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| Professor 2841th Post
  
MMCafe Owner
     
|  "KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Thu 14 Oct 19:39:  
Thread 1- Mostly chitchat  Thread 2- Beta videos, music, etc Thread 3- More beta stuff
Thread 4- All info from first 3 months after the game's release - Check here for video URLs & etc.
Graphical Tidibits Channel
Game main site JP version. Full cast & trailers.
Game main site, US version. Still closed.
SNK youtube channel.
Currently proposed Ratio chart for KOFXIII (Updated --/--/2010)
Note: This may eventually be tweaked as the MMC version for use in online matches, etc.
Any change proposals are welcomed.
Max points = 5
Ratio / Character
5 K', Raiden
4 Kyo, Elisabeth, Takuma
3 Andy, Iori, Shen, Kula
2 Robert, Chin, Yuri, Maxima, Leona, Ash, Benimaru, Kim
1 Duolon, Goro, Terry, Clark, Hwa, King
0 Joe, Kensou, Athena, Ralf, Ryo, Mai, Mature, Vice
[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 28 Oct 02:08] |
| Replies: |
| mbisonhatclub
221th Post
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|  "Re(3):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 15 Oct 16:01
quote:
... And I say, since when wasn't the most natural thing to hold the console release for a year or so? SNK really doesn't have to put a candy in everyone's mouth 3 times a month... Heck, 2 "official" (company involved) tournaments on a 3 months old game is just a pretty big deal, yet people speak as if they left the game to dust... Heck(mkII) Didn't they also sponsored an overseas tournament in Shangai or something? I'm not to sure.
Because many of us ~casuals~ don't even have any opportunity to try out the arcade game where we live, we want another option. Hell, plenty of us were waiting for a "release" on the internet, if you know what I mean, but I'm not talking about sexually. Or maybe I am!
Bottom line is, you guys may have the benefit of living right next door to the arcades, but at least myself and quite a few others would say that we feel left out, and there's no recourse besides traveling a couple thousand miles to play the game.
Meanwhile, we're already on our way to getting Platinum in BBCS, and that's something I can play readily at homeit's something easier to talk about, though honestly, not with an indifferent audience. Otherwise, I'd love to discuss KOFXIII in greater depth than "when is the console version going to be released?" And not just glance over cell phone eroge screenshots in the meantime.
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| Professor 2829th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(4):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 15 Oct 19:18:
quote:
Because many of us ~casuals~ don't even have any opportunity to try out the arcade game where we live, we want another option. Hell, plenty of us were waiting for a "release" on the internet, if you know what I mean, but I'm not talking about sexually. Or maybe I am!
Bottom line is, you guys may have the benefit of living right next door to the arcades, but at least myself and quite a few others would say that we feel left out, and there's no recourse besides traveling a couple thousand miles to play the game.
Meanwhile, we're already on our way to getting Platinum in BBCS, and that's something I can play readily at homeit's something easier to talk about, though honestly, not with an indifferent audience. Otherwise, I'd love to discuss KOFXIII in greater depth than "when is the console version going to be released?" And not just glance over cell phone eroge screenshots in the meantime.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. It's unfortunate how the arcade scene outside of selected asian countries are generally non-existant. It's hardly a profitable business.
FYI, publishers nowadays usually release a home port in 6 to 8 months (JP ver).
BBCS was released in 7 months.
KOFXII took only 4 months... but it was a major exception.
In memory of everyone's Beloved KOFXIII Version 1.0- Infinite marathon by Dune
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 15 Oct 23:35] |
| Professor 2830th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(5):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Mon 18 Oct 01:19:
Just a quick note on Ratio charts, they're basically meant for some local tournaments and not really for a wide-region tournament like Tougeki.
That said, here goes a different one...
Ratio Chart, Shinjuku Carnival version
* One of the main arcades attracting KOFXIII players in Tokyo.
* Chart considers character usage within Carnival and will be used for next month's tournament.
Max 4 points
4- K', Raiden
3- Andy, Shen, Kyo, Iori, Kula, Elisabeth, Takuma
2- Leona, Ash, Benimaru, Yuri, Kim, Duolon, Chin
1- Goro, Terry, Kensou, Mature, Maxima, Joe, Robert, King, Hwa, Ralf
0- Mai, Athena, Clark, Ryo, Vice
On another little tidbit, Tougeki is pretty much no holds barred. Aside from the fame, add in the fact that they offer prize money, things can get interesting since competitors hide their best techs and bugs until their time on the stage. That's why a few of the bug reports for XIII didn't pop out until rather recently; players spilled them out after the tournament since they no longer cared.
Local competitions won't ever go as far, since for one reason, they can get closed down for gambling if they offer prizes. The situation is different for Tougeki since they have sponsors and the monetary transaction is indirect, plus they don't operate under red-light district law which is what arcades are required to adhere to.
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 18 Oct 02:06] |
| Spoon 2035th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
| "Re(6):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 22 Oct 07:14
quote:
Max 4 points
4- K', Raiden
3- Andy, Shen, Kyo, Iori, Kula, Elisabeth, Takuma
2- Leona, Ash, Benimaru, Yuri, Kim, Duolon, Chin
1- Goro, Terry, Kensou, Mature, Maxima, Joe, Robert, King, Hwa, Ralf
0- Mai, Athena, Clark, Ryo, Vice
A peculiarity of this system is that it means choosing a 3 or 4 point character automatically forces the inclusion of a 0 point character.
Possible point combinations(not permutations):
4-0-0
3-1-0
3-0-0
2-2-0
2-1-1
2-1-0
2-0-0
1-1-1
1-1-0
1-0-0
0-0-0
Unless people are fond of 2-1-1 and 1-1-1, we're going to see a lot of ratio 0 action.... while there are twice as many ratio 1 chars and ratio 0 chars, I just get the feeling that those teams aren't going to be popular. Interested in hearing what the results will be, though!
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| Gunsmith
24th Post
Orochinagi WebHamster
| "Re(4):Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Wed 27 Oct 17:48
Did you see us on the train? All for the love of SNK...
