (214 + Kick) is a move that has huge possibilities, and a move that will greatly increase the efficience and fun factor of Rasputin, as a basic usage; you'll soon discover that this move is, perhaps, the quickest from long range within your arsenal (even though the hitbox is not ubberly strong). But this move usage is not only worth 'as a hit', but the fact that you have complete control over it's movement, give room for marvelous strategies. For example, if you knockdown an enemy (let's make it easy, let's say a thunderbolt hits), then approach as fast as you can the enemy, and stand somewhat close to them, jump foward and use this move before they stand up. Due to homming nature of the move, you might choose to go behind the enemy character, or you can perfectly choose to go back to your initial position; forcing the enemy to 'choose' how to block this tactic, and as such; this can be a pretty good mix up (but it's hard to use, due to Rasputin's low and slow jump), a good point to this is that you are left pretty safe if this game play gets blocked, you can even have the offensive edge if it gets blocked deeply. A similar strategy can be used with the standing version of the move, where once blocked the move you can choose to leave the move blocked, you can choose to withdraw the move when the last attack is blocked (which would be sane, since the move leaves you open on block), but the withdrawal itself can be a trick, because you can only withdraw, to force the enemy to chase you, or retrart a little, and then approach the enemy; if the enemy gets surprised by this, you can easily land a throw... And added benefict to this strategy, is that if the enemy is expecting you to stop close to them, the withdraw will be 'stronger', as chances are that you won't be chased after. There are even more advanced version of that tactic, where you get the firsts hit blocked of the move, then step away from the enemy, and then, before the move finishes, you close in with the last attack of the move, if the enemy was expecting the move to end, or was trying to chase after you, or misplaced a counter attack, they will be nailed by the spin (and from that last hit, you can apply the other mix up as well). There are other mix ups that are possibe, and I could perfectly go in a 20 pages tesis of how the move can be used (including some of those Shizumaru's hypnotism tecniques), but I better leave room for you to investigate and being creative, and leave room for me, to write 20 less pages.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4679th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Ora Ora Ora. salary man no jutsu" , posted Fri 13 Feb 10:00
quote:
But when I'm done, I will only have broken-Aulbath and poor Jedah ! Go me !
Me never loses  Only Rippa- & the two salty skins are left to go ・・・叫べ・・・叫べ・・・
All of this talk of speed, pressure and chains, inspired me to finish up earlier one of the write ups.
Fuuma Kotaroh
While is true that Fuuma and Hanzou where build from the same basis back in WH1, almost inmediatly by the time of the second game there it was already some pretty nasty differences that took them apart on quite some few aspects. This evil salary man was a pretty buff & obscene character to use back in 2, being strong over all and being much more useful than Hanzou due to his raw, easy to understand offensive potential and general swiftness. Fortunately for us, Fuuma keeps the concept of his onminious strenghts, but to a much less brocken degree, this along with the new found running ability makes him a pretty versatile character, and that is fun to move around even though most of his tactics are pretty basic.
Fuuma as it is, should be described as a hunter, he focuses on chasing down the enemy, and pestering as much as he can through the entire fight. His skills are unlike many other characters, that have thick throw steps or frame traps or plain pressure with abusive moves; Fumma's gameplay is much more Fatal Fury special alike, he poses a huge array of links and long pressure combo options, mean to irritate an enemy that isn't willing counter attack due to the possibility of invincible attacks or throws set ups. Fuuma's basis is pushing the enemy into blocking, but never leaving clear signs on when the enemy can retaliate, due to changes on the tempo, moves used, distance and preemptive options that he has. If you are into those 'chain combo, fast paced' games; you might be able to see some possitive assests on Fuuma's varied pseudo permanent bulldozing gameplay.
Advantages ->
+ Simple, fun and flexible within his own game play concept.
+ Due to his incredibly heavy 'frame advantage' game, he easily gives the impression of being one of the game fastest characters (comparable to Dragon)
+ Complete, well rounded character.
Disadvantages ->
- Too standard for some tastes.
- Can be slow and unflexible from long range counterattack perspective.
- En ryu > Koh ryu as a counter attack... But that's relative
# Offensive ->
-> Fuuma is, perhaps, the only character of the game who's entire normal move assest is 100% useful to attack, and as such there is a huge amount of pressure strings that he can use, and frame traps in the "should I stay or should I go" fashion. Easily, Fuuma's gameplay basis is the his ability to link a crounching weak kick after a crounching jab, and said kick can be linked to several strong attacks, which in return can be canceled, or leave you in and advantageous position, which in turn open good oportunities to run with jabs, or more strong attacks... Can you see where this is headed yet?
