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| Pollyanna 3536th Post
  
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
     
     
|  "Re(1):Random thread Orochi ver." , posted Thu 1 Aug 08:33  
I'm getting a lot of bad WiiU news today. Sales are in the pits, install base is low, it's being outsold by the Wii (implying that people really don't know what it is) and multiplayer is excluded from the new Batman game. They already have a history of excluded/late DLC, so this is even more sad. Also, Pikmin 3 doesn't have online multiplayer, despite having several multiplayer modes. This is industry standard, Nintendo! Get with the program! None of this is helping the sea of uncertainty consumers are already feeling with the system. Bleh.
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I figure the old random thread has lingered too long and takes quite a while to load; this one combines Soul Calibur and Warriors Orochi. I would not have expected this news.
I mean, I'm glad they're having fun, but I don't think, if I was going to pick something to change about Orochi, I would say "it needs more characters." The system improvements made in DW8 kind of invalidate Orochi (which I enjoyed quite a bit) in my eyes.
And from the last thread:
Spoon:
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System Shock Stuff
Thank you for mentioning all of this. Having not played System Shock myself, it puts things in perspective a bit. I don't think "That's how we did it before, so..." is a good excuse for anything, but that certainly is a popular line of thinking.
I haven't played much Bioshock Infinite yet because I picked up Borderlands 2 during the Steam Summer Sale and I am absolutely crazy about it. I'll keep my expectations moderate.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| karasu99 1181th Post
PSN: robotchris
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Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Bureto Faiya Sikusu?" , posted Fri 2 Aug 02:50
quote:
Their slew of other ios titles might also be worth mentioning.
I imagine the idea is "all we need is one Puzzle and Dragon, so we'll throw everything we have at the wall and see what sticks. Even if we're competing with ourselves, it doesn't matter, since production costs are low."
Well, I did have a positive impression of Dragon's Dogma Quest...or I would, if you could actually PLAY the damned thing.
Hahahaha, I think I'm getting shell-shocked enough by being disappointed at poor use of older franchises that something like this doesn't even bother me. Oh well, BoF I-V were great! It was great while it lasted! The reactions list Toxico posted is pretty hilarious though. If they had made it 'BoF: Touch Master Challenge' or whatever no one would have complained-- it's just that making it a numbered game makes it sound so permanent.
I had been thinking of posting about the supremely goofy 'Street Fighter X All Capcom' but you've beaten me to it in the list of newly announced games. Nice that its site thinks enough of my eardrums that it immediately begins blasting generic game music at twice the volume of any other sound on my computer as soon as the page opens, hah!
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I haven't played much Bioshock Infinite yet because I picked up Borderlands 2 during the Steam Summer Sale and I am absolutely crazy about it. I'll keep my expectations moderate.
It's pretty great, huh? I've been playing the PS3 version like crazy for quite a while now.
www.secret-arts.com
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| Pollyanna 3546th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Wonderful" , posted Sat 10 Aug 20:18
quote:
If I wasn't already buying a WiiU for this game, I would be buying a WiiU for this game.
I didn't anticipate that the WiiU would do quite so poorly when I bought it, nor did I anticipate that I would have to wait quite so long for this game. But even if I hadn't bought a WiiU and had laughed at in the months after its launch, I would still have to buy one when this game came out. "What, do you expect me NOT to play it?" is the only excuse I need.
I actually wasn't all that excited about watching the Nintendo Direct, though, as I reach a point where I'm sold on a game and I don't need to have all of its little surprises spoiled for me. Like...mild spoilers raise the excitement level, but I'm no interested in watching 20 minutes of footage.
The thing that's great about seeing this game in action, though, is that it makes my hands itch, like...I want to grab a controller and play it. It's not about the spectacle of seeing things happen, but knowing that making them happen is going to be great. Metal Gear Rising had me mildly interested in trailers, but gave me that irreplaceable "Platinum Euphoria" when I was playing it.
On the downside, it looks like there's a lot of story to get in the way. The scenarios are neat...like... I like how the battles play out in the stages and how the stages progress, but the plot cinemas I can probably live without. Also, the Japanese cast is lackluster and the English vocal cast is spirited, but annoying.
On a side note, everyone compares it to Pikmin, but I'm seeing Bayonetta all over the place.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Pollyanna 3547th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Wonderful" , posted Sun 11 Aug 08:29
quote:
直接!!
The demo is pretty long, something like 15 minutes. It seems there a quite a few secrets, too. I agree once you play it it fills much closer to a mix between Bayo/DMC and (my 2011 GOTY) Atsumate Kirby, rather than Pikmin. It only feels close to pikmin when your gys are down and you rush to get them, or when you press B to get everyone closer to your leader and move faster.
This picture sums up the experience quite nicely.
There certainly is a learning curve, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Instead, I feel like there's "lots of room to grow" with the game. I would say it doesn't resemble Bayonetta very much until you know what you're doing though, hahaha...
How did you play the game? With the tablet or a pro controller? I feel like tracing shapes with your finger on the tablet might be the best option? I can't imagine holding a stylus while I'm playing, since the game requires so much from your hands already. I didn't have any problems getting the shapes I wanted with the pro controller, but I certainly lacked precision in the size of those shapes.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Pollyanna 3549th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Wonderful" , posted Sun 11 Aug 10:18
quote:
Tablet I mean Gamepad. Obviously it would be very difficult to use the stylus, but it's pretty simple to draw with the finger as you only need to draw very basic icons. They did a good job with the color scheme, too. I tried using the right stick (which would be the same as playing on the pro controller) but it felt way less accurate and comfortable.
Also, what happens when you enter buildings if you play with the pro controller? I thought it was a pretty neat touch that the game would resume on the Gamepad's screen but I guess they don't show that? Or do they let you play with the pro controller while watching the Gamepad's screen?
Another advantage of playing that way is that I won't have to get used to it if I want to play "Off TV" mode while my flatmate farms weapons in Dragon's Crown.
When you enter a building, it plays out normally on the pad, so you can hold the pro controller and look at the pad. I have a footstool next to my chair, so this was kind of cute and handy for me, but I can see that the pro controller probably isn't the way to go. Not really a problem, since the gamepad is a (surprisingly) decent controller.
And look at you thinking about utilizing one of the "who cares?" features of an unpopular system! You must exist in the same dimension I do, where there are way too many Vita games to play.
Totally fucking random story:
I sleep with my iPod next to me and check my mail/news sites when I wake up in the middle of the night day. If I have a work emergency or feel like the world is worth taking part in, I wake up...otherwise, I sleep some more. When I saw that the Wonderful 101 demo was available, I ran down the stairs like a kid on Christmas.
Anyway, before I woke up, I was having a most fantastic dream, where I had to go back to grade school. I wanted to make a good impression, so I cosplayed Lightning. When class started, I was like "I already know all this crap," so I said I needed to use the bathroom, left and went to an arcade. They were running a location test for a new 2D Capcom JoJo fighting game. The character select screen was a giant mess of manga panels that scrolled and scrolled through different countries and time periods. You had a very short time to choose your character and I ended up with "The Plants in Front of Jonathan's Mansion," which was a giant potted plant that Gyro carried around. Gyro, for whatever reason, was really beat up and sweating profusely. He fought with the potted plant, but he looked like he really didn't want to be there.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Variable Savior 481th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(7):Wonderful" , posted Mon 12 Aug 02:00
quote:
Anyway, before I woke up, I was having a most fantastic dream, where I had to go back to grade school. I wanted to make a good impression, so I cosplayed Lightning. When class started, I was like "I already know all this crap," so I said I needed to use the bathroom, left and went to an arcade. They were running a location test for a new 2D Capcom JoJo fighting game. The character select screen was a giant mess of manga panels that scrolled and scrolled through different countries and time periods. You had a very short time to choose your character and I ended up with "The Plants in Front of Jonathan's Mansion," which was a giant potted plant that Gyro carried around. Gyro, for whatever reason, was really beat up and sweating profusely. He fought with the potted plant, but he looked like he really didn't want to be there
I'll never be able to explain exactly why but this is fucking perfect (the randomness, the attention to irrelevant detail, etc). I'm using you as a write in vote in the next presidential election.
Blood marks heaven's path
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| Pollyanna 3554th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Wonderful" , posted Wed 14 Aug 06:33
Basara 4 looking a little better!
Depending on how your partner character works and how quickly you can switch between them, this might open up a lot of fun combo possibilities. Also, the team 戯画 (Giga) Basara moves look genuinely cool. What a neat idea. Renders still look kind of wooden, but my impression of the game has improved a bit.
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I'll never be able to explain exactly why but this is fucking perfect (the randomness, the attention to irrelevant detail, etc). I'm using you as a write in vote in the next presidential election.
I'll pass on your kind words to Overage Grader Schooler Dream Polly.
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How is it that Platinum's games have such fantastic demos while others just end up feeling like glitched out buggy messes?
I think it's because their games encourage you to have fun with their (well designed) systems. When I play a demo with a lot of cinematics or just the beginning of the game or whatever, I feel like, "well, I can just play this when I buy the game." But with the Wonderful 101 demo, I feel like "how can I grow with this system? What new things can I try out?" Those sort of feelings ramp me up for the game and let me explore it in a meaningful way that I can apply to the actual game later rather than feeling like I'm just playing the same thing over and over again. It's "playing for the joy of the game."
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| karasu99 1193th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re:Too little Castlevania lately" , posted Thu 22 Aug 05:43
These guys have finally impressed me, at least just a bit, with the recent news about Lords of Shadow 2, indicating that the game will take place on a single night, as any good Castlevania should! Well, except for Simon's Quest of course  Oh, and yeah the headline business about Victor Belmont is kind of neat, but it's the sort of trivia that only the most die-hard, minutiae-obsessed fans would get. And of course there are none of THOSE PEOPLE around here.
Plus, a personal favorite shooter of mine, 鋼鉄帝国 (aka Steel Empire) is coming to 3DS, which just about makes my day! Here's hoping it ends up being the original, without the apparently (and unsurprisingly) crappy GBA music!
www.secret-arts.com
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| Pollyanna 3562th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):More Bravely Bayonetta" , posted Thu 5 Sep 11:49
I've been playing Killer is Dead, which is enjoyable, but typically mediocre for a Suda game. The battle system is good, though...it reminds me Metal Gear Rising a bit (which is a flattering comparison) and the character's faces look really nice. Also, although I don't know that I would listen to the soundtrack a lot on my own time, the sound design for the game as a whole is super nice. Well...I guess that's typical, too.
On the upside, the bullshit mini-game sort of stage elements have mostly been relegated to option missions, though the stages still don't seem to give you enough ass to kick. You have a system where if you attack continuously without getting hit, your attacks get faster and faster and eventually you rack up bonus items as well. The problem is, this system is more dependent on how many enemies they want to throw at you, rather than your skill at the game.