The 1st night was 2 hours,
2nd was 18 hours (arcade closed at 6am)
3rd evening was 3 hours, where we got to try practice mode as everyone else was dead from night before :)
I dreamt of green volcanoes!! MORE ASH PLZ!
Here's your kohi and pasta!
Presentation: the game is really nice to see 'in the flesh'. I remember comparing the style to Blazblue when I first saw videos; with the colour picking it's even more obvious now. The pallettes are great but everyone's picking black lol. You may think the DM finish burst of colour isn't all that but when you're on the receiving end or delivering one, it's actually pretty cool. The zoom in of sprites during DMs is inspired by our combo videos - better put us in the credits SNKP! Haha. Speaking of sprites, I miss the re-sizing depending on range but it's no big deal. The NeoMaxes are incredible to see.
Game system: Bouncing between this and 2k2UM was not good. The timing is more lenient and yet different. You can't just jump in and pull off (good) combos. I found it very irritating but I remember feeling this way for XII, it just takes a bit of practice, it's not unlike the transition from 98 to 2k2 (for some combos).
The crossup detection is totally f*cked, however. I don't know yet if the patch sorted this out and it's not exactly game breaking but good grief it's going to mess up my combos. I crossed up with Robert and yet landed in front of them, which meant I had to switch from being about to do qcbhcf to qcfhcb in a millisecond - and I'm not that fast. The jumping distance is completely different to OS (Old Skool) KOF. That completely screwed us all and will annoy you when you start. What with the crossups, ugh.
As you know, I don't like the single button throw, I still have problems with this in OS. Oh well. CD counters work fine, although I'm trying not to use them and just block to save stock. Risk versus reward? We'll see.
The removal of counter stun really changes the game flow. XII was more about getting a counter hit and running in to inflict a combo. XIII is pretty much OS KOF with new graphics, different timing and SF combos and EX mind games.
HD mode aka BC mode- bleh, not necessary, much like in 2k2, unless you're an expert who can dish out long combos that bore the crap outta your opponent. I am pleased at the way you don't need it.
Sprite collision: I remember chatting with Salim as he said he didn't like XIII because he can't see opponents hitting him. Yeah, some things are a bit weird- just watch Goro run across the screen... but it just needs learning.
Combos: This system seems quite simple however it's not as easy as SNKP would like you to think. QCFx2 + A into QCFx2 + AC is not exactly bread and butter, you'll still need some speedy hands to pull this off. What's interesting is the damage scaling, which means some of those long combos may not be worth going for - however this means that the skilled players can show off while the average joe can still whack off comparitively good damage with the basics. That's good balance.
I don't understand why they kept Mature's infinite - perhaps scaling damage was easier than reprogramming the properties of her EX qcb. Things like these are easy to control in a professional tournament but God help you in the wilderness known as "trophy hunting". Expect to see that woman out in force.
Execution I found some moves, especially NeoMaxes, highly resistant to my spamming. Kula's Freeze Execution notably refused to come out.
Characters: There are plenty of reasons old skool will run away from this incarnation of KOF, one being the timing, others including lack of characters and the (new-ish) way they are used. For example, Iori is practically 98 style but for having a HD cancel into scum gale, which means he can inflict heavy damage after any combo ending with qcb A. Some people stopped playing 98 because of Iori. However, Iori is not invincible. He doesn't have a projectile. He has to pressure you. His jump D is in no way invincible. You just have to know how to counter it. It's not like he can do Scum gale, CD, DP into SDM anyway. Raiden is much more of a problem. There's nothing to say that you don't already know.
Shen Woo seems practically unchanged; one character XII owners should get to grips with while waiting, as you can see in the videos, the little practice with him I had came in useful (not much, but the surprise element was a good gamble as nobody else was using him). Mature (also) has a nicely angled jump CD and a good EX projectile for pressure.
Kyo's jump D doesn't seem as effective as in OS (Old Skool) KOF, when trying to stop people jumping in etc - it doesn't seem to have as large a hitbox. K' and Kula are pretty much the same old same old. Maxima seems a bit cheap as he has buckets of time to cancel his slide grab into DM/NM. Chin is an old git. Leona has marvellous links: c B into fwd B and her air attacks seem to crossup easily.
Robert seems the same old apart from his standard hcf K - he takes ages to recover! I'm dying to run and attack but he's just standing there shrugging his waistcoat. Stand D retains priority as anti air, plus he can crossup with j B or D. With the crossup crap, he can be pretty dangerous. I'm not sure if it's invincible, but his DP C won every time. Absolutely cracking SDM - I might even like it more than his NM!
Ash: I never was able to do any real damage with him in XII and it doesn't feel any different now. For some reason I turned into an idiot and couldn't do his command kicks but even when I did, without the stun from XII, there's not much use to them. When an opponent starts blocking, he's pretty f*cked, as he has to start walking in and so loses his charge. He can't just throw projectiles because they're easily jumpable, leaving him open to a combo. Guile could creep up behind a slow sonic boom but Ash can't do that - his projectiles are too fast.
Kensou's good but MichelS has dibs so I'm going to leave him alone. Jump CD not as strong but will do against Iori. DP cancelled into qcb P cancelled into SDM psychoball works nicely!
Andy, Duo Lon, Vice, Hwa Ja = didn't really see them. Didn't want to risk using Vice.
Using Clark got on my nerves but at least his sweep is fast. No frankensteiner, no joy. Goro has it, and it's cancellable. I might just use Goro actually, his stand B seems good enough. Ralf has his rape DM back, easily cancellable from his gatling attack. I remember seeing a far C connect in such a way it brought back nightmares- needs more testing!
That's enough, I've got a headache and I'm pissed that I can't play it some more. For once, I'm not bothered about the story, I just want to get better and nail some NeoMax combos. The closest I got was with Benimaru in practice mode (see the video), this made me rather happy because it didn't seem that difficult. My head tends to go a bit funny when it comes to long combos so I'll be avoiding that Arcadia HD crap and just unleash RAIOHKEN!!!
My team may well be Beni, Shen and Robert...