-> Using the previous explanation, your better "on hit" combos are:
- crouching jab, crouching weak kick, crouching strong kick from mid distance.
- crouching jab, crouching weak kick, foward with strong kick from mid distance.
- crouching jab, crouching weak kick, far standing strong punch from mid distance.
- crouching weak kick, crouching strong kick of foward with strong kick from long range.
- crouching jab x 2, crouching weak kick, foward with strong kick from the closest range.
- close standing weak kick, crouching jab, crouching weak kick, foward with strong kick from closest possible range.
- far standing strong kick, foward with strong kick, from medium range. This one is hard to land due to the shortness of the first hit. It's actually trickier if the first hit misses and the second one punishes a counter attack, in that fashion, you could technically whiff several far standing kicks, until the enemy chooses to retaliate.
-> Everything should still be 'clear', but to that we will add that strong "against block" combos:
- every previous combo.
- crouching jab, crouching weak kick, crouching strong punch. From close range (the crouching strong punch has some very interesting tidbits, detailed below).
- close standing strong punch, foward with strong kick or far standing strong punch.
- far standing strong punch, foward with strong kick, this actually combos from certain ranges.
- far standing jab, far standing strong punch.
- far standing weak kick, far standing strong punch. The strong punch is strong against blocks, but if you think that the enemy will retaliate replace it with a foward strong kick or a crouching strong kick.
-> Added to that, remember to use logic with all of the previous combo, like adding jabs from close to a far standing weak kick, or following up a "on hit" combo like the weak kick and a far standing strong punch, with running and more attacks. Even simple patterns like running strong punch, running strong punch are tough enough to pressure the enemy.
-> While running with standing attacks that are strong against blocks, there are some pokes that can stop or sousai you out of it, remember to mix up with crouching attacks as well, such as weak kicks or strong kicks, which are needed to be stopped differently, even if they don't leave you in a much advantegeous position.
-> His crouching standing strong punch his very special, unlike his crouching strong kick, is very easy to cancel it into special moves, and not only that, but it can be cancelled when the move is starting, of when the move is close to finishing. This particular delay is useful to use a rekkodan to stop possible enemy counter attacks due to the temptation of the delayed attack. In order to combo, you have to cancel it on the initial frames, in order to obtain the biggest push back, you need to cancel it on it's finishing frames, and in order to counter attack enemy actions, you have to time it with the possible enemy response; if the enemy is expecting a follow up to this punch, then not canceling is also a mix up by itself. This sole little punch can make a very interesting universe of it's own. Lastly, remember that since the punch is slow, in order not to be stuffed with better attacks all the time, it's required to mix up how many attacks you give prior to it, sometimes do one jab, some other do a jab and a weak kick, some other do no jab, or do 3 weak attacks prior to it.... use your instincts and trainning.
# General ->
-> His double jump is very large, so it's hard to use in pressure tactics, at most it's effective to chase an enemy that's really far away, some 'jump foward toward the corner, jump backwards toward the middle of the screen' Hanzou like mix up tactics are still aplicable, but have different tempo. No short jump for this guy, but if you are in a playful mood, you can attempt to double jump things like en / koh ryu has, it's possible to do so.
-> If you are awake, you can land easily his air throw in air to air battles, the pseudo low speed of his jump and the menace of the strenght of his pokes make it easier to use than other
air throwers.
-> His reppu zan travels a little bit slower than Hanzou's rekko; not only that, but Fuuma has faster, better mid range pokes to chase after the move, making pursuing it one of this
character's main tactics, just has Hanzou's remember that his double reppu is bigger and as such is harder to dodge by sweeps, but recovers slower than the normal reppu.
-> His weak en ryu ha is very short, very very short (but that doesn't mean that you won't eat something big if it gets blocked), his large en ryu ha is lunges much higher. His uppercut not only recover's faster and safer than Hanzou's, but the first hit is also quicker than his. Since it recovers pretty fast, you can do some good spacing stragies, like ryu ha, back dash, reppu zan & running foward. Similar to Hanzou, cls strong punch to ryu ha hurts more than it should, and if you are a man, you will predict en ryu has from your pseudo infinite running pressure game, to make it more menacing and to encourage blocking more.
