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| kofoguz 1086th Post
  
Red Carpet Premium Member
    
    
    
|  "Re(3):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Sun 8 Sep 20:49  
quote:
Kickstarter is a way for fans to feel socially conected to the creators of the products they consume, it's here to stay.
To tell you the truth,I hated the idea of kickstarter. It didn't clicked to me as a trustworthy concept. And I always approach to the "Skull Girls" doubtful, the project seemed to me a studio game in disguise of a indie to make it a viral commercial success and excuse for having less characters and sell the restone by one make more profit, (killer instinct making this openly) though I love the game. So kickstarter project of DLC (another abused concept for cash milking) character Squigly, well I thought the target money is overblown amount. So I hated the Kickstarter even more until, well when I see Project Phoenix.
Project Phoenix seems like result of the talented creators got together for an art project without the company sheninagans. So I finally saw its potential and forgive the kickstarter concept, knowing there are and will people try to abuse it.
Ok, since I told you guys what I feel about the concept here is the question. Lets say Project Phoenix is succesful, but how about the rights and license for the future? Who will have the rights to the characters and the IP? If the team has a disagreement and departures happens, how would this affect sequels, new titles or projects involves the characters?
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| Spoon 2486th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
   
| "Re(4):Kickstarting games = a trend now." , posted Thu 12 Sep 00:46
quote:
Kickstarter is a way for fans to feel socially conected to the creators of the products they consume, it's here to stay.
To tell you the truth,I hated the idea of kickstarter. It didn't clicked to me as a trustworthy concept. And I always approach to the "Skull Girls" doubtful, the project seemed to me a studio game in disguise of a indie to make it a viral commercial success and excuse for having less characters and sell the restone by one make more profit, (killer instinct making this openly) though I love the game. So kickstarter project of DLC (another abused concept for cash milking) character Squigly, well I thought the target money is overblown amount. So I hated the Kickstarter even more until, well when I see Project Phoenix.
Project Phoenix seems like result of the talented creators got together for an art project without the company sheninagans. So I finally saw its potential and forgive the kickstarter concept, knowing there are and will people try to abuse it.
Ok, since I told you guys what I feel about the concept here is the question. Lets say Project Phoenix is succesful, but how about the rights and license for the future? Who will have the rights to the characters and the IP? If the team has a disagreement and departures happens, how would this affect sequels, new titles or projects involves the characters?
The PP team probably has its own legalities figured out that they haven't posted onto Kickstarter because it's legal jargon. The people working on it are too experienced to enter something like that without something like that nailed down.
On the other hand, the proposition for how the funding of the project works is probably the most outrageously risky thing. If any of you haven't read it, it says this:
"When you think of usual developing fees, USD100,000 is definitely not enough to create a video game. However, as each of our members are professionals in their own field, they do not require a salary right now, and so, are donating their time and effort into developing Project Phoenix. Their reward will come in the fans’ evaluation of the game and a %-based royalty of all sales. This is the reason why our project will never fail due to lack of finance after we reach our goal. It is possible to release our game with just our developers' work, but there is one cost that we just cannot ignore in order to make the highest quality video game. Our pledge, USD100,000 will be used for one of the best 3D modeling out there. This figure is the most minimum cost required."
In short: nobody gets paid until well after the game ships, and while they might get bags of money, they might also get pocket change. That there is a statement saying that they are banking on their own personal savings to live during the course of the project (who pays for meeting spaces? they are totally reliant on word-of-mouth and internet places being willing to pick up their story because they effectively don't have a marketing budget!) means that they are seriously taking on this project on faith.
It's definitely not a model that many other starving indies can take, and they even say up front that the money used from the Kickstarter will just be used to enhance the project; it'd get done even without it. So if anything, it's the anti-Kickstarter.
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| karasu99 1214th Post
PSN: robotchris
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Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(1):A bag of sour grapes" , posted Fri 13 Sep 05:33
quote:
Hooray for Inafune getting to make his fake Rockman game, I guess, but I think moodily on what might've been if this trend had started slightly earlier. I might be co-owner of a still-extant Cinq and funding the further adventures of Kyle Hyde, or maybe reviving what's left of dear Game Arts. Or SNK for that matter.