To conclude, I had fun with the game, but I can see why OS fans will go back to 2k2um. To get good at XIII, you're going to need to put in time and effort. OS fans don't have that time, they just want to hit start and start mashing D and hope they can grab with King. Out of those fans, it's going to one KOF or the other. I want to play it, but it don't have Shermie and Clark is nowhere as good as he is in 2k2um. And Jesus, have you seen 2k2um Shermie? I mean, really? She's actually really good! Anyway, it's going to be a tough decision to make- or I need to cut watching anime so I can play both KOFs D:
Concerning the release date, if SNKP were to announce XIII just after 2k2UM (Nov 11 for USA), what would happen to 2k2UM sales? Tch. Under a new president that might actually make good decisions, we could be in for a long wait.
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| Professor 2844th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(7):Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Thu 28 Oct 00:16:
quote:
Yup, 3x2 layout, but I've been using L set, which is practically the same as on the neogeo stick, as long as your thumb is on A.
We're going to start arguing about why L and 2x2 layout are better for certain KOFs in a later article.
It's version 1.0, the owner is having difficulties getting his 1.1 (he bought it from a shop in China...)
Regarding the infinites, the players were nice enough not to use them.
need to play it some more - Gwooooo!!!
About the poll, I assume we're talking about the Japanese release?
Which arcade are you playing at btw?
The Japanese. Though nowadays it's not too different from the overseas release period. Actually, I should note that, thanks.
I stop by various arcades so it's kind of hard to pinpoint one... usually somewhere not too crouded and smokey, my throat can't take it. They're sort of my coffee stop, an alternative to going to a Starbucks to take a rest.
Are you thinking of covering/touring arcades on your next trip? You should get an unlimited train pass in that case.
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 29 Oct 20:39] |
| Professor 2847th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(10):Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Wed 3 Nov 10:36:
Wow, so someone actually paid up for Dune's site? That's something.
Also in regards to KOF, Kevin Williams in his "The Stringer Report" has an awfully long but well written edition of his newsletter covering SNK and the NeoGeo console in regards to its 20th anniversary. I assume he has a personal fondness for the system from his business with the company. Won't go on to paste the whole article and I'll skip on the NesicaxLive stuff, but here's a few exerps for anyone interested.
quote:
Because of the expense of the platform (some $600), particularly in comparison to other home consoles of the time, a unique plan was contrived to get the system into homes.
The plan was simple: players wanting to continue their amusement games when it was time to go home would simply save their progress on their personal SNK memory (smart) card, go to the rental counter of their local arcade, and rent an AES along the appropriate game. It was also suggested at the time that the home system might be rented from pizza parlors and convenience stores.
quote:
Breaking Stinger News - That a game platform could still offer a viable business opportunity some twenty years since it was launched is testament to the staying power of the platform. This very quality was further underlined when it was revealed in October this year that 'Fast Striker' by NG:DEV.TEAM from Germany would be launched for the Neo-Geo -some eight years since it went out of production! This fast paced shoot-em-up is expected to appeal to the home collectors' market while also drawing in new blood.
quote:
Internationally, some operators still look towards the Neo-Geo-esque model, and there are several amusement manufacturers attempting to fulfill their requirements. As was seen with the recent launch at ENADA'10, the Spanish based Genna Group has embraced the ability to populate a cabinet with classic video amusement and created their 'Play Room'. The system has been installed with the 'MULTIGIOCO', a PC based system - comprising an amazing 1,069 games - that is connected as a JAMMA kit / VGA system. As with many multi-game platforms that have appeared under the radar in the international amusement scene, the MULTIGOCO offers a wide selection of Neo-Geo games brought back to life.
Another system that attempts to offer the operator a glimpse of the amusement/ consumer cross-over is the 'GameGate' by Quasimoto. A definite Neo-Geo throwback in terms of play model, the system was developed to offer a console game environment to the public-space sector. Although, the monster of "Pay-for-Time" has risen from the grave and been employed here, the developers at Quasimoto have gone far beyond amusement thinking to create a workable 'hospitality' platform that offers a compelling console game experience in an amusement platform. One unexpected by-product of Neo-Geo's renewed success is that at the end of 2010, more parties than ever before are willing to listen to and consider the opportunities that the hospitality market has to offer.
[this message was edited by Professor on Wed 3 Nov 10:41] |
| Professor 2853th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(3):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Sun 7 Nov 16:14:
[Edit] I noticed that this post is getting misinterpreted by some sites-- the entries below are three, completely separate topics. Only the KOF13 topic is from Arcadia. The magazine doesn't report on consumer titles or local tournaments to begin with.
[Edit2] To minimize any further damage, I'm moving the KOF13 topic to the bottom.
Some quick notes.
-Carnival arcade keeps on changing its allotment on the ratio chart. It started out as max 4 points, changed to max 6 points a bit later, now it's back to max 4. Lord knows what it'll be by the time of the tournament at the end of the month. IMO, their chart needs an update too, Vice and Maxima is a bit too cost efficient.
-KOF2002UM for the XBLA, its netplay is being blasted for lag even within Japan. With a grain of salt, rumor says that it uses the same netcode as 98UM (or something based on it). The game reportedly synchs during the character select screen. Bottom line, be the host for minimum lag.
-The latest issue of Arcadia has coverage of September's Tougeki and the winners of the tournament. The page for KOF13 was all about Raiden and his dropkick with tips on how to use it. It further went on to show that the champion, Oeppu, uses a 1+3 button layout of ABCD. The end of the page has him quoting; "It's a very easy game, all you need is to hold on the kicks."
[this message was edited by Professor on Wed 10 Nov 16:32] |
| Professor 2854th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(9):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Thu 11 Nov 22:05:
Since it seems to be a subject of interest... a note about KOF2002UM XBLAver.
For players in Japan, it's rare for them to have matches over ping 100 unless they're playing against overseas for some reason. So needless to say, their standard of "laggy" is a bit different from the Western side. Ping 40-50 seems to be the borderline of "playable" for the serious players.
But even at those figures, they still report that there's some latency in the game, which isn't too good.