-> His aerial en ryu ha is too hard to use; it needs a very accertive mind, and it is very weak against attacks from below, and it's exactly like the normal ryu ha but in air. It's main use is to stop another Fumma from jumping twice over a ground en ryu ha 
-> His furin kazan is hard to use; the weak one is quick to launch and as such it can be comboed from a close standing C, but it last too long, and as such is very risky if it doesn't hit. The strong version travels a greater lenght, and is faster, and is easier to jump fireballs with it; but it's too erratic to properly calculate. If the enemy tends to block standing this move (no such person exist), the strong one has a small and incredibly hard chance to go through them and do an unblockable cross up, but due to the nature off the move this is pretty random; and people will learn that they must crouch to this move very quickly. Since both, the strong one and the weak one last very long, you can't really use a 'teaser' tactic of finishing the move shortly, and then stopping retaliations with ryu has.
-> His 632147 + punch move is extremely hard to use, it needs a year to come out, it's damage is low and it's not perfect on block (but it's almost safe). There are some weird tactcis with him, such as using it as a cross over (this is very hard and risky, because it needs to be done from pretty close); the other better strategy is, this move hits 3 times in block (once when it's travling, and twice when it lands), you can time it as such that the first hit is blocked, but the second hit misses; if the enemy tries to attack then, the thrid hit will nail them. This is hard to achieve and doesn't grant you too much damage, but if you can pull it out certainly, it can, sometimes, add that extra hit necessary to the knock out.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4683th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Fara í víking" , posted Mon 16 Feb 02:57
quote:
.....comes 100% from his own fascinating and deranged mind
For the record, I'm planning on doing a 'closing words' post at the end of it all, adding a review of some sorts of the game with my own personal take. Of course, I'm only telling you this because I hope for someone to do that after finishing first
Eric the Viking
This Olaf character here, is simplily one of the easiest brawlers to use, he uses such a simple one hit wonder long range fighting style that it can quite easily relate him to Ryofu, unlike Ryofu, however he can do a certain limited amount of frame traps and poses a good invincible move that he can use as both, a sousai move and to evade attacks and throws, as well as a very strong, fast overhead attack.
Such as Ryofu, Eric's basis is keep hinself hitting at the proper range, even if the enemy can foresee what the character will do, stopping him will be something difficult, as most of his pokes are fast and accurate.
Advantages ->
+ Hulk strikes! Eric is a character with strong and high priority normal moves
+ Hulk reaches! Most his important pokes have huge range that can be easily abused.
Disadvantages ->
- Hulk misses! Many of his obscene range pokes have poor recovery, and his light pokes aren't that good.
- Hulk.... Well, that's exactly it; he is a very primitive and persistent character that needs to fight it out using very basic resourses.
# Normal moves ->
-> His jump is very slow, and most of his moves have pretty clear usages. His better air attacks are his strong kick for air to air battles, and his down with strong punch for cross overs. His jumping strong punch has an almost sharp angle, but it's hard to measure, even though is very strong in certain circunstances.
-> His jumping weak kick is very special, as soon as the move is done, Eric will dive with a... How should I put this? body slam? This move knocks down when it hits, and as such; this jumping attack can easily be used as an overhead from short range. The withdraw from this, however, is that Eric's low attacks are risky, and as such; a mid / low mix up can be risky if the enemy has good senses / reflexes to block, or if the enemy has the initiative, the moves are hard to place.
-> His only quick weak attacks is his crouching jabs; and as such it can be repeated easily with little room for punishment, most of the other weak attacks recover slowly, and can easily give the initiative to the enemy. If the enemy is not really aware, a standing or crouching low kick followed by a crouching strong kick can quickly knock down a confident and inefficient enemy retaliation, but it is not something abusable due to the risk involved. You can replace the sweep with a far standing neutral strong punch, to keep the block pressure.
-> His crouching strong punch is not a low attack (even though it does knock down, similar to a sweep), and his foward with strong punch is a very long range, and knock downs the enemy on hit. His crouching strong punch actually has some decent recovery, so you can use it for poking if you don't want to risk the sweep.
-> His close standing strong kick is one of his main moves, it's not only quick, but it recovers verry quickly, and as such it is possible to link other moves after it. You can also, cancel this move with your special move for added fun. From close distance, a close standing strong kick, crouching strong kick will combo (but will not combo from afar, since the sweep is faster from closer distance). Due to the quick recovery of the move, you can do certain traps like doing a close standing strong kick, canceled into a blizzard breath, if the enemy tried to jump the breath (which can be easy in normal circunstances), they will quickly discover that they wouldn't be able to, due to the guard stun that they suffered from the kick. If the enemy refuses to jump, you can replace the breath with the Thor hammer, a move that is very strong against mid range standing enemies, is pretty decent in block, but it's dangerous if jumped.
-> His crouching strong kick is long and has huge range, but recovers like a whale stucked on the beach if blocked.