The writing is a bit of a letdown in a strange way. Like...the scenarios are brimming with creativity and unique ideas and there are plenty of cinemas that play out entertainingly, but the short stories are just poorly structured as a whole. There's no connection to any characters or ideas...the conclusions are dramatic, but lacking in any irony or emotional impact that relates to the story. You have a dream-like collection of amazing ideas presented in an attractive manner that lacks any impact whatsoever. If they had put more effort into telling the short stories, it would really be enchanting.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying the game needs to make more sense or that the world needs to be more clear...its vagueness is really appealing...I'm just saying that the stories need to be more thematically and structurally sound. It felt like they had some great ideas, but couldn't drive the point home.
Also, although the gigolo missions are generally unfunny and not sexy, some of the "high score" extra scenes are entertaining. I wish that the girls were better implemented into the plot, rather than having random sexual partners. Like "this girl works here, so she gives you this kind of power up and she knows Mondo this way, so they have this kind of relationship." Before I played the game, I thought Mondo had sex with his clients and that those scenes would accent the story...but not so much. Again, they really could've done something with this, but they didn't.
On a side note, Mondo might be my candidate for "hottest polygon guy."
quote:
I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned that an update to Bravely Default is not just being released but is apparently being brought to the west! As someone who missed out on the original, I'm pretty excited given how folks here were overwhelmingly positive about it.
I'm torn on if I want the Bravely Default update. Normally, I'd be thrilled to play through the game again, but since the game forces you to play through a significant portion of it several times, I felt like I've already had that experience. From what I'm reading, it sounds like some of the new scenes will occur during that portion of the game, so that's kind of a motivator. I don't know if I'd be able to justify playing a game twice when I have so many thinks yet unplayed.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| karasu99 1207th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):More Bravely Bayonetta" , posted Tue 10 Sep 06:34
quote:
I've been playing Killer is Dead, which is enjoyable, but typically mediocre for a Suda game. The battle system is good, though...it reminds me Metal Gear Rising a bit (which is a flattering comparison) and the character's faces look really nice. Also, although I don't know that I would listen to the soundtrack a lot on my own time, the sound design for the game as a whole is super nice. Well...I guess that's typical, too.
On the upside, the bullshit mini-game sort of stage elements have mostly been relegated to option missions, though the stages still don't seem to give you enough ass to kick. You have a system where if you attack continuously without getting hit, your attacks get faster and faster and eventually you rack up bonus items as well. The problem is, this system is more dependent on how many enemies they want to throw at you, rather than your skill at the game.
The writing is a bit of a letdown in a strange way. Like...the scenarios are brimming with creativity and unique ideas and there are plenty of cinemas that play out entertainingly, but the short stories are just poorly structured as a whole. There's no connection to any characters or ideas...the conclusions are dramatic, but lacking in any irony or emotional impact that relates to the story. You have a dream-like collection of amazing ideas presented in an attractive manner that lacks any impact whatsoever. If they had put more effort into telling the short stories, it would really be enchanting.
Once I stopped expecting Grasshopper games to be anything more than brief, vapid timewasters that are nevertheless beautiful and have a great sense of humor, I always end up enjoying them. While I see what you mean about KiD being similar to Metal Gear Rising, I typically view Platinum and Grasshopper as two ends of the spectrum of crafters of beautiful games: Platinum makes drop dead gorgeous games that are a pleasure to play, and Grasshopper makes unbelievably striking, visually stunning, weird weird weird games with a great sense of humor but sadly lacking gameplay.
So, I'm having fun with looking at everything and slogging through the mediocre gameplay. I love the Cowboy Bebop/Blade Runner/James Bond mashup nature of it and the carefully done character design, but it's too short, Gigolo Mode is made even worse by being pretty much required (it was a funny joke, but like a 12 minute Saturday Night Live sketch, it goes on 9 minutes too long), and the dream levels are a pointless pain.
In related news, Grasshopper will be making a game for the PS4 (big surprise), Soul Sacrifice Delta is coming, and Strider will be a launch title for the PS4 in Japan (weirdly enough) but only because, shockingly, the PS4 won't launch there till February 2014?!?
www.secret-arts.com
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| Iggy 9652th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Same old, slightly less old" , posted Wed 11 Sep 05:04
We haven't talked about Basara 4 since the first, disappointing reveal, but the game is shaping up quite... I mean, not too bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxMQTgOWNio
Yes, it is the same game with the same old engine and some prerendered video that manage to not even look totally current-gen. But hey, it still looks dumb enough, and the latest characters seem better than Shima Sakon and Shibata. I quite like Ii Naotora, she might even be my favourite female character introduced in the series since Basara 2(which is, obviously, not a big deal).
I just wonder what's going on with the proportion of the characters. Some newcomers of 3 were already extremely slim (Ishida mostly) but it seems that all the new characters of 4 have been designed by Clamp. Will Honda Tadakatsu MK2 have a slimer "Eva-shaped" model?
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| Baines 374th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(5):More Bravely Bayonetta" , posted Wed 11 Sep 14:55:
quote:
the other musou and NEW KAGERO IS COMING
I wonder if Samurai Warriors 4 will be as forgettable as 3.
I've never figured out what I didn't like about 3, but it just didn't feel interesting. I never even finished several of the character's stories. It was just...boring.
It wasn't that it was a Wii game. It just felt smaller and less interesting than the average Musou/Warriors game. I got tired of playing the same few stages faster than normal, and the fighting didn't have the same impact. Most of the stages (both story and Murasame Castle) weren't particularly fun, feeling more like work to complete.
I quit some time after realizing that I was only doing two things, playing the same late battle for the easy weapon pick ups at the start (and then suiciding), and playing one or two Murasame Castle stages. I was playing to get weapons for characters that I didn't have any interest in playing to complete story modes that I didn't have any interest in completing. The only fun I was having was from the couple of Murasame stages that I played, castle stages that were mostly straight forward beat-em-ups.
But I'm still not sure why I was so disinterested.
Displaying sub-missions in advance on the mini-map didn't help how I felt. Warriors games have long had a fairly linear flow for where you are supposed to go at any particular time, but having the specific locations displayed on the map before you even start just hammered that point home. I remember how interesting it felt the first time I saw a map where it looked like you'd have to make a choice as to which sub-missions you would attempt, and thinking how maps could take advantage of making the player choose between different rewards. And then all that interest drained away when I played that stage, only to see the "out of place" sub-missions rearrange themselves so that I could easily hit them all without even diverting from the expected travel path. That might have been when the game first started to sour on me.
[this message was edited by Baines on Wed 11 Sep 14:57] |
| Mosquiton 1932th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):Sega to purchase Atlus" , posted Wed 18 Sep 16:15:
quote:
Bloomberg, Asahi, Nikkei and a few other places are reporting that Sega will aquire Atlus. Kotaku is the only thing close to an news site that's got it in English at the moment. W, WOAH! "THAT WAS THE BEST FIGHT I EVER SAW!"
Seriously, though, Sega getting to buy Atlus is like using your pile of bronze to buy gold bullion. What a bizarre, ironic situation that while Sega is "helping" Atlus away from Index, Atlus' creative value as a game developer is tenfold that of Sega at this point. It's like when Enix ate Square and Square still got to have its name first, if only on paper.
I approve of your invoking the Alpha 3 announcer. Are you saying Square is the Sega in the relationship?
I've always had sympathy for Enix. They made some interesting publishing decisions at least, and I feel like a lot of the execs that have really screwed up the Squeenix conglomerate came from the Square side. It always seemed to me like Square Enix failed to properly care for tri-Ace, which is a bummer. What have those guys been doing after FFXIII-2 (case in point)? And strangely enough, tri-Ace's Resonance of Fate was published by Sega.
So yeah, Sega isn't half as cool as it used to be (and not even half as cool as Capcom currently is, which is not even half as cool as Sega once was), but Atlus could probably do worse.
Man, there's really no escaping the fact that the Japanese games industry is kind of a pale shadow of what it used to be, though.
Things can always get better though... right?
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Wed 18 Sep 16:17] |
| karasu99 1224th Post
PSN: robotchris
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Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):raise the wookie" , posted Sat 21 Sep 03:01:
quote:
gee tee eh
As long as it didn't turn into the equivalent of an old grump complaining about the kids today with their weird clothes and loud music I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the GTA franchise. No matter what one thinks of the series they are an enormous success and have influenced the industry as a whole.
Haha, well I'm not sure I'm capable of complaining about the kids these days in quite that way. After all, it's not like GTA is a new series. While I'm sure a fair share of the GTAV-gushers are new to the franchise, I'll bet a lot have been playing for quite some time. It would be like if I was being grumpy about 'movies these days' but the movies I was talking about were 'Terminator' and 'Back to the Future'.
Okay, so I'll try and coalesce my thoughts, avoiding curmudgeonry where possible:
I've always been astounded by the popularity of movies like Scarface among 'just regular folks'-- and I don't mean its popularity as a work of art or a masterpiece of film or directing, I mean just people I know who watch it every couple of months and who can't help themselves from quoting 'say hello to my little friend', complete with accent, over and over. This is a lot like how I feel about GTA's popularity. The people I have in mind aren't (at least not obviously) sociopaths, they're just... well, a lot of them are dudebros whose only other interest in gaming hews heavily towards sports and Call of Duty games. And then there are friends of mine for whom the game clearly falls into 'guilty pleasure' territory. A conversation I've had with one of these people goes something like this:
Me: "So how is GTAV?"
Friend: "IT'S AWESOME! IT'S SO COOL! Last night I was playing it way past when I wanted to go to bed. I played a TON of tennis, then some golf. Then I took home a stripper and then I ran over a bunch of pedestrians."
Me: "So it's a bunch of mini games."
Friend: "Well kind of. It's this whole open world, and you can do whatever you want."
Me: "Okay, so you could do whatever you want to, and you wanted to run a bunch of people over."
Friend: "No, it's not like that."
Me: "What's it like then?"
Friend: "..."
...and so on. I don't think there are any games I personally play where I feel I need to qualify it with "but it's a really great game despite all these weird questionable aspects!" The closest I can come is Bayonetta, where my qualifications consisted of "it's a little strange" when recommending it to the aforementioned dudebros. The bottom line seems to be: the game gives you the chance to murder hobos, even though it doesn't explicitly direct you to go murder hobos, so most of the people who play are damn well going to go murder hobos.
For me, I don't especially want to play a game where I'm cast as a sociopath with all of the tools of actually being that in-game sociopath (or worse) at my disposal. It just doesn't appeal to me. Let's be clear: games cast you as all kinds of characters, some more deplorable than others, but you're rarely given the ability to act out that storyline. Sure, I know I'm slicing things pretty thin when I suggest than any war-themed game allows you to do just that, but it's also in the context of a war, not just deciding to pull a rocket launcher out and blow away a bunch of random people in front of a library. I'll be clear in case I was vague in my previous post: the game is fine, people are fine for playing it, the game should continue to be sold. I just don't want to play it.