On a side note, it should be noted that Ping figures don't mean much if both sides don't have a stable internet connection.
And while we're at it, here's the KOF2002UM ratio chart for anyone who wants it. This is from the arcade cabinet release a while back so I'm sure people will want to customize it for the XBLA release. Like, throw the projectile characters to the top.
Max total = 12 Points
7 - K', Kasumi, Nameless
6 - Andy, Benimaru, Chris(Norm), King, Kula, Robert(Alt), Yuri
5 - Bao, Chris(Alt), Heidern, Hinako, Iori, Jhun, Kusanagi, Mature, Rin, Ryo
4 - Choi, Clark, Foxy, Goro, Kim, Kyo, Leona, Mai, Mary, Seth, Shermie(Alt), Terry, Yamazaki
3 - Athena, Angel, Billy, Chang, Joe, Kensou(Norm&Alt), KYO-2, Ralf, Ramon, Robert(Norm), Shermie(Norm), Shingo, Takuma(Norm&Alt), Vice, Whip, Xiangfei, Yashiro(Norm&Alt),
2 - Chin, KYO-1, May Lee, Maxima, Vanessa
[this message was edited by Professor on Thu 11 Nov 23:36] |
| Kane317
16th Post
New Customer
| "Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 12 Nov 05:06
quote:
Since it seems to be a subject of interest... a note about KOF2002UM XBLAver.
For players in Japan, it's rare for them to have matches over ping 100 unless they're playing against overseas for some reason. So needless to say, their standard of "laggy" is a bit different from the Western side. Ping 40-50 seems to be the borderline of "playable" for the serious players.
But even at those figures, they still report that there's some latency in the game, which isn't too good.
On a side note, it should be noted that Ping figures don't mean much if both sides don't have a stable internet connection.
And while we're at it, here's the KOF2002UM ratio chart for anyone who wants it. This is from the arcade cabinet release a while back so I'm sure people will want to customize it for the XBLA release. Like, throw the projectile characters to the top.
Max total = 12 Points
7 - K', Kasumi, Nameless
6 - Andy, Benimaru, Chris(Norm), King, Kula, Robert(Alt), Yuri
5 - Bao, Chris(Alt), Heidern, Hinako, Iori, Jhun, Kusanagi, Mature, Rin, Ryo
4 - Choi, Clark, Foxy, Goro, Kim, Kyo, Leona, Mai, Mary, Seth, Shermie(Alt), Terry, Yamazaki
3 - Athena, Angel, Billy, Chang, Joe, Kensou(Norm&Alt), KYO-2, Ralf, Ramon, Robert(Norm), Shermie(Norm), Shingo, Takuma(Norm&Alt), Vice, Whip, Xiangfei, Yashiro(Norm&Alt),
2 - Chin, KYO-1, May Lee, Maxima, Vanessa
I'm seeing this ping issue as a good thing. If even Japan complains there's latency issues, maybe they'll REALLY take the netcode seriously for XIII. I know this has been dissected a 1,000 times, but what's so hard in purchasing the GGPO netcode, didn't GG do it? Is this a legality issue or a money issue?
www.youtube.com/kane317
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| Spoon 2044th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 12 Nov 05:30
quote:
Max total = 12 Points
7 - K', Kasumi, Nameless
6 - Andy, Benimaru, Chris(Norm), King, Kula, Robert(Alt), Yuri
5 - Bao, Chris(Alt), Heidern, Hinako, Iori, Jhun, Kusanagi, Mature, Rin, Ryo
4 - Choi, Clark, Foxy, Goro, Kim, Kyo, Leona, Mai, Mary, Seth, Shermie(Alt), Terry, Yamazaki
3 - Athena, Angel, Billy, Chang, Joe, Kensou(Norm&Alt), KYO-2, Ralf, Ramon, Robert(Norm), Shermie(Norm), Shingo, Takuma(Norm&Alt), Vice, Whip, Xiangfei, Yashiro(Norm&Alt),
2 - Chin, KYO-1, May Lee, Maxima, Vanessa
So a team cannot have both a 7 and 6 or a 7 and 5 or even a 6 and 5 point character... unless the rules allow for such a team to lose the match once those characters die.
I still don't know what makes Kasumi so good in this game; what puts her so far above the others?
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| Iggy 9194th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 12 Nov 05:36
quote:
Max total = 12 Points
7 - K', Kasumi, Nameless
6 - Andy, Benimaru, Chris(Norm), King, Kula, Robert(Alt), Yuri
5 - Bao, Chris(Alt), Heidern, Hinako, Iori, Jhun, Kusanagi, Mature, Rin, Ryo
4 - Choi, Clark, Foxy, Goro, Kim, Kyo, Leona, Mai, Mary, Seth, Shermie(Alt), Terry, Yamazaki
3 - Athena, Angel, Billy, Chang, Joe, Kensou(Norm&Alt), KYO-2, Ralf, Ramon, Robert(Norm), Shermie(Norm), Shingo, Takuma(Norm&Alt), Vice, Whip, Xiangfei, Yashiro(Norm&Alt),
2 - Chin, KYO-1, May Lee, Maxima, Vanessa
Interesting how most of the top tiers of vanilla 02 got nerfed like mad...
I thought Chang was LOL-tier in 02UM, but apparently, someone found at least a few basic tactics with him.
Also, what makes the projectile characters so strong in 02UM? I don't remember them being that dominant in 02...
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| Professor 2856th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(2):Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Fri 12 Nov 13:52:
quote:
I'm seeing this ping issue as a good thing. If even Japan complains there's latency issues, maybe they'll REALLY take the netcode seriously for XIII. I know this has been dissected a 1,000 times, but what's so hard in purchasing the GGPO netcode, didn't GG do it? Is this a legality issue or a money issue?
That's probably a question best left for Tony Cannon to answer, considering how hard it is to catch a publisher and ask them a comment about unimplemented subjects.
My personal view, it might have to do with both money and legality. SNKP has a long, long, history for taking the budget route. They also have an equally long history of high pride (and bad business decisions).
