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| |  "Re(6):Fighting Game Thread Fall 2018" , posted Fri 28 Sep 07:45  
quote:
I will almost certainly get Soul Calibur VI, at the risk of getting my heart broken again, and not to fear, Prof---the series has kind of sucked since the nearly perfect first two entries, so it will be new all over again for many of us, too!
...the caveat is that I'm not sure my computer can meet the minimum requirements, so I'm waiting for you, the Cafe clientelle, to tell me whether it's worth an upgrade!
My wife heard of a pretty sweet Amazon deal during E3 and pre-ordered the game for 50 bucks Canadian (which is kind of a steal, since it's now CDN $80). So looks like I'll be playing thanks to her.
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| PSN: Gojira_X
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| "Re(4):Fighting Game Thread Fall 2018" , posted Sun 30 Sep 10:15:
quote:
Did anyone get a chance to try out the SC6 demo? I would be curious to hear the reactions of those who know the series think of the new mechanics and general gameplay. Since I've never been any good at SC I can't comment on that aspect of the game. Still, I liked it even if I couldn't comprehend it!
I'm definitely playing it, but I can't really comment on anyone except Kilik because fights become scarcer at a lower level, which means I had to win my way to people with half-decent connections in order to get the best experience. I had to pick a character to be good with and learn as much as I could about them, and Kilik's really the only one in the demo I know more than a little about. If not for that issue I definitely would be trying to get a broader experience, but I guess that will have to wait until it's released in a couple more weeks.
As for how it feels, that is also a little hard to say without an offline comparison. When it feels good it feels good, but sometimes it also feels bad. There are times I can't tell if my timing is bad or a lag spike is affecting it, and it's probably both. So I have no baseline for how responsive the game is actually meant to be.
That said, there's a mix of good and bad. It's mostly good, but...
The good is the meter management, the return of guard impact as a defensive option, the light movement speed with decently-sized stages, and the lethal hit system which is cute, a bunch of specific moves with mini-tasks you can do during a match to break armor and get a big old stun/launcher. One of Kilik's for example is hitting his 4A 4 times, which is hilarious since this move is a low attack that Kiliks have been famous for spamming in every SC. He even counts along with it so that you know how many you've hit. Everyone has at least several of these, thought not all of them are as simple.
The bad is the reversal edge mechanic, which I'm being a little hard on only because it's very hard to read and even harder to tell if you're actually doing anything, rather detrimental to any learning. There's a flowchart out there that explains how it works and it's sickeningly complicated. But after all that, the good is that once you know what the initial attack looks like, it's easy to dodge and punish it.
Also Nightmare is a personal bad for me because he's ugly and safe and his moves are gross
[this message was edited by Gojira on Sun 30 Sep 10:17] |
| | "A tale of souls and swords, eternally retold" , posted Thu 18 Oct 14:04
So, a coworker brought Soul Calibur VI to the office today and we were playing as bit during lunch time. That would be as much as a poor PS4-less soul such as me can possibly afford, unless Namco decides to port the thing into Switch in half a year (which shouldn't be too difficult because, boy, it does look like a PS3 game).
Now, what the game lacks on the technical aspect it compensates with a nice presentation and a solid gameplay. I like the detail that the portraits on the character selection roster are actually the official illustrations, and not some ugly 3D renders as had been the case on recent Caliburs.
The gameplay has many flaws, that's for sure, but I have to admit that I had a blast kicking my coworker's ass. Combat feels fast and energetic, which is great, but also a bit too chaotic for its own good. It is easy to lose track of what's happening on the fight, and in that sense it feels closer to a 2D fighter, with all the specials, desperation moves and whatnot. That may be a plus for some people, but I always prefer my 3D fighters to be more slow paced. The matches can become quickly a button mashing contest, but once you know what you are doing there seems to be enough depth to the new systems to allow for interesting mind games, and for flashy bouts of polygonal violence too. Also, the clothes destruction feature feels silly and out of place, but that may just be me.
So, all in all, I'm glad to see this return of Soul Calibur. Not a perfect game, not the game I'd have liked to see, but a fun to play game nonetheless. The soul still burns!
A Talking about Japanese History sword in hand
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(1):A tale of souls and swords, eternally r" , posted Fri 19 Oct 04:56
I swear, everybody except me already has a copy of SC6. Hopefully I can play this weekend!
quote:
It is easy to lose track of what's happening on the fight, and in that sense it feels closer to a 2D fighter, with all the specials, desperation moves and whatnot.
It is odd how many sub-systems and meter management have found their way into SC. It's certainly a far cry from the early SC games where the games felt more about stances and positioning. I don't know how things like the reversal edge are going to play out but it at least makes it feel like SC6 is something new.
quote:
Also, the clothes destruction feature feels silly and out of place, but that may just be me.
Honestly, it's goofy but I sort of like it. Too many weapon based fighters focus on violence. Even things like Samurai Spirits can get gruesome depending on the game. This, however, makes it feel more exciting than brutal. We're going to beat each other naked!
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| | "Re(2):A tale of souls and swords, eternally r" , posted Fri 19 Oct 05:15
quote:
I swear, everybody except me already has a copy of SC6. Hopefully I can play this weekend!
It is easy to lose track of what's happening on the fight, and in that sense it feels closer to a 2D fighter, with all the specials, desperation moves and whatnot.
It is odd how many sub-systems and meter management have found their way into SC. It's certainly a far cry from the early SC games where the games felt more about stances and positioning. I don't know how things like the reversal edge are going to play out but it at least makes it feel like SC6 is something new.
Also, the clothes destruction feature feels silly and out of place, but that may just be me.
Honestly, it's goofy but I sort of like it. Too many weapon based fighters focus on violence. Even things like Samurai Spirits can get gruesome depending on the game. This, however, makes it feel more exciting than brutal. We're going to beat each other naked!
I kind of liked how Tekken and SC were the games without super meters, but I've been around the games for so long that that being a novel aspect of them might just be me being old. I did like the weapon durability gauge, which put guard crush in the context of the weapon you have, though!
Clothes breaking in SC4 gave me the single most memorable moment of my time with the entire SC series, so I am fine with it being there. As Ishmael says, in spite of all the horrible things you do to people in the average SC fight, gore or blood have never been a part of the game's atmosphere, but I do agree that it sometimes veers a bit too far in the direction of Tamsoft fanservice.
I'm sure Kikkoken can't wait to blow off Astaroth's codpiece 
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| | "Re(3):A tale of headaches, eternally retold" , posted Fri 19 Oct 11:24
In just a few minutes of playing SC6, I find there is one thing about the game that is kind of nauseating: the whirling background as a result of 8-way run.
The camera always tries to keep the two fighters presented along a particular place in the screen, which makes sense, but due to the combination of the speed at which the characters move and the fact that they do so in fairly discrete steps, the background whirls in a really terrible fashion! In some cases, it seems to do so in a bunch of individual lurches (e.g. at medium distance if one person is doing most of the stepping), and in other cases it spins at hilarious speed (e.g. right up next to each other). Now that the backgrounds have so much detail, this creates an intense amount of noise on the screen and is headache-inducing/eyesore in a way that not even Rashid's flying stage in SFV can top.
I think I will have to play this game on PC, and with a mod that lets me turn the background off. It's just intolerable.
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| | "Re(8):A tale of dongs, eternally retold" , posted Mon 22 Oct 11:53:
quote:
I’d like to elevate the discussion by reminding everyone that the original Japanese for Soul Calibur’s “Evil Seed” was “Evil Sperm.”
It still is. 
Surprisingly, they didn't change it for this reboot.
So basically the storyline says Siegfried matched perfectly with the cursed Soul Edge, and he ejac... spread evil sperm all over the world when they became one.
After finally playing Soul Calibur 6 over the weekend and getting the online trophies, I'm not really sure how to judge the game aside from "it's fun". Most of the players I've matched up with were clearly experienced fighting game players up to a certain degree, albeit not Soul Calibur players. Of the 50+ matches, I've faced only two clearly non-fighting game "button mashing" players, which I guess is a sign that, at least in Japan, the game was mainly picked up by fighting game players eager for a new experience.
Many of the players were making the common mistakes of a 2D fighting game player, such as dashing by tapping forward twice or hitting back on block (not that you want to really block too often to begin with in this game). Very few were taking advantage of the 3D field depth, so I'd assume they weren't Tekken players. Each of the system and tools in the game are clear cut on when they're supposed to be used; for example, throws in most 2D fighting games come in handy when you can't punish opponent's moves that have fast recovery, but in SC6 it's really just for breaking down blocking opponents because it comes out too slow (like half a second) and can even be avoided with Reversal Edge. Backdash seems utterly useless aside from dodging kicks (is it actually useful in dodging horizontal slashes?), which is probably a message from the game's battle planner that players should fight agressively.
From a 2D fighting game player's perspective, the gameplay is vastly different and a tad hard to grasp since it seems to be about going into constant rocks-papers-scissors based on risk vs reward. That of course exists in 2D fighters as well, but the fundamental strategy in 2D fighters is about avoiding that situation as much as possible rather than to dive into it. It explains why the general damage output in SC6 is quite low and doesn't allow high-damage combos off a weak attack even when there's meter. It's a different experience, and makes it all the more fun.
What's been making the learning for SC6 a bit hard is that apparently the fundamentals have been changed from previous games, so using older game tutorials as a guide has its limits. For example as mentioned, backdash has been apparently nerfed in SC6, whereas the normal run speed has been increased so you don't really need to keep sidestepping or do wave dashes. There's also no quickstepping by tapping up or down twice. Apparently a volume of old moves forces the player to go into a standing blockstring on the second attack (can't dodge low), which is probably a way to make the game more beginner friendly. Reversal edge is also a new addition very obviously, which seems like a good comeback mechanic but not a move you'd want to use when you're at an advantage since you force yourself to go into a rocks-papers-scissors game that can potentially end up putting you into a lethal hit state if you initially go into a clash. Reversal Edge builds up a lot of meter though, so using it at certain timings will clearly benefit the player's match progress.
Meter management certainly seems to be key in this game, although I'm still not sure if it's better to use them for Critical Edge or Soul Charge. For the time being most people are using it for Critical Edge, but once people figure out the combos for Soul Charge, things may change.
In terms of graphics, I didn't realize until checking out some screenshots, but wow the textures are quite low-res during gameplay--they're fine during the cinematics like the winpose, but otherwise as Maese mentioned, it feels like a PS3 game. Comparing the game to DOA5:LR feels almost unfair. This may be to compensate stable framerate, especially considering how much the screen rotates due to the game mechanics. But that's all fine, because there's character creation and you need to fight Pokemon wannabes amongst other monstrosities. 
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 22 Oct 15:14] |
| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
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| "Re(9):A tale of dongs, eternally retold" , posted Mon 22 Oct 22:07
quote:
I’d like to elevate the discussion by reminding everyone that the original Japanese for Soul Calibur’s “Evil Seed” was “Evil Sperm.”
It still is.
Surprisingly, they didn't change it for this reboot.
So basically the storyline says Siegfried matched perfectly with the cursed Soul Edge, and he ejac... spread evil sperm all over the world when they became one.
After finally playing Soul Calibur 6 over the weekend and getting the online trophies, I'm not really sure how to judge the game aside from "it's fun". Most of the players I've matched up with were clearly experienced fighting game players up to a certain degree, albeit not Soul Calibur players. Of the 50+ matches, I've faced only two clearly non-fighting game "button mashing" players, which I guess is a sign that, at least in Japan, the game was mainly picked up by fighting game players eager for a new experience.
Many of the players were making the common mistakes of a 2D fighting game player, such as dashing by tapping forward twice or hitting back on block (not that you want to really block too often to begin with in this game). Very few were taking advantage of the 3D field depth, so I'd assume they weren't Tekken players. Each of the system and tools in the game are clear cut on when they're supposed to be used; for example, throws in most 2D fighting games come in handy when you can't punish opponent's moves that have fast recovery, but in SC6 it's really just for breaking down bloc
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Hhhmmm my pre-order copy hasn't arrived yet. These online shops sucks. Took over a week to get my megaman 11 also. Well in any case in Twitter I have seen countless of different custom characters from the likes of Pokémon, KOF, SF, etc. Seems like people are having fun with it. Costumes looks good and funny.
Long Live I AM!
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(9):A tale of dongs, eternally retold" , posted Wed 24 Oct 05:19
A friend got Soul Calibur 6 and we tried it out for about four hours last night by trying to play it as if it were Soul Calibur 2. It is...worse than 1 or 2, but better than 3, 4, or 5, which I guess still makes it the best Soul Calibur in 15 years! Stuff I noticed:
Lows and trips: It feels like there are more viable lows and trips than 3 onwards, but still not very many at all compared to the glory years, especially from 8-way run. We play pretty different characters (Siegfried/Nightmare for me and Talim/Ivy for him), so I don't think it's my imagination! My friend said it's like they very consciously decided that trips and wake-up games were not going to be big, so they excised them after 2. If it was because these rock-paper-scissor choices were (incorrectly) deemed to be "not very fun," it's pretty weird to add an explicit version of that game with Reversal Edge!
