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| |  "Re(3):LIVE ACTION JOJO MOVIE" , posted Thu 29 Sep 22:00  
Indeed, some (a few) of Miike's movies can be interesting. But they mostly are when he's allowed to make up his own stuff. When he adapts something that's too far from his home turf, the result is pretty terrible, and he generally barely cares about the original works anyway.
Yeah, Yokai Daisensô was NOT TOO BAD. Gyakuten Saiban was only good because the anime somehow managed to be even worse. Terraformers is Casshern/Devilman level of atrocious.
What can Miike bring to Jojo? I've seen some people defending him because "he's weird and Jojo is weird", but it doesn't take a genius to see that those are two totally different kind of weirdness and they don't really match together.
Already, the changes to Kôichi and Yukako are extremely worrying and seems to point out to a fundamental misunderstanding of who these characters are and what this part is about.
I think people misunderstand part 4 and think "since it happens in Japan, it will be easier to adapt by/for Japanese people". It's actually extremely tricky because its rhythm and atmosphere only really works in manga. The anime is doing a good work, but it's not without flaws (I have many more reservations about it than about the part 3 adaptation). I shudder thinking what they're going to do to cram it in 90 minutes. It's amazing that they have learned literally nothing from Terraformers, since they already announced they wanted to make several movies out of it.
At least the CGs are going to be hilariously bad... And Araki has done his best to safeguard his manga (they wanted to adapt part 3 which he vetoed, and he also vetoed using any boys band "actors". He also tried to bar most actors from playing Jôtarô, but it seems he bailed out after all on this one).
Anyhow, they already announced that this part, which happens in Japan and is supposed to capture the feeling of strangeness-within-homeliness for Japanese people, will be shot somewhere in Spain.
I'm starting to wonder whether Miike has a Uwe Boll-scheme going on.
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| | "Re(4):LIVE ACTION JOJO MOVIE" , posted Fri 30 Sep 03:14
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Indeed, some (a few) of Miike's movies can be interesting. But they mostly are when he's allowed to make up his own stuff. When he adapts something that's too far from his home turf, the result is pretty terrible, and he generally barely cares about the original works anyway.
Yeah, Yokai Daisensô was NOT TOO BAD. Gyakuten Saiban was only good because the anime somehow managed to be even worse. Terraformers is Casshern/Devilman level of atrocious.
What can Miike bring to Jojo? I've seen some people defending him because "he's weird and Jojo is weird", but it doesn't take a genius to see that those are two totally different kind of weirdness and they don't really match together.
Already, the changes to Kôichi and Yukako are extremely worrying and seems to point out to a fundamental misunderstanding of who these characters are and what this part is about.
I think people misunderstand part 4 and think "since it happens in Japan, it will be easier to adapt by/for Japanese people". It's actually extremely tricky because its rhythm and atmosphere only really works in manga. The anime is doing a good work, but it's not without flaws (I have many more reservations about it than about the part 3 adaptation). I shudder thinking what they're going to do to cram it in 90 minutes. It's amazing that they have learned literally nothing from Terraformers, since they already announced they wanted to make several movies out of it.
At least the CGs are going to be hilariously bad... And Araki
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You bring up some great points about Part 4 being the most difficult to adapt to film. Diamond is Unbreakable is particularly close to my heart as that was the one I actually followed on a weekly basis in middle school. It's the most meandering and episodic of all JoJo arcs. There wasn't even an overarching antagonist until halfway through. While all previous arcs were about manly men on life changing Odysseys, Part 4 was tuned into the rhythm of every day school life, broken up with supernatural hijinks.
I don't expect the upcoming movie to even attempt to capture that feeling. I just hope it's a fun spectacle.
Here are the films that make me think Miike can pull off a good JoJo movie.
Yatterman - Captured the manic energy and visual flair of the original show, which was super stylized. Awesome awesome costumes too.
Great Yokai War - His first big budget mainstream movie. Lots of fun FX and costumes and supernatural stuff. Managed to actually maintain emotional engrossment too (for me anyway). Some great disturbing imagery for a kids film too.
Crows 0 - Managed to make a solid, convincing adaptation of a comic about street punks with a cast of prettyboys. Surprisingly good fight scenes.