-> His neutral standing strong punch has some very good upward range, it can be used to stop jumps if you train yourself properly, but it's incredibly hard to achieve so.
# General ->
-> His 214 + kick move is slow to come out, and slow to recover; and as such is not advisable to be used from close. This move, however, travels somewhat slowly, and as such is good for using it from long distance and running after it with pressure. Since it knocks down on hit, you won't be able to combo from it if it hits.
-> His Long Horn move (charge back, foward with punch) has a small invincibility at the start up, and is a normal, high priority move once it launches. It can certainly beat many attacks in the game if you learn when and how to use it, it's your main defensive move, so do learn when and how to use it. Remember that the weak version and the strong version travel at different speeds and different lenghts, and if the move gets blocked Eric wll 'rebound', so be careful of the characters that can easily punish you from that. Remember that this is a strong frontal attack, so a properly placed cross over, or a sharp angle jump will stuff a badly placed long horn easily.
-> His Blizzard Breath (41236 + punch) is hard to use, due to the height of the move it can actually used to stop jumps that aren't going to land close to you; but that usage is pretty rare. Another use is, once the enemy is knocked down, use a strong blizzard breath, and time it such as that it gets blocked on the latest frames, if you do that correctly, you will have a small, offensive edge over the enemy that will allow you to add more attacks. A mix up from this, will be using with that very same tempo the weak blizzard breath, with this the move will stop before the enemy stand ups, and will still give you time to add pokes once the enemy stand ups. With this, if the enemy was expecting a weak blizzard breath, and standed up with quick, strong moves, but you did the strong breath, they will get frozen. This is all, hard to apply, but it's actually very strong and variable on the corner, one of the best knock downs set up to it is a throw, or a successful far standing foward with strong punch. Also, jumping strong kick, cls strong kick, weak breath hurts a lot. You can even replace it with a weak thor hammer if you prefer, and will combo as well. Remember that this move 'will not be canceled' if it's blocked, and will not hit more than once, and as such, if you get the strong version blocked early, you will recieve punishment. If you want the move to hit early, use the weak one instead.
-> His Thor Hammer (214 + punch) is similar to the breath on that corner strategy, but it's a little bit harder to place. The move will grant you decent recovery if it gets blocked, but the hammer itself can only hit when it's on the ground, and as such, if the enemy can pin point a proper jump; or if the enemy is too close to you, and far from the hammer, you'll get nailed for sure, as the move will miss. The previous knockdown -> early special move strategy can be applied with this move at the proper range as well, but since both hammers have a similar duration, you will only do this in the interest of better recovery to add more pokes, instead of doing whacky mix ups with it.
-> In this game, and this game alone Eric will have a command throw that can be done with 641236 + punch. This throw really doesn't fit Eric's style, has he is a mid distance brawler, and he has weak jabs set ups to throws. Not only that, but if you fail to get the move in the right conditions, the blizzard breath will come out, which will most likely leave you completely naked against that close standing enemy. It's most reasonable set ups, is, after the 'frame advantage' strategies with the throw hammer and the breath from before, and against a cornered enemy, run and thick throw after them, instead of using strong pokes as usual. If you time the throw incorrectly, the breath will come out, and you will get nailed, so be sure to properly judge and train this if you want to use it. Mixing breath (hits), breath (whiff), pokes or throw can be tricky to learn, but it's where your true happiness lies.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 28/01/09 (96 personajes)
|
| Toxico 4684th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Aye-aye, sir" , posted Thu 19 Feb 14:58
Captain Kidd
This incredibly evil pirate has known how to keep himself not only strong, but also decently interesting and fun in every game that he has been. Not to mention the simple fact that he gains inmense charisma due to a simple fact: bar brawl fighting > evey other fighting style.
Kidd isn't a character that is subtle in his fighting way, he has some very good and pretty tough mid range normal moves to keep him slugging it for as long as necessary, and said normals grant him incredible freedom. Most of Kidd's counter attacks options come from his charge moves, however unlike others he won't meet victory crouching in the corner and pressing medium kick until the enemy's knees are discapacitated; Kidd is proactive, and one of the keys to make him a fun character is learning how to charge, while pressing foward and keeping yourself close to the enemy.
Advantages ->
+ Versatile, aggressive and fun.
+ In the game, he surely is the character that could probably benefict the most from far distance feints.
Disadvantages ->
- Is hard to understand his mid distance 'charging' game.
- Hard to measure (but fun to use) moves.