Guard Impact and grabs: It seems lame not to have differentiated high/low guard impacts, but then again, I heard that they mostly disappeared from later games, so maybe this is still progress (back to 2003). Having only one grab button combination isn't much fun since there used to be a strategic zoning choice for some characters based which grab threw the person near or far. Am I missing something?
Exploding clothing: I love it, even if my poor Siegried kept experiencing the shame of losing his pants in addition to possession by an evil sword. For some reason, Seung Mina and Mitsurugi seem to get the worst of it, but fortunately they have the best taste in underwear anyway.
Stages: These are prety enough but it doesn't seem like there are very many of them to start.
Super Combos Critical Edge: These suck and are too long. If I wanted meter management I'd play a Street Fighter game. But I guess they've been there for a while now? I guess I can still use the same energy for Soul Charge, which I'm glad to see here and which I heard had also been missing for several games maybe?
Character creation: I like to imagine that there's a whole B-team in the Soul Calibur department that was mostly poached from Princess Maker 2 or something, and that the main game designers are perplexed that these guys keep getting to come back to make new games with them. Needless to say, this mode is a riot and I love it even if I'll never use it.
Who is that man?: No, really, who is this old man who suddenly appears on screen to get hit during training mode when I want to see a demonstration of an attack, instead of the actual 2P character I chose? I selected Sophitia for a reason, you know.
Questions: We dove straight into versus to see if this could play remotely as fun as 2, but I guess there's a lot of other stuff. Where do I get more stages and 2P costumes and colors? Which of the two boring-sounding story modes do I have to do?
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(2):Re(10):A tale of dongs, eternally retol" , posted Thu 25 Oct 22:50
quote:
Where do I get more stages and 2P costumes and colors? Nowhere, that is the biggest problem along with missing characters.
However, what you need to do is in the story mode (not the libra of soul, which is a very good single player mode with your preferred choice of cute lizardman or burly granite statue).
Go Groh's story, which is as uninteresting as the character, after which you will unlock Azwel's story.
Then, you do Azwel's story.
Then, you thank me.
I had not realized that Rasputin from World Heroes had hopped on a boogieboard and surfed straight into SC6. Now I'm going to have to work on learning Azwel since he's a goof.
It's a small thing, but I like that Azwel was strolling around 16th century Europe with what appears to be a monkey skull tied to his belt. It was the fashion at the time.
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| PSN: Gojira_X
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| "Re(3):Re(10):A tale of dongs, eternally retol" , posted Fri 26 Oct 11:50:
I've been having fun with SC6. Movement feels fluid and fast, haven't seen too much of the characteristic tracking or hitbox BS that usually plagues these games. I like the new soul charge, which reminds me of Max mode in KoFXIV where it gives you access to more comboable moves. On the whole the game doesn't feel broken to me yet, although it's still in competitive infancy so it's easy to get away with just about anything. The movelists have been redone to the point where everyone has to be relearned even if you've played SC a lot. In some cases it even becomes a detriment, having to unlearn certain reactions that were already built up, but I'd be lying if I said that was unexpected. Reversal edge is probably the only thing I find dumb about it; the concept of a forced janken minigame with elaborate animations reminds me of Mortal Kombat vs DCU. At least it's easy to step and avoid dealing with it most of the time.
Among the new characters, Azwel is WONDERFUL. Really annoying to fight, but a great character in any voice, possibly the best new SC character in decades. I don't care much for Geralt although I do like making him do his whirly "DOH-DOH" sidestep over and over so he looks as dorky as possible. Groh is a chuunibyo. He's like Patrokolos but more sad than annoying.
The story mode is okay, not as fancy as Tekken 7 but far more comprehensive with no neglected characters. Libra of Souls is good fun. I made a yandere angel with Raph's moveset and the voice syncs up too perfectly. Haven't finished it yet but I've sunk a pretty good number of hours into it. I'd call it the best single player mode in any SC if not for the slippery stages WHICH I HATE and are probably far more entertaining to watch than they are to participate in.
quote:
Having only one grab button combination isn't much fun since there used to be a strategic zoning choice for some characters based which grab threw the person near or far. Am I missing something?
Everyone still has their 2 throws, it's just that now you perform the other throw with back+A+G. It's pretty awkward to get used to.
[this message was edited by Gojira on Fri 26 Oct 11:59] |
| | "Back from the (not) dead" , posted Sun 18 Nov 22:55:
DOA6 got a new trailer showing three more fighters: Kokoro, La Mariposa and newcomer NiCO.
The new girl fights Pencak Silat, which is a nice choice. Plus, now we know Lisa is alive and well, after DOA5's Story Mode failed to show if she was able to escape the explosion (though it should be obvious that any character that is a woman is always safe in DOA).
Now, Team Ninja revealed pretty much all the women in this game, so unless Brad, Eliot, Leon and Gen-Fu were removed from the roster, it will be interesting to see DOA6 having a "sausage fest" trailer to show them... well, unless there will still be more newcomer girls to be announced.
---
EDIT: oops, I just realized now that I forgot Momiji and Rachel (while they're guests from Ninja Gaiden, both series exist in the same continuity, so it's very likely that they will return for DOA6). And if the four original gals included in DOA Xtreme 3 follow Lisa's example (debuting as beach volleyball players and then becoming proper fighters), the next reveal trailers may be anything BUT a sausage fest.
(there's also Naotora, but I don't see her becoming a proper DOA mainstay)
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Thu 22 Nov 20:57] |
| PSN: DefensorVirtuoso
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| "Re(3):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Tue 27 Nov 04:37
quote:
Seems like a good price for some reference material. I never really got to play the game much at all back when it was new, and I was curious to see how they would avoid the trap of literally every Tekken character just being some version of Dudley in terms of SF feel.
Some questions-
- Does includes all the characters?
- Is still using GFWL or they removed it?
Those 2 are deal breakers, even if the game is at 6 dollars
I believe it has all the characters (and even maybe the costumes?)
No idea for GFWL, unfortunately. Maybe the Steam page says in the EULA?
It's not a game to play online anyway. But I bought it too to mess with the characters in training mode once again, and imagine them in a non-ugly game with non-stupid mechanics.
Isn't so much to play it online, but rather, to make the game run, since GFWL is no longer supported some games have issues starting, plus some performance issues related to that DRM, at least there is a lot of negative reviews of the game related to that.
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| | "Re(5):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Tue 27 Nov 07:16:
So, yeah: can confirm GFWL is still there. There's two packages: "SFxT" which doesn't have the 12 characters, and "SFxT Complete Pack" with the 12 characters, all the costumes and all the DLC Gems (Remember those?). It also has the special color palettes that, I assume, are those who ruined online even more by having neon-colored abominations running everywhere. So, yeah, the full package!
Buying separately just SFxT and the 12 characters without all the cosmetic stuff is for some reason more expensive than the complete package.
I had forgotten the costumes were crossovers, with Jinpachi Dhalsim, Rolento Nina, Poison Lili, Sodom Heihachi, R. Mika Kuma... Most of them look atrocious, but in a dumb, fun way that the Marvel vs series never dared to approach.
[this message was edited by Iggy on Tue 27 Nov 07:19] |
| | "Re(6):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Tue 27 Nov 16:10:
SFxT thoughts:
The SF4 artstye still makes a lot of characters look really goofy, but the Tekken characters have been transferred to that style quite effectively. They look like themselves, while looking also like they are SF characters. Kuma got a radical new face, Law looks way dumber than normal, Jin looks like he asked for makeover to turn himself into Ryu, etc. It's quite an admirable effort.
A lot of iconic Tekken moves got adapted in funny ways. For instance, one of Bryan's most infamous moves, his Orbital Heel, merely became his j.HK. The Relax stance of the Tekken capoeira fighters simply became their crouch. Steve got ported into the game in radical fashion, having his left and right sways for his LK and MK buttons, and the forward roll as HK.
Though there is a universal combo chain with light->medium->heavy->heavy (with the second press of heavy tagging in your partner), all of the Tekken characters have tons of unique chain combos in order to reference many of their unique attack strings from Tekken without making all of them special moves.
A LOT of the Tekken characters have a special move that is some sort of movement with an optional button press. This is part of the "I wonder how they won't make everybody Dudley" thing along with the chain combos I was wondering about, but it doesn't come off too badly. Rather than making everybody Dudley, maybe they just made everybody Maki.
In fact, the way the Tekken characters feel, it almost feels like they belong in a KOF game, not a Street Fighter game. KOF's shortjump feels like it would complement their movesets very well.
It's an interesting novelty, but I don't see myself playing the game much.
I don't think it's a terrible game at all, and it's apparent that a fair amount of effort went into making it. I think a hilarious irony of it is that it'd probably appeal to people who are tired of SFV's endless high damage would find SFxT's relatively low damage refreshing! Single normal hits deal almost no damage unless you proceed to do a chain combo, chain combos from light attacks don't lead to a lot of damage, and you really need to score a jump-in and have the opponent in the corner by the time the tag happens to really get substantial damage. But even then, that combo damage is like... 30%? 40%? And then the opponent can tag out, so in some sense it's like having only done 15% or 20%! Well, it is true that if the combo kills the opponent, the round outright ends, but still!
The game is weirdly fast, though, and I know part of that perception comes from having played a lot of Tekken recently.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Tue 27 Nov 16:13] |
| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(6):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Wed 28 Nov 05:10
SFxT is more interesting than a lot of simply mediocre games because it did so many things wrong. It doesn't make it good, mind you, but it's interesting. There may be some way to view the gem system as something that wouldn't turn into a pay-to-win system and not be more complicated than it was worth but I can't see it. If the gems had been unbalanced the game could have been dumb fun in a Marvel way but it felt like the fear of making the gems too important caused them to be underpowered. That also seems to have been the fate of the Pandora system (remember that?) which was nerfed into pointlessness. This fear of high damage made SFxT the gentle hitting game that Spoon described. I remember hearing that some professional players enjoyed the initial version of SFxT because it encouraged conservative play and they could attack with endless block strings and win on time outs due to chip damage. It was safe, cautious and boring as hell. Small wonder SFxT never found an audience when playing the game was the equivalent of paying your bills on time and eating properly.
quote:
I had forgotten the costumes were crossovers, with Jinpachi Dhalsim, Rolento Nina, Poison Lili, Sodom Heihachi, R. Mika Kuma... Most of them look atrocious, but in a dumb, fun way that the Marvel vs series never dared to approach.
I somehow blanked out those horrific costumes. Wait, Dudley was in the game? Wow, I don't remember anything about SFxT.
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| | "Re(7):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Wed 28 Nov 05:34
quote:
There may be some way to view the gem system as something that wouldn't turn into a pay-to-win system and not be more complicated than it was worth but I can't see it. If the gems had been unbalanced the game could have been dumb fun in a Marvel way but it felt like the fear of making the gems too important caused them to be underpowered.
I remember Capcom trying to claim that the gems weren't pay-to-win because the paid gems weren't better than the free gems, completely ignoring that as long as the paid gems weren't horribly worse, just letting people buy more options was itself a pay-to-win situation.
That, and I want to recall that one of the store pre-order gems (later sold in a DLC bundle) was a flat out better version of one of the free gems anyway.
But the gem system was pretty much DOA anyway. Players wanted to boycott them for being pay-to-win, which I believe played a part in tournament organizers saying that they were going to ban gems due to the set-up time gem selection added. If there hadn't been such vocal fan opposition to gems, then I don't believe tournaments would have been so quick to jump in with their own opposition.
I think gems could have worked, if they were truly designed and implemented as an integral part of the game system. Other games have had alternate versions of characters, style or groove selections, and the like. The gem system could have been a generic highly customizable take on the idea. If it was a gameplay-first design... But with paid DLC gems and the sheer number of gems (itself likely to help pad those paid DLC sets), it was pretty obvious that (regardless of original intentions) the gem system was a profit-first design with gameplay being a distant second at best.
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| | "Re(8):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Wed 28 Nov 06:27
I strongly disagree that Street Fighter characters would convert better to Tekken... for the sole reason I never "got" Tekken. Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter, I understand, but the flow of Tekken has always been lost on me, and Gouki and Geese feel lost in a sea of characters that all blend together.... except Noctis. Even the characters that have distinct moveset differences like Jack, Zafina or Yoshimitsu don't seem to be doing much different with their moves.