If there's one unfortunate thing with GGPO, it's got a bit of an underground association to it. It's hard to imagine management that would be forthgoing to approve a contract for a code that came from a network system that supports unsolicited game roms from their own company.
spoon-
I haven't played much 2002UM but from what I understand, she's got good jump-ins, high priority attacks, can break through opponents, can do mass damage, counter raises power meter on a whiff, and Max2 has unconditional hit detection.
[EDIT] Holy Moses, I didn't know there was an Evo Japan happening in spring. Might be a good time to continue writing up my arcade & survival guide for tourists.
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 12 Nov 14:44] |
| Toxico 5183th Post
PSN: Toxic-Baron
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(2):ppppppp" , posted Wed 17 Nov 09:38
quote:
SNK has a lot of catching up to do in regards to their online experience and playability of their games. I got KOF02UM as soon as I heard it was available on Xbox Live. For me, it is monumentally much harder to input moves in KOF02UM versus SSF4. I know that people complain that the input system on SSF4 is too lenient but in KOF02UM it is extremely strict. That is very frustrating. Furthermore, the online matchmaking system is very simple in KOF02UM. I've been playing SSF4 since early August 2010 and I am extremely impressed by its netcode and matchmaking system.
SF IV is 'a head' title of a big company that had a big budget, thus in a lot of aspects the game is huge.
KoF 02um on Xbox was a rehash of the arcade version, which in turn is a rehash of the original ps2 version, which in turn was a low budget and low man hour effort work product.... Heck, it's not even considered within the main saga as in "XIII is episode XIII", the UMs aren't accounted in there number wise....
So, whatever the terms the games had to work in are simply completely different from eachother, and comparing them is like comparing fat Hollywood movie to the copy of a copy of a Z quality motion picture. Does that effect the fun of the playability of the games? no. Does that meant that we should have expected a halfbaked job on the Xbald port? no.
Regardless of that, it was easy to see that SNK was getting sloppy with the UM versions as of late, so it was painfully predictable to see that we where going to end up with what we got... And doing a fan whine full technicolor parade on whatever media SNK has available is not going to change anything, sad yet true.
... So, let's just pray for better luck on a better budget product 
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Update 23 as of 25/10/10 (Temporary mega upload link).
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Last update : Chapter 21 as of 15/10/10
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| mbisonhatclub
224th Post
PSN: hadoolket
XBL: n/a
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Frequent Customer
| "Re(4):ppppppp" , posted Wed 17 Nov 23:18
quote:
Pro-tip time:
Get 2002UM Tougeki version for the Playstation 2.
By buying an inferior product, you are just asking for shit. Wise up.
Truth
I've got the PS2 port and would never consider the XBL port if I had XBL. I'm tired of encouraging producers and developers to churn out more shitty products by buying into their lackadaisical and lazy lack of effort. There are certainly things SNK needs to learn and one thing to learn isn't "we can be as careless as we want to be with our product"
Inafune is right about Japan game developers just becoming a bunch of salarymen who don't give a shit, despite any previous sense of pride they had over US developers and our balding space marine fetish. They have to understand that it isn't okay to put out something like KOFXII, but they won't understand that if people start being apologists for something like that, and buy into it anyway (you know who you are).
In my opinion, KOFXII shouldn't have been released if it wasn't done--I know they have deadlines and they can't keep extending them especially if the developers side is slow or lazy, but the latter is why you have more visibility in the market to show your betas and such to periodically let the public know that you're at least putting some kind of effort into a product and not spending five months jacking off and then tweaking a couple of things at the last minute. This is one of SNK's major faults, is that they don't have that kind of visibility a lot, unless it has to do with advertising their ecchi pachinko cell phone games that only casual Japanese pervert salarymen can toy with when their sex life is down the drain.
My worries is that SNK's attitude, especially toward online gaming, is still going to play a detrimental role in its netcode, and yet, we'll still buy into it anyway because a lot of us just want to play KOFXIII, me inclusive
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| Toxico 5191th Post
PSN: Toxic-Baron
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "また 98' か!?" , posted Wed 24 Nov 14:21:
Final Edition だと!? .... Self explanatory; the nescal live system is going to debut with those games.... And that title is misleading, specially considering how the 98um failed to "knock off" the old 98 in the hearts of the players, smells like a second try to me 
quote:
How many editions are we at of KOF98, now? What's that? Even more than what versions of FFIV there are? What's that? The difference is that FFIVDS is actually worthwhile? Huh!
Let's check.... The relevant ones that pop up from my head right now
98 vanilla,
99 dream match,
98um arcade,
98um ps2,
98um xbald live (watered down stages & ost),
98um hero (same as arcade, but different hardware cheaper and more compatible with the Chinese market),
98um Final Edition
.... Those are the ones, I think.... Not counting the game inside collections nor ports that are supposed to be 1 : 1
.... Now that I realize that count doesn't necessarily ends with that, kah kah kah
目に焼きつけて、死ぬがいい・・・
Update 23 as of 25/10/10 (Temporary mega upload link).
Now sponsoring : video game analogies (ES)
Last update : Chapter 21 as of 15/10/10
[this message was edited by Toxico on Wed 24 Nov 14:41] |
| Kane317
19th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):また 98' か!?" , posted Wed 24 Nov 19:13
quote:
Final Edition だと!? .... Self explanatory; the nescal live system is going to debut with those games.... And that title is misleading, specially considering how the 98um failed to "knock off" the old 98 in the hearts of the players, smells like a second try to me
How many editions are we at of KOF98, now? What's that? Even more than what versions of FFIV there are? What's that? The difference is that FFIVDS is actually worthwhile? Huh!
Let's check.... The relevant ones that pop up from my head right now
98 vanilla,
99 dream match,
98um arcade,
98um ps2,
98um xbald live (watered down stages & ost),
98um hero (same as arcade, but different hardware cheaper and more compatible with the Chinese market),
98um Final Edition
.... Those are the ones, I think.... Not counting the game inside collections nor ports that are supposed to be 1 : 1
.... Now that I realize that count doesn't necessarily ends with that, kah kah kah
Curious to see what the balance changes they've done to '98 UM.
www.youtube.com/kane317
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| shindekudasai 367th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(2):また 98' か!?" , posted Fri 26 Nov 01:42
quote:
How many editions are we at of KOF98, now? ...