# Closing in ->
-> One of the main uses for Kidd's close in game is running behind his quick recovery Shark Knuckle (charge back, foward with punch), the weak punch one will travel very slowly and as such is perfect to chase after. The strong one will travel very fastly and as such, should be used to stop mid range attacks or to pressure the enemy who is attempting to take offensive actions. This move is also very effective when used from close, and then following it up with quick attacks like the command far standing kick or his 63214 + kick moves, but don't remember not being predictable to prevent eating aerial combos.
-> Kidd's jump is very high, but his cross over attack is very precise. Kidd's normal are very aggressive while in mid air, his strong kick has huge priority, and his strong punch has an incredible sharp angle that's hard to get used to, but extremely effective once you do so. Walking and persisting with those far standing pokes is important for his gameplay, but that much should be obvious.
-> His Shark Kick (while in air, down or down-foward with strong punch) is a pretty sharp and quick move to cancel the jump, or cover great lenghts. The one downside of the move is that when it hits or gets blocked, Kidd will 'rebound' with a back jump that could perfectly get punished. Outside this logical and proper backlash, the move itself has many and varied uses, remember that this move can cancel Kidd's abnormaly high jump, so some plays like jumping a crouching strong kick and diving with this kick to punish the enemy are possible. The problem is if you dive with the kick, when the enemy is doing nothing. At least I, due to certain Suija intensive trainning, I'm able to discern when I should and when I shouldn't dive with the move to punish enemy actions. This move has many other usages, but those will be reviewed later.
-> Kidd's foward (or backwards) with strong kick is a very good move from almost close range, while it's range "isn't much" compared with other moves used to approach, unlike others the move is very safe on block and won't need any kind of special spacing to be safe. It is advisable, to land it from it's maximum possible range, as that will make it hard for the enemy to dash in with command grabs.
-> His Hyper Dash Kick (63214 + kick) his a very important move when you learn where to place it, this move is weak against low attacks, so using it 'just for the kicks' will get you knocked out of it easily. Also, if this move stops close to the enemy, it's very likely that you'll eat a quick sweep / poke or a throw; so the best way to use this move is to chase a shark knucke from afar, or to finish up a normal attack pressure string. The angle of this move also make it good to catch an enemy that is starting to jump, or that his jumping far away from you (but this is very hard to meassure). The weak version lands pretty close to your starting position, but the strong version travels almost the entire screen. From very far distance and from a strong shark knucke, it can perfectly combo. Remember that (as said) if the enemy is too close, and you will be left open, and as such you should replace it with his command far standing kick, or dashing with attacks (from a shark knuckle). Some characters are able to duck this move, and some other characters are able to duck this move normally, but if they are being comboed the move will connect no matter what. Study this move.
# Buying time ->
-> Most of Kidd's close in game allows him to gain 1 second or less of that valuable 'charge' time... but, that one second is not enough to get those charge times; and as such you'll have to buy one or two seconds more while crouching somewhat close to the enemy. The most basic tactic to buy time are using his crouching jabs or crouching low kicks to keep the enemy blocking, and take preemptive actions with your counter attack moves, or keeping the pressure with the shark knuckle. You can also try to buy time with the far standing backwards strong punch, or a far standing weak kick, but remember that those are standing attacks, and as such you'll lose the invincibility of the shark upper.
-> ... However, those crouching attacks will most likely not always stop enemy counterattacks, and as such, you have to think on alternatives to stop the opposition. If the enemy is (or most likely was pushed) too far away, standing right there without attacking could perfectly keep you on the safe range, and as such using a low kick to further buy time. This is where the fun starts: At far distance, your goal is to attack not at the same time as the enemy, but rather attacking before they strike, or afterwards. Since the enemy is 'aware' that a tempo fight is comming, you can perfectly use the down back (or back) with C feint once, two or several times, in order to give less predictability to When and what is comming. Using this play requires good instincts and a lot of experience and proper criteria on what's going on, who you are fighting and what is your current range, but this is certainly one of Kidd's most important moments, as it is circunstance that you will stumble upon several times while playing him.
-> 'Give up', exactly as it sounds, this means; giving up your charge time, if you do so you could perfectly keep advancing foward with aggressive pokes, or back dashing retaliations, or jumping foward (with or without the shark kick) to stop enemy actions.
