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| Professor 3939th Post
  
MMCafe Owner
     
|  "Re(2):Kantai Collection Tier Chart Maker" , posted Mon 25 Nov 19:23  
quote:
OMG, many of my friends and co-workers are VERY MUCH into this kan-colle thing and now... even you, Professor? Anyway, it's funny to note that you didn't consider kan-colle can actually qualify as "gaming", so you just posted on the non-gaming random thread!
I've been peer-pressured so much by the locals here that I *had* to touch it to keep up to date! For what it is, the Flash is pretty well developed, especially in the graphical interface and screen layouts, which usually gets the low-priority treatment for these F2P types of games.
But still, it doesn't feel like a "game" game. You touch it once or a few times a day and that's it (unless you're uber hardcore of course). Placing this in the games thread would feel so wrong.
It's got an NeoGeo Art Of Fighting thing going on in it, your get cloth damage after you lose about half of your HP.
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| karasu99 1267th Post
PSN: robotchris
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Red Carpet Executive Member
  
    
    
    
| "Re(2):Radio" , posted Fri 6 Dec 01:27
quote:
This is barely related to games so I might as well note it here
Nope, nope, foul! This is the non-gaming random thread! That's ten points deducted! From what I have no idea, but Professor, I'm sure you'll make note of this infraction.
quote:
but I have been enjoying the way video games are being discussed on National Public Radio. I suspect that NPR is underestimating how game-savvy a portion of their listeners are but I like that game reporting is approached with the same modulated, tweedy style that NPR uses for all its reports. It's refreshing to hear games discussed using an approach that's different from the typical screaming podcasts and corporate events where everything constantly explodes into confetti made out of Doritos.
Even though I'm an avid NPR listener I still bristle when I hear their reporting, despite often appreciating the coverage. I think it's because even their tech reporting has the flavor of a pre-1970 level of technical awareness where things like cordless telephones and video cassette recorders need to have air quotes applied to them by the anchor.
I suppose I'm being unfair and overly colorful, and you're right, there is a certain quiet comfort characteristic of public radio that's not often applied to the subject matter.
Come to think of it, the low key character of this very Cafe has a lot in common with that, since no one (these days) arrives here red-faced, frothing, and ready to scream about this or that. 
www.secret-arts.com
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| Spoon 2520th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
 
| "Re(2):Movies" , posted Fri 6 Dec 03:51
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Apropos of nothing, I really liked Frozen.
It seems that as soon as Pixar started making less-than-stellar movies, Disney's other cg animation studio (the one that was initially their only internal one*) started making really good movies, often better than Pixar's output and maybe with the same consistency. I was hoping the same would happen with Dreamworks since I really loved How To Train Your Dragon, but so far I don't think any of their recent movies reach the same level. I'm hoping the sequel would be as great.
I think it's partially because Walt Disney Animation Studios still only put out 1 movie per year, the same output as Pixar's. While Dreamworks push 2 even 3 movies a year. Anyway, I guess I'll check out Frozen then. I heard lots of praises elsewhere for it.
* not to be confused with DisneyToon Studios, the ones who did Planes this year and handle all the direct-to-VHS/DVD/Video sequels. I don't think they ever did anything special since A Goofy Movie
Pixar's next few movies, Inside Out and Good Dinosaur, will be excellent A+ movies of the high standard we are more normally accustomed to seeing from Pixar.
I do agree that Pixar's last few movies haven't been as strong as they historically have been. Brave isn't a BAD movie, it's just an A- when we're used to A+'s. MU is good, just not as great as Monsters inc. Cars 2 was made because Disney asked them to generate a crapton of money.
If there's a key difference, I think it's in the story team for Disney. Jennifer Lee was the head writer for Wreck-It-Ralph and Frozen, and her brand of twists on convention, depressed protagonists, and cunning villains is refreshing. Technologically, Disney research has really kicked it up over the past several years, and not just because of Pixar: they've got a significant amount of original research going on.
Pixar's recruited some amazing talent fairly recently, too. To name one, Dice Tsutsumi, who led the coloring for MU, is pretty fantastic.
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| nobinobita 1233th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Radio" , posted Fri 6 Dec 04:27:
quote:
Even though I'm an avid NPR listener I still bristle when I hear their reporting, despite often appreciating the coverage. I think it's because even their tech reporting has the flavor of a pre-1970 level of technical awareness where things like cordless telephones and video cassette recorders need to have air quotes applied to them by the anchor.
I suppose I'm being unfair and overly colorful, and you're right, there is a certain quiet comfort characteristic of public radio that's not often applied to the subject matter.
Come to think of it, the low key character of this very Cafe has a lot in common with that, since no one (these
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I agree with both of you dudes. I feel like their news coverage on games sometimes feels a little stilted, but it is really cool that they're paying attention, and their reporting is way way ahead of the curve.
If I may be honest ... it's their editorials on games that bug me, simply cos their writing staff has very different tastes in games than me.
For instance, they love the heck out of Bioshock:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/10/01/227803856/bioshock-blasts-its-way-into-the-future-of-storytelling
And i HATE those games with a nearly religious fervor >: [
All the articles praising that game read like a press release with emphasis on the same key words "artistic" "art deco" "Ayn Rand" and "moral choices." I wish they'd post something a little less conventional, a little more thoughtful. I'd much rather hear Pollyana's rants on how Senran Kagura's hot blooded tone eclipses its superficial fan service. But instead I get to read dozens of articles on how Braid is a critique of male entitlement (YAWN).
This is more of a criticism against games journalism at large than just NPR though. They're doing a really great job, especially for a mainstream general news source.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 6 Dec 04:30] |
| Maese 740th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(3):Latest Lupin" , posted Tue 25 Mar 11:24
quote:
Takeshi Koike is directing a new Lupin movie that spotlights Jigen. Great find, Jigen Ishmael! And it's being directed by Koike Takeshi, who did the (marvelous) character designs and animation direction for the (occasionally marvelous) Fujiko TV series. Maybe this will have the best of both worlds, with all the grit and raunchiness but without any of the overwrought psychological flashbacks or...Oscar.
He also directed Redline, which I do believe Nobi liked thiiiis  much.
I'm unspeakably excited about this! Koike is indeed one of my favorite artists and directors and Jigen's always been my favorite Lupin III character! This is a perfect match! Thanks for the heads up!
(Maou also totally agree with your assessment that the Fujiko show was "occasionally marvelous" haha)
Woah, didn't see this one coming, but it sure looks interesting. However, don't get too excited, dear Jigen fans. Judging by the flick's title ("Jigen's gravepost"), maybe things are gonna be a bit ugly for our beloved misanthropic gunman!