However,
quote:
It didn't help that I wasn't entirely keen on SFxT even when playing the SF characters. I know Capcom likes to treat crossover/versus games as their own things, but that sometimes overrides the characters themselves. I also cannot help but feel the Tekken characters might have seen more interesting conversions if they were brought into a "regular" Street Fighter game (perhaps as a few guest characters) than in a crossover.
This is potentially the biggest problem of the game.
The game would have been fine if the Tekken characters had just been added to SF4, maybe with a couple of system changes, and we could have spent time exploring them. Instead, the game itself was so terrible that not only did it homogenize at the gameplay level one of the more diverse cast of fighting game characters in term of moveset, it made everything so bland the Capcom characters themselves felt outside of their element, off, and drab.
It was even worse than CvS1, which, while strangely weighty and stiff, was still reasonably close to a normal SF2/Zero feeling, and CvS2 just pushed the game a bit closer to Zero and away from being its own thing. But SFxT is so buried so far up its own butt I'm not sure an hypothetical SFxT2 would have been able to fix it.
SFxT doesn't feel like SF4 at all. It's surprisingly difficult to imagine how the Tekken characters would play if they had been in SF4, since everything feels so different.
I can't even pick what was the worst part. Every single piece of the system was a terribly bad idea. They even had an autocombo system that was supposed to be more welcoming to newcomers by punishing them for using it (or any player making the mistake of pushing WP twice). Who thought of that? Who played this game before the public beta?
quote:
I believe played a part in tournament organizers saying that they were going to ban gems due to the set-up time gem selection added. If there hadn't been such vocal fan opposition to gems, then I don't believe tournaments would have been so quick to jump in with their own opposition.
Ooooh, I forgot that.
The UI to pick or change your gem was so bad that regardless of their usefulness or strategic interest, I was already too tired to consider looking into them, and ended up using the default option for every character.
When you screw up the very act of choosing a character in a fighting game at the UI level, you should know you've goofed.
Conclusion: I want these movesets in a better game. Jack's is done already. More!
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| | "Re(8):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Wed 28 Nov 06:43
Ironically, FEXL has what is effectively a gems system and they have really quite dramatic effects compared to SFxT! The FEXL "gems" are a lot more interesting than the SFxT ones, with ideas behind gems that don't come online until much later in the match along with ones that can come online very quickly or even right away, or ones that incentivize particular styles of play.
quote:
It just feels like Street Fighter characters would convert better to Tekken. The addition of Akuma (and later Geese) to Tekken 7 only further confirmed that belief.
Honestly, the quality of the implementation of Geese and Akuma I would more attribute to the skill of the team behind them, rather than what the characters are like intrinsically. Their visual direction of Akuma and Geese are fantastic, and the ideas behind how to make the characters play in Tekken systems and feel like Tekken characters while still feeling like 2D characters are quite inspired. None of those qualities are things inherent to those characters.
I think some Tekken characters could definitely convert into interesting SF characters in a big variety of ways, and I would agree that a number of the Tekken characters in SFxT feels uninspired, some to the point of not even really invoking the qualities of how the characters feel in Tekken. For example Geese's sweep in Tekken does not knock down except on counter-hit, but on counter-hit it not only knocks down but it starts a full combo: the first bit initially feels weird since it makes his sweep feel more like a d.MK, but then you discover that it uniquely fits into a pervasive aspect of Geese which is how strong of a counter-hitting character he is. He has 4 regular attacks which are counter-hit combo starters, 3 of which are just really good moves, in addition to his iconic Geese counters. As a result, Geese can play as a powerful and intimidating wall that makes his opponent afraid to hit back, which just feels very Geese-like right down to his stance!
SF has certainly had its share of characters with a big array of chain combos and move complexity, none moreso than Gen, and while I don't expect every Tekken character in SF to be as complicated as Gen, I think a more extreme way of translating the characters to 2D is necessary. I saw this because even in their own game they all have a big array of evasive moves, counter-hitting moves, attack strings, they all function well at point-blank range, etc. They definitely have distinct identities in Tekken, but from the world of 2D games where movelists are much smaller, trying to distill a unique identity from such seemingly well-rounded characters definitely needs a more extreme approach. In the sense that many KOF characters seem to have a more well-rounded set of moves and KOF characters are often more about playing the KOF system, I think that Tekken characters feel more KOF-ish, but that doesn't mean KOF characters don't have distinct gameplay identities. Clark and Daimon and Ramon and DINOSAUR and Angel are all grapplers, but they all definitely have distinct gameplay identities from one another. Daimon may have strong strikes and counters and command rolls and command grabs and earthquakes and anti-air grabs which makes it seem like he has everything, but he's very clearly "Daimon" and not anybody else.
Like if there's one character I could point to as being a kind of weird implementation in SFxT, it's Bryan. In Tekken, he's a character who is a deadly counter-hitter who is somewhat awkward in maintaining a rushdown but can play deadly guessing games against an opponent who has been knocked down. The way in which he's been realized visually in SFxT is really odd and curious (SUPER long gangly arms, really overtly villainous and someone who delights in being villainous), but more odd is that I don't feel like the aspects of how he plays in Tekken are realized all that well in SFxT. He even has this leaping grab that seems all new, which is cool, but I don't see how it fits with who he is or how he plays in Tekken. His Orbital Heel in SFxT is just another j.HK, where in Tekken it's one of his most infamous counter-hitting moves.
I wouldn't be surprised if the experience in working on Smash, Pokken, and the 2D characters in Tekken has collectively given Namco an astounding amount of expertise in making 2D fighting games and 2D fighting game characters at this point.
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| | "Re(9):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Wed 28 Nov 07:31
quote:
I saw this because even in their own game they all have a big array of evasive moves, counter-hitting moves, attack strings, they all function well at point-blank range, etc. They definitely have distinct identities in Tekken, but from the world of 2D games where movelists are much smaller, trying to distill a unique identity from such seemingly well-rounded characters definitely needs a more extreme approach.
From the viewpoint of Street Fighter, most of the Tekken roster are relatively similar in design. Everyone is a physical, close-range fighter. There are almost no projectiles, flight, teleports, or other more fantastical elements. That isn't to say that there are none, but there are very few.
While you might think the sheer size of Tekken's move lists would make it easy to pick the limited number of moves needed for a SF-style system, the design of Tekken characters arguably makes this task difficult as well. Which moves are signature enough to be carried over? Which signature moves will actually translate satisfactorily to 2D? What general styles even "define" the character, when every character can by default do so many things? How much is instead just a generic element of "Tekken"? Some characters stand out for certain styles, but many are a bit more nebulous.
From the viewpoint of Tekken, the limited movesets of Street Fighter characters just gives you plenty of room to fill in and do whatever you want. You might not have three different strengths for every special, but you can have the core identity of each special, every throw, every command normal, and still have another 50+ moves you can add.
Tekken can accept characters that use stuff like super meters or even EX specials. The Rage system pretty much offers the Tekken side its own supers, so even supers translate fairly easily these days. Tekken might not be built around projectiles, but the series has dabbled in the idea of long range attacks since at least Tekken 2, and later dabbled in non-instant ranged attacks. The end result is a system that can work with something that looks like SF-style fireballs without breaking either the fireballs or the game.
Is it impossible to translate Tekken to 2D? Of course not. Is the success of the translation of Akuma and Geese in no small part to the care and effort put into translating those individual characters? Of course. But neither of those details change that I believe it is in general easier to bring a Street Fighter character into 3D than it is to bring a Tekken character into 2D.
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| | "Re(7):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Thu 29 Nov 03:17
quote:
SFxT is more interesting than a lot of simply mediocre games because it did so many things wrong. It doesn't make it good, mind you, but it's interesting. There may be some way to view the gem system as something that wouldn't turn into a pay-to-win system and not be more complicated than it was worth but I can't see it. If the gems had been unbalanced the game could have been dumb fun in a Marvel way but it felt like the fear of making the gems too important caused them to be underpowered. That also seems to have been the fate of the Pandora system (remember that?) which was nerfed into pointlessness. This fear of high damage made SFxT the gentle hitting game that Spoon described. I remember hearing that some professional players enjoyed the initial version of SFxT because it encouraged conservative play and they could attack with endless block strings and win on time outs due to chip damage. It was safe, cautious and boring as hell. Small wonder SFxT never found an audience when playing the game was the equivalent of paying your bills on time and eating properly.
Can we count US-box cover MegaMan as one of these things done wrong? While I usually enjoy Ono's sense of humor, if you're gonna tease MegaMan and Pac-Man in a game, you should really add the actual MegaMan and Pac-Man, not a creepy dude doing a poor MM cosplay and Pac-Man riding a Mokujin-mecha.
quote:
I somehow blanked out those horrific costumes. Wait, Dudley was in the game? Wow, I don't remember anything about SFxT.
Understandable, as he was one of the DLC characters even though his files were already in-disc (supposedly unfinished and thus the reason for DLC, but still...).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(8):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Thu 29 Nov 09:16:
quote:
Can we count US-box cover MegaMan as one of these things done wrong? While I usually enjoy Ono's sense of humor, if you're gonna tease MegaMan and Pac-Man in a game, you should really add the actual MegaMan and Pac-Man, not a creepy dude doing a poor MM cosplay and Pac-Man riding a Mokujin-mecha.
Don't forget that Mega Man and Pac-Man were PS3 permanent exclusives, because Capcom sold their presence to Sony as a platform exclusive.
Even though Mega Man and Pac-Man were found to be on the 360 disc, along with the other DLC characters.
Capcom also cut the ability to mix local and online players in a match from the Xbox 360 version, even though they advertised the game as having it and included it in the game's manual. When people complained, Capcom claimed that Xbox Live didn't allow it. When people then pointed out that a number of Xbox 360 games already did exactly that, Capcom then said that they had to cut the mode from the 360 due to time and resource issues.
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But how would Dhalsim or -heaven help us- Menat handle in Tekken? When I picture the problems that would arise from trying to cram the SF cast into Tekken I think of how Ryu handles in Marvel or Smash games; his signature attacks are there so you know it's him but the way those specials behave and everything else about him has been changed to fit the non-SF engine.
Dhalsim honestly shouldn't be a problem. While they may not be the focus of Tekken as a series, it does have projectiles, teleports, limited flight, and even dive kicks. That leaves Dhalsim's extending limbs as the item without an existing Tekken counterpart.
However, you must consider how Dhalsim's limbs function. They give him exceptional range, but they also similarly increase his vulnerable area. A fast projectile could do the same thing as Dhalsim's limbs, without the added vulnerability. Dhalsim fits in SF2 because most of the roster has no projectiles, and the projectiles that are present travel slower than Dhalsim's strikes.
(Quick side note: I feel this became a matter in Dhalsim's later appearance even by Capcom. More characters came along with projectiles, some characters received faster projectiles, and some characters received longer range physical strikes. All of this ate into Dhalsim's niche, and I honestly think Dhalsim has somewhat floundered because of it.)
Tekken might not be projectile heavy, but Tekken players have dealt with full screen fast projectiles since Tekken 2. Tekken 2 had Devil/Angel's rage inducing laser beams. Tekken 3 had True Ogre's fire breath, which was even designed to hit those who sidestepped. While those were bosses, the games had them, players learned to deal with them, and future titles would also visit the concepts.
Sure, Dhalsim can punch across the screen. He can also get his fists punched or grabbed, potentially leading to eating an ugly combo. Meanwhile, Kazumi can more safely get a similar effect summoning tigers. On the off chance that Dhalsim still turned out to be too strong, you could slow his strikes a bit, or put more of a telegraph at the start, without "breaking" the character.
Though the Tekken 7 character that for some reason makes me think the most of Dhalsim is probably Alisa. Alisa has fast dive kicks, has a form that extends her "punch" range by adding saw blades to her arms, has a few moves where she fires her fists as rocket punches, and uses her head like a more limited version of Menat's orb.
Menat is a trickier matter, as her orb acts more like a controlled permanent projectile, extending her range without making her more vulnerable. A balancing factor is, as always, Tekken sidesteps. A side step not only takes you out of the path of the orb, it also takes you out of the return path. It might actually be interesting to see how that would develop in matches though, as the Menat player could also sidestep to try to get the opponent back between her and the orb, which could lead to some nasty surprises for careless or forgetful players.
[this message was edited by Baines on Thu 29 Nov 09:16] |
| | "Re(9):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Thu 29 Nov 14:36:
quote:
But how would Dhalsim or -heaven help us- Menat handle in Tekken? When I picture the problems that would arise from trying to cram the SF cast into Tekken I think of how Ryu handles in Marvel or Smash games; his signature attacks are there so you know it's him but the way those specials behave and everything else about him has been changed to fit the non-SF engine.
Dhalsim honestly shouldn't be a problem. While they may not be the focus of Tekken as a series, it does have projectiles, teleports, limited flight, and even dive kicks. That leaves Dhalsim's extending limbs as the item without an existing Tekken counterpart.