Gozu, Audition - Genuinely unnerving and strange atmosphere.
Sukiyaki Western Django - Looks and feels like a living manga.
Ichii the Killer - Great adaptation of a very weird comic. Got really good, iconic performances out of the cast. Full of striking imagery and memorable moments.
The success of this film will depend on which form of Miike shows up. Is he doing this one for the money? Or does he have something invested in it? At the very least it will be interesting (unlike a lot of other competent but forgetable movies)
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Then again, Miike's spurts of originality are often simply outlandish and don't have the social and political viewpoint that Fukusaku would sometimes slip in.
I must respectfully disagree. One of my favourite things about his movies is that I feel like there's actually an interesting point to his subversion.
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
For instance, Visitor Q seems like a typical edgy in your face art film. It is full of taboos like incest, necrophelia, poop stuff etc. But then, by the end of the film, the family, through all the insanity that's passed has actually reformed back into a traditional nuclear family with a domineering father, doting mother and kids who respect their parents. That blew my mind. I'd never seen a movie contrast it's aesthetic with its core themes like that before.
Audition was a really great mashup of horror and romance. It starts off as a pretty legit romantic dramedy about an older man falling in love with a younger woman. Then it slowly descends into horror.
13 Assassins is a great action movie. It's touching how the lead Samurai guy finally finds something worth giving his life to. And then there's the absurd ending where his nephew is like "Well I'm off to America to bang white chicks." It was a really funny note to end on. But it reflects the reality of our generation, comfortably pursuing our frivolous dreams while our parents had to escape from war and our grandparents had to fight in them.
Harakiri was an incredible indictment of the feudal class system and machismo/bravado in general. Some amazing human drama plays out. Love, honor, sacrifice, loss of faith, revenge. By the end of the film the hero has shown everyone to be an incredible hypocrite before his own demise. And what do they do? They brush themselves off as if none of it ever happened. The last shot where the Shogun comes by and compliments the house of Li and they're all like "oh I'm so happy!" is such a crushing punchline to everything preceding it. It's a very different ending to the original film where it's implied that their dishonor would eventually be discovered.
Ichii The Killer. Man. That movie. It starts off as this really enthralling romanticization of violence and nihilism. Tadanobu Asano is just the coolest, meanest dude you've ever seen. And he thinks he's going to have an amazing shodown with Ichii who is described as "everyone has a bit of a sadist and masochist in them. But Ichii is 100% sadist." When he finally meets this fabled killer, it's so incredibly disappointing. He actually ends up awkwardly trying to comfort him. Depending on how you read the ending next he either kills himself out of this final disallusionment, or he has an exciting but also ultimately pretty empty death. I thought it was actually a pretty healthy takeaway from this kind of film: if you romanticise pain and suffering and death, you're just going to end up very disappointed.
Gozu explores the homoerotic subtext of Yakuza films etc etc
End of Spoiler
I feel like there's always something interesting going on beneath the surface of (most) of Miike's films!
I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but this is super fun to talk about, so thanks for your thoughtful comments!
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Jojo is one of those cases where the long-standing Hollywood convention of hiring people who are way too old to be teenagers to act as teenagers would actually work, because it is impossible for me to imagine many of the "teenage" Jojo characters as teenagers.
Haha yes. No way Jotaro could be played by anyone under 30.
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| "Re(10):LIVE ACTION JOJO MOVIE" , posted Sat 1 Oct 05:20:
After the initial (and more than logical) shock, this piece of news really piqued my interest the moment I knew that Miike Takashi was helming the project. If it ever wasI were asked for a Japanese director that could be classified as utterly bizarre, it's him (well, and Tsukamoto Shinya, but he's in a different league)...
I have fond memories of some of his more recent works, such as Hara-Kiri and 13 Assassins, and some of his earlier films, albeit not finding them as groundbreaking/ shocking as I was told they were, I concede them to be good entertainment. As a result, I let myself harbor some hope (even more so after reading Nobi's ever-hyping views on the matter) but... taking into account that Sitges was revealed to be the main filming location my faith in the project begins to waver once again. Being a typical, mediterranean coastal town that sports such a distinctive architectural style (so different to Araki's fictional Morioh) I seriously doubt they would be able to pull it off in the end. But, hey! Who knows, if they were to shot only in generic locations (avoiding most of the biggest buildings, such as the church) and apply tons of color filters to give them that surreal, Namek-like style found in Araki's illustrations of that period, it may be enough to do the trick...