-> His down foward + kick air move has some very interesting charcteristics, which usually take good place on your 'give up game'; for example, less say that you jump and want to try to cross up the enemy. As soon as you jump, keep holding downfoward. When the jump is at certain height, use the kick, and it will miss and land far away from the enemy. due to using down, you already have 'ready' the shark upper, your invincible move. Since you where holding 'foward' before switching sides, you won't be able to get quickly the other charge moves, but remember that you have the pirate ship as well, or you could perfectly drop the charge and go foward. A 'backwards' jump version of this trick has very different atributes; first you jump backwards, as far as you can from the enemy, and then you dive with this kick, trying to land somewhat far away from the enemy (like, two bodies away); at this distance, you could perfectly stuff in anything with the upper, and will be in range to use normal attacks if you believe that the enemy won't attack. The irony, as well as the fun; is that all of this shark kick strategies work wonderfully... From a successful Shark upper. Remember that in order to properly charge from this jump, you have to cancel the jump pretty lately, if you cancel it early; you will most likely need to buy time, instead of getting the moves right away. Also, if this move gets blocked (or hits) at his deepest point (almost literally ground level), Kidd won't bounce from it, this is incredibly hard to achieve.
# General ->
-> He has an extra, uncancelable taunt with A + B + C, just like Mudman.
-> His far standing neutral strong kick, and his crouching punch are both, cancelable and his most reliables no charge air defense, along with his air to air game.
-> His close standing jab can be ducked by certain characters (so, whiff -> taunt -> throw can go). If it gets blocked, it has very little push back, so walk -> throw might be useful). Some characters can also duck his foward with strong punch, but against those that don't (or who's game play does not make it natural to do so) is a very strong poke.
-> His main combo is, close standing weak kick -> close standing strong punch -> 63214 + kick (or spiral kick). You can replace the special move with the pirate ship, but the timming to make it combo his hard (and is advisable to use the strong version of it hits, and the weak version if it's going to get blocked). Close standing weak kick -> crouching strong kick vsn also combo. Crouching jab (once or twice), far standing neutral strong kick combos against some characters, but the kick can be ducked (and can be canceled). Crouching jab, crouching strong kick combos as well, but it's timming his hard to get.
-> His Pirate Ship (236 + punch) is very quick to come out, and is similar to the shark knucle in the sense that the weak one will travel slowly, and the strong one will be very fast. The main withdraw from this move, however, is that is very slow to recover, and as such, there are many opportunities where the move is risky (for example, from close many characters will be able to score hits after blocking it). This move, however, it can be useful in many situations when you might need mid distance pressure, and there is no way to charge shark knuckle (like, walking or running foward with an anti air, or sweep while being on the offensive). One of the good points of this move, is that after you recover from it, you most likely are done with charging the next move. There is one catch to this, however. While the pirate ship is on screen, you can't use other fireball based moves, like the upper or the knucle, and this also counts when the ship gets blocked, once that happens the ship needs sometime to 'sink', and it is after that is gone, that you can use other fireball moves (fact that adds a pretty mean and nasty delay). And as such, following it up with the spiral kick or the 63214 + kick moves would be better idea, as it will give the enemy less time to react. How often this move is used, depends on how you play.
-> The Shark Knucke also shares the ship's issue that while it's on screen, you can use other fireball based move (so no fireball -> uppercut, even if you have them already charged). However, the shark vanishs fairly quickly once it's blocked or hits, and as such is a less serious matter.
-> His Spiral Kick (charge back, foward with kick) is a very useful move, it has an a·m·a·z·i·n·g·l·y huge range, and is decently quick to come out. This move can actually stop a lot of jumps when they are at far distance, and at the proper height (this actually happens a lot if they jump a pirate ship on irregular conditions. This move can hit twice if the enemy is in the ground for an amazing damage. Also, a very hard use of the move is to duck fireballs, since Kidd ends up very close to the ground, there is a good chance that if you do it early, timming it against a small mid high fireball, Kidd will duck the attack and hit the enemy; this is more useful to punish some of pressure tactics that are meant to prevent you from jumping, but it's hard to achieve. Since Kidd's close standing strong punch and crouching punch are very hard to cancel, it's difficult to combo into this, but possible from a close standing strong punch or a crouching one. Study this move.
-> His Shark Upper has a an almost complete invincibility window, and as such is very well suited to stop throw attemps and any kind of attacks. Be careful as, once Kidd stops his hand to launch the shark, he is vulnerable on the latest frames (albet, it's a very samll window). be assertive with the angle. Knowing when and what to stop with this move is extremely important, it doesn't matter 'what' is being stopped (a close standing poke, a far standing one or a misplaced jump). While is impossible that the hook catches a cross over enemy, remember that he launches a fireball upwards, and that shark can snatch the enemy before they are behind you (this is incredibly hard to achieve, but keep it in mind). The shark is also stronger than the 'uppercut' of the move to catch an enemy that will land not so close to you. Study this move.