I know someone's probably thinking "what about Yakuza? It's about killers and gangsters and such too!" The thing with Yakuza is that despite being a criminal, Kiryu Kazuma is cast as a noble guy who will do the right thing for the people who depend on him. I'm convinced that's why in-game random fights are with jackasses who pick them with you, not just random bystanders. It's also why Kiryu can be cast as Sakamoto Ryoma in the Yakuza Ishin. It's also a game full of artistry and overblown scenes of tattooed guys throwing off their shirts and fighting hand on the roofs of skyscrapers. It's pretty telling that the Yakuza games rarely feature any of the actual activities that real life yakuza are somewhat notorious for, like rigging gambling machines, shaking down businesses, and extorting protection money. Those activities might be referenced, but you don't actually do any of them in game. When you go into a convenience store, you buy the stuff, you don't murder the storekeeper with an AK-47 and then steal the money in his cash register.
Anyway, I think I'm drifting from my point as usual. I'm guessing most folks want to play GTA for the escapist fun. A very good friend of mine explains that he likes the games because he can do almost anything he wants to. I think it's a great accomplishment that there can be a game where all of the worst impassible 'low walls' and invisible barriers that are in so many other 'open world' games don't exist. Let's face it, it's disappointing to go into an arcade in Yakuza and there's ALL THESE GAMES, but you can only play that one. And maybe if Sega had the kind of budget for a Yakuza game that Rockstar has for GTA, you could play ALL the games in the arcade. I just wish that it didn't have to be this gross kind of 'anything goes' unartful mess. I also like that with each installment the game gets bigger and bigger in scope. I won't begrudge anyone their desire to play the game or their love of it. And I'd love to have somebody set me straight if I'm off base on any of these counts. Like I said, I've never played these games, but since they garner SO MUCH coverage in gaming media, it's impossible for me to have no clue about them whatsoever.
In case of TL;DR: I don't want to play a game as a sociopath in a game world where my behavior is clearly sociopathic within the game's context.
www.secret-arts.com
[this message was edited by karasu99 on Sat 21 Sep 03:07] |
| Ishmael 4724th Post
PSN: Ishmael26b
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):raise the wookie" , posted Sat 21 Sep 22:27
It's funny, I like the individual components that GTA is using but I don't like the way that GTA puts them together. It's gotten to the point that I found GTA4 to be an unplayable, awful game. A lot of my dislike of that game probably comes from pacing problems and less than smooth controls but I think the posts here have made me the bigger problem I have with the games: they allow you the wrong kind of freedom for the story they are trying to tell.
GTA4 was trying to tell the story of a haunted man who was trying and failing to start a new life. That's interesting and should have been something I would enjoy playing. Instead, the game expected me to steal a car and drive on the sidewalk just so the characters could do something as mundane as go bowling. The inconsistent tone lost me. If GTA4 had allowed me to interact with the world in a manner similar to the Yakuza games I probably would have enjoyed the game a lot more.
It's not that I'm saying that all sandbox games are a bad idea, since I actually enjoy the Saints Row games and those are nothing but snotty GTA clones. But in SR I'm obviously playing a Batman villain so my idiotic, violent actions in those games seem much more natural. Instead, it's more a matter of picking the correct tone for the game mechanics. I rather liked Red Dead Redemption but I never did crazy things in that game since my impression of the main character was that he wasn't the type to enjoy pointless random chaos. The resources used in RDR to allow you to rob stores or whatever could have just as easily been left out and would not have hurt the game in the least.
No, wait, now that I think about it my main problem with GTA is that it's not RDR. I want more games where I can wear a six shooter and ride a horse. Forget all these modern crime games, where are the cowboy games?
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| karasu99 1225th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(8):raise the wookie" , posted Sun 22 Sep 04:44
quote:
It's funny, I like the individual components that GTA is using but I don't like the way that GTA puts them together. It's gotten to the point that I found GTA4 to be an unplayable, awful game.
Haha, who wouldn't like more RDR? Or western-themed games in general?
Those are some interesting observations on GTA, and I think it intersects well with what I was feeling about it. I'd rather it just not even bother with having a storyline which it then has to work against. At least a game like God of War, where you can do things where you're a deplorable bastard, has the sense to cast you and write you as a deplorable bastard to start with and not have you do some task where you're flipping burgers to pay for your trip to Sparta of whatever.
HokutoAndy, while I see the point you're trying to make, I'll just say what I've said before: AD&D, while certainly giving you an opportunity to be a horrible person, is also very much subject to the whim of the Dungeonmaster, who can easily and readily make you pay dearly for acting like a jackass. Or at least all of the DMs who I campaigned with in my youth were like this; your experience may be different. GTA, if it's like a modern AD&D, is perhaps like a campaign where the DM has gone to buy more beer and told the adventurers to do whatever they want while he's away.
www.secret-arts.com
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| Spoon 2490th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):raise the wookie" , posted Sun 22 Sep 05:35
GTA's appeal i think is quite multifaceted, and different parts of it strike different people most strongly. When I first played GTA3, the opening moment of stepping into a car, the radio turning on and playing a refreshing electronic tune, the camera pulling back and the minimap pulling out as you accelerated... it gave an at the time incredible sense of something huge and detailed and amazing to explore. The hidden package kind of reinforced that to me.
Trying to get around the city in a law abiding fashion while in a car is extraordinarily frustrating. I don't think driving like a sociopath is motivated by wanting to be a sociopath, but rather that that is just the most convenient way to get around, and the chaos and hilarity of the results and trying to deal with them are entertaining in their own right. The games are full of varied missions, and many of them give you some freedom in how you approach them. While some of the mechanics have been really quite unpolished (the gunplay in GTA3 on console was kind of awful, made better on the PC, but still crude even by the standards of those days), they are sufficient.
Your ability to traverse and explore the world in Yakuza is much, much more limited than in GTA. I can sympathize with Andy's D&D sentiments, but I don't think it's quite the same, because choosing to ignore all plot and simply tool around for hours is a huge part of the fun of GTA, while doing something like that in a D&D game would require a willingness on the part of the DM and the other players to play along with that.
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| Mosquiton 1935th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Welcome to the GTA World!" , posted Sun 22 Sep 16:11:
quote:
The games are full of varied missions, and many of them give you some freedom in how you approach them.
The missions giving you freedom in how you approach them is mostly true of GTA3... starting with Vice City there was a lot of "we've decided you'll use this gun for this mission" and "GET BACK IN THE MISSION VEHICLE I mean come on we picked it out especially for you and NO SERIOUSLY you're going to fail the mission unless you get back in this specific vehicle" and "we've reset the entire world when you started this mission so don't bother trying to set up a road block with parked cars or leave a faster car nearby as a getaway vehicle unless we expressly tell you to do it" and "okay the chase starts when the cutscene ends and the guy has a good headstart on you and is taking this predetermined path."
In GTA3 I had so much more freedom to screw around. If knew I had to chase down a guy and beat him to death, I would park a car to block the alleyway and then corner him. I'd often try to trick targets into getting into a vehicle I'd set up with a car bomb. It's so much more fun when you do that kind of thing yourself! I don't want to follow the Ehow guide to pulling off a job, I want to do some criminal mother$^#%#*g mad libs!
...
This is my biggest annoyance with the way the series has developed. I wish they'd focused on making the world interesting to screw around without trying to tell you a CINEMATIC HOLLYWOOD STORY with WELL-DEFINED CHARACTERS that do things that YOU MAY NOT WANT THEM TO DO BUT REALIZE YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL OVER.
This is the same direction many, many other Triple-A games have taken. See the development of the Assassin's Creed for another example of this terrible and regressive shit way of thinking *ahem* "modern game design". You know I was actually kind of upset I had to betray the Yakuza in GTA3. I imagined that later games might give me a choice on who I allied with! Boy was I completely and utterly wrong. I totally set myself up for disappointment.
(Disclaimer: I still enjoyed Vice City for what it was, San Andreas was super-bloated but had an interesting idea with the dynamic turf war, I think GTA4 is kind of crap, and GTA5 is still pretty impressive and a better game than the previous installment.)
quote:
Your ability to traverse and explore the world in Yakuza is much, much more limited than in GTA.
It's true, but limitations define a game. Sure you can go anywhere in a GTA game, and that's certainly a strength of the series... but can you set up a dojo and take in students and train them to be martial arts champions? Every game picks what you can and can't do. I can agree with Ishmael that I like when what the game lets you do and what you feel like the character would do match up.
GTA5 kind of addresses this with Trevor being a psychopath and giving him the rampage missions, but why does Franklin help the paparazzo? Probably the same reason John Marston helps the loathsome snake oil salesman. "Papa always told me, never look a quest horse in the mouth." My biggest annoyance about RDR was that my crosshairs turned into an "x" when I targeted that asshole.
quote:
I can sympathize with Andy's D&D sentiments, but I don't think it's quite the same, because choosing to ignore all plot and simply tool around for hours is a huge part of the fun of GTA, while doing something like that in a D&D game would require a willingnes on the part of the dungeonmaster
I think he's also saying that older D&D wasn't always so epic quest focused. It really was about getting into trouble... get rich or die trying.
This is why they called it the Dungeon Master's Guide instead of the EPIC STORYTELLING MASTERS QUEST AND PLOT PROGRESSION AID.
Also sorry if I come off like a jerk in this post, your post was just the easiest to quote and get all my silly comments in. :D
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sun 22 Sep 16:31] |
| Spoon 2491th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Welcome to the GTA World!" , posted Sun 22 Sep 17:13
quote:
The missions giving you freedom in how you approach them is mostly true of GTA3...
Interesting, because it is the only GTA I ever beat!
quote:
freedom of traversal versus directed activities
limitations
I agree that having things to do that fit the character enhance the game. The main character in GTA3 didn't really have a defined personality, though... which isn't necessarily a bad thing! I personally think that freedom of exploration and having a variety of ways to move around the environment is a critical part of the GTA games, and the games are made with that in mind. Think about the ramps that are there just for you to jump a vehicle off of, sometimes in locations that made me wonder how I was going to get a vehicle there intact. Kazuma being stuck on the ground level and having to have to walk around fits who he is, and fits the context of the game. Being able to see the environment from every angle and go about it in any way you can come up with is an intentional point of the GTA series. I think the point I want to make is that the freedom of movement isn't a matter of haphazard sloppy design, but a key part of the feel of the game, and not something to be quickly dismissed.
RGG 1 and 2 to me have the same feeling of many Japanese games: it is a whole bunch of carefully designed things, but the connection of each of those things to each other is often minor. The fighting part is the fighting part, the walking around part is the walking around part, the nightclub management part is the nightclub management part, and so on. They are tenuously connected by the character of Kazuma, but otherwise operate in isolation. In the chaos games of GTA and other such open world games, the fighting part the driving part the escorting prostitutes part and the getting fat part all exist together simultaneously. If I had to run a nightclub in a GTA type game I would expect my business discussion to be interrupted by an ambulance crashing through the storefront chasing the guy I set on fire, escalating into a gun fight with a rival gang who came because the ambulance hit one of their guys by accident and now they are shooting me and I hope they don't hit one of the girls I just gave a gift to. Ok, it's not quite there yet, but in my IMAGINATION that's the kind of thing that happens. Ideally more of these things wouldn't involve just destruction/motor vehicles/combat, but I can't have everything.