Let's check.... The relevant ones that pop up from my head right now
98 vanilla,
99 dream match,
98um arcade,
98um ps2,
98um xbald live (watered down stages & ost),
98um hero (same as arcade, but different hardware cheaper and more compatible with the Chinese market),
98um Final Edition
To be fair, SNK told us straight up how it was gonna be way back in 1998: "Dream Match Never Ends"
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| Professor 2874th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "KOFXIII Ratio tournament" , posted Sat 27 Nov 20:01:
Carnival Arcade had its ratio tournament for KOFXIII today and it was pretty interesting. There were a total of 25 participants; Oz, Cap, and Nagihe were there. The tournament ran in double-elimination.
The matches were played on two cabinets and one of them was hooked to a DVD-HDD recorder. Those matches are scheduled to go up on Nico Video.
The tournament commentator was also a participant- whatever video that runs without commentaries will be his matches. He lost in the loser's bracket though.
The tournament ran under this ratio chart.
Max 4 points
4- K', Raiden
3- Andy, Shen, Kyo, Iori, Kula, Elisabeth, Takuma
2- Leona, Ash, Benimaru, Yuri, Kim, Duolon, Chin
1- Goro, Terry, Kensou, Mature, Maxima, Joe, Robert, King, Hwa, Ralf
0- Mai, Athena, Clark, Ryo, Vice
The game actually felt really well balanced with this Ratio implementation. 3-1-0 and 2-2-0 were the most popular combinations. i think there were only 2 or 3 players doing 4-0-0.
Most of the characters in the game seemed to be used by people, including Ralf despite that he's in Ratio 1. The Ratio 0s were pretty popular except for Mai, who I've only seen being used by one player.
Players seem to have figured out how to get the best out of Ryo and do some damaging combos.
I can't recall seeing Takuma and Goro being used by anyone. I don't recall seeing Elisabeth either. K' and Raiden were rarely seen.
The matches were mixed-- some players were really good, some felt like casuals, some players seemed a bit ambitious and whiffed big time on combos.
Here's a few example of matchups that were were seen.
Clark-Robert-Shen vs Ralf-Clark-Yuri
Athena-King-Kula vs Duolon-Ryo-Ash
Mai-Athena-Kula vs Duolon-Clark-Kim
Kim-Ryo-Yuri vs Ash-Clark-Yuri
Yuri-Leona-Vice vs Clark-Raiden-Ryo
Athena-Vice-Yuri vs Hwa-Iori-Vice
Mai-Athena-Kula vs Kim-Kyo-Chin
Ryo-Kyo-Maxima vs King-Robert-Leona
Robert-Shen-Clark vs Clark-Vice-Shen
Clark-Ralf-Yuri vs Vice-Kyo-Maxima
Joe-Ryo-Shen vs Duolon-Clark-Kim
K-Ryo-Vice vs Terry-Ryo-Iori
Kensou-King-Ash vs Athena-Ash-Benimaru
[edit]
No videos yet
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 29 Nov 03:37] |
| Loona 358th Post
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Silver Customer
| "Re(3):KOFXIII Ratio tournament" , posted Tue 30 Nov 04:22
quote:
The Ratio 0s were pretty popular except for Mai, who I've only seen being used by one player.
There's something stragely ironic about this, though that's probably the wrong word for the occasion.
It's probably that people want to play more than just K' and Dropkick but can't in normal situations. A ratio tournament allows them to do that and in theory gives a chance to learn more about these other characters.
I meant as an aftermath of the XII "NO MAI NO BUY" thing - people who didn't care about the game were very vocal about that, so she was added to XIII with quite a flair, but now the people actually playing the game barely touch her. SNKP just can't win sometimes...
I like the idea of this ratio system though, as least as something that can change over time depending on how much use a character gets - maybe not in this form but, say, having a tournament award being higher the lower in the current ratio your characters are, or the less they were used in total in the tournament is somethin that could cause more characters to be explored over time.
I can only imagine what something like that could have done for another team-based game like MvC2 - like, if you picked a typical Storm/Magneto/Sentinel trio and got first place in a tournament, you might not get a cash prize as high as a guy that made it to 2nd or 3rd with Captain Commando/Dhalsim/Servbot.
Very unlikely, but would be fun to watch...
"Beat the machine that works in your head!" - Guano Apes "Open Your Eyes"
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| Spoon 2054th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):KOFXIII Ratio tournament" , posted Tue 30 Nov 08:50
quote:
I can only imagine what something like that could have done for another team-based game like MvC2 - like, if you picked a typical Storm/Magneto/Sentinel trio and got first place in a tournament, you might not get a cash prize as high as a guy that made it to 2nd or 3rd with Captain Commando/Dhalsim/Servbot.
Very unlikely, but would be fun to watch...
There actually are low-tier tournaments that used a similar idea. They'd outright ban the big 4, then put Tron, Doom, IM, Spiral, etc. into a group of which you are only allowed one on your team. I can't remember all the groupings and rules, but evidently they were pretty fun times.
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| Spoon 2055th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):KOFXIII Ratio tournament" , posted Wed 1 Dec 01:44
quote:
It sounds like SNKP should update the game with a programmable ratio system so arcade owners can hardwire their own settings in for these occasions
Instead of something ardwired, I figure it'd make more sense for the ratios to update automatically based on character usage so you'd get something like the CvS ratio system.
Of course, if that meant some people would use up a lot of credits to lower the rank of characters they intend to use in a tournament by picking someone else frequently, I doubt arcade operators would mind.
I'm not sure if I'd like such a system to be handled automatically simply because a big part of KOF is making a team of your favourite characters. Yeah, that might not fly in an environment like KOF13 where two of the characters are just so dominant, but it's just something that flys against part of the appeal of tag match/crossover/team battle games. Plus, some characters which are popular but aren't necessarily the best might get unfairly propped up! Just imagine if all the easy-to-use characters got pushed into high-ratio because of use, so that when real newbies try out the game, they are stuck with teams where 2/3 are really difficult/obscure characters because they don't have a choice but to!