However, you must consider how Dhalsim's limbs function. They give him exceptional range, but they also similarly increase his vulnerable area. A fast projectile could do the same thing as Dhalsim's limbs, without the added vulnerability. Dhalsim fits in SF2 because most of the roster has no projectiles, and the projectiles that are present travel slower than Dhalsim's strikes.
(Quick side note: I feel this became a matter in Dhalsim's later appearance even by Capcom. More characters came along with projectiles, some characters received faster projectiles, and some characters received longer range physical strikes. All of this ate into Dhalsim's niche, and I honestly think Dhalsim has somewhat floundered because of it.)
Tekken might not be projectile heavy, but Tekken players have dealt with full screen fast projectiles since Tekken 2. Tekken 2 had Devil/Angel's rage inducing laser beams. Tekken 3 had True Ogre's fire breath, which was even designed to hit those who sidestepped. While those were bosses, the games had them, players learned to deal with them, and future titles would also visit the concepts.
Sure, Dhalsim can punch across the screen. He can also get his fists punched or grabbed, potentially leading to eating an ugly combo. Meanwhile, Kazumi can more safely get a similar effect summoning tigers. On the off chance that Dhalsim still turned out to be too strong, you could slow his strikes a bit, or put more of a telegraph at the start, without "breaking" the character.
Though the Tekken 7 character that for some reason makes me think the most of Dhalsim is probably Alisa. Alisa has fast dive kicks, has a form that extends her "punch" range by adding saw blades to her arms, has a few moves where she fires her fists as rocket punches, and uses her head like a more limited version of Menat's orb.
Menat is a trickier matter, as her orb acts more like a controlled permanent projectile, extending her range without making her more vulnerable. A balancing factor is, as always, Tekken sidesteps. A side step not only takes you out of the path of the orb, it also takes you out of the return path. It might actually be interesting to see how that would develop in matches though, as the Menat player could also sidestep to try to get the opponent back between her and the orb, which could lead to some nasty surprises for careless or forgetful players.
Don't forget Noctis when it comes to characters fighting at weirdly long ranges!
Noctis also has a slide, a move where he performs a long ranged attack from a jump, long range circular moves, long range horizontal moves, and awkward moves up close!
I think the existence of Noctis in Tekken 7, not to mention both how playable he is while also not completely ruining the game, means Dhalsim is quite possible in Tekken. Not only that, Yoshimitsu and the Ravens provide a guide not only on teleports in Tekken, but on attacks descending from teleports that put the character into the air!
I agree Menat's controllable projectile would be a huge headache in Tekken. One of the things I learned about in my whirlwind introduction to "serious" Tekken in the past year or so is the significance of attacks from the side or the back. In 2D fighting games, there's a "turning around" animation, but in most 2D fighting games it can be interrupted at any time instantly by blocking and cases where this is not true are highly exceptional. In Tekken, it universally takes time for characters to turn around in order to block, which leads to situations where strings which are not combos normally become combos. I think trying to account for this element of Tekken with Menat's controllable orb will be an absolute nightmare, because that is truly unlike anything in Tekken!
[this message was edited by Spoon on Thu 29 Nov 15:20] |
| | "Re(9):Street Fighter X Tekken is $6 on Steam" , posted Thu 29 Nov 23:22
quote:
Don't forget that Mega Man and Pac-Man were PS3 permanent exclusives, because Capcom sold their presence to Sony as a platform exclusive.
Even though Mega Man and Pac-Man were found to be on the 360 disc, along with the other DLC characters.
Capcom also cut the ability to mix local and online players in a match from the Xbox 360 version, even though they advertised the game as having it and included it in the game's manual. When people complained, Capcom claimed that Xbox Live didn't allow it. When people then pointed out that a number of Xbox 360 games already did exactly that, Capcom then said that they had to cut the mode from the 360 due to time and resource issues.
Normally, I'd consider outrageous to have some characters only in one console, especially if their data were already on the disc... but considering how Mega Man and Pac-Man turned out, I guess it wasn't a huge loss to the 360 owners (actually, it wasn't a loss at all).
The lack of ability to mix local and online players, though... yeah, now that's a painful loss.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: BadoorSNK(forPSVITA:BadoorUSA)
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| "Re(1):Team Spooky documentary" , posted Mon 3 Dec 16:17:
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I haven't watched it yet, but it should be real good!
Team Spooky is a tournament streaming thing run by the eponymous Spooky, who is absolutely the authority on fighting game streaming in North America on account of being the earliest and still-going streamer of them!
It's a really well-made documentary. I heard of spooky before but I wasn't familiar with him exactly. After watching it I realized that I kinda have a connection with spooky since over the last year I've been trying to do a lot more with fighting game streams, whether for weekly locals, random netplay, organized weekly exhibitions, or the seasonal tournament that I travel to, and in spooky I found an inspiration.
It's also interesting that the choice of subject for this documentary about fighting games is not a top player or a fighting game developer or commentator or tournament organizer, but a streamer, someone whose whole job is often behind the scenes, to kinda showcase and elevate everyone else that would constitute part of the FGC to the world in a sense.
The other takeaway from this documentary is I guess youtube and streaming has been a thing for so long now that it deems needing of preservation or archiving, or at least inscribing it in some historical way. Time goes by so fast huh.
http://100daysofmegashock.wordpress.com/
http://badoorsnk.wordpress.com/
pretzelmotion.com
[this message was edited by badoor on Mon 3 Dec 16:26] |
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| "Re(1):Capcom Power Stone All Stars - random t" , posted Thu 6 Dec 00:54:
quote:
Just a random thought but if Capcom decides to do any kind of All Stars game, I think it should be done as a fighting game using the Power Stone engine. Fun, whacky, and fits in quite well. That way we get a new power stone game with more characters from everyone. Knock out Smash Bros. Out the park lol.
I would love it, but for some reason the Power Stone formula never caught on. The last game to try it was TMNT Mutant Melee which was in 2005. I know people compared that one Marvel game (Imperfects), but that was blah.
quote:
That was an interesting documentary, thanks.
It's funny, I've known of Spooky's work for years so it's hard to remember that a service that has a worldwide audience is being run out of one guy's apartment. There can't be much money in fighting games -as the laughably sad earnings on Capcom's Pro Tour page proves- so it's amazing to realize that the scene is being held together by a few individuals who consider it a calling.
In other news, the King of Iron Fists is a panda. Go figure.
Speaking of King of Iron Fist, the three remaining Tekken 7 DLC fighters (not counting the Walking Dead dude) are a musclehead, a feline man and... a youtuber?
I wonder what Michelle thinks about her daughter's new job.
Speaking of Tekken 7 DLC. Negan does not look good. People have already compared him to Jason from MKX and I was thinking "stiff Netherealm animations" when I saw him too. I hope he improves though.
[this message was edited by GekigangerV on Thu 6 Dec 01:14] |
| | "Re(7):Mortal Kombat All Stars - random t" , posted Sat 8 Dec 04:22
quote:
They already called the previous one "X", roman numeral for 10, so this one it's 11.
But we could say that if they were really coherent this one should have been called XI.
Yeah, but I thought they used the "X" exactly because it left ambiguous whether the "X" meant "10" or something else (I was going to mention a game that used this trick, but that would indicate a huge spoiler to its plot...).
Anyway, I read a crazy theory online regarding this next MK, with some guy guessing the Variations system will remain - with a twist: the game story would go full "Crisis on Infinite Earths" and rather than just representing gameplay changes for the same character (...should I spell "kharakter" in this case?), each variation would represent their version from a different universe.
Honestly, I don't know if that's a good idea plot-wise, as the story could become very messy (even for MK standards). Gameplay-wise, it could work as a way to bring people that are supposed to be either dead or retired in the current continuity. But then again, when has death or old age ever prevented a MK character from returning?
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| "Re(1): You never saw it coming..." , posted Sat 8 Dec 05:47
quote:
Just a random thought but if Capcom decides to do any kind of All Stars game, I think it should be done as a fighting game using the Power Stone engine. Fun, whacky, and fits in quite well. That way we get a new power stone game with more characters from everyone. Knock out Smash Bros. Out the park lol.
I think Smash Bros. would be hard to knock out at is point. Even mechanically speaking, Smash has sort of evolved to the point where there's now an SF3rdStrike parry system. Smash is basically it's own animal and its a shame people still knock on it as being just a mere party game.
So far we have Ryu, Ken, a camping tactic Guile, and an old school Akira from Virtual Fighter. All it just needs is an SNK rep (Ryo, Terry, or freakin' Geese) and we have CvS all over again. Or maybe Jin or Heiachi as a DLC fighters.
Speaking of DLC... Seems like Atlus formally has a rep in the form of a Persona 5 character. Of course it would make more sense if Jack Frost was that rep instead but I guess Persona is just more universally recognized. Now if only this means Etrian Odyssey cameos/music...
Power Stone could probably still be revived, though that really depends how would Capcom feel if Sega did an AGES port of the game.
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| | "Re(5):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 05:06
quote:
Arc has been trying to make “accessible” fighters ever since their Persona game. I think they’ve made some strides, although I feel like they tend to lean heavily on lots of story sequences between pockets of gameplay. I don’t know how DBZ single player story mode was... but I wish they could do high quality stuff like MK or even Tekken.
I think that Persona was mechanically a very interesting game.
The accessibility was not mere training wheels you were supposed to grow out of once you've reach "acceptable levels of skill", which always comes off as a bit insulting (for example, the autocombo system of MvCI). In Persona, and to a certain extend, the Blazblue crossover, "accessibility" simply meant that you didn't have to spend ages in training mode merely to physically learn how to perform certain moves or complicated cancels. Everything was easy to perform, the burden was not on the physical skills of the players (like the dreaded 1-frame links of SF4), but on their memory, reaction, and reading skills (there was a lot of elements to keep in mind, and good players knew which and when to use them).
They feel like an evolution of MvC3, and what MvCI should have been in terms of accessibility (I dislike DBF with passion, though. I think DBF should have been a mix between Persona and Arcana Hearts, instead of the mess it ended up being)(Arcana Heart's systems and movement are fantastic).
In a way, Persona and Cross-tag are the ArcSys evolution of Capcom's Justice Gakuen, which was already doing the "let's lower the execution level to the lowest bar possible because that's really the least fun part of fighting games" 20 years ago. You still need to know what's punishable and how, you still need to understand how the systems play on each other, you still need to learn characters in order to create interesting combos... It's just that the game is easy to get into. It's natural.
I don't understand how Capcom managed to un-learn the lessons of Justice Gakuen and made the absurdly beginner-unfriendly game that was SFxT. Punishing beginners for using beginner-friendly systems? What could go wrong.
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| "Re(6):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 08:13
quote:
In Persona, and to a certain extend, the Blazblue crossover, "accessibility" simply meant that you didn't have to spend ages in training mode merely to physically learn how to perform certain moves or complicated cancels. Everything was easy to perform, the burden was not on the physical skills of the players (like the dreaded 1-frame links of SF4), but on their memory, reaction, and reading skills (there was a lot of elements to keep in mind, and good players knew which and when to use them).
They feel like an evolution of MvC3, and what MvCI should have been in terms of accessibility (I dislike DBF with passion, though. I think DBF should have been a mix between Persona and Arcana Hearts, instead of the mess it ended up being)(Arcana Heart's systems and movement are fantastic).
I agree with the notion that the physical skills are de-emphasized. I still think the core responsibility to teach the player how to play the game is glossed over in Persona. I remember that they simply had super easy modes where you could tap your way through the short gameplay sequences to get to the story bits. I think I misinterpreted the type of accessibility you meant. :)
With fighting game creators trying to nurture e-sports, it's a tricky balance between creating accessibility but allowing for a skill gap. I've heard interviews with high level Street Fighter 5 players that miss SF4 1-f links and some of the high skill execution... they say that playing at high level is not as difficult as before. However Capcom specifically removed those high execution barriers to allow more people to compete. It's tough to please everyone.
quote:
In a way, Persona and Cross-tag are the ArcSys evolution of Capcom's Justice Gakuen, which was already doing the "let's lower the execution level to the lowest bar possible because that's really the least fun part of fighting games" 20 years ago. You still need to know what's punishable and how, you still need to understand how the systems play on each other, you still need to learn characters in order to create interesting combos... It's just that the game is easy to get into. It's natural.
I don't understand how Capcom managed to un-learn the lessons of Justice Gakuen and made the absurdly beginner-unfriendly game that was SFxT. Punishing beginners for using beginner-friendly systems? What could go wrong.
Sorry in advance, this got a little long...
I think the reason for Capcom's shift is the push pull between being a competitive game vs a casual game. Persona is a good example of a game that competitive Japanese players rejected, as far as I know. I only know of casual tournaments. My guess is it's because it's too simple... not enough under the hood? When they did the expansion and added a bunch of new systems it seemed to get a lot more popular. This is all just my impression and I might be wrong, though.