I think RGG and GTA are very different games, even though they are tangentially related by having a world you have some freedom to walk around in and criminal activity being a central aspect/theme/whatever of the game. Standardized comparison of the two might seem to make sense on some points, but I am not certain it's totally valid.
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| Mosquiton 1937th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):Welcome to the GTA World!" , posted Tue 24 Sep 01:09:
quote:
I agree that having things to do that fit the character enhance the game. The main character in GTA3 didn't really have a defined personality, though... which isn't necessarily a bad thing!
I totally agree with you here, although Rockstar is now focusing on making very defined characters... and I think that works against their game design unfortunately.
quote:
I personally think that freedom of exploration and having a variety of ways to move around the environment is a critical part of the GTA games, and the games are made with that in mind... I think the point I want to make is that the freedom of movement isn't a matter of haphazard sloppy design, but a key part of the feel of the game, and not something to be quickly dismissed.
Again, I totally agree. I actually remember parking a car next to a gate of a secured building, climbing on top of the car, and then jumping the fence to get into a place I wasn't supposed to get.
This was in GTA3 of course.
quote:
RGG 1 and 2 to me have the same feeling of many Japanese games: it is a whole bunch of carefully designed things, but the connection of each of those things to each other is often minor. The fighting part is the fighting part, the walking around part...
True, I think the new GTA games are slightly guilty of this as well, though. The golf, tennis, and what have you are very distinct from the rest of the open world experience.
The missions have also changed to effectively become instances. You won't have random unexpected things happen in most missions because the missions have been very carefully and deliberately scripted. They can't have too much random chaos intruding in their carefully laid plans!
Like you I essentially love GTA3. As for comparing it to RGG/Yakuza, sure they are very different games, and it would be silly to say that one should be like the other...
But they are both videogames, and there are certainly similarities beyond the most basic level. I think its interesting and even useful to compare and contrast the two.
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Tue 24 Sep 01:15] |
| Iggy 9658th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Historical sword-propeller action" , posted Tue 24 Sep 19:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un7pwKE1UGw
With guest stars Matsunaga, KJ, Nagamasa, Oichi and Ôtani according to the eagle eyes of the Internets.
I wonder how many of them will be playable, and if any of them will only appear in cutscenes (like Takeda Shingen in Vanilla 3). Matsunaga and Ôtani in particular seem good candidates for "and you'll play them in the ++ version!". Or as paid DLC, since some costumes are already confirmed to be unlocked that way.
Now, I'd like them to confirm Nôhime and Ranmaru (well, mostly Nôhime) and also what's going on with the Uesugi clan (Kenshin playable but no Kasuga? Vice-versa? With Takeda non playable, all options seem weird... But I wouldn't be happy if neither were playable this time again. Kasuga is overdue for gameplay tweaks).
Same question for Hôjô. Gameplay wise, the new characters (plus Sasuke playable from the start) seem to make Fûma quite redundant... Will they keep the lovable Ujimasa? Will they somehow acknowledge the new historical setting and trade him for Ujiyasu?
Ah, and also, what's going on with Imagawa. Since he's such an important character (and related to a few of the new faces), is he going to come back tweaked? Are they going to simply have him as a low-grade boss? Or even totally ignore him?
Same question for Kuroda. Same question for Amago as well, but with lower importance because Amago sucks in Basara.
And while we're there, more Maeda sappy romance! The couple was not as charming in 3 as they were in 1 and 2.
Well, looking back, that's a lot of pending questions. 4 more months!
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| nobinobita 1224th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(7):Steambox Open Source Controller" , posted Sat 28 Sep 07:34
quote:
What's next, free consoles?
Considering that the SteamOS is free and will be open source, you're not that far off.
The Steambox controller looks interesting:
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
Instead of a traditional D pad + analog stick + buttons setup, it's got dual track pads surrounded by buttons and a touch screen in the middle.
At first glance it looks like a combination of all my least favorite controllers ever (touch and swipe controls have never felt good to me). However, it supposedly has some new way of giving finely tuned physical feedback through the track pads.
It looks like it might work out well for 3d games, particularly FPS stuff.
I'm all for it; back in the day I remember (and am embarrassed by) reacting negatively toward the addition of analog sticks on the second version PS1 controllers. Why would you need all that wiggly control when you've got a perfectly good directional pad? Why indeed. (although in my defense I still often use the directional pad rather than the analog sticks when given the choice)
My point is, why not trackpads? Ten years from now (or two) we could all be laughing over peoples' trepidation. Plus they might even survive longer than most analog stick-equipped controllers-- I went through about 8 Dreamcast controllers, and the stick was the point of failure on all but one.
Now that I think about it though
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Yeah I wish them the best! Hope it works out!
I've mostly had bad experiences with trackpads, dating all the way back to 1992 with the Turbo Touch 360:
http://www.videogamemuseum.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/TRIAX-Turbo-Touch-360-SNES-Super-Nintendo-Controller.JPG
Display Model
It seemed like a nice enough idea, reducing strain on the thumb. But the lack of physical feedback really killed it for me. Like it was the first time in my short life that I was actually angry at a controller haha.
However the super smart folks at Valve seem to have a solution for this. I really hope it works out. I have started to come around on trackpads lately, especially since I got a mac book. First time I've ever had a laptop where I never feel a need to reach for a mouse.
I'm excited to try it out.
www.art-eater.com
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| HAYATO 1140th Post
PSN: Lord-Hayato
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(8):Steambox Open Source Controller" , posted Sun 29 Sep 06:56
quote:
Maybe it's for the casual-friendly abscence of feedback (like with touch-screen controls). It's more or less the same feeling of playing with a phone than a mouse... but interesting nonetheless.
The problem I think will be in the game itself.. I can't imagine playing a fighting game, an action game (a la DMC) or a platformer with that layout
Pretty much this. Although it may sound rather odd coming from a sturdy, Seimitsu-like feedback advocate like me, I don't mind much about their decision of implementing tactile controllers (I'll give Valve the benefit of the doubt until I try the device), but this gadget's button layout is pretty awkward, to say the least. Were I an FPS enthusiast, I'd love to give this new peripheral a try, but for a guy like me, keen on arcade classics and fighting games I'll let this one slip, as said button layout rendered the new pad useless to me. Guess I'll have to stick to my DualShock 3 and Hori RAP3 for the time being...
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| Iggy 9662th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Wonderful headache" , posted Mon 30 Sep 03:07
So, I finally took the time to play W101 on WiiU.
Long story short: it's Bayonetta, except more complex, more tiring, and much less easy to read.
I still understand most (?) of what( I think) is happening and the game is definitely for me. But I understand the relative lack of interest in most forums: it's very difficult to understand what it's about, what you're supposed to do, and the game sucks at explaining itself. It's basically not only for the hardcore fringe of gamers (on WiiU of all consoles), it's for the hardcore fringe of Bayo fans (on WiiU of all consoles).
I really hope Bayo2 will be more focused (at least it shouldn't have the visibility issue of W101, I suppose).
However, not unlike U:Saga, it's a great game for the players who will invest time into understanding what's going on and what the game expect them to do. It's just... a lot of time.
Maybe I'm too old.
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| karasu99 1228th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):Wonderful headache" , posted Mon 30 Sep 10:03
quote:
Steam controller
I've been mystified for years at how PC gamers can use things like Mice and keyboards to play extremely complex action games. Given that, I guess it's possible that any kind of controller can work for SOMEONE.
quote:
W101
I'm embarrassed (as a huge Bayo fan) to admit that I haven't picked up W101 yet, even though I keep meaning to. I've been busy enough with work and with handheld games (see below) and with Killer is Dead and Jojo that I just haven't gotten it.
Still, I LOVED the demo, so I know it's just a matter of time. I like that it's a little bit dense, like older games that didn't hold your hand quite as much, and my only complaint is that the demo sometimes tells you to do things but gives you almost no feedback about how to do said things. Ah well.
SO, random thread: anybody else here a fan of Etrian Odyssey? Completely at random (fittingly) I grabbed the demo of EOIV, and I'm surprised at how much I've been loving it. It scratches that old-school dungeon crawler itch as well as the matching old-school game mapping itch that I had forgotten I even had. I also like that the story is nonexistent, since I sometimes find RPG storylines to be insufferably overdramatic. Sure, the enemies are a little boring and it's very grind, but it ends up making me feel like a bit of a pathfinder, since the mapping bit is so integral. And like a roguelike, since time stops when you're not moving, you can really take your time.
www.secret-arts.com
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| Pollyanna 3564th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Wonderful headache" , posted Tue 1 Oct 06:26
quote:
I'm embarrassed (as a huge Bayo fan) to admit that I haven't picked up W101 yet, even though I keep meaning to. I've been busy enough with work and with handheld games (see below) and with Killer is Dead and Jojo that I just haven't gotten it.
Still, I LOVED the demo, so I know it's just a matter of time. I like that it's a little bit dense, like older games that didn't hold your hand quite as much, and my only complaint is that the demo sometimes tells you to do things but gives you almost no feedback about how to do said things. Ah well.
I've been busy myself, so I haven't gotten to play as much as I'd like. Also, Monster Hunter 4 and Final Fantasy 14 are glaring at me.
But yes, as just about everyone says, the game does an awful job of teaching you and when it does try to teach you, as you mentioned, it gives you very poor feedback. I share your positive reception about the game not holding your hand quite as much, though and it seems like I'm probably more fond of the game than Iggy (?). My official take is "it's arguably better than Bayonetta, which is the best in its genre."
Anyway, the way that the game is so forgiving with its continue system and so harsh with its grading system isn't normally my cup of tea, but because the game is so dense, it works out really nicely. Clearing a level the first time with continues is isn't a challenge...it's a test run. You're confused and panicked here and there and you get to see all the sights whether you quite understand them yet or not. You get your consolation prize, then you go for the real run now that you've picked up some new tricks for success. Playing this way has been hugely rewarding for me, but I can see where a number of players might not fall into the groove so readily. On normal difficulty, I kind of wish you couldn't progress with a consolation prize rank. If people just want to advance through the game, they can play it on easy or very easy.
I would like to retract my earlier sentiment that using the right analog isn't ideal for tracing shapes, though. It has a learning curve, but tracing with my finger doesn't give me the speed or the accuracy I want. Or rather, I should say the touch pad isn't responsive enough to my finger.
I have had one very strange problem with the game, though. The first time I had to make a triangle for the hang glider, I couldn't do it. I tried like...80 times in a row. I watched 3 different videos of people doing it. Still no good. Suddenly, I could do it. I did it successfully 5 times in a row just to make sure. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I DID DIFFERENTLY. The same thing happens every time. It's a flip of a coin as to whether I'll be able to do a hang glider or not and I have absolutely no clue what the "X factor" is. You don't even have to make a good triangle...just make something that vaguely resembles one, make sure you have the rainbow line and press the button...right? Right!?