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 17/02/09 (98 personajes)
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| Toxico 4719th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Oh mai go-d" , posted Wed 18 Mar 01:21
If you think that I forgot, then you are not evil enough.
Jack The Ripper
While I only faced this character every now and then, I had an incredibly shallow idea of what his game play was about and I quickly dismissed him as 'It's just as simple as Ryofu', Years later when I actually bothered to touch the character, I quickly understand that Jack is a strange mix between simple gameplay and complicated to understand attacks; a Jack player needs to asimilate several restrictions and manners of use that are very specific and create a very specific 'field of action' for the character. As such, Jack gameplay is usually split in pressure and counter attack like most of the rest of the characters, but how to deal with these actions require a lot of practice and understanding of the character. While the case could be akin to that of Shura, Jack's characteristics are actually the opposite. Shura is a hard to use character that has an incredible fast, constant, complicated to use and aggresive offensive with some strong counter attacking moves; while Jack is a character with strong pokes, that aren't necessarily constant nor fast paced, but made the basis of a very offensive game; while using very difficult to measure counterattacks.
Advantages ->
+ Strong mid range strategies.
+ Unorthodox character to use, that fact alone can make him fun.
+ It's fun (and hard) to use his preemptive game.
Disadvantages ->
- Hard to understand
- It's Hard to use some normals and most special moves
# Defense ->
Jack has probably one of the weakest defenses of the game, that means that in order to properly stop the enemy knowing deeply what the enemy is doing and what you can do becomes essential, this can denotate in many game play hours with the character, and having vast knowledge on what the rest of the cast can do.
-> His crouching strong punch and far standing foward with strong kick are some decent anti air at certain angles, but from his normal moves his strongest anti air is his neutral standing storng kick, timmed properly. Using any of this can be hard to adjust.
-> His crouching strong kick is a very weird move that due to it's strange nature has some unusual effects; the move will first slide towards the enemy slicing, and after a small step foward you will back slide with an attack. This can be useful if you time it correctly against an enemy cross over, the back slide will nail them (this is risky to achieve); another use can be, against a knocked down enemy, you use this move as such that the initial slide will miss, and the second one will get blocked, leaving you plenty of space and could be pretty safe on block if done properly. The first slide is very vulnerable on block, and can go through some mid high fireballs. It's very hard, but possible, that when you knock down the enemy in certain circunstances (like, winning an air battle, or landing 'deeply' certain special moves), to make this attack unblockable: To achieve this, you have to fall 'first' than the enemy, and then give this attack, in a way that it will pass behind the enemy before they fall, and that they get up when the move is 'coming back', done correctly; they will be unable to block this, so try to do this as sharpely as you can if you can recognize the circunstance; if the enemy has too much time to move, they might be able to block it or evade it.
-> His 236 + punch Mixer Crush move is his easiest to use special move and one of your main tools on the offense and defense. As a defensive move it's usage is easy to understand once you know the move : the move itself has no invincible frames, but leaps to the sky fairly quick homing towards the enemy; this fact can make it a good full screen punishment to slow recovery fireballs, or since the jump itself is fairly quick this move can also have a good edge against jumping attacks, but needs to be inputed quite earlier for that objective. There are some slow standing moves that can be punished with this move (like some of Ryofu's command moves), but knowing what to stop, how and when depends on timming, experience and circunstance / distance; training yourself to get the most of this move can take a while. Calculating this as an air defense against characters that have very high jumps is hard, but possible.
-> His 623 + kick Jaws attack move is completely invincible while on the start up and while it's traveling, but it's completely vulnerable when the move finishes and due to it's lenght we have that there are several scenarios where this move connected, but recieved punishment at it's end; due to that this move is 'wanted' to land as lately as possible and that is a pretty difficult feat to achieve, the weak version travels less and is slower than the strong version but adds the advantage of better recovery. Knowing when to place this move is a total chore and as such you'll most likely give it it's easier use -> Thick kill a cornered enemy using the strong version, or evading a move with it only when the enemy is weak enough to be killed by the successfull impact. There is an important note about this move, if the enemy is on the air when it hits; it will produce a different type of knock down than if the enemy was on the floor, said knock down is much safer than the vs ground one and can easily be meassured to be safe on hit. That, added with it's obscene invincibility make this move a 'vs ryu has' move, there are other uses like stuffing jumps and other air based special moves, so the player will need to experiment with this if they want to make the most of the move.