Overall, I believe this is a general "problem" with fighting games when compared to MOBAs or shooters like Overwatch or Fortnite:
To be good at fighting games you need:
- Reflex, timing, motor execution -> Can I execute this 1 frame link?
- Yomi -> Can I read the opponent's move and counter it?
- General Knowledge -> Do I have advantage after I block this move?
- Limited Management -> Do I have enough meter to do this attack?
- Limited Situational Awareness -> Am I close enough to the wall to do this combo?
- Limited Strategy -> What character do I pick?
With a Moba, the reflex/timing is much lower, but the management, situational awareness and strategy components have way more depth. Plus you have the team elements, AI on the battlefield, etc. That's why you can keep the execution pretty simple, but still have a vast skill gap between top players and new players. And you can have characters with crazy execution for people who enjoy that.
So how do you evolve fighting games to be more interesting for the existing audience? To keep it a "pure" fighting game, you only have a few knobs to adjust: motor execution, yomi, knowledge. If you add lots of other things, it begins to resemble something other than the 1v1 fighting experience we all love. And by turning down the motor skill level to attract new players, you turn off existing players that enjoyed being one of the few able to consistently execute those links.
Anyway, it's a hard problem... :)
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(7):Justice Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 11:02
Great sub-thread, and welcome back, Ktall!
quote:
I don't understand how Capcom managed to un-learn the lessons of Justice Gakuen
SOUNDS LIKE SOME NAUGHTY DESIGNERS NEED A LITTLE AFTER SCHOOL TUTORING
quote:
So how do you evolve fighting games to be more interesting for the existing audience?
If the random non-fighting game people I encounter who are excited about Soul Calibur 6 are any indication, it's all about dress-up for your characters! Which is another way of saying Justice Gakuen's dating sim, Tobal 2 quest mode, every Namco home release, Not SFV Vanilla, etc.
But since both Tekken and 2D games have come up here, it reminds me of a more serious answer to this question on a technical level: you don't need auto-combos to make fighting games fun for casuals or beginners. Mostly, you just need, well, moves to be come out at all! The terrible secret is that 3D fighters will always be more accessible than 2D fighters because even if you suck in Tekken or Soul Calibur, you can still have fun hitting an arrow key and an attack button and get a special move to come out. In contrast, Street Fighter when you can't throw hadoukens isn't much fun for the teacher OR the student.
...2D fighters might be kind of like racquet sports, which are extremely un-fun at beginner level when you can't get the ball over the net. Tekken is the soccer of fighting games.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(7):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 11:16:
Welcome back KTallguy! Hope things have been good for you.
Just a note, Persona often gets cited as an easy to play game, which is true on the surface, but the game was pretty complex and its original installment was well accepted by competitive players. It might've not been picked up too much by the more well-known stream channels/tournaments in Japan, but that's because players featured at them were usually just Street Fighter players and couldn't play other titles well. I recall how low-level the KOF tournament play at Godsgarden were back then.
Persona in particular was a very lesson-reminding experience for myself. I recall playing the game on release at an arcade, and while having beginner friendly mechanics like combos that come out with just button mashing is a nice idea, it obviously means that experienced fighting game players can also use them. It's not really a way to close down the level gap. It was especially so for Persona since the button mashing combos were actually good as starters to branch out to more damaging combos, and even if not doing so, just mashing off the combo from start to finish had its merits because it generally would push the opponent near the corner and also reward considerable meter.
However, this method of making games easier to play for beginners was probably done right by Arc System Works. It's not about closing the player level gap, but allowing beginners to enjoy the more awesome things in a fighting game with someone of their same level.
[this message was edited by Professor on Mon 17 Dec 11:52] |
| | "Re(7):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 11:53
quote:
grinding execution and accessibility
It's definitely a tough challenge, and one which 1v1 fighting games definitely have a lot to struggle with because of the nature of the game. Even in a game which seems seems as simple as soccer-with-rigidbody-physics (e.g. Rocket League), it's a game which can ask an enormous amount of yomi, manual execution, and team coordination.
Smash Bros. has done a good job of this overall by having a bunch of things which can be exploited for skillful play and a bunch of things which make life easier for less fluent players. For instance, special moves are very easy to perform in Smash so that aspect of execution is eliminated as a barrier, but the special being easy to do doesn't mean that combos are easy to do, or that the special is easy to hit the opponent with, or that the special move is safe from counter-attack. On top of that, the game has a flexible set of systems which skillful players that do have a high level of manual skill can make use of for substantial advantages: the whole sequence of short hop fast fall laser is just rapidly using small jump, fast fall, and the B button in sequence! There's no obtuse "link timing" or invocation of unintuitive cancelling mechanics, glitches, etc. There is definitely such a thing as successful and unsuccessful execution of this technique though, and not being able to make use of this technique is definitely a competitive disadvantage if you are at a certain level of competition (which I am DEFINITELY not at!).
Smash characters also have a very small moveset compared to the average fighting game, though the ability to combine those attacks with the high amount of movement control the game offers compared to other fighting games makes it feel like you can do a lot with the characters, nevermind their interaction with different terrain!
Tekken has some of these key things, but swings in the opposite direction in others. In Tekken, having great handspeed and execution gives you increased movement capability (you can literally move backwards or forwards faster, for instance!), even if you are using the poor man's backdash-sidestep-backdash. Many moves are done simply by holding a direction and slamming out the button sequence... but some moves demand an incredibly strict input, and an enormous number of moves can only be done as part of some fixed string, many of which cannot be intuitively discovered. For many characters, combo execution is quite lenient in terms of timing... but understanding the combo states is profoundly unintuitive.
I think Smash did a thing that was very daring for a 2D fighting game that has "ground" (i.e. not one of the flying around ones) in choosing to not have an idea of moves that can only be blocked "high" or "low". There's only "did the move contact the shield bubble, y/n". The high/low game is the source of a tremendous amount of the intricacy of many fighting games 2D and 3D, but Smash decided not to have it, and being free of that gave them a lot more freedom in terms of stage design as well as easing one of the player burdens. Having block not tied to a "towards" or "away" direction was also vital to making the game not be a mess when there are more than 2 players. You can see how Guilty Gear Isuka tried to grapple with this problem by having a "turn around" button, but it was ultimately very cumbersome.
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| | "Re(8):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 13:14:
quote:
Smash Bros. has done a good job of this overall by having a bunch of things which can be exploited for skillful play and a bunch of things which make life easier for less fluent players.
I'd say that Smash is helped greatly by its party mode mentality.
Yes, competitive 1v1 stock-based no-items Smash is a massive thing, but the main mode of Smash is still "party brawler". Anyone can play around with friends. Differences in skill levels smooth out a bit when you have three or more players, and people can gang up on the leader. Items bring a level of chaos. Etc.
And there are so many other things to do in Smash. Home run challenge, adventure, all-star, stage editor, sub-space emissary, etc.
Basically, regardless of your skill level, there is plenty you can do in Smash without ever feeling frustrated. That's a big difference from other fighting games, which tend to rely entirely on straight 1v1 matches and maybe standards like arcade or survival. When you are a beginner in the average fighter, there just isn't as much to do to have fun. Even if you are a middling player, you can find the average fighter either offers boredom or crushing defeat.
It also helps if these extra modes stay attached to the gameplay. Home-run challenge in Smash taught people to workshop combos in general, as well as to try to figure out what tricks will accumulate maximum damage. Stuff like Sub-Space Emissary still had you playing with your regular Smash moveset. This is something I feel DreamFactory got wrong with Ehrgeiz, when they made Quest mode divorced from the regular fighting engine. This is also where Tekken fails with modes like Tekken Bowling.
If people can continue to find entertainment, then they'll keep playing. If that continued entertainment also helps them improve, then they'll improve. If people feel overwhelmed by complicated systems, or just getting trashed constantly online, or getting trashed by garbage AI in solo modes, and that is all they have, then many will just quit.
[this message was edited by Baines on Mon 17 Dec 13:16] |
| PSN: Hunter-KT
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| "Re(9):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Mon 17 Dec 23:05
quote:
If the random non-fighting game people I encounter who are excited about Soul Calibur 6 are any indication, it's all about dress-up for your characters! Which is another way of saying Justice Gakuen's dating sim, Tobal 2 quest mode, every Namco home release, Not SFV Vanilla, etc.
It's a non-serious answer but at the same time, player expression is hugely important, and often overlooked. It turns the narrative from the game's story to my story, even if my story is about my Bryan dressed like Freddy Kruger.
quote:
Welcome back KTallguy! Hope things have been good for you.
Thanks Professor! I'm back in Tokyo on a permanent basis, so we should get lunch :)
quote:
However, this method of making games easier to play for beginners was probably done right by Arc System Works. It's not about closing the player level gap, but allowing beginners to enjoy the more awesome things in a fighting game with someone of their same level.
I agree with this, really it's about making cool shit happen on screen to keep the player engaged. I do agree with Maou that, in general, 3D fighters let you see cool shit with little input. Persona and other recent Arc fighters also have that hit a button over and over to see cool shit. I just wish there was a smoother transition between hit one button repeatedly and all the rest of the more difficult input challenges.
quote:
Spoon's great post
Definitely agree with your assessment of Smash... there are very few special states, and the ones that exist are called out clearly (although I find the bubbles ugly, they are clear). And the lack of high-low-(mid) is also clear.
Tekken has all sorts of unclear states, slam moves, wall hits, etc. Sometimes it's hard to tell if something is mid or high, by design. Regarding input stuff, I wish that they'd bring back the "beginner, medium, advanced" descriptors for characters, although most people like to ignore things like that. But I think if you want a grassroots community, you need a few execution heavy characters to keep players engaged.
quote:
Basically, regardless of your skill level, there is plenty you can do in Smash without ever feeling frustrated...Stuff like Sub-Space Emissary still had you playing with your regular Smash moveset. This is something I feel DreamFactory got wrong with Ehrgeiz, when they made Quest mode divorced from the regular fighting engine. This is also where Tekken fails with modes like Tekken Bowling.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Baines. I enjoy single player Smash content almost as much as playing Multiplayer, and the fact that it's not some separate side game is important. This year's SP content is even more match focused, and feels more connected to the single player experience.
I still think there's some ground to cover in teaching the player basics. How do you make a fun experience revolving around teaching the player to block? Throw? etc. A lot of the new Smash's matches are sight gags or funny combinations, rather than teaching moments. But still very entertaining.
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| | "Re(10):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Tue 18 Dec 00:14
quote:
A lot of the new Smash's matches are sight gags or funny combinations, rather than teaching moments. But still very entertaining.
As long as it is entertaining, it still has some worth as a one-off event. And you can throw a bunch of such things into a game.
That, for me, is leagues better than fighting game "staples" like Trials and Survival.
I understand the theory behind Trials. In theory they teach players combos. But in reality... Players won't use most of the combos that they encounter in Trials. Worse, half of the Trials combos might get broken if the game received a comprehensive balance patch anyway. As well, the purpose of Trials is for you to mechanically learn the desired single rote solution. You aren't rewarded for problem solving or innovation, it is just dry learning. (Being innovative, finding alternative solutions, actually circumvents the purpose of Trials.) And most trial modes aren't even good at teaching the desired single rote solution, not even bothering to explain just how a person's timing is off.
As for survival... My feeling towards survival modes is perhaps best described as somewhere between hatred and loathing. Survival modes are the go-to mechanic when you can't even be bothered to pretend you care.
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| | "Re(10):Granblue Fantasy coming next year" , posted Tue 18 Dec 02:46
quote:
I still think there's some ground to cover in teaching the player basics. How do you make a fun experience revolving around teaching the player to block? Throw? etc. A lot of the new Smash's matches are sight gags or funny combinations, rather than teaching moments. But still very entertaining.
The typical fighting game attempt is some basic tutorial. Here's an attack. Block it X times. Here's a low attack. Block it X times. Here's an overhead. Block it X times. Here's a mix of all three. Block them X times.
Beginners struggle through and never touch it again. Experienced players run through it and never touch it again.
My approach would be to turn it into a challenge mode or an event.
Example Event: "Delaying Action": Ken has been brainwashed. Your allies are working to destroy the machine, but you must keep Ken occupied in the mean time, without hurting him. Your attacks are disabled. You might have to remain within a limited area of the screen (to prevent completely running away). How long can you go without taking (non-chip) damage? This could be designed so that you can take damage (getting hit isn't an automatic failure), but you score better if you don't.
You could of course change the "story" or even the mechanics. Maybe Ken is training his son, explaining why you can't hit him. Or maybe it is just a story-less challenge.