As Iggy pointed out before, another Uwe Boll-like scheme of epic proportions may be at hand. It's either that or just a pretext for Araki to visit the Spanish LGBT Mecca film set on his next holidays...
Edit: Disregard that, no color filters are needed in Sitges...
[this message was edited by HAYATO on Sat 1 Oct 05:25] |
| | "Re(7): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Tue 15 Nov 03:50
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Kusanagi and her creators may have been whitewashed from the comic, but will she maintain her cavelier approach to cybersex? Stay tuned.
I wouldn't mind if they just changed her name and made her white in the movie.
Edge of Tomorrow was fine starring Tom Cruise as an original character. It was actually a great movie!
Having her still named Motoko Kusanagi, but played by Scarjo is downright stupid and insulting.
It also opens up countless overwrought, self important, shallow, conceited, poorly informed, sheltered, American-centric, aggressively aggrivating, ubiquitous conversations about how "well anime characters look white anyway!"
I really wish there were some way to block those from my life. Ohwait, it's called staying off the internet haha!
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| | "Re(9): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Tue 15 Nov 12:49
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Now that I think about it I have no idea what I'm supposed to think about when I imagine GitS. Is it the talky, oily perversions that Masamune Shirow draws? The robo-procedural of Stand Alone Complex? The blank stares and basset hounds of Oshii? I don't know, but I'm pretty certain one point of commonality is that the characters are Japanese.
Major Kusanagi varies a ton in personality depending on the medium. In the comics she's a lot more boisterous and outgoing. In the movies she's steely and cold. In the TV show she's kind of in between.
One commonality though, is that she's supremely confident, intellectually fearless and hellbent on exceeding her own human limits.
This movie will not have that. Instead i predict it will have the usual "I didn't ask for this life!" narrative, with a stupid climax about regaining her lost humanity.
Weird racial issues aside, it's just going to be a crappy movie.
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Forgive my coarse language but holy hell, that Rising-Sun-faced monstrosity is the ******* ugliest Robo-Geisha I have ever seen. Dear god that's repulsive.
Bless your heart.
Seriously, this is like if someone wanted to design an American culture android and came up with a cowgirl with the scowling face of somebody's Trump voting aunt with the American flag painted on it.
It's really alarming to me to see how many fans are eating up the crummy visuals on display. Even more disheartening is seeing Oshii being paraded around, forced to say things like "Surely this will be the most looking Ghost in the Shell movie yet."
BARFBARFBARF
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| "Re(8): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Tue 15 Nov 18:37
Finally saw the trailer - it seemed to go out of its way to replicate famous scenes from the anime, but not being all that familiar with the wider GitS settings and stories, I wonder if there's something that a live-action medium could have handled in a more interesting manner than past entries.
If nothing else, there's some presentation of nudity that doesn't bother to present itself as sexy or anything, just a functional way to get a job done, even if, again, it mostly seems to be referencing famous anime depictions. I'll take my semi-positives where I can find it, even if right now I'm not really convinced to go see the movie (not many movies have got my attention recently at that level, I think the latest were Deadpool and Dr Strange).
Speaking of references to the animated medium - Nobi, have you seen a show in the current anime season called Flip-Flappers? My girlfriend's been getting us to watch that, and while early on I wasn't really impressed (and got a faint yuri vibe from it), it does seem to be quite the artist-driven project, with some really interesting and colorful visuals. Story-wise it only started getting interesting for me at about episode 3 or 4, and it's hard to tell what the story's ultimately leading up to as each episode uses a mcguffin hunt as an excuse for whatever it sets out to do. Also, charming little ED.
...!!
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| "Re(10): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Sat 19 Nov 01:38
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It's really alarming to me to see how many fans are eating up the crummy visuals on display. Even more disheartening is seeing Oshii being paraded around, forced to say things like "Surely this will be the most looking Ghost in the Shell movie yet."