The formula needs to be something more than just character usage, but it also needs to handle the problem of highly unpopular characters that have very high win percentages over a very small number of matches (e.g. if Chin is only picked 5 times compared to Raiden's 1000, but Chin wins all 5 of his matches while Raiden wins 900, Chin shouldn't be weighted higher than Raiden). Frankly I don't know what a good weighting algorithm is for this because I'm not a stats person.
Gundam VS allows you to pick a pair of anything you want. You can pick two high-cost MS if you want, but that tends to be disadvantageous. Of course, even among the different costs, each division has its own tiering (some of which I faintly remember where grievously discrepant). Just because one MS has bigger base numbers than another doesn't mean that it's more effective.
In Gundam there's this sense though that the point cost system makes sense, simply because the characters (i.e. the various suits and armors) are discrepant in their source material; Ball is supposed to be garbage, God Gundam is supposed to be almighty, etc. In CvS1 they tried to make big dudes/bosses high ratio, characters that look fast/light low ratio. It kind of makes intuitive sense, because then bosses can be legitimately "unbalanced" in a given matchup but can lose in being beaten by committee. Plus, it allows big bruising guys to be even tougher and even more bruising! It's like weight classing! But it makes the balancing odd and difficult, and ultimately CvS1 in tournament play degenerated into teams made largely of ratio 1s. I wonder if such a system couldn't be improved given the help of online updates, though.
I also wonder if the system couldn't be like Yugioh's: in the PSP and DS games, they have updated restricted/banned lists, so that when you play online you can guarantee that you will play people following the current standard ruleset. Would a human-mandated, but actively updated ratio system be better than some local but automated ratio system? I don't know!
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| Loona 361th Post
PSN: IkariLoona
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Silver Customer
| "Re(8):KOFXIII Ratio tournament" , posted Wed 1 Dec 02:15
The whole point of an automated system would be to push the usability of less-used characters up by making them more "expensive" in ratio cost, so you'd see more variety over time, but I guess that'd really work better in a CvSish system where team size could change.
In any case, the general principle could make for a fun online mode of a team-based fighting game - maybe the non-ranked alternative, or at least something with a separate rank of its own if viable.
In a game with such a large cast as the average KoF, there are characters I've only ever bothered to learn to see all the endings and then practically never touch them again, especially if they use a playstyle way outside my preferences, like grapplers.
One of the nice things about that series is that since you play with a team, at least one of the characters should be close enough to your style that you can get the hang of him well and leave him for last when you really want/need to win, and you get to start learning the others by pretty much alway throwing them first at the opponent unless you're going for a single-character win.
It's a nice principle when playing the CPU, so it could be fun to see it encouraged when playing other people even if at least casually online.
When you typically tend to pick your very best guys and don't take many risks - for example, I kinda like May Lee as a character concept, but I'm far from comfortable enough to use her online or even in things like challenges when practicing my Terry, Kim, Heidern or Takuma would help me win more.
Man, now I want a CvS3 or SvC2 that uses a dynamic character ratio system...
"Beat the machine that works in your head!" - Guano Apes "Open Your Eyes"
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| Nekros 310th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(3):neo geo station (same old psn downloads" , posted Tue 7 Dec 18:37
I know most of the gamers loved classic SNK games, but what's the point giving us AGAIN the first Metal Slug, Garou, Ryuuko, KOF?
At this point we never get a proper release of most recent and polished titles, it would take aeons only to get all SNK franchise at the third iteration (it happened on Wiiware). Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the games but I'm also bored to see the same old games refurbished in any SNK project/collection.
I hope I will se one day a decent Gekka No Kenshi port, as well a MOTW one (not that crappy pixellated one on 360). And also, get a reprise of Blazing Star, in some way, one of the few NeoGeo non-snk titles I miss so much.
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| mbisonhatclub
242th Post
PSN: hadoolket
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Frequent Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):KOF XIII vids" , posted Sat 25 Dec 02:06
quote:
That would be so, if you didn't consider the existence of the "Fighting old men all out battle" series.
"Pure" nico links.
1 / 4 ## 2 / 4 ## 3 / 4 ## 4 / 4
Two of those videos don't work, which are parts 2 and 4
It's nice to see a little changeup, but it seems like the players don't really know what they're doing with the characters, and Raiden is still irritating to watch in action, and they really need to work on a proration system that penalizes for repeat moves in combos, or maybe that dropkick prorate followups down to a small fraction of their original damage, because you ask yourself a question: why waste meter on a Neomax when you can do more damage just by using a meterless four move sequence that may have a better chance of hitting? It makes the Neomax kind of deprecrated
I did almost blow a load seeing Clark's Neomax being used, though
I kinda wish jumping trajectories and run/walk speeds weren't so homogeinized
And for some reason, people are going around saying stuff about CYS on consoles and I'm wondering where this rumor is coming from and why because it hurts my heart for them to tease me like this!
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| Professor 2891th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(6):Re(10):KOF XIII vids" , posted Sun 26 Dec 23:56
Carnival arcade KOFXIII ratio match video - Nico
Carnival arcade will once again be holding a ratio tournament on Jan 29, this time in a 2-on-2 format. The ratio chart will be different from last time. I probably won't be checking it out since I'm not that much a fan of 2-on's.
Max points = 6
Ratio / Character
4 K', Raiden
3 Andy, Shen, Kyo, Iori, Kula, Elisabeth, Takuma
2 Leona, Ash, Benimaru, Yuri, Kim, Duolon, Chin
1 Goro, Terry, Kensou, Mature, Maxima, Joe, Robert, King, Hwa, Ralf, Mai, Athena, Clark, Ryo, Vice
mbisonhatclub-- what's CYS?
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| Professor 2895th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "What may explain some things about KOF." , posted Sun 2 Jan 17:10:
[edit] Fixed some typos and wordings.