I'm glad I'm not the only one under-wowed by Mighty No. 9. For me, I never doubted that the money would keep rolling in to the project, since the average reaction seems to be OMGWTF MEGAMAN, let me empty my bank account to back a 2d, sidescrolling action game. It's not that I'm hating on it, I just don't see what people find so unique or fund worthy about this compared to the hundreds of Megaman-inspired games of various levels of homage/ripoff that are being made every day, except OMG INAFUNE.
Anyway, on to less negative pastures! Musing on Maou's idea above, I think the Cafe would have been a better and definitely more conscientious IP-holder of SNK's properties than a company who is rapidly replacing actual videogame releases with Pachislot.
www.secret-arts.com
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| Loona 724th Post
PSN: IkariLoona
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Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Thu 19 Sep 13:42
I've seen enough edits to recognize the bases used for most of those characters - although the crossover ones don't look as derivative, those actually non-sprite artwork of those guys and they managed to look distinctive enough in the NGPC style to not evoke anyone else. then again, in their available sprites, their legs have almost the exact same outline, which is likely not original to them either... in fact, I think it's the same used for the Parker sprite.
There is, however, a strange absence of artwork of the "original" ones in any style other than "NGPC" sprite, which is odd - no portraits, no sketches, which feels a bit suspicious.
I was detailing the similarities for every character in some detail, but keeping too many tabs in this browser proved to be a liability, so I lost that post, so at this point a shorter version will have to do:
- Tenchi: Sakura (general movement, limbs), Ryu (reference for height adjustments, as the character was made to be taller than Sakura via longer torso - which is why the stance was changed), Chun-Li (one of the specials)
- Naomi: Leona (hair), Terry (hat, general outfit), Saishyu (stance)
- Quinn: Yashiro-ish build, odd stance resembles one of Rugal's NGPC frames
- Parker: Guile (with far more conservative head and pants)
- June: Athena
- Keiko: Athena (? - hard to tell due to limited frames; granted, the pet looks original enough)
- Hector: Hibiki, only taller, plus hat and clearer outline of the legs; oddly, despite the supposed inspiration on SS and LB, I don't think either of them has mechanics quite like his...
- Subject 11 - Orochi Iori...
Most sprites can be checked here for comparison, but right now it's kinda late here for me to scan them all for the legs base that seems to have been used at least thrice: http://spritedatabase.net/system/ngp
Like I said, the game has interesting concepts, but if they're asking for money, it might as well be to hire a proper sprite artist and musician instead of porting the current version to 3 or 4 different OSs - games like MotM were great despite their graphical and sound limitation, not because of them. There's only so much that's acceptable nowadays, even from a smaller group.
Using their own style instead of editing smoone else's would have been a lot more acceptable, at least if asking for money.
"Beat the machine that works in your head!" - Guano Apes "Open Your Eyes"
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| Baines 382th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(2):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Thu 19 Sep 15:09:
quote:
Most sprites can be checked here for comparison, but right now it's kinda late here for me to scan them all for the legs base that seems to have been used at least thrice
That's what I meant. When I looked, I couldn't find exact matches. While the general look, poses, and moves are taken from characters from various games, the actual sprite work isn't a 1:1 swipe.
NGPC sprites generally had shorter, thicker legs than the Pocket Rumble characters sport. The exception is when NGPC characters were doing moves, where their legs would get longer.
For example, the pose for the still image of June makes me think of Athena. But June's image is only similar to Athena's sprite in the general pose and general outfit. June's legs are thinner, her feet are in a different position, her hands are different, etc.
Naomi's hair looks like Leona's, but I couldn't find an exact match among the NGPC sprites that I looked at. The legs are wrong for NGPC sprites, and the curves in the lower half of the legs is a detail more likely taken from KOF XIII than a NGPC game.
[this message was edited by Baines on Thu 19 Sep 15:11] |
| Baines 382th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(4):Pocket Rumble = infringement?" , posted Fri 20 Sep 06:56
quote:
Well, "frankenspriting" is a fairly common practice for some Mugen projects, and the same principle seems to be at work here.
Where? I didn't find any parts that were 1:1 matches.
The more I looked, the more I felt that Pocket Rumble was new sprite art based on the look and feel of NGPC sprite art.
Maybe it is heavy editing of details, maybe it is more like SF2HDR, maybe it is just looking at NGPC sprites as references... It is easy to find similar images, but the pixels just didn't line up for even piecemeal direct parts copying when I compared images.
Honestly, it would probably be easier to just *make* new sprite art based on the NGPC sprites than to do the degree of piecemeal editing required for some of these images.
That being said, the characters are obviously based on existing pre-existing properties, and the moves performed by these characters are as well. This is clearly a(n intentionally) derivative work. But I don't think it is the outright blatant Mugen/BOR-style clone that it at first appears to be. (Though to be fair, I do have to allow for the possibility that I just didn't find the exact right sprites to look at.)
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so I'd prefer to have it for a more recent machine.