BARFBARFBARF
Being a huge Shirow fan and given that the original manga is one of my favorite pieces of sci-fi I've ever read, I think I should refrain from posting my feelings about this botched abortion "live-action adaptation", lest I end up looking like a tinhat lunatic or something worse... but I can't!!
It saddens me to no end to look how shallow sensitivities are regarding aesthetics and faithfulness to foreign source material from which Hollywood takes inspiration nowadays. It's as if only US properties or US-centric stories and historical biopics should be treated with utmost respect, and anything else should submit its aspirations on getting a faithful, respectful adaptation and be content with becoming a repurposed, soulless byproduct tailored to the lowest key denominator of "American Standards".
If that wasn't enough, there's something that worries me even more: how easily this film appeased the most dedicated manga fans and gained momentum amongst them and Blockbuster meatheads just by showing a trailer choked with generic cyberpunk visuals and badly plagiarized shots from an animated film that first-aired more than 20 years ago. If this film ends up being a box office hit, which is almost a given, taking into account teenagers' favourite FatassJo stars in it (and woblling around her cyberlard while stuck into a sexy skin-color spandex suit nonetheless!), the future never looked so grim for both sci-fi and animanga fans... and I wasn't even thinking on Blade Runner 2... 
Welcome to the future of film entertainment. Enjoy "Shell without a Ghost: The Movie".
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| | "Re(2):Re(10): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Sat 19 Nov 03:56
quote:
It's really alarming to me to see how many fans are eating up the crummy visuals on display. Even more disheartening is seeing Oshii being paraded around, forced to say things like "Surely this will be the most looking Ghost in the Shell movie yet."
BARFBARFBARF
Being a huge Shirow fan and given that the original manga is one of my favorite pieces of sci-fi I've ever read, I think I should refrain from posting my feelings about this botched abortion "live-action adaptation", lest I end up looking like a tinhat lunatic or something worse... but I can't!!
It saddens me to no end to look how shallow sensitivities are regarding aesthetics and faithfulness to foreign source material from which Hollywood takes inspiration nowadays. It's as if only US properties or US-centric stories and historical biopics should be treated with utmost respect, and anything else should submit its aspirations on getting a faithful, respectful adaptation and be content with becoming a repurposed, soulless byproduct tailored to the lowest key denominator of "American Standards".
If that wasn't enough, there's something that worries me even more: how easily this film appeased the most dedicated manga fans and gained momentum amongst them and Blockbuster meatheads just by showing a trailer choked with generic cyberpunk visuals and badly plagiarized shots from an animated film that first-aired more than 20 years ago. If this film ends up being a box office hit, wh
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Bless your heart.
Spoon, you were right. MMCafe IS my echo chamber :D (when we aren't discussing Street Fighter IV or V that is)
www.art-eater.com
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| | "Re(2):Re(10): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Sat 19 Nov 06:19
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If this film ends up being a box office hit, which is almost a given,
I don't know. I'm not a bit fan of Ghost in the Shell. The trailer does nothing to sell me on the film. Honestly, the trailer makes the film look bad.
More than that, I don't think the trailer is going to be that appealing to general audiences, those that aren't GITS fans. At least not in the US. I could do no more than make wild unfounded guesses at what the worldwide reception will be. I can't say that the film will tank. I can't even find reference to the budget, so I can't say "It's going to lose money." It probably won't because I can't see it actually costing that much money to make. I don't think it will be considered a success by Hollywood standards. (Mind, Hollywood standards are pretty broken even under normal circumstances.)
From a US perspective, the trailer shows a film that looks like a poor adaptation of some other property, or like a made-for-TV/cable flick that was accidentally given the production budget of a full movie theater release. It simply doesn't look like a "made for live action film" property.
Take the nude/stealth suit... Regardless of whether it looks good or bad (though I lean more towards "bad"), it looks out of place in a big budget Western film. It looks cheap. It is far enough from a bare skin look that it fails to sell the nude ScarJo look. It isn't flashy, so it doesn't sell the flashy visuals either. It looks like the production crew just found a cheap full body stocking, one where the color would have no chance of ever being confused for "nude" while simultaneously pretending to cater to the idea of being "nude". It looks like either a made-for-TV choice, or a film that is adhering too strongly to some source material (even though the source material did look "nude", and the manga was certainly selling the sexy image.)