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| karasu 1360th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Chile Earthquake" , posted Thu 3 Apr 08:42
quote:
I didn't even felt it. It was far to the north, we are on tsunami warning and I keep getting spam mail on how I should evacuate to a safe area (when I live in one).
The Tsunami should reach Japan, btw.
Well, I'm glad you're well. Are you somewhere around Santiago, or even further south than that?
In game related news, anyone who has a PS4 and PS Plus needs to go home right now and download Mercenary Kings. Granted: it's no Metal Slug (it feels a bit more like Contra without the forced scroll and arcade difficulty), but Paul Robertson's art and animations are without peer and give the game a lot of character. I'm wearing a little thin on '8-bit' style retro-ish type stuff but if you've got to play a faux-retro side scroller, this should probably be it. Oh, and it's been out on Steam for a bit for those who aren't NEXTGEN yet.
ALSO: Monument Valley is out, for iPads only for the time being (Android coming soon, apparently). I had a chance to play it at GDC and while I don't think it's fair to compare it with the exquisite Echochrome, it's still mighty nice looking and has an amazing soundtrack. Go buy it because the devs are super nice folks who have crafted a truly beautiful thing.
www.secret-arts.com
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| badoor 367th Post
PSN: BadoorSNK(forPSVITA:BadoorUSA)
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Silver Customer
| "Re(3):Chile Earthquake" , posted Thu 3 Apr 22:10
Glad to hear everyone is well. I hope & pray for the safety of those affected.
quote:
In game related news, anyone who has a PS4 and PS Plus needs to go home right now and download Mercenary Kings. Granted: it's no Metal Slug (it feels a bit more like Contra without the forced scroll and arcade difficulty), but Paul Robertson's art and animations are without peer and give the game a lot of character. I'm wearing a little thin on '8-bit' style retro-ish type stuff but if you've got to play a faux-retro side scroller, this should probably be it. Oh, and it's been out on Steam for a bit for those who aren't NEXTGEN yet.
Hmm...I've been hearing very mixed thoughts about it, even way back when it was demoed at PAX and such. Seems like the open ended-ness of it dilutes the intense action that's such a staple of Metal Slug & Contra. But hey it's PS+ free so I'll give it a go anyway.
quote:
ALSO: Monument Valley is out, for iPads only for the time being (Android coming soon, apparently). I had a chance to play it at GDC and while I don't think it's fair to compare it with the exquisite Echochrome, it's still mighty nice looking and has an amazing soundtrack. Go buy it because the devs are super nice folks who have crafted a truly beautiful thing.
Oh Echochrome? That's really interesting. I was surprised that seemingly, not a lot of games used (or stole, but I feel like that gives a negative connotation to it.) the idea behind the first game. Strangely, it seems more games took from Echochrome 2, the one based on light & shadows (games like Lost In Shadow for Wii, Hudson's last ever game, RIP). Will look into Monument Valley, though it's been ages since I used my iPad.
http://100daysofmegashock.wordpress.com/
http://badoorsnk.wordpress.com/
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| nobinobita 1279th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):GOJIRA" , posted Wed 9 Apr 15:20:
quote:
Whenever Godzilla pops up my maturity level regresses to that of a five year old* and I get unreasonably excited at the sight of a giant monster stomping around town.
I want to like it. But then I remember the previous US Godzilla.
The trailer also showed some poorly acted and potentially boring not-Godzilla scenes. That is a traditional Godzilla formula, but will that work these days?
I can't help but think of the reaction of a couple of kids (both around ten years old) after seeing Pacific Rim. One was an okay Godzilla fan and the other was a big Godzilla fan, but they both agreed that they liked Pacific Rim better than Godzilla movies. Why? Their answer was that Pacific Rim was (in their eyes) all action, while most of any Godzilla film is boring stuff. Neither has shown as much interest in watching a Godzilla film since seeing Pacific Rim.
I think if you asked most 10 year old kids what they'd remember about a Godzilla movie, it's Godzilla stomping around doing Godzilla things, and not metaphors/allegories for hubris and war.
And that's ok!
I grew up loving Godzilla, catching it on TV and VHS. I remember my mom told me that when she was young the original Godzilla was actually considered a horror film (she would have seen it in Taiwan way back in the day). Just the very idea of Godzilla was terrifying. I couldn't really wrap my head around that till many years later I caught the very first Godzilla flick at an AFI theater and man, it blew my mind. It was such a dark film through and through! Even with all the crude special fx i thought it held incredibly well, especially in it's tone. It's a surprisingly understated movie. The scenes with Godzilla aren't very sensationalized, they play out almost like a documentary with this lumbering giant very systematically destroying everything in its path rendering all onlookers impotent helpless bystanders.
I was overwhelmed with emotion trying to imagine what it must have been like to see the film in its first run with the wounds of the atomic bombs still fresh.
I hope the new one's even half as good. At the very least it should have some great special effects. I'm just very afraid of the inevitable heavy hand Hollywood will take with the more "serious" themes. But then again, that's appropriate as Godzilla is a mutant that always reflects the times.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 9 Apr 15:21] |
| Spoon 2583th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):GOJIRA" , posted Wed 9 Apr 16:14
quote:
I grew up loving Godzilla, catching it on TV and VHS. I remember my mom told me that when she was young the original Godzilla was actually considered a horror film (she would have seen it in Taiwan way back in the day). Just the very idea of Godzilla was terrifying. I couldn't really wrap my head around that till many years later I caught the very first Godzilla flick at an AFI theater and man, it blew my mind. It was such a dark film through and through! Even with all the crude special fx i thought it held incredibly well, especially in it's tone. It's a surprisingly understated movie. The scenes with Godzilla aren't very sensationalized, they play out almost like a documentary with this lumbering giant very systematically destroying everything in its path rendering all onlookers impotent helpless bystanders.
I was overwhelmed with emotion trying to imagine what it must have been like to see the film in its first run with the wounds of the atomic bombs still fresh.
I hope the new one's even half as good. At the very least it should have some great special effects. I'm just very afraid of the inevitable heavy hand Hollywood will take with the more "serious" themes. But then again, that's appropriate as Godzilla is a mutant that always reflects the times.
The depiction of Godzilla has certainly run a gamut from its initial version. The original one is probably the darkest in tone, with a huge series of the successive ones being campy kaiju things. Even some of the more serious ones, like the 1985 one (which was the first one I ever saw entirely!), don't seem to manage that quality of getting you to suspend your disbelief and take the whole thing very seriously, which can be blamed on a combination of things.
I (still) haven't watched Cloverfield (even though I've been meaning to!), but I wonder about the found-footage/war-reporter documentary style of depiction as a way of making something that might not engender that feeling of seriousness in the viewer working better. The more visceral quality of that kind of movie somewhat detracts from being able to give a grander view that promotes thoughtfulness, though, which I think was crucial to the development of the original Godzilla movie.
Speaking of found-footage monster movies, did you ever see The Troll Hunter?
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| nobinobita 1281th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):The Truth about... Miyazaki" , posted Tue 15 Apr 06:09:
Turning Point is such a great book! Thanks for the heads up that the followup is out. I had no idea! Purchasing it now :D
quote:
Speaking of random, I recently read the book Starting Point: 1979-1996 by Hayao Miyazaki. In recent years Miyazaki has been viewed in some quarters as something of a grouchy old man who complains about any old thing. But when reading over his old interviews and writings it becomes clear he's been like this since day one. An amazing high point in the book was his eulogy to Osamu Tezuka in which he spent over half the remembrance declaring that all of Tezuka's animation projects were self-indulgent nonsense. Beating things until they are bloody and inert is simply the way Miyazaki interacts with the world. Miyazaki doesn't behave this way because he's psychotic, rather he is fascinated with trying to understand the reasons behind actions and is constantly trying to stave off complacency. While he is not only trying to push Japanese animation and his own studio with that taskmaster attitude most of his critical thinking is directed back at himself. The self-portrait on the cover of him neurotically chain-smoking while hunched over a drawing board is probably a much more accurate representation of Miyazaki than the smiling grandfatherly portrait that shows up in press releases. For a book
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Haha yeah it really cracks me up how Americans tend to see Miyazaki as this magical kind grandfatherly figure (literally):
http://technabob.com/blog/2014/01/17/hayao-miyazaki-figurine/
I guess it's easy to assume that from his movies, but everyone I know who's met him in real life has mentioned that he emits this incredibly intimidating confident aura.
A few years back some friends of mine got to briefly meet Miyazaki behind the scenes when he visited Comic Con. There was a point where he was addressing questions from the press as John Lasseter stood attentively behind him.
Someone asked him "what do you think of Pixar's films?"
Miyazaki responded: "I haven't seen them"
Someone else asked him "what do you think of 3d animation?"
Without a pause, Miyazaki stated "Doing too much 3d makes you forget your own sensibilities as an artist. 3d is like a disease that spreads from the monitor, through your fingers, up your arm and rots your brain"
I'm paraphrasing a lot, but basically he doesn't mince words, he's just awesomely and confidently honest all the time no matter the situation. That's really refreshing!
Bonus Miyazaki Anecdote:
Years ago some friends of mine went to Japan to curate a Mary Blair show for Studio Ghibli. The show went over very well and they were invited to Miyazaki's office (this is super rare) where he thanked them in person and gave them super special Ghibli watches. They only met Miyazaki briefly, but they said that it seemed like Miyazaki was literally running a daycare center out of his office. But not just any old daycare, his idea of raising children was to basically empower them to pursue their interests as they please. For example, there was a toddler in the corner wielding a real hammer, bashing it into real nails in a wooden board.
Bonus Bonus Miyazaki Anecdote:
That same friend curated a Pixar show afterwards and got to meet John Lasseter. When they shook hands, they noticed they both had the super secret Ghibli watches. Lasseter, for a split second was visibly crestfallen that he was no longer the only man in America with the watch.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 15 Apr 06:15] |
| Maou 2636th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):The Truth about... Miyazaki" , posted Tue 15 Apr 06:28
Goods points, Nobi+all. In a way, Miyazaki's stance probably shouldn't be a surprise for careful film watchers even if they haven't been able to read/hear the director speak prior to these translations. While people think of the "warmth" of Totoro and its environment, my theory has always been that there has been a purposeful ambiguity and darkness to his depictions of nature---as a place of wonder but also deserving of awe and fear---and this no doubt is reflective of a director who is no mere friendly, country-loving grandfather.
And to top it off, he does indeed profess to hate most animation, and it's always been comical to see this John Lasseter superfan of his tagging along, despite Miyazaki's not giving two damns for the American CG model. Actually, I was surprised to see Anno Hideaki playing as Horikoshi in the Wind Rises, because I think I remember reading a book years ago in which Miyazaki has harsh words for Evangelion and its ilk. Maybe I remember him being harsher than he was. Though let's not forget what words have been uttered about his son (fairly justly, looking at the wretched Gedo Senki/Tales of Earthsea he directed).
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| Maese 747th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(4):The Truth about... Miyazaki" , posted Tue 15 Apr 10:44:
quote:
Actually, I was surprised to see Anno Hideaki playing as Horikoshi in the Wind Rises, because I think I remember reading a book years ago in which Miyazaki has harsh words for Evangelion and its ilk. Maybe I remember him being harsher than he was. Though let's not forget what words have been uttered about his son (fairly justly, looking at the wretched Gedo Senki/Tales of Earthsea he directed).
I was under the same impression about Miyazaki and Anno's relationship, but actually it turns out that Anno (along with a bunch of Gainax's founding fathers) is some sort of pupil of Miyazaki. He has worked under him many times, even after establishing Gainax, if I recall correctly. Both studios used to be on the same neighborhood, so I can see Anno and his guys dropping by his senpai's den whenever Miyazaki would need an extra hand to meet a tight deadline.
Bonus anecdote: on an special making off TV show about Wind Rises, Miyazaki and Takahata wondered about who could convincingly voice the main character. They needed somebody "pure and passionate, someone who knew how it feels to live chasing impossible dreams" (I'm paraphrasing a lot, but you get the idea). An it seems that, in Miyazaki's mind, Anno would be the most fitting guy for that description, hence the wild idea of having him voicing young Hirokoshi Jiro. So maybe Miyazaki doesn't quite like Evangelion and all the otaku cult it has spawned, but I'd say he respects the phenomenon and the mastermind behind it for what they are. At the end of the day Evangelion is an awesome animation piece, and a person with a sharp eye for animation such as Miyazaki would surely aknowledge that.
Bonus bonus anecdote: When asked about his feelings about working as a seiyuu, Anno simply replied that "since it was Miyazaki-san himself who asked, I just couldn't refuse". There was a strong senpai-kouhai nuance on his words. So yeah, Miyazaki is a grumpy, moody old man, but he's kind of a fatherly figure for the industry nonetheless.
Edit/disclaimer: please forgive the over indulgent use of weeaboo jargon and japanese honorifics on this post.
[this message was edited by Maese on Tue 15 Apr 15:39] |
| karasu 1374th Post
PSN: robotchris
XBL: robotchris
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(1):Tomorrow's essay reading" , posted Sun 27 Apr 09:55
quote:
The english fan translation of the famous boxing manga Ashita no Joe wrapped up recently, and one of the head translators (who translates all kinds of other stuff and usually has all kinds of interesting things to say about translating and manga) wrote a huge long sleep-deprivation-fuelled essay about Ashita no Joe:
http://hoxtranslations.blogspot.com/2014/04/many-thoughts-on-good-manga-10.html#more
I'm curious if anybody here has any comments on this from a literary, art, history, or art history perspective of criticism. I feel like I can make up lots of reasonable interpretations for things happening in it and how it looks, but I'd like to know about it from a perspective informed of the era rather than just what seems reasonable to me now.
Wow, thanks for linking to that! I'm a huge fan of 60's and 70's manga myself (particularly Yokoyama Mitsuteru's robot works like Tetsujin-28 and Babel II) and I've even read a bit of Ashita no Joe over the years. Just from a cursory glance, this guy really seems to have a great perspective. Let me read it, digest it, and I'm sure I'll have something to say by tomorrow!
www.secret-arts.com
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| Spoon 2623th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):INTENSE LUPIN" , posted Thu 26 Jun 08:16
quote:
Lupin has no continuity or backstory to speak of but for some reason I've always thought of Fujiko as being in her early 20s, Lupin and Goemon as being in their mid 20s and Jigen in his early 30s. Even though that would make Jigen only a few years older than Lupin I just assumed that Jigen was one of those Lee Marvin types who went from childhood straight into grizzled old man with nothing in between.
I've always thought of Lupin, Fujiko, and Goemon as being fairly close in age, with Lupin maybe being a little older than either. Lupin being in his 30s wouldn't bother me, and he could totally be a quirky womanizing 40-something (see: whatever age Ben Stiller is), nor would Fujiko being significantly younger than either. I think about how Audrey Hepburn looked at 32, or Ingrid Bergman in her early 30s, and Fujiko being in that mould wouldn't bother me at all. Jigen however has to be significantly older than any of those 3, and Zenigata older still.
When I think of Jigen, I think of James Coburn more than I think of Lee Marvin.
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| Maou 2664th Post
PSN: zonepharaoh
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(10):INTENSE LUPIN" , posted Thu 26 Jun 11:41:
quote:
Lupin has no continuity or backstory to speak of but for some reason I've always thought of Fujiko as being in her early 20s, Lupin and Goemon as being in their mid 20s and Jigen in his early 30s.
Lupin's actor looks a bit too...Japanese, really, given that he's a quarter or half French, though I guess what he really needs to look like is more monkey-like, whatever the actor. Funny thing is, Kurita Kan'ichi, his current voice actor, actually looks very Lupanic. Maybe they should've used him!
I always placed these guys as Real-Live Grown Ups in their 30's at the least. In one of the less-inspired throw-away arcs of Monkey Punch's original comic from the 1970's, Lupin and Zenigata both went to the same college--either the University of Tokyo or an obvious allusion to it, how dull--and had some sort of rivalry going there before they embarked on their various careers. Not that it matters in any way for any of the Lupin continuities, but it was an odd one, especially since Zenigata needs to feel older and grizzled.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Thu 26 Jun 13:10] |
| Professor 4094th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Differences between Jp and Western art lines" , posted Mon 28 Jul 17:46:
Here's an interesting series of tweets that were recently made by a Japanese illustrator Yusuke Nakamura. I don't know his works, but he does a pretty good summarization of differences between the Japanese and Western perspective in drawing since the old years. Nobi and some others may be interesting in reading this.
With lots of things getting redrawn in Western and Japanese versions nowadays, the differences on how characters get portrayed are pretty interesting. Japan tends to draw them by their "silhouettes" which makes them look cool, whereas the west tends to portray them by their "surface" which gives them more reality. This has been the same since the history of painting.
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493570193621135361
Here's an example of what I mean by "silhouette" and "surface". This is a bit of an extreme example but when you draw a ball, the west looks at the ball and draws it like this (left) while Japan draws it like this (right). They're looking at the same exact object (but they see it differently), which is extremely interesting. (Example photo)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493578005793353728
When you take this further, you can clearly see the differences between the West and Japan in portrait paintings. (Example photos)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493580135132446720
And this difference also becomes pretty clear when things get simplified into the level of comic books. For example with American Comics, even an example like this which uses fairly simple lines, will have shadows, because the artist takes depth(3D perspective) into account. (Example photos)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493584884670013440
On the other hand, while Japanese manga nowadays are changing into various styles, its fundamentals are still based on simple lines like this example. Their heights have been deformed and they also don't have any shadows drawn in. They're very simple. (Example photo)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493587784439848961
So in a way it sort of turns into a paradox. When you portray things as "lines" like how Japan does, the art becomes a flat "surface". But if you portray things as a "surface" like the west does, the art gets drawn with comparitively a lot more "lines" in order to achieve depth. Pretty confusing, no? (Example photos)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493594750490931203
On a side note, the anime director Toyoo Ashida has a coloring style where he doesn't blur anything and draws stuff very solidly, and it even had an impact on Dragonball's Akira Toriyama. When you look at these images of Goku in his early years and later, you can clearly see the difference. (Example photos)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493602672910405633
On the other hand, Mr.Toyoo was the director for Toriyama's "Dr.Slump" series, and Toriyama's style had an influence on him. Senbei(from Dr.Slump) and Shibaraku(from Mashin Hero Wataru) looked almost identical even to points like how they suddenly turned handsom in some scenes. It's an ideal flux of influences between artists. (Example photos)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493605855506362368
As exaplained, the differences on how Japanese and Westerners view and portray things are completely different. It makes things extremely difficult when creating movies of each other's works. It's hard for the creators, and it's also hard for the viewers.
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493608215133704193
So for example, it's pretty convincing when you make a movie of something from your own culture like the X-men in this example...
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493610099416375296
...but on the other hand, the Holywood version of Dragonball looked completely off to the Japanese. One of the main reasons was probably the hair as mentioned before. The Japanese portryal of hair (the hairstyle and its quality) is something that the West probably couldn't understand, and therefore couldn't bring to life.
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493611861565124609
When you think about that, one of the points with the Godzilla film currently running in theaters is how much the creators studied the Japanese original and tried to bring back its qualities. (Example photo)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493615782194978816
Its silhouette is a bit stocky compared to the Japanese Godzilla, but when you get the light source/shadow on this, it turned out to be really cool. It's pretty worthwhile to see it from different angles during the movie.
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493616989059833857
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 28 Jul 17:54] |
| nobinobita 1334th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(1):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Mon 28 Jul 18:43:
quote:
Here's an interesting series of tweets that were recently made by a Japanese illustrator Yusuke Nakamura. I don't know his works, but he does a pretty good summarization of differences between the Japanese and Western perspective in drawing since the old years. Nobi and some others may be interesting in reading this.
With lots of things getting redrawn in Western and Japanese versions nowadays, the differences on how characters get portrayed are pretty interesting. Japan tends to draw them by their "silhouettes" which makes them look cool, whereas the west tends to portray them by their "surface" which gives them more reality. This has been the same since the history of painting.
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493570193621135361
Here's an example of what I mean by "silhouette" and "surface". This is a bit of an extreme example but when you draw a ball, the west looks at the ball and draws it like this (left) while Japan draws it like this (right). They're looking at the same exact object (but they see it differently), which is extremely interesting. (Example photo)
https://twitter.com/kazekissa/status/493578005793353728
When you take this further, you can clearly see the differences between the West and Japan in portrait paintings. (Exam
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Wow, thanks for sharing and translating!
Yusuke Nakamura is a very accomplished commercial illustrator who is known for his multiple album covers for Asian Kung Fu Generation as well as the cover for the novel Tatami Galaxy. He also designed the characters for the (EXCELLENT) anime adaptation which had music AKFG. Nakamura is also a musician himself and hosts an internet radio show.
I'm pretty sure I've seen his illustrations on packaging for sake and candy too.
I think everything he's said is really spot on. The core difference between "Eastern" and "Western" esthetics is a focus on line vs a focus on rendering. Hayao Miyazaki also has a lot of great things to say about this difference. I'll dig up my copy of Starting Point and find the quotes tomorrow (i should be sleeping right now!).
Of course there are tons and tons and TONS of exceptions to those rules (for instance Berserk, Vagabond, Bastard!! etc are some of the most well rendered comics ever made). But then again, all those comics I mentioned still have a huge focus on very clear, solid, volumentric contours and outlines, the rendering is icing on the cake.
The bits about Toyoo Ashida were really interesting! I was just looking up Mashin Hero Wataru cos I was making a list of anime that I'd happily show my nieces and nephews. That was at the top of the list (its such a great show!) I had no idea the same man who directed that also directed Dr Slump (which makes sense) as well as Fist of the North Star and Vampire Hunter D!
It's really cool to see how Toriyama and Toyoo Ashida influenced each other. If you watch Wataru it's super clear this is a post Dr Slump and Dragon Ball show. But looking at Wataru's hair and the rendering style, it's reasonable to conclude that it
influenced the spikey haired direction Dragon Ball went in in the future.
Man, this is one of my favorite subjects in the world, Eastern vs Western esthetics. Similarities and differences. Most times when I see people on the internet broach the subject, the results are extremely shallow ("you see Asian art is feminine! And Western art is masculine!") It's nice to see what a really experienced, respected artist has to say on the subject.
I'll post MIyzaki's musings tomorrow. They're great.
Until then, here's a cool post about Yusuke Nakamura giving art advice to youngins:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-03-14/tatami-galaxy-yusuke-nakamura-gives-aspiring-illustrator-advice-on-twitter
His advice on proportions in design is really insightful. It's the kind of thing they'd teach you in a good graphic design class, but it's something people tend to forget about in illustration.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Mon 28 Jul 18:48] |
| Spoon 2656th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Tue 29 Jul 00:44
quote:
I have already heard similar comparisons and I think it is a solid argument, although as Iggy moaned mentioned, this contrast is not as easily applicable to comic artists from countries with a Roman-Catholic heritage (France, French-speaking Belgium, Italy, Spain).
This is a really interesting thought!
Part of me specifically thinks about the nations you mentioned, but part of me also thinks about the huge advances in rendering that occurred specifically in Roman Catholic nations a few centuries ago, and art movements that had highly realistic rendering as a defining feature, like Baroque paintings. Is it that in descending from a tradition of iconography that the focus on silhouette is preserved even when eras come where huge efforts are being put into the realism of the work? I've heard that the entire Protestant Reformation saw dramatic changes in the treatment/perspectives of art, and if true that change would certainly descend to the non-Catholic immigrants that fled to North America, but it's not something that I am knowledgeable about. Do elaborate!
|
| nobinobita 1335th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Tue 29 Jul 07:24:
quote:
As your average anti-american French grumpy old man, I am always annoyed when 海外 ends up being "the US".
Not everyone is Hergé, but still, hey, sorry to exist.
Haha you're right to be angry. I wish more people in America knew about Herge too. That CGI film was an abomination, but it also is a very good example of America's obsession with 'realistic' rendering and lack of appreciation for beautiful, concise line work.
I think in general, when people from Asia talk about "eastern" vs "western" aesthetics they are very much talking about Japanese influenced stuff vs USA (Hollywood, Marvel Comics and AAA games) with the exclusion of European art. I think it's cos they find a lot to relate to in European art (you can find lots of European comics at the airport in Taiwan, I grew up reading Tin Tin cos my dad liked it), but find a lot of American art baffling (my Dad is always asking me why American cartoons aren't good looking like Tom and Jerry anymore).
There's certainly a fine tradition of line work in Europe. If you follow the Cours De Dessin by Charles Bargue (perhaps the most important drawing manual to classical style European art) it starts off with very precise, rendering heavy reproductions of statues and ends with quick totally linear drawings from live models. The line work in it is GORGEOUS and certainly influenced generations of artists world wide, particularly in Japan if we are to talk about animation. For instance, Tatsuyuki Tanaka's work is basically Charles Bargue in motion:
http://nanaone.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Tanaka-Tatsuyuki-Genius-Party.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4d4derwFh1qzqnxxo1_500.gif
But I'm starting to ramble. Going back to the original premise that "Eastern" art is line and stylization focused, and "Western" art is more literal and rendering focused, I think there's a lot of truth to it. It's a gross simplification, but it's mostly accurate.
Japanese painting is descended from Chinese painting which has always been focused on stylization and capturing the spirit of something rather than the literal look of it. Chinese painters used forced perspective on their landscapes because they wanted to give an idealized aerial view of things to make the viewer feel as if they were treading through the landscape themselves (not unlike earlier videogames).
Chinese and Japanese art do have a tradition of realism in their statues though. Unfortunately, very few classical Chinese statues remain (god damn the cultural revolution!) but if you go to Kyoto, good lord, the statues there are incredible. They may look heavily stylized in photographs (and they are), but in person they feel exceedingly "real." The portrait sculpts of actual monks are particularly realistic.
This statue of Kuya at Rokuharumitsuji is maybe my favorite sculpture of all time:
http://i.imgur.com/eVFCOiv.jpg
Now, where does this tradition of realism come from? It's actually from the Greeks. Buddhist art was originally all abstract and symbolic. It wasn't until the Kushan empire put Buddhist and Hellenistic cultures under one rule that Buddhist artists started portraying their religious icons via realistic statuary. That's why if you look at the earliest statues of Buddha, he's really jacked! It's the greek influence.
Similarly in Europe, the expressionists and impressionist movements that eschewed classical realism for stylization were largely inspired by contact with China and Japan (not just for their stylized brush work, but also their focus on secular life over classical and religious topics). Again, gross over simplification. But it's also true that many innovative Western artists who broke from tradition were avowed Sino/Japanophiles including Van Gough and Rodin. Gustav Klimt was largely inspired by Jan Toorop, an artist of Indonesian and Dutch descent who combined the aesthetics of local Indonesian folk art with European painting. If you're not familiar with his work, it's fucking gorgeous and could easily be confused for Yoshitaka Amano. Jan Toorop is like the missing link that bridges pretty much all modern European, American and Asian artists that I like, but now I'm really rambling.
Where am I going with this?
Anyway, I think it's fair to say that "Eastern" (Chinese descended cultures) historically focus on stylization and linework, while "Western" (Greek/Roman descent cultures) historically focus on realism and rendering. BUT, there are so many fascinating exceptions to the rule here and the cross pollination between cultures has been going on for centuries, it's nothing specific to modern times.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 29 Jul 07:28] |
| nobinobita 1336th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Tue 29 Jul 07:46:
OK, here's Hayao Miyazaki on the subject of Japanese vs American aesthetics:
...When I talk with American animators, I sense that they tend to interpret objects in a very different way. They tend to want to look at the volume and three dimensionality of objects first. But we Japanese tend to think of the lines used to represent the objects. Their view is more like that of computers, which don't really use lines to identify objects. The computer inteprets the object as planes and points. In other words, in Japan and other East Asian countries, it seems that we have some sort of special sense that things should be represented by lines.
Our brains seem to be organized this way. In Europe, artists have a very long history of drawing rays of light to represent the texture of matter; of course, people in Europe have produced fabulous line drawings too, but overall, it seems they have emphasized trying to express volume or quantity. For example, when depicting a human face, if we try to apply shadows, we first draw some lines, and based on this then assign colors or tones, and that's enough. My American friends however invariably go out of their way to apply a gradation of tone. They say, for example, that there are no lines in the shadows.
Rather than this simply being the result of our animation industries having different histories, there seems to be something more profound at work here, and I believe what i have described is probably not unique to Japan, but applies to Korea and China, too. Perhaps we're more sensitive to line, or to the edge it represents. There may even be an ethnic aspect to this.
Recently some wonderful reproductions have been made of picture scrolls executed from Japan's Heian period and the Kamakura period. And when you look at these, you can tell that Japanese people really believed they could depict the human world in its entirety in this format. They thought they could express nearly anything with drawings and words, whether it was related to politics, economics, art, religion, the supernatural world or even erotica.
Illustrated narrative scrolls disappear at a certain point in Japanese art history, but during times of peace they become ukiyoe, or illustrations of the floating world. Ukiyoe had little in the way of a narrative element, but since we're dealing with hypothesis here, I'm going to take the liberty of postulating that this was because during the Edo period Japan was at peace. When I tell my interviewers from abroad that we see the same phenomenon in the turbulent history of modern Japan, as we did in the ferment of the late Heian period or the Kamakura periods, and that in this period narrative picture scrolls were resurrected as manga, they all go home happy. [laughter]
-Hayao Miyzakai
From a speech given on August 6, 1994, for the Association of Scenario Writers
Republished in Starting Point 1979-1996
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Tue 29 Jul 07:47] |
| Spoon 2657th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Tue 29 Jul 10:52
quote:
As your average anti-american French grumpy old man, I am always annoyed when 海外 ends up being "the US".
Not everyone is Hergé, but still, hey, sorry to exist.
Haha you're right to be angry. I wish more people in America knew about Herge too. That CGI film was an abomination, but it also is a very good example of America's obsession with 'realistic' rendering and lack of appreciation for beautiful, concise line work.
I thought that the film did something incredibly ballsy in having the cgi Tintin juxtaposed with a Herge drawing of him right off the bat. It was quite a stark contrast!
It's kind of strange to me that many comics that are American that are considered iconic, like Peanuts, Calvin and Hobbes, Doonesbury, or (eventually) even Penny Arcade are very line-focused. The readership numbers for comic books are abysmal, but they keep going and they are behind the much more commercially significant movies. In fact, in terms of pure readership, I wonder what would he considered the currently most culturally relevant comics/comic strips?
I can't ever bring myself to hate the field of computer graphics, which the US has been the leader of for a long time. The thrust for photorealism in special effects I think is deeply rooted in Hollywood, and the influence of that is likely profound: consider how influential star wars has been to a generation or more, and how a key part of its power came from how real everything seemed, together with its use of a universal and timeless story. Hollywood being the most culturally influential institution of the US could well be a self-propogating culture.
Actually, here's a thought: what do you think of the Disney movies, before, during, and after the golden age? The lines and animation of the Old Men still reads beautifully, and some projects were just way out there. Bambi's head artist was a Chinese man who drove the backgrounds that were somewhere between asian and Impressionist, and I remember not find that odd at all when I saw it as a child, but being blown away by it years later. I remember the devil in Fantasia being rendered stunningly, and the portrayal of volume and substance with it was remarkable.
When i think about kojima being enamored with 3d and naming Metal Gear Solid because the characters were "solid" for the first time and the possibilities it afforded... I wonder how he would think about the march for photorealism, and if he's even able to in a way divorced from being constantly around Shinkawa's art.
I'm rambling because I'm stuck in an airport for another 2 hours.
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| nobinobita 1343th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(9):Differences between Jp and American art" , posted Wed 6 Aug 07:54:
quote:
I get the impression that hentai comics are more acceptable in France than they are in the US
Why do you have this impression?
Acceptable, I don't know, but widely available with official translations, probably, and from the mid-90s at least.
Maybe because some erotics artists such as Manara (linking to Wikipedia which was the only safe for work page) are famous and respected not in spite of what they do, but because of what they do. It's like... Is Tom of Finland recognized as an artist or as a guy who drew leather gay daddies?
Plus, the hypocritical Japanese censorship of genitals make it look less... mature and serious than actual eroticism/pornography, maybe...
I don't know. We just aren't a puritanical civilization. That probably helps.
I saw a lot more erotic/porno comics in my brief time in France and Italy than I ever saw in the US (including a lot of japanese ero manga--including dōjinshi being sold at magazine stands!) Porno cartoons are definitely popular in the US internet ("hentai" is a top porn search term in some states), but we're currently going through a very puritanical phase here so people aren't open about it (and i guess they never really have been).
Question for all:
What do you see as the similarities and differences between North American and French art? (in the realm of BD/comics/animation/games etc)
Also, does one have to be French or Dutch in order to create Bandes dessinées? Could you categorize BD as "European" comics in general? Much like how Super Hero comics are considered American style comics even if the artists come from all over the world now.
"Western" is such a broad term and I do agree that it's unfair to lump so many different schools of art under the same umbrella since there are vast palpable differences in tastes. I would love to hear your thoughts!
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Wed 6 Aug 07:56] |
| Loona 774th Post
PSN: IkariLoona
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(10):Differences between Jp and American ar" , posted Wed 6 Aug 17:44
quote:
Question for all:
What do you see as the similarities and differences between North American and French art? (in the realm of BD/comics/animation/games etc)
I don't think I have the artistic background to give a more informed response, but from Portugal there's enough exposure to both to have some notion. I'm assuming by "French" you mean the general franco-belgian range and slightly beyond?
As for similarities, when they're so inclined, I get the feeling both the american and european stuff is more likely to go for a realistic drawing style (proportions, details) where character faces are more distinct, with actual anatomy (skeletal structure, etc...) "under the hood" of each character, while even in Japanese stuff that takes itself seriously, the attention to realistic detail is more likely to go into technology and backgrounds than to actual characters - masking effect at work, I guess, as discussed in Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics.
For the more cartoony stuff, the european stuff tends to lean to a "rounder" style, I guess - off the top of my head I think of the likes of Asterix, Gaston Lagaffe and Shtroumpfs (Smurfs), and there's a round, bouncy feel to them to which I can't immediately think of an American counterpart, but maybe I'm just forgetting some good examples, on account of the superhero stuff and others leaning toward realistic proportions drowning them out in visibility - stuff like newspaper strips like Zits, Calvin & Hobbes, Dilbert and others aren't exactly angular, but they have a different feel to it aesthetically.
Then there's color - maybe its exposure myopia, but maybe when European stuff goes for more realistic drawing styles, its use of color is more desaturated, I guess, with the colors feeling a bit more washed out? Then again, that may have to do with depicted settings, and my incomplete notions of color theory.
quote:
Also, does one have to be French or Dutch in order to create Bandes dessinées? Could you categorize BD as "European" comics in general? Much like how Super Hero comics are considered American style comics even if the artists come from all over the world now.
In Portugal we use the term "banda desenhada" and the acronym BD to refer to the comics medium as a whole, regardless of geographical origin (although "manga"'s more likely to be used for Japanese stuff, but there may be a marketing factor to it).
So, from my perspective, the term has nothing specifically european to it. There's a yearly portuguese comics event, Festival de BD da Amadora, and it covers American and European stuff pretty evenly.
Off the top of my head, a couple of examples of Portuguese comics artists with full published books: Luís Louro's stuff feels more typically European to me somehow, and the more recent Dog Mendonça & Pizzaboy series feels a bit more American to me, despite taking place in Lisbon - it actually got picked up by Dark Horse comics for an English version to boot.
A more informed and trained eye might be more able to point out what makes each style lean in each of the directions, I guess...
Some European stuff seems a more more "out there" aesthetically at times, like Moebius's stuff, but maybe I'd get that feel from superhero comics if it weren't so easy to be exposed to them from an early age?
...!!
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| chazumaru 1280th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(5):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Tue 12 Aug 07:27
quote:
Is it that in descending from a tradition of iconography that the focus on silhouette is preserved even when eras come where huge efforts are being put into the realism of the work? I've heard that the entire Protestant Reformation saw dramatic changes in the treatment/perspectives of art, and if true that change would certainly descend to the non-Catholic immigrants that fled to North America, but it's not something that I am knowledgeable about. Do elaborate!
I'll be honest, this kind of analysis is part of my job, and I am too tired/lazy to get into details about this kind of things outside of the workplace. But roughly, you have the right idea. Religion has held a heavy influence on art, mostly because religion has been the main producer and financing source of art for centuries, especially in Europe. Therefore, visual arts (i.e. any form of illustration or sculpting) in Europe have always been intricately related to the progress and conflicts of different religions; the different "schools" can be directly correlated to the religious history of their countries/regions/towns.
Typically, because they had more funds, more means and a better network to produce art, countries with a strong roman-catholic heritage have developed a very different sensibility to iconography and illustration than other nations. Even the historically unique Flemish movement is entirely related to the struggle between the occupying (and very Catholic) Spanish kingdom and local bourgeoisie.
Consider that the entire BD "franco-belge" initially took on because of Hergé's incredible success in the 30s. His career took off because the local Catholic Church wanted him to promote the correct political ideas among young readers through local right-wing papers (communism is bad, we should be proud of the work of missionaries in Belgian colonies, etc.). This initial political aspiration only got subverted because Hergé and many other European artists of that era were fascinated by the US culture from the early 30s to the late 50s (especially as displayed in Hollywood movies) and were more interested to depict that aspect of entertainment. When WW2 broke, the (at the time) extremely popular early US comics such as Mickey Mouse disappeared from France and Belgium (as well as Italy). This allowed young local artists, with a US sensitivity but a better tuned affinity to their audience, to fill the missing comics pages and create a strong local market.
In terms of BD, a strong divide with the catholic influence happened post-war, the establishing of new local schools of BD heavily influenced by Mad (such as the entire Goscinny/Pilote generation) and the foundation of the Heavy Metal core (Druillet/Dionnet/Moebius) which led another counter-culture movement (itself rejecting Pilote), firmly entranched into social and international (yet not communist) ideals. Those guys are also largely responsible for the spread of Asian popular culture in France (before the commercial boom and resulting 'ban' of Dragon Ball and other manga-based cartoons on TV), whether you talk about the local push for Akira's publishing or the release of HK/Japanese live action movies in the Nineties.
Interestingly, Italy got divided in two schools, which could be (very schematically) summed up as a more left-minded (socialist) school of artists closely related to French-Belgian post-war artist circles such as Pratt and his assistant Manara (who quickly made most of their business in France) or the Giussani sisters (and their innovative "anti-hero" Diabolik), while the US-influenced right-wing press financed local versions of Mickey Mouse, feeding an entire new school of local Disney artists which once again found an opening to the line of business when American comics got banned by Mussolini. Those Italian artists could then export their works to other European countries thanks to the cheap printing costs of Italian presses and the ubiquity of Disney characters. I am not sure how well this is known in the US but the majority of European Disney comics post-60s are drawn by Italians and have their own well-known characters/universes (in the same way that Carl Barks created his own Donaldville universe).
During and after WW2, political ideals essentially took the place of religion in the shaping of mass produced art but the idea is not so different. The Iberica's catholic dictatures of the 20th century are their own can of worms.
Meanwhile, to understand the ascent of comics that progressively led to the tradition of US comics launched under Hearst's print empire, you must go back to Töpffer and Gustave Doré. You can study the political activism behind the work of the Swiss Töpffer (pretty much the grandfather of comics/BD/manga), who only got recognized in countries with a strong Protestant (or assimilated) community (this includes France and Germany, as they both included enough protestants to serve as a counter-culture to catholic dominance). His work had a strong influence on early US artists as well as the French Gustave Doré (pretty much the grandfather of comics), who grew up under a post-revolutionary and religiously skeptical French régime.
Doré was extremely popular internationally for his work, and got his more serious work such as religious paintings bluntly rejected in France (with the local critics still under influence of the Catholic art heritage) while his excessively modern paintings received strong support and commercial success from non-catholic Christian audiences (such as the United Kingdom). And there is that whole thing about Superman as a cultural symbol for the jewish exodus.
Etc. Etc.
And like with every topic, the deeper you get into it, the less you can accept strict, grand lines/generalizations, because you keep finding contradictions and exceptions. The more you know, the more you know that you don't know, the less you realize what you really know.
quote:
Question for all:
What do you see as the similarities and differences between North American and French art? (in the realm of BD/comics/animation/games etc)
Also, does one have to be French or Dutch in order to create Bandes dessinées? Could you categorize BD as "European" comics in general? Much like how Super Hero comics are considered American style comics even if the artists come from all over the world now.
BD is just the local word in French for that medium. Anything is BD. Manga is a type of BD, the same way Japanese people describe BD as a foreign form of manga. It's the same with comics: "comics" here specifically identifies Marvel/DC type of comics; less conventional stuff such as Maus or Chris Ware might not even be recognized as comics by some consumers, simply because they do not fit the stereotype of comics. Italian BD is usually identified as Fumetti among French-speaking readers who care to identify them, and guess how like-minded Italians describe "BD" there... The use of local vernacular in a hobbyist's vocabulary is just an intellectually lazy yet practically clever way to describe different art schools/markets.
In short: we don't care that much.
Regarding your other question, I think the artistic borders have really blurred between the different styles and publishing formats, especially since the 80s. It's clear though that current European authors have been more influenced by manga than (US) comics. We might see comeback of North-American influence among a newer generation, with the growing popularity of webcomics, which are largely an anglo-saxon affair at the moment.
Même Narumi est épatée !
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| nobinobita 1344th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(6):Differences between Jp and Western art" , posted Wed 13 Aug 02:46
quote:
Is it that in descending from a tradition of iconography that the focus on silhouette is preserved even when eras come where huge efforts are being put into the realism of the work? I've heard that the entire Protestant Reformation saw dramatic changes in the treatment/perspectives of art, and if true that change would certainly descend to the non-Catholic immigrants that fled to North America, but it's not something that I am knowledgeable about. Do elaborate!
I'll be honest, this kind of analysis is part of my job, and I am too tired/lazy to get into details about this kind of things outside of the workplace. But roughly, you have the right idea. Religion has held a heavy influence on art, mostly because religion has been the main producer and financing source of art for centuries, especially in Europe. Therefore, visual arts (i.e. any form of illustration or sculpting) in Europe have always been intricately related to the progress and conflicts of different religions; the different "schools" can be directly correlated to the religious history of their countries/regions/towns.
Typically, because they had more funds, more means and a better network to produce art, countries with a strong roman-catholic heritage have developed a very different sensibility to iconography and illustration than other nations. Even the historically unique Flemish movement is entirely related to the struggle between the occupying (and very Catholic) Spanish kingdom and loc
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Just wanted to say, thank you so much for this detailed post! There isn't much written in English on BD from the local perspective, so this was very enlightening for me. Thanks so much!
www.art-eater.com
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| Professor 4117th Post
MMCafe Owner
| "Re(4):blazing heat Summer Comiket C86" , posted Mon 1 Sep 05:09:
quote:
Any idea how much the most successful circles make, or how much money is spent total?
Holy, I realized I didn't reply to this! Sorry about that.
Truth be told, people can only make predictions on how much the major circles make because they don't release figures. Generally speaking they should make at least 3 grand and higher. For instance, the cost of printing 1000 copies of a 24-page fullcolor doujinshi in offset is around $1700 to $1800. Selling at the standard price of $5, the circle will make roughly around $3 per copy. It really depends on the circle's popularity because some of them will be selling anywhere from 2-4 times that volume. And of course if it's just black and white, the profit margin will be even larger. I've written up a rough cost chart below.
Smaller circles will usually go with black and white offset printing. Some small circles actually go with offset printing even for fullcolor like the big names, although needless to say it certainly cuts into their cost. It's not rare to find smaller circles selling at a higher price than major circles for that reason.
Many circles have pride and go with offset printing, but some will go with on-demand printing instead, which sacrifices print quality in place of cost because it more or less uses the same printing technology as a household printer rather than the traditional printing plate method.
A circle that can sell around 300 copies is mid-rank; most small circles can't even sell 20 and they have troubles breaking even considering the convention's registration costs (around $100) and whatnot.
Anyways, here's a quick rundown. Figures are very rough.
I'd be interested to know how much the running costs would be in the States.
All figures are for B5 size.
====================
Fullcolor, 24p
Offset
$1200/ 100 copies
$1300/ 300 copies
$1800/ 1000 copies
On-demand
$300/ 50 copies
$500/ 100 copies
$1200/ 300 copies
====================
Black & white, 24p (Cover is full color)
Offset
$350/ 50 copies
$400/ 100 copies
$500/ 300 copies
$950/ 1000 copies
On-demand
$150/ 50 copies
$200/ 100 copies
$450/ 300 copies
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 1 Sep 18:46] |
| chazumaru 1343th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "BENGUS" , posted Tue 21 Oct 08:13
They should remake Magnum, P.I. with Charlize Theron as Magnum, P.I..
She bangs the same kind of girls, she has the same car, the same background/buddies (they can replace Vietnam with Iraq), same Honolulu-based stories, same main theme, remixed by Justice. They can eventually have a woman replace Higgins, someone like Betty White, but they could just as well have John Cleese. Would he refuse that wad of cash for shooting a season in Hawaii? I don't think so. Why am I not a T.V. executive? I'd make money.
Même Narumi est épatée !
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"Re(1):Pokemon baking mold" , posted Tue 18 Mar 02:40
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