-> His 236 + kick Iron Crawl move is a safer version of the previous move, but lacks any kind of invincibility what so ever. This move is easier to understand due to better range and that it doesn't leave you vulnerable upon impact, and since this move ducks very low there are many attacks that can be 'dodged' because they aim to high, and will get punished by the move before they recover if you where close enough, one of the easiest example to this are the Ninja fireballs, which are pretty high. The inmense range of the move can also make it a good tool against jumps if timmed properly. This is also an important move that will require trainning and instincts to pull off correctly.
# Offense ->
Jack is a character that has very primitie offensive options, but a good Jack can feel a lot of freedom while on the offensive edge due to his range, walking speed and his straight foward attacks; making him quite a fun attacker.
-> His foward with strong kick is slow to come out, but once it's blocked you have a very big offensive edge, remember to follow it up with strong mid distance attack
-> His jump is very big, and the attacks that he can pull of from the jump have mostly weird angles and are weak in general in the case of air to air battles (even though they look like some very strong priority attacks, they are not; he usually has the lower edge of air to air fights). His jumping strong punch has a very, very small cross over window that will bring you many head aches if you try to master it. His weaks attacks have very sharp angles, but they are mostly meant for pressure, since jumping with weak attacks and comboing afterwards seems to be impossible with Jack's jump. Regarless of the weakness or strenght of his jumps, you must learn how to measure and calculate your attacks, since most of the other characters won't allow you to play a 'pure ground' game. Winning air to air battles with characters that have abusive jumps like Dragon or Mudman can be quite a task. His jump strong punch doesn't always hit on 'the same spots', initially is a strong attack aimed on top of Jack, and the end of the attack is a strong attack aimed below Jack, these characteristics make it hard to calculate on air to air battles.
-> Despise appearences, his far standing strong punch can be canceled, but it's hard getting used to it.
-> Jack's strongest pokes are his jabs and his crouching weak kicks, being the best the former one because it can easily be linked on itself, or be canceled in his 214 + kick move. His low kick has different push back for either hit or block; for example on hit your easiest combo is crouching weak kick x 2 into his strong 214 + kick, but on block you can do things like crouching kick x 3, into far standing strong punch. Your main 'on hit combo' that doesn't connect against everyone outside the corner is crouching low kick -> neutral standing strong kick (1 hit) -> 214 + kick. You can replace the neutral standing strong punch by a crouching strong punch, but it's harder to time, and is much harder to cancel. The neutral standing strong kick might whiff against some crouching enemies so be careful when using that. His crouching weak kick can be linked to a far standing strong punch -> special move, but needs proper distance (it's hard to judge it). Of course, your easiest and most reliable combo is crouching weak kick x 2 -> 214 + strong kick.
-> The first hit of his close standing strong punch can be canceled, but the punch itself is hard to use accurately, since it can't be linked. Since this is good against crouching enemies and easy to cancel, it might be good to punish 'small / mid mistakes'.
-> His foward with weak kick is very hard to understand and use properly, the move mainly causes Jack to spin into his own place while stabbing the enemy. The hard part of the move is that it's not only slow to come out, but it's only good if the last hit is blocked or hits, the other hits have strong push back, and you might only score the last hit if you are doing it against a decently big cornered enemy, or if you made the first hits whiff against a floored enemy. If the last hit is blocked, you have a very nice time to pursue with a far standing strong punch, or a 214 + kick move. If the last hit whiffs, you can perfectly get raped due to the lag.
-> His 214 + kick Knee smasher is the Jack move, it's fairly easy to use, fairly easy to combo and can be safe on block if you space it properly. The weak version travels a short distance and is slower than the strong one, but due to that is that is safer when blocked. The fact that the strong one is faster and has more range, make it a better move for combos, since most of Jack's normals have very strong pushback on hit. Anticipating moves with this attack is one of the cores of Jack's gameplay. Neutral close standing strong kick (2 hits) canceled into this move whiffs against some crouching enemies, but is your easiest 'punishment for big mistakes' combo.
-> While on the offensive, his 236 + punch move works much differently than while defending. It's main offensive move is doing certain 'look the other way' traps once the enemy is knocked down; to achieve this you have to knock down the enemy with something that let's you chase them afterwards (like 214 + kick or a throw), then close in the distance and do this move when they are standing up from close. Properly done you will cross over them and nail them, but due to the inflexibility of the move and the inhability to aim it, it's hard to be dangerous using only this move; gladly this move doesn't leave you that open when it gets blocked. Remember that from some distances you will land behind the enemy, and from others you will land in front off them, that alone is a mix up in itself (but experienced player can read through this). The smaller the enemy, the harder than this is to achieve (and if you give the opposition time, they will crouch and further make these strategies harder to use).
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Last updated : 06/03/09 (99 personajes) <- se agregó a Nameless
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