That's the kind of feeling the visuals in the trailer in general give me. The action looks cheap. Batou looks 'made-for-TV', like a guest villain on an episode of Star Trek. Nothing looks like a blockbuster film.
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| "Re(3):Re(10): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Sun 20 Nov 02:45
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If this film ends up being a box office hit, which is almost a given,
I don't know. I'm not a bit fan of Ghost in the Shell. The trailer does nothing to sell me on the film. Honestly, the trailer makes the film look bad.
More than that, I don't think the trailer is going to be that appealing to general audiences, those that aren't GITS fans. At least not in the US. I could do no more than make wild unfounded guesses at what the worldwide reception will be. I can't say that the film will tank. I can't even find reference to the budget, so I can't say "It's going to lose money." It probably won't because I can't see it actually costing that much money to make. I don't think it will be considered a success by Hollywood standards. (Mind, Hollywood standards are pretty broken even under normal circumstances.)
From a US perspective, the trailer shows a film that looks like a poor adaptation of some other property, or like a made-for-TV/cable flick that was accidentally given the production budget of a full movie theater release. It simply doesn't look like a "made for live action film" property.
Take the nude/stealth suit... Regardless of whether it looks good or bad (though I lean more towards "bad"), it looks out of place in a big budget Western film. It looks cheap. It is far enough from a bare skin look that it fails to sell the nude ScarJo look. It isn't flashy, so it doesn't sell the flashy visuals either. It looks like the production crew j
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I am bit surprised if she turned down from being naked in general during productions for her nude scenes and the producers just CGI her lady parts from actually showing. The payment wasn't high enough but actors these days take their clothes of for anything.
Long Live I AM!
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| | "Re(4):Re(10): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Sun 20 Nov 05:51:
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All that stuff about the suit and the body that wears it
Well, I'm not a fan of the suit design either, and I kind of assume the only reason they bothered making the suit is to badly copy that one great scene from the animated movie.
I'll be much more impressed if they have the balls to attempt the scene where "Major Major" tears her body apart while trying to wrench the hatch off of a tank. Considering the look of the suit, though, I doubt it's in their budget. That would be truly shocking, IMHO. Finally, an scene that would actually justify the often overused slow-mo effect.
Regarding ScarJo, I would not argue that she is necessarily the right person for the role. I'd have preferred someone else. However, I don't see any need to trash the actress unless it was criticizing her actual performance (which is kind of tough to do from a trailer).
It would be kind of shitty to criticize her for "not doing a good job being naked enough," though. How the character is depicted isn't on her... that's the casting director and the costume designer. Or maybe that's up to the producers. Or the investors, hahah? The writers, meanwhile, program the behavior. ScarJo merely attempts to perform to spec. You can't really blame the shell for looking how it looks, right? That's her body. She's made of meat, as are we all. (Unless there are some rogue AIs on this message board... what ever happened to Onslaught?) And of course, beauty is subjective.
P.S. - What the hell kind of name is "Hanka"? Is it just me or is "Hanka Robotics" easily turned into a joke?
Han is often "half"... so, Half Price Robotics? Half Quality Robotics?
I'd like to see the kanji for that one.
P.P.S. - Batou does look like made-for-TV shit-level cheapness. Very apt observation. Sigh.
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sun 20 Nov 05:54] |
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| "Re(2):Re(10): Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION GITS..." , posted Sun 20 Nov 07:26
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repurposed, soulless byproduct tailored to the lowest key denominator of "American Standards"
Which are getting lower by the day, to say nothing of the exciting new lows that pandering to the undiscerning nouveau riche market in China is bringing!
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Han is often "half"... so, Half Price Robotics? Half Quality Robotics?
Ha, perfect guesses! The hanka that come to mind are indeed "half-price" (半価) or "half-assed" (半可). I will ignore the more likely "prosperity" (繁華).
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Spoon, you were right. MMCafe IS my echo chamber :D (when we aren't discussing Street Fighter IV or V that is)
Oh, never fear, soon, sooooon, you shall come around to my way of thinking...
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "Re(1):Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION Monster Hunter" , posted Wed 23 Nov 07:13
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Yeay.
From the genius that brought us the Resident Evil movies.
It's very fortunate I don't care about MH, but... sigh.
Well, as if the GiTS fiasco wasn't enough, now shit hits the fan once more...
I hate to sound like a grumpy old man once again but, as a moderate MonHun fan myself, I can't find any single good thing about the way they want to approach the franchise.
Back then in 2008, (around the time of MonHun Portable 2nd G was released) I was really into the series. Thanks to the extreme attention to detail Capcom put into it, I remember being enthralled by the series' vibrant presentation and rich lore and thus, I couldn't help to think what such a magnificent fantasy world would look like if translated to a proper Hollywood film.
I always thought that MonHun's universe would be the perfect setting for an action-driven, environmentally conscious adventure film, full of breathtaking visuals, gorgeous natural landscapes and a powerful ecologist message permeating the story, pretty much what other products such as Jean-Jacques Annaud's "The Bear" or Miyazaki Hayao's "Mononoke Hime" delivered back then.
In my naivety, I came to expect a story complying with minimum prerequisites to make it believable (or decent enough to easily achieve suspension of disbelief, at the very least). Something in the line of "Iron Age Random Hunter/ Huntress #5 arrives at a village that, due to unexpected environmental/ climate changes lays under the constant siege of ancient, thought to be extinct vicious beasts" would suffice, I think. Or, perhaps, something along the lines of "Due to an strange ailment threatening his/her village, young Random Hunter/ Huntress wil embark him/herself on a dangerous rite of passage. In order to save his family he/se'll go beyond any place he/she's ever known in search of the fangs of a mythical beast that is said to reign over life and death at the ends of the world" would have been enough for most of the audience... but no, Hollywood had to do it once again. I shoud have known better and abandoned hope the very first moment I heard a MonHun film project was in the works.
Truth be told, I don't see myself as a talented storywriter, but modesty aside, any of those premises above look way better than the crap they pretend to force-feed us. Heck, even if going the modern setting route was such an imperative, there were plenty of options way more creative than the one already chosen. Just pull an Indiana Jones/Quartermain clone and send him/her to Agartha, or put him/her in the middle of Congo after the trail of Mokele-Mbembe or... But, who am I kidding? We are talking about Hollywood, they would manage themselves to make it suck anyway!! 
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| | "Re(2):Meanwhile, LIVE ACTION Monster Hunter" , posted Wed 23 Nov 20:04
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Yeay.
From the genius that brought us the Resident Evil movies.
It's very fortunate I don't care about MH, but... sigh.
Well, as if the GiTS fiasco wasn't enough, now shit hits the fan once more...
I hate to sound like a grumpy old man once again but, as a moderate MonHun fan myself, I can't find any single good thing about the way they want to approach the franchise.
Back then in 2008, (around the time of MonHun Portable 2nd G was released) I was really into the series. Thanks to the extreme attention to detail Capcom put into it, I remember being enthralled by the series' vibrant presentation and rich lore and thus, I couldn't help to think what such a magnificent fantasy world would look like if translated to a proper Hollywood film.
I always thought that MonHun's universe would be the perfect setting for an action-driven, environmentally conscious adventure film, full of breathtaking visuals, gorgeous natural landscapes and a powerful ecologist message permeating the story, pretty much what other products such as Jean-Jacques Annaud's "The Bear" or Miyazaki Hayao's "Mononoke Hime" delivered back then.
In my naivety, I came to expect a story complying with minimum prerequisites to make it believable (or decent enough to easily achieve suspension of disbelief, at the very least).
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Your story outline is infinitely more engaging than what they're gonna come up with. Having an environmental angle would actually work well for this film too. Good lord, can you imagine if it had even an ounce of the depth that Mononoke Hime had in regards to making a statement about the relationship between civilization and nature?? It could be an ACTUALLY GOOD movie!
I think people actually really need this kind of message out there right now too considering the current state of the world, especially considering how it's very likely the US will soon try to renege on all sorts of environmental pacts meant to stave off the destruction of the earth.
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