If you worry that skilled players will find it too easy to come back, then ramp up the difficulty over time, even if it involves cheating. Have random fireballs start flying across the screen after 30 seconds, or some other character assisting. You could give the attacker gradual speed buffs, but you want to be careful about stuff like that, as you don't want to "teach" players the wrong attack speeds.
Now you have something at least somewhat interesting that tests blocking (and some degree of evasion) that isn't as dry as a tutorial. Since it is a scored event, potentially open-ended, you even have something that more skilled players might play a few times just to show off their high scores.
You can take this further with some fancy "adventure" mode (like Soul Calibur or Castlevania Judgment or similar), expanding this defense-focused event into an encounterable mission type.
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| | "Re(3):Re(10):Granblue Fantasy coming next yea" , posted Tue 18 Dec 10:14
quote:
Just like loona's analysis of how SFV Vanilla could be fixed along the lines of FFXIV, I feel like every fighting game designer should be listening to Baines' ideas here! I hate tutorial mode but would totally play an Edutainment Mode.
The closest I ever saw to this were the Soul Calibur 1 and 2 quest mode missions where they would alter the rules in some way (super-easy ring-outs, electrified wall, 25% gravity, can only do damage via throws, etc.) to get you thinking. Maybe this has continued.
There's a stupidly hard mission in the new Smash's World of Light mode where two giant ROBs who both have permanent Metal status are super aggressive with you, and it's a Stamina (i.e. life depletion rather than ring-out-only) match, AND they start the match with rocket launchers. I absolutely think this mission will be really frustrating for a lot of people, but I found that I really enjoyed trying to devise a strategy to defeat them because it forced me to examine all the characters as well as try to understand what were the key problems I was having. Ultimately I defeated them using Wii Fit Trainer, because she can duck under their laser beam and rockets as well as charge her down Smash while being below them. But I tried using Kirby for a similar reason as well as his down+B rock smash, I tried using Lucario (because he gets stronger as he gets hurt and has a counter special), I tried using Captain Falcon with all sorts of buffs to his Falcon Punch (failed miserably!), and more!
I somewhat dislike fights which are meant to be "fair" with the CPU in a game like this because it feels like when I'm winning I'm just taking advantage of failings in the AI, or the AI being dumb on purpose. When the fight is a bit unfair inherently (e.g. Andy with his 4 tiny Snakes wtf that fight), taking advantage doesn't feel "bad" so much as just part of the game, because the fight would be impossible if not for those failings.
I have yet to play Smash Ultimate against another human being, but I feel like I'm having plenty of fun, so clearly they've done a lot right!
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| PSN: DefensorVirtuoso
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| "Re(2):Vampire Killer x Fighting" , posted Sun 6 Jan 00:43
I'm a little troubled with Omen of Sorrow.
In one hand, this game was developed in my country Chile, and it's arguably our biggest game 100% developed here so I kinda want to support it (We had things like rock of ages which although kinda cool is very forgetable, and also we developed Dorito's Crash Course, which I swear to god must be the best exclusive in the XBOX 360 catalogue, although I don't consider it 100% chilean because the studio was owned from a canadian company) and also is a fighting game! something that I always end up supporting because the genre is relatively niche compared to some other kind of games.
But my problem is, that the game is very ugly, like someone said, is very gritty and muddy for the sake of it, and the models are not very good to be honest, to top all of this, the game was price at $50 dollars here, and the game definitely doesn't look like something from that price entry, even when I downloaded the demo I thought on buying it at $20 at best, but didn't happen.
Some friends who know the game devs told me that they are true fighting game fans and that they took inspiration on games like melty blood of all things to develop this game, but sadly, I don't really feel like spending money on it
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(1):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Wed 9 Jan 11:40:
Worth remembering too that SFV Arcade Edition: Actual Arcade Edition isn't even out yet, no one plays on PC, and there are about 7 million PS4s in Japan. That's, uh...about as many as the Switch, in more than twice the time. E-sports aren't big (Prof pointed out some really interesting stuff about just how few people besides Daigo can make a living), so that's not helping attendance. So SFV is certainly in no position to lead on EVO Registration!
But yes, something is up beyond that, looking at how the numbers for Tekken and other have fallen. MMCafe delivered the news on why Tougeki fell apart, but what's the story on EVO? I'm interested!
Edit: oh yeah, they were doing this in Fukuoka! Fukuoka rules, but no one's going to just wander over to Fukuoka, it's way to out of the way. Also, the internet says their advertising and advance info was, ah, not up to snuff.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 9 Jan 11:44] |
| PSN: DefensorVirtuoso
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| "Re(2):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Thu 10 Jan 05:12
quote:
Worth remembering too that SFV Arcade Edition: Actual Arcade Edition isn't even out yet, no one plays on PC, and there are about 7 million PS4s in Japan. That's, uh...about as many as the Switch, in more than twice the time. E-sports aren't big (Prof pointed out some really interesting stuff about just how few people besides Daigo can make a living), so that's not helping attendance. So SFV is certainly in no position to lead on EVO Registration!
But yes, something is up beyond that, looking at how the numbers for Tekken and other have fallen. MMCafe delivered the news on why Tougeki fell apart, but what's the story on EVO? I'm interested!
Edit: oh yeah, they were doing this in Fukuoka! Fukuoka rules, but no one's going to just wander over to Fukuoka, it's way to out of the way. Also, the internet says their advertising and advance info was, ah, not up to snuff.
Something that has caught my attention lately is watching some videos from a twitter account that show some weekly tournaments from Street Fighter V in Japan, and one of the things that has caught my attention is how some players look very old. But not only their faces and gray hair, but also on how they dress, one of them looked like a textbook copy of a salary man, so is obvious that lots of those players have to work a regular job and that they play videogames as a hobby.
In my local game center something similar happens, the SFV tournaments only have people over 25 at best, with lots of people dressed up as regular office workers (including myself) playing at 8 pm in a weekday. In that regard, I fear that the traditional fighting game genre has a real problem of not being attractive to the younger people, who would rather people other games seriously. I had another view of Hi Score Girl after I asked myself what are the main characters doing in 2018? Do they still play fighting games? their children does? They dropped out the hobby after the "death" of 2d fighting games as a mainstream attraction?
In the other hand, I went to a Smash tournament, and there were lots of younger folks than you regular Street Fighter tournament, there was even a 9 years old kid playing, I have some envy of them
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| PSN: BadoorSNK(forPSVITA:BadoorUSA)
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| "Re(3):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Thu 10 Jan 19:52:
quote:
In the other hand, I went to a Smash tournament, and there were lots of younger folks than you regular Street Fighter tournament, there was even a 9 years old kid playing, I have some envy of them
Yeah that is I think a concern that FG developers need to tackle. And it's not that Smash is like "newer" than other FGs. Smash will have its 20th anniversary this year! Sure, Nintendo is Nintendo and they have a lot of avenues to get new kids to like their characters outside of Smash, but even looking at Smash Ultimate itself, it might be the game with the biggest amount of content that is not even seen in competitive play, or anyone who is only interested in spending time on it just for competitive goals, not just in FGs but any other competitive type of game. Stages, items, story mode content, assists, special enemies and stages within story mode, other party modes, the competitive stuff only amounts to a small fraction of the whole package, compare to for example launch SFV where the game basically only had the bare minimum that would only entice people who wanted to play competitively (basic netplay, local vs, and a basic training mode), enough to start that year's Capcom Pro Tour, and not much else.
This seems to have been forgotten by ppl but fighting games used to be a genre played by everyone, not just fighting game players.
http://100daysofmegashock.wordpress.com/
http://badoorsnk.wordpress.com/
pretzelmotion.com
[this message was edited by badoor on Thu 10 Jan 19:53] |
| | "Re(5):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Thu 10 Jan 20:22
quote:
On a slightly related note, shoryuken.com has been awfully quiet for the entirety of 2019 so far. They usually update every day but their last news update happened on December 31st. Could the spectre of last year's site closure be returning?
It's quite odd that none of the editors are posting up anything. This might be the perfect opportunity for a fighting game enthousist to launch an alternative site like Reppuken.com or something. 
That reminds me; MMCafe hasn't been updated for a while but it will continue to get new content for sure. But given that the importance of news sites is starting to fall, probably in a different direction.
quote:
Something that has caught my attention lately is watching some videos from a twitter account that show some weekly tournaments from Street Fighter V in Japan, and one of the things that has caught my attention is how some players look very old.
It's been like that for a while with Street Fighter in general, and when we're talking about things in the competitive scene, it's generally like that for other titles too. Dengeki was probably the game that had the youngest base of competitive players, given that their original characters are from light novels.
Keep in mind though that the competitive scene isn't really nessesarily the big picture when it comes to who's actually playing or buying the games. For example, KOF has a pretty huge working age female player base but they don't hit the competitive scene. Blazblue, I've seen schoolgirls playing it in the early hours at arcades, back then the franchise was still new.
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| "Re(6):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Fri 11 Jan 03:28
quote:
On a slightly related note, shoryuken.com has been awfully quiet for the entirety of 2019 so far. They usually update every day but their last news update happened on December 31st. Could the spectre of last year's site closure be returning?
It's quite odd that none of the editors are posting up anything. This might be the perfect opportunity for a fighting game enthousist to launch an alternative site like Reppuken.com or something.
That reminds me; MMCafe hasn't been updated for a while but it will continue to get new content for sure. But given that the importance of news sites is starting to fall, probably in a different direction.
Something that has caught my attention lately is watching some videos from a twitter account that show some weekly tournaments from Street Fighter V in Japan, and one of the things that has caught my attention is how some players look very old.
It's been like that for a while with Street Fighter in general, and when we're talking about things in the competitive scene, it's generally like that for other titles too. Dengeki was probably the game that had the youngest base of competitive players, given that their original characters are from light novels.
Keep in mind though that the competitive scene isn't really nessesarily the big picture when it comes to who's actually playing or buying the games. For example, KOF has a pretty huge working age female player base but they don't hit the
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I think that more than the actual competitive scene, the thing that worries more are the casual fans who engage with it, other games like MOBAS or BR definitely have a larger pool of young people who are engaged with it, while I feel that FG are doing a terrible job at introducing younger players to this.
Now, I'm sure that in 10 more years a game like LOL would probably not be attractive to kids like it was at its peak, so I guess that in FG case we are living a situation where the game stopped being the "it" thing to play a long time ago, I guess that the last injection of young players was with SFIV that saw a considerable increse in the playerbase.
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| PSN: DefensorVirtuoso
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| "Re(7):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Fri 11 Jan 05:24
quote:
It's quite odd that none of the editors are posting up anything. This might be the perfect opportunity for a fighting game enthousist to launch an alternative site like Reppuken.com or something.
I'm not really sure what SRK offers as a site anymore.
Long ago, it was the Capcom site, and the general fighting game site. You went there for news and articles and guides. It was the classy authority site. The forums had some of the more intelligent fighting game discussions available.
But today?
Does anyone go to SRK for articles or guides anymore? Everything today is on YouTube and Twitter. Much of SRK's front page news consists of a few sentences of text about an embedded YouTube video created by someone else. As for "classy authority", SRK let that ship sail when it started filling its front page with coverage of whatever random claims X-Kira made up that month, and vocally promoting X-Kira as an extremely reliable source even though X-Kira actually had a terrible track record.
And the forums? They suffered the same decline that all forums have suffered. The attempt to get people to move to Discord further hurt the forums, which were almost shut down at the beginning of last year.
At this point, I'm not really certain what SRK offers over a site like EventHubs. Not because EventHubs is a great site, but rather because SRK has declined so much. At least EventHubs more frequently posts new content.
I miss those articles where they explained why some games were great, those pieces of Samurai Shodown V and World Heroes Perfect are some of my favorites on the médium, also, SRK was good when you wanted to learn the results of an event
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| | "Re(9):Evo Japan Registration..." , posted Sat 12 Jan 06:55
quote:
It took two decades, but MMC has vanquished all its forum rivals at last! ...I'm joking of course. It feels lonely without SRK and Orochinagi.
I've been through discussions with Orochinagi's Gunsmith back when he was considering about his site-- he actually does kind of still update his site but not on the news end; it just doesn't have the same meaning as before because SNS has taken over. We're also starting to get gray hair and updating news is getting harder, especially with things moving faster. It's just so much easier to hit the RT/Retweet button.
Also nowadays with smartphones, you don't even realize that you're hopping to a web site. (You don't even see the website's domain name because the links are all abbreviated and the URL bar is hidden). My own conclusion is that ergo if you have a site, it's become more important to offer something that SNS can't.
If you think about it, a lot of what the sites offered in the past was links to press releases, translated press releases/interviews/game information, things made by other users (e.g. combo videos, match videos, etc.), reminders about tournaments or other upcoming events... a lot of these things are indeed now handled by SNS services like Twitter, where you can just follow the people or organizations posting that stuff in the first place.
One thing which Twitter does poorly is provide a place where somebody can have lengthy articles and organized access to them. A lot of "games journalism" in the past and present has been rebroadcasting of company press releases and opinion pieces (e.g. "game reviews"). Relatively few news sites did what could actually be considered reporting or journalism. In the case of translated stories/interviews/articles/etc., that's absolutely a valuable service, though, and one which people definitely can't reliably get simply by clicking on a bunch of tweets.
There is certainly an idea of "newsworthiness" which has always been present in any site offering whatever is purported to be "news", and the curation of that I think is an actually valuable thing. For instance, what news posts we do get at MMC are bound to be of particular interest to us here. Polygon originally started as a games-focused site with a lot of longform articles, but it has since expanded to giving substantial page space to television, movies, and other media which is not uniquely games-related. I think given the enormous quantity of stuff available to us over the internet, curation has significant value and usefulness that's easy to overlook, even as we do so incidentally just by what things we choose to follow or not follow on whatever SNS.
An always shocking thing is to try opening an incognito browser window and going on to youtube. You'll find that an enormous amount of the videos on the front page come from TV! Whether it's talk shows, or celebrity chefs, or TV news, it's so dominated by network television content that the "youtube" monikor seems odd!
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| "Re(2):DOA6 Beta" , posted Sun 13 Jan 07:39
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Just a quick note, open beta for Dead or Alive 6 is up on PSN right now. I think it's only open for 3 days? Check it out if you're interested!
Okay, I gave it a whirl. Quick thoughts:
It looks a lot like DoA5. Perhaps we are going to have to wait until DoA8 for the character models to be updated?
The new special effects, however, look nice. They are flashy and larger than life. I can't imagine the VF cast handling a guest starring role very well now that DoA is fully embracing its anime trappings.
Since DoA is now one onsen visit away from being an ecchi fighting anime all the outfits now have destructible elements. It's nothing major but the characters will lose their glasses or have their hood ripped off if they get hit by a super. (I know it's not called a super in-game but my terminology is also still in beta.)
While on the subject of destruction, the blood and grime is turned off in default settings. I tried it out and found it's a far cry from something like MK since the effects only happen when you get hit by a super. I won a match with Kasumi and because I didn't get hit by super she didn't have a hair out of place. But because I had hit my opponent Hayate with two supers he was incredibly dusty in spite of having fought in a clean ring. The game isn't nearly as rough as the initial trailers threatened.
Although I haven't 100% figured out what is going on I already like the new mechanics more than DoA5. The new side-step mechanic
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I agree with most of your points.
I don't know if its because of the art direction, but so far graphically I like this game more than Soul Calibur 6 and Tekken 7, who either abuse too much of chromatic aberration or look more blurry, meanwhile the old models don't disturb me that much, although I'm still someone who thinks that Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown is the best looking 3d fighter ever, even today.
Also, I like the presentation of the game, even though it doesn't appear in the beta, I love how the character selection screen use posters when you choose a fighter.
As the actual gameplay, I enjoyed it a lot, I don't know much about Dead or Alive compared to other fighters, but so far I liked the mechanics introduced in this game, the meters are much better than Soul Calibur 6 where even today I don't understand at all how do they work, which must be a first for me in fighting games, and like you said super are more quick to watch in DOA6, although I hate how the framerate gets destroyed while those happen
I think that this beta convinced me to buy it on the first day
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| | "Re(4):DOA6 Beta" , posted Mon 14 Jan 05:53
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Just curious, but has there been another 3D fighter that has used  /   for quick side-stepping instead of /? That worked so well in the DoA6 beta I'm surprised I'm having trouble coming up with other examples.
Tekken uses a single tap of up or down for sidestep, and a double-tap-and-keep-holding to continuously walk in that direction. The fact that there exists three different modes for an up input in that game (tap up and release, tap up twice and hold up, hold up) means that just performing a normal jump in Tekken is excruciatingly slow by the standards of 2D fighting! By the same token, entering and exiting crouch repeatedly and quickly is both slow and strange to input by 2D standards!
Tekken is an absolute TRIP to learn how to play coming from traditional 2D fighters, even if your idea of a traditional 2D fighter is Smash Bros. given that Smash Bros. is literally 20 years old this year.
quote:
I don't know if its because of the art direction, but so far graphically I like this game more than Soul Calibur 6 and Tekken 7, who either abuse too much of chromatic aberration or look more blurry, meanwhile the old models don't disturb me that much, although I'm still someone who thinks that Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown is the best looking 3d fighter ever, even today.
In the PC release of T7, you can turn off all the film grain filters, adjust how much motion blur you want (from all the way up to Tekken Tag 2, to all the way to none), etc. Since you can return the game for free on Steam, I'd be interested in hearing what your opinion is of it once you've had some time to mess with those settings!
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| "Re(5):DOA6 Beta" , posted Tue 15 Jan 00:00
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Just curious, but has there been another 3D fighter that has used / for quick side-stepping instead of /? That worked so well in the DoA6 beta I'm surprised I'm having trouble coming up with other examples.
Tekken uses a single tap of up or down for sidestep, and a double-tap-and-keep-holding to continuously walk in that direction. The fact that there exists three different modes for an up input in that game (tap up and release, tap up twice and hold up, hold up) means that just performing a normal jump in Tekken is excruciatingly slow by the standards of 2D fighting! By the same token, entering and exiting crouch repeatedly and quickly is both slow and strange to input by 2D standards!
Tekken is an absolute TRIP to learn how to play coming from traditional 2D fighters, even if your idea of a traditional 2D fighter is Smash Bros. given that Smash Bros. is literally 20 years old this year.
I don't know if its because of the art direction, but so far graphically I like this game more than Soul Calibur 6 and Tekken 7, who either abuse too much of chromatic aberration or look more blurry, meanwhile the old models don't disturb me that much, although I'm still someone who thinks that Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown is the best looking 3d fighter ever, even today.
In the PC release of T7, you can turn off all the film grain filters, adjust how much motion blur you want (from all the way u
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I actually bought it on PC, but since I find to play fighting games at constant 60 fps kinda troublesome, I bought it again on PS4, although I could try what you said to see how it looks
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|  "Re(7):DOA6 Beta" , posted Wed 16 Jan 08:29
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For some reason lots of people are replaying Shenmue lately (including myself) Guess that is a combination of waiting for Shenmue 3 and that for the most part the HD remakes are fine now.
Guilty as charged. Although I haven't patched my copy yet, so I see weird shadow artifacts. Oh well... I'll get internet on Thursday.
quote:
I wish that Shenmue fights were more focused on 1 to 1 combat, there the Virtua Fighter Engine shines more than those 3 or more fights which are more button mashing, while the 1 on 1 combats require more thinking, and overall are very entertaining.
I agree with that sentiment generally, but because of that same dodge button, it was technically possible to be fighting one guy, have another guy take a swing at you from behind and dodge it gracefully in one tap. Today I feel the clunkiness, but at the time it felt very elegant.
quote:
I read somewhere that Shenmue 3 will be more Yakuza like in the combat, which I don't know if its for the better or worse
Yakuza... ugh. It's not the worst, but I felt it was at its best in Yakuza 2. The new games with all the stance changing feel so gimmicky. Yet it's a design problem -> let's add new moves to introduce depth to combat! -> oops, most players just hit punch punch kick over and over = fine... let's make flashy stances that feel different! If it's similar to Yakuza (ugh...) I hope it's at least close to Yakuza 2.
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I completely forgot about VF3. Considering Sega hasn't done anything with that game since the 20th century it appears I'm not the only one who lost track of that game.
VF is dead. 
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I also think if Fatal Fury was willing to take a 3D fighter approach to it, they could make a really cool game, and they wouldn't have to do so exactly in the image of Tekken or Soul Calibur. I do think that free-roaming 3D combat (e.g. Dark Soul) wouldn't fit Fatal Fury well, but such a game would not have to be wedded to a digital stick with only 4 buttons (as Soul Calibur and Tekken are). Such a game could also try to keep jumping as a core gameplay mechanic, which is certainly not the case with SC and Tekken.
I miss the more experimental fighting games of the PS1 era, like Ehrgeiz and Tobal. I feel like SamSho 64 and some other PS1/N64 3D games experimented with pseudo dodging, but the 2 plane thing was never really copied (AFAIK). I would love some new ideas in the space, honestly.
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| "Sonya Rousey" , posted Sat 19 Jan 04:52
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Yakuza... ugh. It's not the worst, but I felt it was at its best in Yakuza 2. The new games with all the stance changing feel so gimmicky. Yet it's a design problem -> let's add new moves to introduce depth to combat! -> oops, most players just hit punch punch kick over and over = fine... let's make flashy stances that feel different! If it's similar to Yakuza (ugh...) I hope it's at least close to Yakuza 2.
Wait! You with your hand on the time machine! Don't touch that dial!
Yakuza 0 and Yakuza Kiwami are the only games that have multiple styles... likely added because Y4 and Y5 had four/five playable characters (respectively, each with their own style) and they thought going back to one style would make players feel they were losing something.
Anyway, by Yakuza 6 we were already back to one character (Kiryu), one solid fighting style. Kiwami 2 is basically built on that. Since you seem to have some love for Yakuza 2, maybe pick up Kiwami 2 (since it's a remake) and see how the brawling strikes you!
Yakuza 4 is my personal favorite though, as I'm a big fan of Akiyama and his very foot-oriented approach to beating the everloving crap out of people.
EDIT: On topic, I totally missed the DOA6 beta. I have downloaded but have not yet played the RE2 Remake demo.
Even though lots of people criticized Yakuza 6 fighting style for being too simple comparaed to 0/Kiwami, I think that it must be my favorite fighting engine in the series, I loved how it has a little "Shenmue" feeling with how some parries and counters worked, it feel less button mashing than the other games where at some point you could just spam square on beast or brawler according to the matchup and call it a day.
And speaking of the Shenmue combat engine, yesterday I reached that chapter in Shenmue 2 where you need to caught the attention of a fighting scout through a series of street fights, specifically, the part where he asks you to defeat Jeffrey, Wolf and Sarah some random guys in the street. I started against Jeffrey Rod and once again, I realized how fantastic is the engine in a 1 vs 1 match, you could do parries, counters, tech throws, and lots of other things, all in a very fluid way. This was made better by the fact that the fight was at the best of 3 rounds and with ring out. It was so clear the inspiration that Yu Suzuki took from Virtua Fighter to make this part of the game, that I actually managed to defeat Rod in the 3rd round after he felt out of the ring after finishing his animation of a throw that left me with 1 hp
Shenmue 2 improves the first game in so many ways than sometimes I really wish than this was the first game with the yokosuka part having the length of 1 gd rom. Although if this happened, we would definitely lose some very iconic and emotional moments from the first game
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| | "Re(3):Sonya Rousey" , posted Wed 23 Jan 05:13
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Double Post!
Speaking of questionable returns, the original GG is being rereleased. This chance to look back is good for two reasons. First, it is an interesting first entry in a long franchise. Second, it will give new players the chance to see what a truly busted game with cheap bosses really looks like. Here's to hoping GG develops a tournament scene!
Ah, Guilty Gear! You know, I never really got on board with GG, despite its great looks and interesting characters (who I never took the chance to learn more about, despite their stories apparently being much easier to learn than the BlazBlue roster); maybe that's the opportunity to do so? I'd still need to buy a Switch, though.
There was one GG game which allowed four-player battles that was kinda cool. Confusing, but cool.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):Sonya Rousey" , posted Thu 24 Jan 06:06
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There was one GG game which allowed four-player battles that was kinda cool. Confusing, but cool.
Guilty Gear Isuka. Interesting idea, terrible execution. It had a turn-around button...
I'm interested for a physical copy of XX ACCENT CORE PLUS R, but I could never learn how to play this game (or xrd) since I don't have friends who are very into it
I tell people that Guilty Gear Accent Core (and its balance change, Plus R) is a 2D fighting evolutionary dead end. It represents a hilariously technical, super fast, extremely high damage (many standard combos that don't require exceptional situations or resources do 40% or more!), execution-demanding peak of Guilty Gear. For long-time players of the XX series, it was a blast to play (unless your character was Bridget) because never have many of the characters been so powerful. There are moves and tactics and whatnot else that are simply overwhelming in any other fighting game, even later Guilty Gear games. People that weren't deeply invested in GG had no reason to care (it is among the worst-selling of all the GG home console titles aside from maybe the X360 Guilty Gear Overture) and would get obliterated by all the few players that did care. The game is awesome, but good luck finding people that you can really enjoy the game together with, and good luck making sense of the story bits in it that continue from the previous GG releases.