For anyone wondering where some of the recent rumors regarding SNKP's situation with the KOF franchise's current development statuses are coming from, it stems from a programmer, who supposedly worked for the company and quit in late September after six years under their payroll.
I was taking it with a grain of salt and didn't think it was worth a mention due to the lack of legitimacy until recently, when I realized that he was talking together with Dokimajo producer Yoshiyasu Matsushita about the company's internal situation.
His tweets has some very.. 'raw' tidbits, such as this entry
"Around the end of the development period, I was sleeping under my desk with a towel rolled around me, laying on newspaper. It's just memories now, like the way how I almost caught a cold with the air conditioner on while asleep, or like how I hit my head on my desk when I woke up. XII's console [development] period was seriously really bad."
He avoids directly naming his ex-company, but there's quite a number of entries about the workplace and its treatment. Like the way how his supervisor ordered his staff to work on a sleepover for a full week without letting them go home (note: the company doesn't have a shower room). Or like in another instance, how he wasn't allowed to even get a replacement for a very unconfortable chair and had to wait for another staff to quit so he could swap it. The company simply seems to be tight on money.
I symphasize with the programmer. He very obviously loves coding, enough that he'd buy expensive reference books on his own money since his company isn't willing to pick up the expense.
For anyone nutty enough to scroll all the way to the end of September to read some entries of what seems to be about XIII's home port situation, feel free.
Some snippets, but not all, are provided below. The figures sound small, and I assume that he's just talking in terms of the number of programmers... or is he. Either way, it can somewhat explain the bad net code in XII.
(Highlight to view) -
"It seems like the rest has to be done by two staffs and one part-timer at my company too.. I guess there's a lot of projects like that." *1
"I had quit without worrying because they were saying that the home port is going to be outsourced" *2
"I heard later that they were going to do it in-house, and I'm left feeling like, wait what...?" *3
"Just to add, the previous home version for the PS3 and Xbox360 was developed with 5 people, so as a company, they might have been thinking that "it's no problem if just one or two people left." Acheiving results is important, but I don't like the idea that we had set a weird previous example..." *4
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 3 Jan 04:18] |
| Professor 2900th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):KOF XIII vids" , posted Sun 9 Jan 21:08:
quote:
I didn't notice until recently how dramatically different the game feels when the input timeframe option is changed in the game's settings. Some of the most simplest moves like K's Iron Trigger> Second Shell/Shoot feels as hard as 1-frame links in SF4. (ok maybe not that strict, but it's a close call)
To elaborate a bit more on the previously mentioned input timeframes, technically, it's not really meant to be a setting that increases input time although that turns out to be the result. It's more of a byproduct for a setting that deals with issues on the Vewlix, the Taito Type X family's official arcade cabinet. For anyone interested, here's an explanation.
Taito currently offers three products in its Vewlix lineup, two of which is mainstream.
Red Cabinet (Vewlix F)- The standard cabinet. Costs around 500,000 yen per unit.
Blue Cabinet (Vewlix L)- The cheap cabinet. Costs around 320,000 yen per unit.
The Blue cabinet is affordable for arcade operators, but hardcore players tend to despise it. One of the reasons behind the huge price difference is that it uses a cheaper LCD about 2 frames slower on average.
For KOF13, SNKP coped with the latency differences between the two Vewlix cabinets by providing an option that purposely adds two frames of latency into the game (apparently just input latency) so that playing on the red cabinet would feel about the same response speed as on the blue cabinet. It should be on as the default shipment setting.
When the option is turned off, the simulatated latency gets cut off. But the thing is, the input timeframe shortens as well. So for instance, a command that has a window of 4 frames would shorten to 2 frames.
Many of the arcades use third party LCD cabinets, and you never know which setting the game is on until you play it.
As of December, Taito now offers the new Lightblue Cabinet (Vewlix Diamond), which has a good LCD like the red cabinet and an improved I/O board. The system is available for the relatively affordable price of around 780,000 yen per set of 2 units. (Around 870,000 w/ nesicalive server.)
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 10 Jan 00:19] |
| mbisonhatclub 250th Post
PSN: hadoolket
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Copper Customer
| "Re(2):SNKPlaymore at CES" , posted Tue 11 Jan 08:30
quote:
I dont get it they were supposed to be at CES but didnt show up last minute? What's the story?
I'd like to know, actually!
The picture was just found on google and actually has nothing to do with CES, but I'd thought I'd be a jerk and make fun of the fact that despite the fact SNKP were supposed to be in attendance, there is absolutely no reports on what happened, if anything at all, and there probably was nothing to report to begin with, and they probably weren't there in the first place.
This SNKP bullshit is driving me nuts and making me switch to Capcom's side to play MVC3 instead. They don't even say "Hey we're here we're still working on console port," they just...well, you get what I'm saying, I think. I really would like to let them know I don't like how they operate, as if that would do any good.
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| karasu99 509th Post
PSN: robotchris
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New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(3):NeoGeoStation's shell program an M2 pro" , posted Fri 14 Jan 12:48
quote:
Yeah, too much money for ancient shit. Why do they always start at the back of the NG library? LB2. TWINKLE STAR SPRITES. GAROU. I WILL PAY MONEY FOR THIS YOU STUPID IDIOTS. I hear the netcode sucks anyway. Surprised? Yeah, no.
Still, G-Mantle showed up in their ad for the bundle. I appreciate that much.
Well, $7.99 for each of the ten might be high for some of them, but for my money, it's a bargain for Metal Slug, even all these years later. As much as I hate to dis some of the early Neo Geo titles, I'm not sure who it is who would be that interested in League Bowling (unless it's a bowling fan? maybe?).
Still, I like the idea of Neo Geo titles being rereleased in any form. That way they may never disappear from the world.
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so little time...
"Re(2):Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Wed 27 Oct 03:08
"Re(6):Re(10):KOF & SNKP Thread 5" , posted Wed 27 Oct 23:06
恋文 を ゲット !!!!!! (?) 
"Re(7):ppppppp" , posted Fri 19 Nov 11:54:
