| Spoon 3371th Post
  
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
     
     
|  "Re(3):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 11:08  
quote:
Sobering thought: it's conceivable that no one under age 25 has ever even considered Rockman a good series or seen a good game released in real-time.
Well, let's look at it this way:
what was the last new Mega Man title that was not one of the throwback titles (e.g. MM9) that had platforming gameplay (i.e. so this excludes MMBN and Star Force)?
The answer are the ZX games, released 10 years ago (2006, 2007). So if a person was in grade school when those games were new... say, 9 years old in 2006 as a lower bound, then they would be 19-20 years old today.
But let's discount those, too, and just go to the last title that had Mega Man or Mega Man X as the central playable character. The last new one starring him with platforming gameplay was Mega Man 10, released in 2010. Again, taking the gradeschool age mark, a person who somehow found an 8-bit character cool then would be 15-16 years old now.
That Mega Man has no appeal to kids is actually a pretty reasonable problem: he hasn't been front and center in anything in a long time! Forget finding him cool or not, I'm sure most kids simply have zero knowledge of him, let alone connection to him. That Capcom are trying to rebuild the brand with kids using something so uninspiring is a wholly separate but at least equally regrettable problem.
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| nobinobita 1604th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 12:18:
quote:
Sobering thought: it's conceivable that no one under age 25 has ever even considered Rockman a good series or seen a good game released in real-time.
Well, let's look at it this way:
what was the last new Mega Man title that was not one of the throwback titles (e.g. MM9) that had platforming gameplay (i.e. so this excludes MMBN and Star Force)?
The answer are the ZX games, released 10 years ago (2006, 2007). So if a person was in grade school when those games were new... say, 9 years old in 2006 as a lower bound, then they would be 19-20 years old today.
But let's discount those, too, and just go to the last title that had Mega Man or Mega Man X as the central playable character. The last new one starring him with platforming gameplay was Mega Man 10, released in 2010. Again, taking the gradeschool age mark, a person who somehow found an 8-bit character cool then would be 15-16 years old now.
That Mega Man has no appeal to kids is actually a pretty reasonable problem: he hasn't been front and center in anything in a long time! Forget finding him cool or not, I'm sure most kids simply have zero knowledge of him, let alone connection to him. That Capcom are trying to rebuild the brand with kids using something so uninspiring is a wholly separate but at least equally regrettable problem.
Mega Man has had Capcom frozen with analysis paralysis for years. There are so many different iterations of the franchise. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of anything else that's so iconic that's also been reinvented so many times. However, there are a few core things about Mega Man that always make him stand out.
1) His appealing simple design. Blue color scheme. Blue helmet. Blaster arm. It's so damn elegant. Anyone can "get" this design right away.
2) His sadness. This is absolutely crucial. This is the extra element that's always made Mega Man (and his predecessor Atom) stand out.
The creators of this new Cartoon said:
"Mega Man's 2017 incarnation will feature what fans love best about the character — which is apparently "his unflinching wide-eyed optimism and an over-the-top sense of humor." You can see how that's translated into his new character design below."
Source:
http://www.polygon.com/2016/5/26/11785728/mega-man-animated-series-2017-details
Not only is this totally not reflected in their redesign in the first place, it's also totally off base. Here's what the actual creator of Mega Man (by which I mean Akira Kitamura of course, not Inafune) has to say:
"You know, just the image of Mega Man standing there: there’s a sadness to it. Even his sprite has a certain gravity and seriousness to it. How can I put this… for me, when I see a young child playing alone, in a park or in the middle of the street, playing by himself there… there’s something so sad about that sight, it can almost bring me to tears. And there’s something similarly lonely about Mega Man.
For example, in the backstory I wrote, Mega Man alone is equipped with the functionality to turn himself off. That very fact imbues him with a sadness. The other robot masters were made for some kind of specific job or work, so there’s no need for them to have an “off switch” they can control. However, a robot helper like Mega Man can make his own judgments, and therefore can decide whether he’s needed or not. That bit of backstory also reflects the serious feeling in the writing that you mentioned you liked. The sadness of being a robot is having this inorganic existence."
source:
http://shmuplations.com/megaman/
This pathos has been a cornerstone of the series. The X series was incredibly depressing. The Zero series took it further and had several games that take place after the extinction of the human race. Even the silly US TV show still had a bit of that pathos, with Mega Man's relationship with his evil brother, Proto Man.
All this stems back from the original game, where a stoic faced cute little robot was tasked to kill all the other robots in the world most similar to him (by your hand).
Note: All the above thoughts came from my brother Andy. I just summed them up here after talking to him.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 27 May 12:19] |
| nobinobita 1605th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 12:34:
quote:
That Mega Man has no appeal to kids is actually a pretty reasonable problem: he hasn't been front and center in anything in a long time! Forget finding him cool or not, I'm sure most kids simply have zero knowledge of him, let alone connection to him. That Capcom are trying to rebuild the brand with kids using something so uninspiring is a wholly separate but at least equally regrettable problem.
Mega Man has 2 huge advantages over most franchises
1) His basic design is so iconic and appealing. I know I keep repeating this point but it's important. He's like Sonic the Hedgehog or Hello Kitty. Anyone can take just a single glance and "get" the character and even do a reasonable drawing of them if asked (as in clear enough that if you were playing pictionary, other people would know what you are drawing). You put Mega Man in front of a kid, most of them will like him.
2) There are endless amounts of Youtube videos about him. Mega Man is beloved by the world. If you look for "Mega Man" on youtube you will get "About 10 million results"
For comparison, here are the numbers for other searches:
- Angry Birds: 5.8m
- Street Fighter: 3.1m
- Mickey Mouse: 3.69m
- PewDiePie: 3m
- Justin Bieber: 21.2m
- Ariana Grande: 8.5m
- Bugs Bunny: 0.3m
This is hugely important, because kids don't watch TV anymore. I've mentioned this before. A few years ago I mentioned the Looney Tunes to my nieces and nephews (then ages 5. 6. 7. 9) and they had NO IDEA who Bugs Bunny was. Warner Bros had done such a great job of keeping Looney Tunes content off of Youtube that they erased the franchise from the world of children.
Mega Man though. Hardcore fans can't stop making videos about him. You can watch long plays. Speedruns. Amazing level design analysis. Reviews. You can watch all the old cartoons already made. It's endless.
Youtube is the babysitter of the children of the world now. And Mega Man has done very well on there. Double the content of Angry Birds. Half the content of Bieber. That's pretty amazing! And unlike Bieber, Mega Man's success is not driven by incredibly expensive ad campaigns, those millions of videos were created out of genuine love. Capcom doesn't have to spend a cent keeping Mega Man alive, the fans will do it for them out of genuine love.
This is why Mega Man is very viable to reintroduce to a new generation. I think Capcom realises that there's still a ton of potential to the franchise, they are just terrified of failing. So they've sat on their laurels for years. And now they're on track to produce the worst possible tv cartoon for it haha.
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Fri 27 May 12:48] |
| Spoon 3374th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 15:51:
quote:
Well, let's look at it this way:
what was the last new Mega Man title that was not one of the throwback titles (e.g. MM9) that had platforming gameplay (i.e. so this excludes MMBN and Star Force)?
Smash Bros.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I think that the biggest playable videogame appearance he's had in awhile comes in the form of being a DLC character in another franchise owned and made by another company.
Even with the enormous amount of info about the characters present in unlockables in Smash Bros., I have to wonder if the association of Mega Man and Fox and Falco (until the recent release of Starfox 0, anyway) to a lot of players was "Smash Bros" as opposed to their own game, kind of like the way a lot of KOF characters are surely perceived for those who never really grew up around the games that the characters originally came from.
quote:
melancholy of mega man
I did read that article previously! It was quite the eye-opener to read how much thought went into every little thing about Mega Man.
I think superficially what more people get out of Mega Man is not a sense of "sadness" but a sense of "struggle". As sad as Mega Man is in his conception, that never really bears out in most of his conflicts directly with Dr. Wily. Dr. Wily is so silly! If you never got to read the manual about how robot masters are robots designed to perform non-combat tasks, you wouldn't really get that element of how sad it is that they've been turned from their human-helping duties into enemies. When you're tackling Wily's castle, the music and visuals sell a great sense of overwhelming and intimidating challenge, but again, not one of sadness.
You can find tonnes of things written about how MMX so wonderfully sets up how strong Zero and Vile are in the opening, and how powerful that feeling of defeating Vile and taking up the mantle of the hero that Zero leaves behind for you is. Zero sacrificing himself for X is "sadness", being frustrated at how unbeatable Vile is feels like "struggle". But it's a different kind of sadness from the one which Mega Man has: Zero blowing himself up isn't the existential sadness of a robot made in the image of a boy who needs to turn himself off when his tasks are done.
Elsewhere in the series, when the element of sadness/tragedy is spelled out of the audience a little too directly, you get infamous moments like MMX4 (which is surely one of the highlight games of the series otherwise!) and it's "what am I fighting for"... not that the English voiceovers did it any favours.
quote:
youtube presence
Mega Man's youtube presence is essentially curated by old geeks like us. It has a tremendous amount of youtube content, but I have to wonder if the audience for that content and for the speedruns of these old games is not new kids but other old geeks like us. The Games Done Quick and speedrunning communities will certainly do speedruns of games new and old, but it's definitely the case that the favourite games for these are mostly old ones. While it's great that there's this enormous body of content for newcomers, I don't know just how many new people are coming to it.
What's the bigger shame is that not only is Mega Man a pretty great character for all the reasons you've mentioned, but that Mega Man exists in a universe which has a full and rich aesthetic and character roster.
Maybe Capcom will see how powerfully attached fanbases are to the characters in world-beater games like League of Legends and Overwatch, and how much people enjoy playing co-operatively and competitively, and make a multiplayer action game set in the Mega Man universe. Taking a cue from Monster Hunter, you have the option of grand co-operative boss battles, and taking a cue from those PvP games, you have a competitive mode which serves as the enduring core of the gameplay experience. Jumping and dashing and wall-jumping can all be big parts of the gameplay experience, and being able to play as different robot masters with unique abilities but also customizations (cosmetic or otherwise) allows them to cover the gamut of Mega Man characters while also leveraging the fact that the characters are robots. You have tons of NPC characters that have already been designed. You can set the game in the generally brighter/cheerier/rounder MM world but also bring in elements of the badlands where the rougher survivalists of the MMX/MMZ world can be brought in. You could make players purchase costume pieces for the Servbot/Mettaru/Roll assistant in your menus.
----------------
Crazy further tangent:
If you look at recent top-rated FPS games Overwatch and Doom, one of the things they have both done superbly is bring jumping and climbing back into FPS! During the past.... decade? of military-oriented FPS games, jumping was continuously reduced in stature: it killed your shooting accuracy, things were put in against rapid repeated jumping, etc. because in a realistically set military game seeing bunny hopping be a dominant technique looks dumb. In Overwatch, we've got characters that can scrabble up walls, that suffer no accuracy penalties whatsoever from jumping, characters with grappling hooks and flight, and all kinds of short buildings and windows for you to get onto and around. Titanfall had delightful parkour mechanics and encouraged you to platform all the time. Doom sees you automatically mantle jumps that you didn't quite make, and very much makes jumping a vital part of exploration/navigation and combat.
In particular because of Overwatch, we're going to see a whole new generation of video game players grow up happy to be jumping around all the time in a 3D shooting game set in a bright and fun sci-fi universe. If that doesn't set the stage for a new Mega Man game, I don't know what will.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Fri 27 May 17:04] |
| chazumaru 1705th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(7):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 17:29:
quote:
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I think that the biggest playable videogame appearance he's had in awhile comes in the form of being a DLC character in another franchise owned and made by another company.
Even with the enormous amount of info about the characters present in unlockables in Smash Bros., I have to wonder if the association of Mega Man and Fox and Falco (until the recent release of Starfox 0, anyway) to a lot of players was "Smash Bros" as opposed to their own game, kind of like the way a lot of KOF characters are surely perceived for those who never really grew up around the games that the characters originally came from.
Now, now, to set the record straight, he was not a DLC character. He was in the original game, and actually the very first guest announced.
Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus (and Earthbound to a certain extent) have shown that Smash Bros can help some IPs get better recognition for their own new or re-releases thanks to people discovering them in Smash. So I assume it was a good thing for Rockman Mega Man Aki Light, a normal, upbeat, schoolboy robot.
I am just worried that they can never find the type of game mechanics that would appeal to current kids. It's too bad because the core idea of a little robot that can capture his enemies' unique powers is a very strong one.
Même Narumi est épatée !
[this message was edited by chazumaru on Fri 27 May 17:33] |
| Spoon 3374th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(8):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 19:14
quote:
Mega Man wasn't DLC!
Oops!
Hmm, I wonder why it was that I thought that. Maybe something in my head shortcircuited and swapped Ryu with Mega Man...
quote:
I am just worried that they can never find the type of game mechanics that would appeal to current kids. It's too bad because the core idea of a little robot that can capture his enemies' unique powers is a very strong one.
It's somewhat counter to some of the most popular online games of the moment, that's for sure.
There's one instance of this as a central gimmick among the most popular multiplayer games of the moment, and that's with the character Rubick in DOTA/DOTA2. He has an ability which takes the most recently used ability of a target player and lets Rubick use it. In the hero games like LoL, DOTA, HotS, Overwatch... all of these games are about thoroughly defined characters.
The survival games like DayZ are about wholly undefined characters all governed by a universal set of game and crafting rules.
Five Nights At Freddie's is about jump scares.
I think the survival games prove that people are willing to play games where everybody starts out as the same weak blank-slate character, and over the course of the game your unique adventures result in you acquiring equipment that you cherish and that distinguishes you from others. In the post-apocalyptic MMZ setting, devouring robots for abilities or equipment as a wrinkle on that could certainly be successful.
On the flip side Hearthstone (hah!) and Clash Royale are terribly popular games, and Clash Royale has the combination of deck customization and crafting/grinding upgrades. I think that Mega Man Battle Network's novel gameplay might be too demanding for a small touchscreen, but the broader notion of building a robot (i.e. deck) with abilities taken from other robots (i.e. themed NPC decks or enemy players) can translate well. In tournaments for Magic The Gathering, it's standard for a player to bring in a deck as well as a small set of sideboard cards that he can swap into his deck based on his opponent... which isn't so different from Mega Man entering a boss lair and switching abilities until he finds one which works, or even finding that none of his available abilities work!
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| Loona 1076th Post
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| "Re(5):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 21:42
quote:
Mega Man has had Capcom frozen with analysis paralysis for years. There are so many different iterations of the franchise. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of anything else that's so iconic that's also been reinvented so many times.
Batman comes to mind - he's been all things to all people by now, considering all the mediums and interpretations he's been through. For a more recent franchise, TMNT also comes to mind - and curiously, they've crossed over recently and it worked pretty well (night scenes fit both settings, Shredder isn't too far off from the style of physical-themed Batman villains even his more interesting ones are themed around mental issues, and Killer Croc makes for a decent precedent for unusual being living in the sewers).
Back to Mega Man, while I didn't read most of the Archie comics version (I only read for the Sonic crossover), apparently it was pretty good, and it was fun how the last issue acknowledged and paid homage to the entire history of the franchise, the highs and the lows, and made it work - it seems like it would have been a good template for any kind of animated adaptation - it was really just limited by the current reach of the comics medium, which is a sad state of affairs by itself. Also, the final page by itself was amazing, more so if you know it was referencing the Freakazoid finale.
Then again, the writer apparently was already a really big fan of the series before taking on the job and sought it out after he was already working with Archie on the Sonic comics - I'm not sure if a studio working on adaptations for someone else is as likely to find people in its staff who know and care enough about a property to make it work based on what it is instead on what they'd rather be doing were they not bound to the IP of others...
...!!
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| neo0r0chiaku
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Regular Customer
| "Re(6):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 22:34:
quote:
Well, let's look at it this way:
what was the last new Mega Man title that was not one of the throwback titles (e.g. MM9) that had platforming gameplay (i.e. so this excludes MMBN and Star Force)?
Super Smash Bros.
What can Capcom really do with Megaman now for its long time fans? I don't think anything. Inafune left and that was a clear statement. Akira Kitamura is not with Capcom as well, is he? They have not given us long time fans anything lately other than the Megaman vs Street Fighter game.
Putting Megaman in SSB wii U was a clear example that Capcom wants to introduce the blue bomber to kids. With that in mind, they want to start again with new fans in mind. As much as us longtime fans love him, Capcom can not captilize with us in mind. The anime is another example of introducing Megaman to new people.
quote:
2) His sadness. This is absolutely crucial. This is the extra element that's always made Mega Man (and his predecessor Atom) stand out.
"You know, just the image of Mega Man standing there: there’s a sadness to it. Even his sprite has a certain gravity and seriousness to it. How can I put this… for me, when I see a young child playing alone, in a park or in the middle of the street, playing by himself there… there’s something so sad about that sight, it can almost bring me to tears. And there’s something similarly lonely about Mega Man.
For example, in the backstory I wrote, Mega Man alone is equipped with the functionality to turn himself off. That very fact imbues him with a sadness. The other robot masters were made for some kind of specific job or work, so there’s no need for them to have an “off switch” they can control. However, a robot helper like Mega Man can make his own judgments, and therefore can decide whether he’s needed or not. That bit of backstory also reflects the serious feeling in the writing that you mentioned you liked. The sadness of being a robot is having this inorganic existence."
I think superficially what more people get out of Mega Man is not a sense of "sadness" but a sense of "struggle". As sad as Mega Man is in his conception, that never really bears out in most of his conflicts directly with Dr. Wily. Dr. Wily is so silly! If you never got to read the manual about how robot masters are robots designed to perform non-combat tasks, you wouldn't really get that element of how sad it is that they've been turned from their human-helping duties into enemies. When you're tackling Wily's castle, the music and visuals sell a great sense of overwhelming and intimidating challenge, but again, not one of sadness.
If this Theory was true, that would be even more depressing view on Megaman!
quote:
Spoons Crazy further tangent on FPS
and
There's one instance of this as a central gimmick among the most popular multiplayer games of the moment, and that's with the character Rubick in DOTA/DOTA2. He has an ability which takes the most recently used ability of a target player and lets Rubick use it. In the hero games like LoL, DOTA, HotS, Overwatch... all of these games are about thoroughly defined characters.
Well, we have not seen a FPS or a DOTA/LOL style Megaman game yet.
quote:
The answer are the ZX games, released 10 years ago (2006, 2007). So if a person was in grade school when those games were new... say, 9 years old in 2006 as a lower bound, then they would be 19-20 years old today.
Embarrassing to say, I am still playing ZX Advent. I have not completed the game yet. I try to find some time once in a couple of months to continue playing. Its a difficult game and I need some good hours to work on it. Its actually a better feeling for me since this is the last true Megaman game in my point of view. As a result, I want this feeling to last as long as I can. I will keep taking my time before I complete the game.
Ever since the ZX and ZX Advent games were released, I also listen to the soundtrack from time and time. Its one of the best in my point of view. Especially the arrange version which sounds so crisp and clean on my sound system.
I love Megaman as much as everyone on this cafe, but who knows how long we will get something to spice up our favorite recipe again.
Long Live I AM!
[this message was edited by neo0r0chiaku on Fri 27 May 22:47] |
| Iggy 10250th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P - IGGY ARI !
| "Re(5):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Fri 27 May 22:57
quote:
All this stems back from the original game, where a stoic faced cute little robot was tasked to kill all the other robots in the world most similar to him (by your hand)
starting by his own brothers.
Cutman and co. always came back in all the spin-off so it's not so depressing if you want to be generous, but in the actual game, they are dead, you killed them, now go kill more robots.
He always struck me as different from other characters from subsequent franchises because his emotions were simple, yet natural. Most "mascot" characters are always happy like they're on weed, or with a stupid grin (I always hated Sonic for that reason).
On both the Japanese and European covers, he always looks serious, not "smouldering with generic rage" like all the western heroes in the last 10 years, but with a more nuanced "there's shit to be done and I'm the only one to do it, so I'll go even if all I want is to stay home with my family".
Megaman 1
Megaman 2
This expression made the ending so great: after all is done, he's running back to his family of choice. I loved this ending so much as a kid: it's the first time I saw en ending that actually concluded an adventure by being part of it, giving a serious and real conclusion to the whole game.
For 3, we had the Japanese cover (god bless) and I think starting with 4 it was the American cover and urgh.
The problem you're pointing at, the misreading of the character as some funny mascot, actually started with the original American packaging. It's cute and all to laugh at bad box-art Megaman, but the other packages are also all sorts of wrong:
MM2
MM3
MM4
MM5
What's with the stupid grin?
The only covers were Rockman is smiling are either spinoff or ports, made long after his legacy was established.
The rest are typical Astroboy expressions, and that's who the character always was for most people in the world outside the US. So in the end I don't fault them for misreading the character if all they had to work with was the US background. It's just that it sucks.
Not to repeat was Chaz said, but even his Amiibo is on point. He's not expressionless, he's just focused, serious, that's Megaman. This is the reason why Amiibo are selling in the first place: they know their source material better than their parent company.
A side note on why Dash is special for many even though the game weren't very good: it's the first Rockman game that oozes happiness.
Courage!
Friendship!
This is the future we all hoped Rockman would receive, instead of Inafune's bleak torture porn from X onward. Unsurprisingly, the US also fucked up this character as well.
EXE was a wonderful rebirth. It didn't appeal to me because I was too old for that, but I loved that it was something different, something happy, and something that was in synch with its time. I will always have much more respect for EXE than for X and Zero for this reason alone.
The problem with recreating Rockman is that 1) you need to have the courage to make a game that has very little in common with the previous game, and keep only the essence of the character. EXE is an avatar in a Pokémon MMO... and yet he's Rockman. They should thing about the youtube generation, make a Minecraft, an physics puzzle game, a cute team-shooter to capitalize on Splatoon, even revive Megaman Universe and try to ride the Mario Maker train: do something first and foremost for the kids of now.
Then, they need an anime series. Yokai Watch showed that an anime is paramount now more than ever, but also that tuning the anime too much with the game is actually detrimental overseas, because you will never be able to synchronize the diffusion with the release of the game in all countries except if you are a behemoth like Pokémon.
In that sense, a non-narrative driven game like a Minecraft, online game or a puzzle game may be the better idea.
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| chazumaru 1707th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(9):New Megaman Announced!" , posted Mon 30 May 13:02
I suspect one very important aspect of Capcom's relationship with its Japanese Mega Man Rockman fans was the robot design contest for each episode (the one Yusuke Murata won twice). I think Kirby has also been through that kind of contest (for new transformations) once or twice as well, but it's a fairly uncommon way to build a relationship with your fanbase.
I am not sure Capcom kept the streak for every episode (I assume the first Rockman X's designs were all in-house) but I know it continued well into the X series / 32-bit era. This was very important to keep fans connected, but also possibly a bad influence on churning out similar games year after year, to keep up with the contest's format and user participations. That being said, considering the unique level of fan engagement, I don't think the repetitive releases were perceived as badly as outside Japan. It was obviously much worse for the US since fans didn't get engaged the same way. (Europe is an entirely different problem since the first game only came out in 1990 and the churning out of new sequels was on an entirely different level of spam.)
According to the eShop's own (admittedly opaque) sales ranking page for Virtual Console games, Rockman X is selling fairly better than Rockman 7, despite the Youtube views I mentioned earlier. That would make sense to me, considering which of the two games better represents nostalgia for the Super Famicom era. Maybe Rockman 7 got more views because some people forgot a 7th episode came out and needed to watch it to remember what it looked like...
Actually this whole conversation (and the fact no Dragon Quest game was available on Virtual Console or the PS Store during last week's extensive DQ propaganda) got me to watch AGDQ speedruns yesterday and finally buy those Rockman 7 and X this morning, although I am not even that big of a Blue Bomber fan... Damn you Nobi.
Même Narumi est épatée !
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