On a somewhat random note, to illustrate how much I love this game, I was playing the other day, finished a level and was just shaking my head at how creative and fun it was. Then I got to thinking about how much love was put into the game and how unfortunate Platinum has been with capturing people's hearts. I thought about how few people would play this unwanted game on this unwanted system and I literally broke into tears. So while I scarcely have time to play the games I love, I evidently have time to sit and cry about them.
quote:
SO, random thread: anybody else here a fan of Etrian Odyssey? Completely at random (fittingly) I grabbed the demo of EOIV, and I'm surprised at how much I've been loving it. It scratches that old-school dungeon crawler itch as well as the matching old-school game mapping itch that I had forgotten I even had.
I keep trying to like these games, but I think the mapping system is just not for me. I love dungeons that are big enough that I have to make little maps or take little notes, but when those elements are incorporated into the game itself, it becomes a pain. Every time I mess up drawing a line (which is admittedly a very minor inconvenience), I think "Why do I need to be doing this? Can't they do it for me?". I'm just not in on the "map drawing roman." The dungeon is the joy, the map is the necessity. I wish they had separate settings to appeal to different levels of cartography fetishes. Mine would be "just here for the dungeon, thank you."
Again, this is a "just not for me" personal complaint, though. Most people who are fond of the game tend to mention the mapping as a very positive point, as you did. The series is successful enough, so I just have to assume that while it looks like I might be in the target audience, I'm actually not.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Mosquiton 1940th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(7):Wonderful headache" , posted Tue 1 Oct 13:57:
quote:
Polly do you write about games in any more official/permanent capacity anywhere? I've always enjoyed your thoughts on games. Your offhand comments about the hotblooded aesthetics of Senran Kagura are 1000x more interesting and smart than the innumerable dissections of Bioshock littering the internet.
You understand the parts of games that give them personality and really make them special. And it's these parts of games that a lot of the gaming press seems to be totally blind too.
If you aren't already writing articles about games somewhere, do you have any interest in starting? I'd support the heck out of anything you write.
Games journalism is getting really really really stupid lately. Really stupid. Really stupid while managing to brand itself as smart and progressive.
I would love to see your voice out there in the mix because you actually have interesting and enlightening things to say.
Isn't that the wonderful thing about the Cafe, though? There are people here like Polly who truly love games, speaking to their fellow lovers of games, and things flow very comfortably and freely. I'm frequently amazed that this place still exists.
I feel that because the things one writes here aren't being picked apart or thoughtlessly discounted by random strangers, the Madman's Cafe is a perfect place to share personal views. You can let your guard down a bit without having to worry too much about a cheap sucker punch. I know that I'm in good company when I post here... I think I've said this before but I really like you guys.
In general I don't think good, honest, interesting writing about games is as rewarded, valued, or as visible as it deserves to be. But I'm happy enough to be able to find it here!
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Tue 1 Oct 14:01] |
| Iggy 9664th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Wonderful headache" , posted Wed 2 Oct 02:40
quote:
I'd really like to hear your long story short take on Crusader Kings 2. I am truly fascinated with the game although I don't have a suitable machine to play it on at the moment. What have your kingly crusades been like so far?
I'll do my best...
The first thing is, as I was saying, I'm really a big fan of Civilization since 2, so there was no real novelty in "invade the Vatican with the Vikings", "Conquer Europe with the Mongols" or "Invade Spain with the Aztecs". Of course, that's always fun and all, but that's not new anymore. Which is why I rarely play these kinds of 4X pseudo-historical games outside of Civ: I'm not one to look for new things when I'm comfortable with what I have now. In other words, when I play a new such game, I’m not merely looking for entertainment, I’m looking for a kind of entertainment Civ doesn’t already provide.
And that’s why CK2 stands out so much. The core difference is that you’re not playing a nation, or a country or a town: you’re playing as a person, ruling that piece of land. And it’s not like playing Napoleon or Ashurbanipal from -4000 to 2050AD : your character lives, marries, has kids, and dies. The role-playing random events (you catch a cold, your son is dumb, you steal a jewel from a minister’s wife just for the kicks of it) enrich your relation to your avatar to a point I rarely encountered in a video game.
At a certain difficulty level, Civ is really just a table game: you learn the rules, you play by the rules, you play the rules, and exploit the failures of the IA at your advantage. In that aspect, CK2 is the same… except there is no victory condition. There is no space race, no UN, and absolute total domination is neither entertaining to achieve nor sustainable, since your character will die and it is very difficult to make sure you chosen heir will inherit your whole empire without horribly complex succession wars and secessions. CK2 is more like a sandbox, without a start, without an end, where you simply decide what your feel like doing today, and, once you have decided the baron of the little village you’re from will marry the princess of wherever, you set sail and try to achieve your goal. Or have the game to tell your story.
Indeed, at a low difficulty level (which is where I play CK2), Civ is simply a building game where you design your empire the way you like on a big map, while CK2 is a medieval drama generator. Most of my games only lasted a generation or two: I start with a character somewhere, try to expand his dominion while shaping up his character (or learning what he’ll become), raise his kids, and when death comes, start again with the heir of the throne if he seemed interesting. Not powerful or has amazing stats: interesting. Does he hate his father because he is as ambitious and greedy as I was honest and altruistic? Does he hate the woman I remarried with after his mother died? Is his only dream to become king, and he will stop at nothing to achieve it? Did he already murder a few people in order to secure more inheritance? Did he even murder me?
As a serious history geek, I have the utmost contempt for Game of Thrones fans who try to make it pass for “medieval drama”. That’s fantasy, morons; go back to your dragons. CK2 is an extremely capable medieval-drama-generator, and that’s what makes it so delightful and unlike anything else, either Civ or Europa Universalis.
I loved playing as a manipulative Tuscan duchess, poisoning my neighbour’s relatives and sleeping with my husband’s brother while giving huge amount of money to the pope so that everyone would know how virtuous and pure I am, until my third son I tried to have assassinated (because I loved the first much more and the second had been castrated as a bishop) rebelled and put me in prison for the rest of my life.
I played a Viking conqueror who was raiding Normandy and Brittany not only for loot, but for children and pure virgins to sacrifice to Odin until he had founded the holy pagan empire of Scandinavia. I declared Barcelonan independence and plotted with the caliphate to weaken my Madrid rival while sleeping with his daughter. I fought to death with my brother about the crown of Provence, until we were both so exhausted that we were exterminated by a sudden outburst of Italian civil war (and I knew this soup tasted funny). I played as a baron trying to overthrow a retarded duke whose parents apparently were cousins, until my cruelty and lack of empathy got the better of me and I got stabbed in a dark alley by his chancellor who was eying the same throne as I.
All the soap-opera events and micro-history manipulation is what makes it much different from Civ (as Civ quickly escalates to country-against-country full out war, and personal alliances generally last as long as your bank account). Having everything set on a personal level makes CK much more amusing, if you have the imagination to give life to these portraits: the game gives you the tools, and it's up to you to build up your story. If Civ is Risk, CK is a good old box of Playmobils.
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| badoor 340th Post
PSN: BadoorSNK/PSVITA:BadoorUSA
XBL: BadoorSNK/WiiU:BadoorSNK
Wii: 3DS:4253-3532-0341
Bronze Customer
| "Re(4):Wonderful headache" , posted Wed 2 Oct 06:34:
quote:
Karasu99 on Etrian Odyssey
I've been playing Etrian Odyssey 4 (my first Etrian Odyssey) ever since its release. But I haven't finished it yet. I'm 20 hours in (which might be less than halfway thru!). I always admired the series from afar beforehand, in how it reduced RPG mechanics to its basics, cutting out all the fat, and then amping up the difficulty. I also like how it took the oldschool off-TV skill base of map-making and integrated it into the game itself. But most of all I liked it for the Yuzo Koshiro FM soundtrack.
I tried the EO4 demo pre-release, loved it, and then bought the game on release day (just as the marketers intended I suppose). And I love it for the same reasons Karasu mentioned. I do love its no BS attitude, with its very lean, only-serves-to-move-you-from-one-area-to-the-next story.
Which is why I'm slightly disappointed (actually I don't think disappointment is the right word. Maybe apathetic) with the new remake of EO1, Etrian Odyssey Untold. For that, they added a story mode, with predefined characters and such, that from all accounts is quite the boring, cookie cutter one. It seems antithetical to the whole point of the series (Although I heard the original Etrian Odyssey had a clever storytwist near the end). That said, the remake does have classic mode that plays similarly to any other EO (you can even choose either the FM Synth original soundtrack or the new remade arranged one).
Since I'm still ways off from beating EO4, and since I have bought EO3 and have yet to start that, I might have to wait for a while before I get EOU.
quote:
TW101
I picked it up and played it for a few hours. I like it so far but I know that I need to work just a little bit more until it really clicks for me and I love it, which is funny considering I thought I "got" the game and understood how it plays in maybe 2 or 3 occasions already, yet I'm still not there yet.
My main gripe is, as Iggy said, that things are a bit too small to see. Most of the time I'm just playing by heart, switching and stacking forms, without me "seeing" whats happening. I just have to trust that I changed to sword form, then stacked a hand and then a whip form, all based on my inputs without the "feedback" of seeing my actions in the obscenely hectic screen.
Since the game itself won't teach you everything. I thought I'd share this video that greatly helped me understand the game. There's more in that channel that's pretty helpful too.
EDIT: Iggy's fascinating Crusader King 2 review and Polly's TW101 contemplative post are exactly why I love the cafe. Great work.
http://100daysofmegashock.wordpress.com/
[this message was edited by badoor on Wed 2 Oct 06:48] |
| Pollyanna 3565th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Wonderful headache" , posted Wed 2 Oct 11:04
Holy crap, the new Mario trailer.
I cannot believe how excited I am about this. A Mario game! Who am I!? But look at all this creativity! Look at how much variety is here! I was sad at first that they didn't take a more aggressive thematic approach like in Mario Galaxy, but I take back any and all criticisms. This is an energetic, forward-thinking take on "traditional Mario." Now give us online multiplayer and make this an all-time great!
(okay, okay, maybe I'm jumping the gun a little, but this seems to capitalize on all of the good points of Mario Land 3D and trounce all of its weaknesses, which is all I could ever hope for)
quote:
CK2
Waaaaaah, great writeup. I have a history major friend who loves this game and now I see why. Not for me, but super cool all the same.
quote:
Yuzo Koshiro
have you heard the 7th Dragon 2020 soundtrack? It's not FM synth, but it's great Koshiro! I think I posted this before, but This is a personal favorite. It sounds like it's trying to blow your brains out of your ears.
quote:
Games journalism is getting really really really stupid lately. Really stupid. Really stupid while managing to brand itself as smart and progressive.
I would love to see your voice out there in the mix because you actually have interesting and enlightening things to say.
Thank you for the kind words, though I'm less grateful you brought that article to my attention. It's certainly less harmful than the "I don't know anything about this (culture/issue/whatever), but I'm making sweeping generalizations about it and stating my opinion as fact without designating this as an editorial piece," but it also doesn't contribute anything to...anything. It's just like "public service announcement: KOF features racial stereotypes." It certainly would be nice to have a few more "voices in the mix" as you said.
But as for me writing, my friends always tell me to start a blog/webpage, but I always read that as "stop telling us your stupid opinions and post them online where someone might actually care." I've been reluctant to post some things here, even, because I don't know if my rants are necessarily worth anything or not, especially since it seems like there are a lot of games that only I'm interested in playing. But really, although I appreciate what you said, I don't think I have the energy to maintain a blog, since I write all day for work, then sometimes write recreationally after that. As you can probably tell from my sporadic posting, sometimes it's enough to just write something here. I don't know...maybe if I find some things I feel passionate enough about I'll compile them into something more like an article and if enough pile up, I could post them on a blog.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Ishmael 4733th Post
PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Wonderful Platformer" , posted Thu 3 Oct 00:34
quote:
I've been reluctant to post some things here, even, because I don't know if my rants are necessarily worth anything or not, especially since it seems like there are a lot of games that only I'm interested in playing.
This goes for everyone here: don't second guess yourself when it comes to posting about games. It doesn't matter if the game is going to have universal appeal or not, simply reading a well thought out discussion of a game is interesting. For example, I still remember Iggy's interest in the Siren games even though that's a genre that holds little appeal to me. There have many other occasions when I've been on the fence about a game or simply not had it on my radar but the enthusiasm from someone on this board has made me go out and by the game. MMCafe can be an expensive habit.
quote:
In general I don't think good, honest, interesting writing about games is as rewarded, valued, or as visible as it deserves to be. But I'm happy enough to be able to find it here!
Why do you suppose this is? Does the constant stream of tiny nuggets of news discourage longer forms of writing? Are five short blog-like posts considered better than one long article when it comes to game journalism? Do larger message boards suffer from information overload where a single, long post can be buried under a mountain of shorter postings? Are most people who write about games just plain bad at it?
Speaking of which...
quote:
I remember a long how politically uncorrect KOF XIII was and in some points I agree with that article (Joe's ending, other AOF characters should have ripped clothes, too, as in the original). But this review is the really really watered down version of that article with some "it looks great" compliments. So this cheap shot is not even original.
I also thought there were a number of poorly thought out pieces in KoF XIII but that review was not the way to go about discussing them. I do, however, have no problem with Mai in XIII since she's only there to serve as a counterweight to all the body-waxed boys who make up a majority of the KoF roster.
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| Maou 2549th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Wonderful Platformer" , posted Thu 3 Oct 01:00
quote:
Pollyblogging
In full agreement! Everyone has such intelligent and fun things to say. On that note: quote:
I know that I'm in good company when I post here... I think I've said this before but I really like you guys.
We love you too, man! Meanwhile:
quote:
Does the constant stream of tiny nuggets of news discourage longer forms of writing? Are five short blog-like posts considered better than one long article when it comes to game journalism?
I figure that the internet model has already worsened what was never actual journalism to begin with: from what I can see, the American magazines writing on games in the beginning were merely written by fans with very few skilled or clever writers, and certainly no journalists (repackaging press releases or running staged interviews on the company's whim is not journalism, so sorry). A few exceptions with the inspired lunacy of Game Players and the thoughtfully long pieces by GameFan. But the very staleness of the almost universal vocabulary in such writing today indicates not only how influential the amateurish early stuff was, but how little has changed. Witness how many people STILL use the terms "cakewalk," "feast for the eyes," "to say the least," and other peculiarities first written in the 1990's that at any rate are not good writing. That, and no normal human who wasn't a PR plant has ever said the phrase "franchise" instead of series with a straight face.
Games were never taken seriously enough to be written about intelligently (perhaps the medium mattered--but newspaper or magazine on games were never beyond a trade perspective or incredibly shallow). And now, it's too consumer-oriented in terms of ratings to be saved. All the worse given the need for "clicks" and the shallowness that net-only commerce invites, as the occasionally useful and occasionally sexually normative and awful Penny Arcade Report (article above, and half-assed Dragon's Crown piece) suggests in this piece. On to happier things!
quote:
MARIO
That is such a wonderfully compelling collection of ideas that already had me smiling, but then Koopa had to drive up in his Evil Evil Car at the end, and I knew I was sold.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| karasu99 1230th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(7):Wonderful Platformer" , posted Thu 3 Oct 02:18:
Ohoho, almost too much to reply about here but I shall somehow manage it I suspect.
quote:
Pollyblogging et al
I'm of course in agreement as well. Polly, honestly I look forward to hearing your take on games in general, and you've cost me quite a bit of money at times by suggesting games (often pricey new imports) that I wouldn't have normally considered. While that may sound slightly backhanded, it's completely sincere and heartfelt, since on your advice I've discovered a bunch of games I would not have otherwise. And that of course goes for MANY other folks here.
quote:
Games were never taken seriously enough to be written about intelligently (perhaps the medium mattered--but newspaper or magazine on games were never beyond a trade perspective or incredibly shallow). And now, it's too consumer-oriented in terms of ratings to be saved. All the worse given the need for "clicks" and the shallowness that net-only commerce invites, as the occasionally useful and occasionally sexually normative and awful Penny Arcade Report (article above, and half-assed Dragon's Crown piece) suggests in this piece.
First, we've got to consider that mainstream journalism has evolved into a nasty sort of beast that doesn't appear capable of survival yet flops along somehow anyway. Given that I'm not sure why we should expect anything different (or even as good as that) for games journalism. It had, after all, only just been born when the internet started to take off, so with it seems to go all of the notorious gross bullshit that the internet is prone to: factionalism over trivial matters, name-calling, and over-the-top opinionated behavior.
As has been mentioned a bunch here, sites like that 'K' site (whose name I won't mention lest I somehow contribute to search results for it) seem only concerned about click-bait, not actual responsible journalism or serious reporting. This shouldn't be surprising, since 'K's goal is to make money, not to selflessly report on tiny, artisan Japanese games in the most mild way possible, all while paying for the site out of their own pockets. They're unlikely to change, but why should they? People keep on coming, and even the negative reporting about their laughable reporting drives people to the site!
Of particular annoyance to me are news 'stories' that neither news nor important enough to warrant a story of their own. My recent favorite (no link, since it's not worth anybody's time to read it, or mine to search for the link)? A Siliconera 'story' about how-- surprise surprise! -- the new Mario 3D World game will have a world map! Can you imagine? A world map! There hasn't been one of those since... well, every Mario game since Super Mario 3.
And then of course there's the 'rational discussion' of places like their comments sections, filled with bullying, hatred spewed under the cover of anonymity, and flat-out opinion being stated (and agreed on) as fact. But we've been over all of that many, many times.
quote:
On to happier things!
Yes indeed! Since I've got no game news to report, I can at least let all the One Piece fans here know that a figure of Franky Shogun is being made, to be released in December, which made my whole week!
www.secret-arts.com
[this message was edited by karasu99 on Thu 3 Oct 03:03] |
| badoor 340th Post
PSN: BadoorSNK/PSVITA:BadoorUSA
XBL: BadoorSNK/WiiU:BadoorSNK
Wii: 3DS:4253-3532-0341
Bronze Customer
| "Re(8):Wonderful Platformer" , posted Thu 3 Oct 06:20
quote:
7th Dragon 2020 soundtrack
Yes I have heard it and really enjoy how it's quite different sounding than Koshiro's other recent non-FM soundtracks. It's a more electronic techno soundtrack, similar to his Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune stuff, rather than the horn/string rock opera style in Tokitowa, EO4, and various EO arrange albums, which, while great, can at times sound a bit alike and get hard to distinguish which music comes from which game.
And while Koshiro is known for his FM Synth music, I really like that he chose to compose an NES style soundtrack for Ancient's Xbox Live Indies channel, Protect Me Knight, since as far as I know he never did compose for the NES/Famicom.
But in related news, Motohiro Kawashima, Koshiro's partner composer for the Streets Of Rage games (and the one responsible for my favorite SOR2&3 songs), is composing for "Oh Deer!" and it sounds really really good, especially if SOR3 is your favorite SOR soundtrack. Easily my most anticipated indie game soundtrack release.
http://100daysofmegashock.wordpress.com/
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| Maou 2551th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):paging Gojira and Zeboyd" , posted Sat 5 Oct 04:49:
This seems like as good a time as any to take note that the funding drive has started for Cosmic Star Heroine, a vaguely Phantasy Star-esque new RPG by the people who did those Rain-Slick of Darkness RPG's for Penny Arcade. I figure from the lead's favorite game list that he is a man of class and good taste: Persona 4, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Civilization V, Dark Souls, Pac-Man: Championship Edition DX, Monaco, Lunar: Eternal Blue, Super Metroid, Final Fantasy VI, and Siren 2.
It could be a sign of impending mental collapse, but though Kamitani has tricked me into getting a PS3, my heart still leaps when seeing Mega CD Lunar-esque 16-bit cinema art more than anything coming out today.
Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone ever tried out Pier Solar? Much approval based on the fact that the last Mega Drive game officially came out after the (still quite late) last Dreamcast game, thanks to them.
Edit: unrelated, but remembered more stupid phrases endemic to video game "journalism": "minor gripes [aside]," "bread and butter."
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 5 Oct 12:46] |
| Pollyanna 3566th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Mon 14 Oct 08:31
I think Nier is a mediocre, bordering on bad game, but it has an aggressively unique world and story (along with a fantastic soundtrack), so as long as you go in with the right expectations, it won't disappoint too much. I could say the same thing for DoD 1/2 and it looks like DoD3 is following the standard.
What's amazing to me in DoD3 is that we have a group of female protagonists with active sex lives that don't relate to a male hero. They're beautiful and sexy and cool and powerful (and crazy) and you can't even date them. They aren't accessories...they are the story. I'm not even pointing this out as "whoo, girl power thing," but more of a "wow, when does that ever happen?" thing.
Looking at the trailers, the game looked flat-out awful, though, so I'm glad it got delayed to "improve the quality" (though I wonder what they can do in 2 months). Actually, it looked so bad that I was iffy on importing it, so I'm grateful for a domestic release. Also, I really enjoyed the Japanese dubs for DoD 1 and 2 (2 is still an all-time favorite), so a subtitled version would be extra desirable, especially considering that so many English VAs don't seem to understand what girls actually sound like.
quote:
SQEX
Although they're promoting XII-3, I think the sooner they get that series under the rug, the better. It's the symbol of "we are completely out of touch with everything."
FFXIV is genuinely good and they made Bravely Default happen (even if they didn't make it themselves), so I have vague hope for the future. There's an actual Kingdom Hearts sequel coming, so that's a plus too. I'm not a fan of KH, but I am a detractor of their absurd pseudo sequels. I still keep hoping for a rebalanced Type 0 re-release. That game would've been a platinum-star favorite of mine if the difficulty balance wasn't just...completely wrecked. Seriously, they could just, like...tweak some numbers and turn it into a masterpiece.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| karasu99 1230th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(7):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Tue 15 Oct 02:19
quote:
I think Nier is a mediocre, bordering on bad game, but it has an aggressively unique world and story (along with a fantastic soundtrack), so as long as you go in with the right expectations, it won't disappoint too much.
I couldn't in good conscience recommend Nier until I saw that it costs a relatively reasonable $20US on average. If you're anything like me you won't care for it, but it's got enough to it (especially the music) that you won't mind it that much. To recap, "It's okay, and you probably won't mind it". Now we've REALLY sold you on it, huh?
quote:
SQEX
I used to be a big Square fan but that was years ago. Every now and then they squeeze out something decent, but most of their catalogue these days is either poorly executed or a remake or both. Still, people love them so much that I think it's just that we've moved in different directions from each other for a few years now.
I'm truly interested in XIV, but by the time I get around to playing it everyone else who I know will have moved on, and I appreciated Theatrhythm, but... well, honestly I've never understood the draw of Kingdom Hearts (and in fact I squirm when people I know talk about loving it), and FF XIII-2 made me feel I had wasted money on it (and I think I paid $3 to rent it).
On a more positive note, I finally got around to buying Wonderful 101, which made me remember just how much I love Platinum Games. Everything said here about it I pretty much agree with! It's a real delight, and it's nice to know that not only is there a game company out there who is making games with my taste in mind (not specifically of course) and that Bayonetta wasn't a fluke-- I can enjoy another one of their games THIS much. I was a little put off at first by the irritating nature of it being completely unguided-- the one part I'm thinking of is the early scene where you're running over a collapsing bridge, with no clarity over where to go whatsoever. Every time the bridge collapsed under me I lost something like one half of a pixel's worth of life, had to start over completely from the start, and felt nowhere closer to figuring it out until I just randomly did the right thing. It's not that I enjoy hand-holding in the Zelda tradition, but the combo of the distant view, unchangeable camera angle, and the 'tilt shift' style of camera filter can be really, really tough to love when it's not clear at all the way to do things mostly because of aesthetic decisions that were made about how the game's presented to the player.
There's plenty to enjoy though! I love games where not only can you break everything but there's an actual reason to do so. Plus, there's tons of cool little touches everywhere, and like in a lot of Platinum's other work there's plenty of ways to approach beating bosses. Just like with Bayo, I can really see myself playing through a few more times just to see everything.
www.secret-arts.com
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| Mosquiton 1944th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(8):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Tue 15 Oct 04:33:
quote:
I think Nier is a mediocre, bordering on bad game, but it has an aggressively unique world and story (along with a fantastic soundtrack), so as long as you go in with the right expectations, it won't disappoint too much.
I couldn't in good conscience recommend Nier until I saw that it costs a relatively reasonable $20US on average. If you're anything like me you won't care for it, but it's got enough to it (especially the music) that you won't mind it that much. To recap, "It's okay, and you probably won't mind it". Now we've REALLY sold you on it, huh?
It is well that they go in warned, but with luck any interested parties will listen to badoor and I, who recognize a good bad game when we see one!
EDIT: And in terms of time you don't needn't spend anything like 40 hours... only two dozen hours should be plenty of time to experience the game properly. You may even be able to get away with expending only 1.85 dozen or so.
This is assuming you have the willpower and the good sense to stay away from the game's pointless time sinks. It is worth it to sacrifice such a meager portion of one's life on the altar of obscurity?
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Doesn't matter, do it anyway.
End of Spoiler
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Tue 15 Oct 04:57] |
| Nekros 581th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(8):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Tue 15 Oct 16:43
quote:
I used to be a big Square fan but that was years ago. Every now and then they squeeze out something decent, but most of their catalogue these days is either poorly executed or a remake or both. Still, people love them so much that I think it's just that we've moved in different directions from each other for a few years now.
Oh yes, Square was great. Top-notch technology and inventive titles (Seiken Densetsu, Xenogears, Legend Of The Rudras, Vagrant Story, Einhander, Parasite Eve, Bahamut Lagoon...), GREAT music and focus on various ips to have an appealing catalogue.
I don't know if was the Enix fusion that hurt Squaresoft product, the change in the executive staff or the loss of many talents (Sakaguchi, Uematsu, Takahashi, Mitsuda) but now they aren0t even the ghost of what was Square in the 90s.
To be honest, this applies nearly on every Japanese company that defined videogames in the 90s (Capcom, Konami, Sega, even Nintendo).
I don't think Square today is loved by people so much, the fact (and fun) is that nostalgia feel that the franchises bring with them. I think the last game I truly enjoyed from them was FFX, and X-2 in some extent, but nothing from their PS2 library had ever clicked with me (VP2 doesn't count since is a Enix ip).
The actual games from SQEX have little to nothing in common with the SQSOFT games, and are managed in a terribad manner (countless KH sequels, milking the XIII universe, mobile games, 3rd Birthday and remakes).
PS: I have a question about Bravely Default. In the english trailer the spells names are the same of FF (Blizzara etc.): is the same in the Japanese version? Or is a common thing for Japanese rpgs with elemental spells (not counting FE and SMT)?
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| Baines 389th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(10):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Fri 18 Oct 01:09
quote:
I think there are many categories of bad games, and that a taxonomy needs to be made of them. Simple 2000 series, Vampire Rain, Deadly Premonition, and Ride To Hell all represent different kinds of bad games, some more palatable than others.
I don't think anything in it was as outright broken as Ride to Hell, and obviously nothing was a big budget train wreck, but Simple Series on its own covers a pretty wide range.
Unpolished gems were released alongside utter garbage. Weird concepts were attempted, though often handicapped by shallow and/or flawed gameplay.
It feels like you could run through the catalog and find plenty of titles that would work as proof of concept for bigger budget games, but D3 never really successfully capitalized on that. Oneechanbara had a run, and EDF still exists, but I can't think of anything else that rose out of the Simple line?
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| Baines 390th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(3):Re(10):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Fri 18 Oct 23:39
quote:
Personally I LOVE Simple 2000. For one thing, EDF came out of it, and EDF is one of my favourite things ever, and I love EDF unironically and unreservedly (as opposed to some other Simple 2000 things). So I do agree that SImple 2000 does have quite a spread of quality.
EDF is weird. Not "bad" weird. Rather, it is weird that it was a budget game.
On the surface, it being a budget game seems obvious. Just look at its graphics and animation. And there isn't really a story. There are no cutscenes and video.
But when I look closer, and I think about it...
Yes, EDF would look better with higher quality models, textures, and animations. But what might the gameplay cost be? The games let you run fairly freely through relatively large levels (with the city itself also being destructible) while facing relatively large enemy counts.
Koei has higher quality graphics with good enemy counts, but it pays a cost for that with enemies that fade out in the distance and poor offscreen character handling.
More money would allow time to get better performance from the engine, but with that money would come the expectation of a better looking product. That could eat away any performance gains.
The weapons are mostly variations of each other, but there are a lot of weapons and they have decent variety. This view might be more biased by exposure to "modern" games though, where "variations of each other" tends to describe the weapons of nearly every game, regardless of weapon count.
The lack of a story and video, while a sign of a budget game, is probably more a positive than anything for the game itself. I cannot help but think that being made as a "full price game" would have meant fewer levels in the first two games. As well, it might have meant that individual levels would have story moments injected into them, which could either be acceptable, or pace-breaking.
In the end, EDF feels like it straddles a line. It clearly looks like a budget game, but it has more content and quality than you might expect from a budget game.
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| Spoon 2501th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Sat 19 Oct 02:47
quote:
EDF is weird. Not "bad" weird. Rather, it is weird that it was a budget game.
On the surface, it being a budget game seems obvious. Just look at its graphics and animation. And there isn't really a story. There are no cutscenes and video.
But when I look closer, and I think about it...
Yes, EDF would look better with higher quality models, textures, and animations. But what might the gameplay cost be? The games let you run fairly freely through relatively large levels (with the city itself also being destructible) while facing relatively large enemy counts.
Koei has higher quality graphics with good enemy counts, but it pays a cost for that with enemies that fade out in the distance and poor offscreen character handling.
More money would allow time to get better performance from the engine, but with that money would come the expectation of a better looking product. That could eat away any performance gains.
The weapons are mostly variations of each other, but there are a lot of weapons and they have decent variety. This view might be more biased by exposure to "modern" games though, where "variations of each other" tends to describe the weapons of nearly every game, regardless
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
quote:
EDF
It's also important to take into account that Sandlot is not a typical budget game developer; EDF was made with the technology and expertise that Sandlot had for all their previous giant whatever games, like Robot Alchemic Drive. It'd be kind of like Epic making a budget game using their Unreal Engine; its dedicated budget might be limited, but it is carried on the back of something much greater.
There are definitely clever budget elements to it; the sheer quantity of weapons that are just parameter changes, the fact that there are actually only a few levels, but that you start in different areas of them... but I think they discovered the heart of EDF and grasped it well; playing through at higher difficulties is a joy; the weapons having quirky descriptions and some being outright useless together with a boldly serious delivery of a cheesy thing are all parts of the EDF feeling. It feels like a budget title that is conscious of the fact that it is a budget title, and is lovingly made.
EDF 3 was literally the title that made me buy a 360, and I loved every minute of it.
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| Baines 391th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):on the topic of SQEX" , posted Sun 20 Oct 01:03
quote:
There are definitely clever budget elements to it; the sheer quantity of weapons that are just parameter changes, the fact that there are actually only a few levels, but that you start in different areas of them... but I think they discovered the heart of EDF and grasped it well; playing through at higher difficulties is a joy; the weapons having quirky descriptions and some being outright useless together with a boldly serious delivery of a cheesy thing are all parts of the EDF feeling. It feels like a budget title that is conscious of the fact that it is a budget title, and is lovingly made.
There were so many times that I wished I could carry three weapons. It is hard to justify carrying the more...situational...weapons when you often need to fill your only two weapon slots with survival essentials.
As for the maps, it may have been a budget issue, but the result was genius. The cities are big enough that you can be started in different locations without it feeling the same. (It doesn't hurt that you face different enemies as well.) But since they are only a few large areas, they *feel* like cities. I don't recall ever bouncing off an invisible wall. It felt like I could just keep going. And when you do recognize a landmark from a previous level, it only helps hammer home how big the area really issue. And I think it helps, again probably for both budget and recycling reasons, that there aren't any "special locations" built into the map. Nothing that feels like an event made just for one level, the way that many games might do.
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| karasu99 1232th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(1):Super Mario Something Something" , posted Thu 24 Oct 08:15
So, I'm reservedly excited about Super Mario 3D World (I think I got the name right, it's hard to keep track of multi-sequel games once they dump the numbering system). The latest trailer shows quite a bit of new stuff, like the return of the Hammer Bros suit and a bunch of new things like carrying around Piranha Plants and Goomba head suits. I think the thing that appeals to me is that rather than just have 4 or 5 power ups and ways to play with the environment, we're getting about 10 or 12 if I counted right. On top of that there are SMB2US's 4 distinct playable characters to help complicate play, along with (apparently) tons of elements from previous games as well as a bunch of new stuff.
This is all great news as far as I'm concerned, since I've always wondered why the modern approach to Mario was more about making it flashier than making it bigger. It's as though they've taken their biggest cues from SMB2US and Super Mario World, an excellent outcome for me since those are my two favorites of the franchise (sorry SMB3, enough people love you).
Anyway, I think I'm one of about three people here with a Wii U, so I'm probably just talking to myself!
www.secret-arts.com
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| Ishmael 4752th Post
PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Super Mario Something Something" , posted Wed 30 Oct 01:02
quote:
EDIT: since this is he Random Thread and I don't have any Castlevania related content to contribute, let's post some random news. Here I thought that Nobunaga's Ambition x Pokemon combo was as random as it gets, but this new Sherlock Pikachu thing surely takes the cake. Bonus Halloween points: creepy manface Pikachu is creepy.
So it's Snatcher except the Metal Gear has been replaced by a hardboiled Pikachu? I didn't see that one coming.
Speaking of games that are an odd jumble of ideas...
For the sake of completion I should mention I finally got a chance to try out NieR. It certainly took long enough. The first copy of NieR I managed to scrounge up on eBay was a bit flaky and didn't run properly. It's not a good sign when my PS3 suddenly develops a conscience and refuses to play a game on ethical grounds. It's the same trick my PS3 tried with NG3:RE but I can't blame it on that one.
After finding a copy of NieR that my PS3 found palatable I fired up the game and tried to figure out what it's all about. After playing for a few hours I'm still trying to figure that out. Is it a Zelda game? Is it Animal Crossing? Is it DoDonPachi? NieR is a very strange mix. Even the title character is an odd duck. I'm playing the US version so I have old, burly NieR instead of young, pretty NieR. On paper this guy sounds like he could be interesting. Not only is he not the type to normally star in a JRPG but having him be a single father could add an interesting wrinkle to the story. Playing an unorthodox main character always appeals to me, which explains why I always insist on going through the Elder Scrolls games as a lizard. NieR, however, was not the lizard of my dreams. Instead he's hilariously macho and stilted, as if Conan the Barbarian was being played by Charlton Heston. It's like I'm watching an understudy take over the main part in a play; everyone is reciting the same lines even though the lead seems out of place. I heard that old NieR was added in to appeal to Western audiences but is anything else in this game designed to appeal to a Western audience that otherwise might not be into this genre?
But in spite of -or, perhaps, because of- how scattershot NieR is I find I'm enjoying it on some level. When Conan Heston and his talking sub-menu get away from that terrible fishing game or delivering groceries and find a quest that actually advances the plot I find myself curious to see what they find. If NieR had a larger budget or a smaller focus or something it could have been a lost gem. As it is it's an interesting experiment, which makes it better than a lot more competent but safer games.
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| HAYATO 1150th Post
PSN: Lord-Hayato
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Red Hadouken is not a bug, it's a feature!!" , posted Wed 30 Oct 06:46
For those who, like me, seem to enjoy knowing trivia about old games more than playing newer ones, you'll love this mugenguild thread:
"Akira Nishitani, who directed Final Fight and Street Fighter II at Capcom before forming his own company Arika has recently started a Twitter account. Since then he has been sharing lots of trivia and behind the scenes anecdotes, mostly related to the original Street Fighter II."
There, Nishitani debunks the widely spread theory about the infamous red hadouken being a color palette interlacing bug, and exposes Akiman's ill-fixation with Thunder Thights that almost brought the game behind schedule, amongst other anecdotes that will surprise and amuse any fan of Capcom's halcyon days.
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| Maese 709th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):Red Hadouken is not a bug, it's a featu" , posted Wed 30 Oct 09:43
quote:
For those who, like me, seem to enjoy knowing trivia about old games more than playing newer ones, you'll love this mugenguild thread:
"Akira Nishitani, who directed Final Fight and Street Fighter II at Capcom before forming his own company Arika has recently started a Twitter account. Since then he has been sharing lots of trivia and behind the scenes anecdotes, mostly related to the original Street Fighter II."
There, Nishitani debunks the widely spread theory about the infamous red hadouken being a color palette interlacing bug, and exposes Akiman's ill-fixation with Thunder Thights that almost brought the game behind schedule, amongst other anecdotes that will surprise and amuse any fan of Capcom's halcyon days.
You just made my day, Worthy Brother! Now FINALLY I have something to keep me busy on the office until lunchtime!
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| HAYATO 1151th Post
PSN: Lord-Hayato
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Red Hadouken is not a bug, it's a featu" , posted Wed 30 Oct 16:51
quote:
For those who, like me, seem to enjoy knowing trivia about old games more than playing newer ones, you'll love this mugenguild thread:
"Akira Nishitani, who directed Final Fight and Street Fighter II at Capcom before forming his own company Arika has recently started a Twitter account. Since then he has been sharing lots of trivia and behind the scenes anecdotes, mostly related to the original Street Fighter II."
There, Nishitani debunks the widely spread theory about the infamous red hadouken being a color palette interlacing bug, and exposes Akiman's ill-fixation with Thunder Thights that almost brought the game behind schedule, amongst other anecdotes that will surprise and amuse any fan of Capcom's halcyon days.
You just made my day, Worthy Brother! Now FINALLY I have something to keep me busy on the office until lunchtime!
You're welcome!! In turn, I'll play Lost in the Rain this weekend as a toast to you ( well, in case Castlevania:MoF HD allows me to do so, of course)... 
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| Maese 714th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Basara 4 again" , posted Mon 11 Nov 17:07
Haven't seen this piece of news around so, since there are quite a few cafers who still care about Segoku Basara, I thought of sharing:
Oichi and Nagamasa are confirmed into the roster (maybe this is old news), and one newcomer joins the fray as well: none other than Kyougoku Maria, Nagamasa's sister and an obscure historical character if there ever was one. Not that I'm complaining, but if Capcom wanted a christian proselyte chick on the game I wonder why not just go for the obvious and give us Hosokawa Gracia. That would have been a most sensible choice for Basara 3, given the pre-Sekigahara timeline, by the way. Argh, another lost chance for poor Gracia... I will never forgive you for this, Capcom.
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| karasu99 1245th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Basara 4 again" , posted Fri 15 Nov 03:48:
quote:
Speaking of Sengoku something else, the Musou interpretation of Hisahide Matsunaga was recently revealed, who looks like Yuan Shao mastered the Shungokusatsu. I'm beginning to wonder if their character designer is in serious need of a break.
Good heavens that's a terrible design! It's making me think that the designer not only needs a break, but that he's a drunk or something. (EDIT: I'll be terribly embarrassed if I find out he actually is a drunk!)
quote:
I heard Maria is one of those NPC characters, though.
So does that mean she's being saved for the DLC or for the updated edition that will be on sale six months later? Still, there are more new people in the roster than I thought there would be. All I was expecting in Basara 4 was a compilation of old characters and some new bands on the soundtrack.
The poor quality of Sengoku Musou's latest designs makes Basara look even more fantastic! I haven't played a game in the series since the fighting game, but perhaps I should consider picking 4 up!
quote:
Speaking of old stuff coming back, Discotek is releasing the Fatal Fury OVA's and movie on R1 DVD. If you feel Nona's recent KoF designs are too rounded then these discs will let you go back to a time when Masami Obari built the cast out of nothing but right angles.
Ah, those take me back! The first movie (if I recall) was absolutely packed with boob and genitalia jokes. I have my ancient VHS copies, but who wants to drag out that questionably working VCR and risk destroying them?
www.secret-arts.com
[this message was edited by karasu99 on Fri 15 Nov 03:49] |
| karasu99 1245th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):Basara 4 again" , posted Fri 15 Nov 13:36
quote:
I haven't played a game in the series since the fighting game, but perhaps I should consider picking 4 up!
If you haven't played Basara 3 and Utage, you should definitely give 4 a try. The series turned into an legitimately good brawler with very distinct characters in 3 (and even more in Utage), and 4 looks like it's going to be an expansion to Utage, with a few characters being replaced by (at least) 8 characters new/returning from 2. The only question so far is the amount of stages; 3 was stingy but Utage offered a really nice package.
If there are more stages than in 3, I'll be fine (also, I half-expect some stages from 3/Utage to make a comeback, if necessary via DLC).
I'll definitely be picking it up, so thanks for the info. I recall loving 2, and the character designs are pretty peerless! I even picked up an art book for the series in Japan.
In other news: Skullgirls is for free this weekend. Anyone on Steam who hasn't played it should check it out.
Also, a few location test details for Ultra SFIV. None near me, sadly.
Anyone else getting a PS4? I preordered long ago, before it became clear that there would be almost nothing interesting to play on it at launch, except maybe Knack and Resogun. Polly, you'll be happy to hear I'm finally getting Injustice though!
www.secret-arts.com
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| Pollyanna 3572th Post
PSN: Lilly_Dopamine
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Basara 4 again" , posted Fri 15 Nov 18:38
In addition to the PS4, I should have a Vita TV soon, so I'll give a report on that assuming I ever have time to pick up a controller again.
quote:
Anyone else getting a PS4? I preordered long ago, before it became clear that there would be almost nothing interesting to play on it at launch, except maybe Knack and Resogun.
Ha! I know. I got on the hype train too, but they haven't built tracks that go anywhere yet, it's just going in circles with lots of people on it.
Toys R Us is doing a "buy 3 games or accessories $59 and up and get a $50 coupon" deal that I think I'm going to take advantage of to grab the camera and 2 controllers, because controllers almost never go down in price. If I get the camera, I can get Just Dance and replace the 360 as my "dance exercise machine" in my gaming station. As it stands, I have too many systems and not enough room, and despite being new and exciting, the PS4 is technically the weakest link.
Knack looks like junk to me. I was hoping for interesting use of mechanics...or maybe Crash Bandicoot-esque platform insanity, but it just looks bland. I'm excited about Resogun and Contrast, though. They'll at the very least, occupy me for their length.
quote:
Polly, you'll be happy to hear I'm finally getting Injustice
I cannot believe how little information there is about the PS4 version of this! Is it cross platform? What does it look like? Does it support joysticks? The game is officially out right now and I still don't know. Despite buying all the DLC characters, I can't upgrade and you can't transfer your save file across platforms, so...ugh. If I could find an excuse to get this game again, I would, but they are not making it easy for me.
I am undressed from 80’s style and recreated with modern sexy and beautiful style that amaze you and feel never been experienced world before.
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| Iggy 9683th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Musou Basara" , posted Thu 21 Nov 20:50
Is there anything left to steal in Musou?
They had the setting, with this game they have taken the bland designs, the grinding, and the forge system.
The weapon thing looks interesting though, so hopefully we'll get best of both worlds: an interesting personalization system, and an actual good action game (which is something Musou will never manage to emulate from the looks of it). Plus, everyone from Basara 3 seems to come back, plus 3 guys from Basara 2, so the game also has a healthy amount of good designs (while thinking of Musou's Matsunaga makes me sad).
After 4 Basara games and 4 versions of Orochi 2, it's too late to complain about lack of originality or who stole what anyway, so let's enjoy the stupidity and Shikanosuke's wonderful deer moves.
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"Random thread Orochi ver." , posted Wed 31 Jul 14:02
"Bureto Faiya Sikusu?" , posted Thu 1 Aug 23:15:
"Re(10):Dark Souls 2" , posted Thu 15 Aug 22:13