The current Guilty Gear Xrd is a huge dialing back in general of the characters and system mechanics and execution demands. One of the few exceptions of being "dialed back" is Johnny, who was a bottom tier character in GGAC's initial release, and became super ultra top-tier for most of his time in Xrd much to the delight of Johnny players and much the chagrin of literally everybody else. But he's so cool in Xrd, so I forgive it.
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| "Re(8):Sonya Rousey" , posted Thu 24 Jan 22:04
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I tell people that Guilty Gear Accent Core (and its balance change, Plus R) is a 2D fighting evolutionary dead end. It represents a hilariously technical, super fast, extremely high damage (many standard combos that don't require exceptional situations or resources do 40% or more!)
Ah yes, Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus R...
Although admittedly it came at the end of the fighting game period, Accent Core Plus R was the game that made me sad at how newbie-unfriendly that even a publisher had become by its time. Not because ACPR's mechanics were hard or because it's easy to obliterate even seasoned fg players if they don't know GG, but because the instruction panels on the arcade cabs didn't even have game controls printed on them. All they had were introductions to the new systems, and that was it. Although it's understandable because it was a minor update with the addition of Order Sol, it was released as a game for only existing GG fans.
I'm on the stage of my life where I realized that no matter what, I don't have the time or interest to master a game, so now I just try to understand some basic fundamentals of most fighting games and be done with them just in case a friend invites me to his home to play some random game and defend myself. Sadly it seems that the barrier entry of the latest XX games have made this game hard to recommend for these situations, even a game like Third Strike seems to have a larger casual crowd
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| | "Re(9):Sonya Rousey" , posted Fri 25 Jan 03:42
quote:
I tell people that Guilty Gear Accent Core (and its balance change, Plus R) is a 2D fighting evolutionary dead end. It represents a hilariously technical, super fast, extremely high damage (many standard combos that don't require exceptional situations or resources do 40% or more!)
Ah yes, Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus R...
Although admittedly it came at the end of the fighting game period, Accent Core Plus R was the game that made me sad at how newbie-unfriendly that even a publisher had become by its time. Not because ACPR's mechanics were hard or because it's easy to obliterate even seasoned fg players if they don't know GG, but because the instruction panels on the arcade cabs didn't even have game controls printed on them. All they had were introductions to the new systems, and that was it. Although it's understandable because it was a minor update with the addition of Order Sol, it was released as a game for only existing GG fans.
I'm on the stage of my life where I realized that no matter what, I don't have the time or interest to master a game, so now I just try to understand some basic fundamentals of most fighting games and be done with them just in case a friend invites me to his home to play some random game and defend myself. Sadly it seems that the barrier entry of the latest XX games have made this game hard to recommend for these situations, even a game like Third Strike seems to have a larger casual crowd
There is one really interesting thing that one of my friends who is much much better than me at GG pointed out about AC+R: some of the game tuning was done with LCD display latency in mind. A number of moves had added startup time in order to make them as reactable to as they were in GGAC on CRT.
I do think that GGAC is a blast, though! You'll probably never be able to have fun playing Slayer in Xrd after getting to use Big Bang Upper and insane fast Dead On Time in GGAC! Eddie is absurd in that game, having a gigantic drill force break (i.e. requires 25% super to use) that not only can't be airblocked without invoking FD, but has to be low blocked on the ground! And it is so fast and so tall that it will probably hit you even if you started jumping as he started doing it! Jam is bonkers. Baiken is nuts. Potemkin is an actual high-tier character. Testament has a special move in GGAC so stupid (forward EXE beast) that all by itself ruins Faust's entire matchup with him! Slashback is a parry-like mechanic that is comically difficult to make use of but is amazingly awesome when somebody does make use of it successfully! Etcetera!
If you liked the previous GGX or GGXX games, AC is the most amped-up version of it that will ever exist without going all the way to the actually silly gold characters who can run across the screen instantly. For people that like practicing/doing combos and highly technical fighting games, it's a dream. For people that don't, it's an interesting novelty.
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| | "Re(1):DBFZ level up" , posted Tue 29 Jan 01:27
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Videl, Jiren and some more Gokus are coming to DBFZ. With those big eyes of his Jiren would make a great plush toy.
Jiren, half a Videl, half a Gohan, half a Goku, half a Vegeta, and a Broly.
This does seem to de-confirm last year's "leak". While the leak did list Jiren, Gogeta, and Videl with Great Saiyaman assisting, it didn't list Broly and claimed there would be eight characters instead of six.
A few people have pointed out that now two of the three female characters have another character helping them fight.
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| | "Re(4):Ugly People Battle" , posted Thu 7 Feb 05:24
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Kabal returns to MK with violence, non-sequitur introductions, and desperate attempts to outrun janky animation. D'Vorah was also revealed. Or, at least, a picture of D'Vorah was revealed. This is the second MK character that has only been shown as a render with no details on how they play. Considering that MK is coming out in the not too distant future this is a little odd.
It is. Then again, does anyone really care about D'Vorah?
While I was disappointed at first when I found out the Variations would still be present in MK11, it's interesting how each of them seem to present the kombatant as if they are from a specific point in the timeline (one of Kabal's variations has him without the mask and looking perfectly normal, for example). It seems NRS is taking seriously the time-travel approach from the story of the game (the main antagonist is apparently a lady in charge of the timeline).
By the way, it's been hinted that Kitana will be presented next week. In terms of mainstays in MK, I guess the only ones still missing are her, Jax (and I REALLY hope the rumors of him being modeled after Terry Crews are true) and Mileena, right?
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):Ugly People Battle" , posted Fri 8 Feb 22:30
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By the way, it's been hinted that Kitana will be presented next week. In terms of mainstays in MK, I guess the only ones still missing are her, Jax (and I REALLY hope the rumors of him being modeled after Terry Crews are true) and Mileena, right?
While I'm certain that Kenshi, Reptile and Johnny Cage will all be back at some point I wonder if they will make it into the main roster. I assume they would want to save a few mainstays for DLC.
That would be the intelligent decision, yes. But then I remember MKX's DLC packs consisted basically of guest characters and kombatants like Tanya, Tremor and Bo Rai Cho... while I adore Tanya (a.k.a. Ms. Backstabber), she hasn't been in enough games to be considered a mainstay, and the other two should never return to MK, period (it's interesting how Hsu Hao is treated even by NRS as MK's black sheep, yet I'd say Bo Rai Cho is even worse than him). The only exception was Triborg, who was a cheap way to bring Cyrax, Sektor, Cyber Smoke and Cyber Sub-Zero back.
Anyway, Eventhubs reported an apparent leak from Steam's database for MK11, and if it's true, it would surprisingly indicate that Cage, Jax, Reptile and even Kitana won't be in the main roster. I hope that's not the case.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):Ugly People Battle" , posted Tue 12 Feb 01:35
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Hey, it's kool that NRS gave an exclusive costume for brazilians. Is better than they used a Cangaceiro design for Kano instead of a brazilian football jersey like they always do.
Since now I realized that NRS is willing to give people in Latam special editions of their games, I want to see a chilean edition,we really love Mortal Kombat.
Anyway, I'm excited for Dead or Alive 6, I hope that the game has a healthy online scene and that the netcode ends up being better than the one used in SC6 at least
It's not just for Latam; Skarlet will get a Soviet costume in the Russian edition, too. I do support your request for a Chilean edition, though!
As for DOA6, I'm still a bit frustrated that Momiji, Rachel, Leon and Gen-Fu were discarded, but I hope the game does well. The two newcomers look interesting.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(8):Ugly People Battle Zombie Ninjas" , posted Fri 15 Feb 09:47
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I do wonder if those three vacant slots in the most recently seen build is meant for them.
Maybe. But even then, there are only three slots, meaning at least one of them wouldn't make it to the roster. And since these slots are next to the pre-order DLC fighters, it's likely that whoever is added in these spaces would be restricted to DLC as well...
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Oh well, back to MK11, Zombie Jade was announced. Kinda funny that Baraka is back as if his death in MKX never happened, yet Jade is still undead.
However, her inclusion seems to indicate that the leak about this game's roster is real - and that's shocking, as that leak indicated that fan favorites like Reptile, Johnny Cage, Jax and Kitana would be absent as playable characters. Even if they appear in Story Mode in non-action roles, it's still weird to leave them out of the selectable kombstants - particularly so in Cage's case, as his ex-wife is still on the roster while he gets retired...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(10):Ugly People Battle Zombie Ninjas" , posted Fri 15 Feb 22:09
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Yeesh, what an awful look for Jade. I hope her regular skin is selectable because the subdued color scheme that NRS loves is not doing her any favors. At least Baraka still looks like a guy wearing a rubber mask.
Even if they appear in Story Mode in non-action roles, it's still weird to leave them out of the selectable kombatants - particularly so in Cage's case, as his ex-wife is still on the roster while he gets retired...
Like most over-the-hill action stars Johnny isn't starring in the big blockbusters anymore but instead is going to be featured in the direct to video sequel. Look for "MK11 Part 2: Breaking out of THE CAGE" coming soon to Redbox.
Heh, maybe... then again, the roster choice is still weird to me: Sonya without Cage and Jax (although Kano is in, so their rivalry will probably get some focus), Baraka without Mileena, Jade without Kitana... In Cage's and Jax's case, the leak indicates that Cassie Cage and Jacqui Briggs will be in, so we could assume the older kombatants are being retired in favor of the new generation - but in that case, Sonya shouldn't be in the game either (not that I'm complaining; Sonya is my favorite MK kombatant).
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Back to DOA6, Team Ninja announced that not only Mai Shiranui will be added to the game, but a second KoF fighter will be added as well.
It's funny to read the comments in that article and see people expecting Terry, Andy or Kyo... while their choice isn't impossible, come on, guys, it's Dead or Alive: I guess it will most likely be a woman, probably Yuri (with destructible outfit), King (with destructible outfit), Athena or Leona.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| "Mai Bounces Back" , posted Fri 15 Feb 23:44
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Back to DOA6, Team Ninja announced that not only Mai Shiranui will be added to the game, but a second KoF fighter will be added as well.
It's funny to read the comments in that article and see people expecting Terry, Andy or Kyo... while their choice isn't impossible, come on, guys, it's Dead or Alive: I guess it will most likely be a woman, probably Yuri (with destructible outfit), King (with destructible outfit), Athena or Leona.
It's a happy surprise to have Mai come back. I wonder if the other KoF character will be Nakoruru to double as advertising for the new SS game? If so, I can only imagine how annoying her bird would be in the DoA engine.
Speaking of DoA, it sounds like Evo Japan is off to a rollicking start with a DoA exhibition that was so embarrassingly off the rails that the stream was shut down. Next year Evo should team up with the HnK tournament and rebrand the whole enterprise as the Kusoge-Con.
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| "Re(3):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo buster" , posted Sat 16 Feb 05:54
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Sorry for my ignorance, but... what happened in this DoA exhibition?
Most of the exhibit was fine. It only went wrong, really wrong, at two points. First, the two gravure girls tried to kill time during a lull by doing a lewd vaudeville routine. Second, the game's producer decided to show off the photo mode by pausing the characters in sexually suggestive poses. Here's an article showing the clips. The stream was subsequently stopped and apologies from Evo organizers were issued.
On one hand it says something for Evo to allow the gruesomeness of MK to go unchecked for years but worry about this. On the other, the marketing for DoA6 has been trying to have its cake and eat it too by stating it's a "real" fighting game now while simultaneously letting the person spearheading the project behave like a horny middle school student at a showcase that is being broadcast to a worldwide audience. The whole thing was a mess.
But, as Maou noted, at least FGC mainstay Yuka Kuramochi is getting work.
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| "Re(4):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo bust(i)er" , posted Sat 16 Feb 06:26:
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But, as Maou noted, at least FGC mainstay Yuka Kuramochi is getting work.
Hilariously, in between 1) the preposterous US organizers talking about how goofy T&A is not reflective of their "core values" while people were getting hideously disembowled in Mortal Kombat ("gore values?") and 2) the lack of seriousness in putting the event in Fukuoka in the first place, the presence of a dedicated SFV player like Kuramochi is literally the most legit FGC aspect of the entirety of Evo Japan. (Edit: oh snap she is actually Super/Ultra Silver, not just Silver. I suck.)
Meanwhile, I never gave much thought to DOA, but the scandalous rotatable photo viewer brought me straight back to high school days of friends and me using Tobal 2's fully controllable camera in training and replay mode. Truly, Evo has me focused on the future of fighting games!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sat 16 Feb 07:24] |
| | "Re(5):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo bust(i)er" , posted Sat 16 Feb 10:16:
The DOA6 team at Koei Tecmo probably took EVO Japan as their best opportunity to make a stage presentation that's catered towards the Japanese market, especially considering how badly its preorders have been doing in comparison to previous installments of the series from what I understand. In doing so, it seems that they didn't put much thought into the show being seen by the western audience since it's a domestic event. Given that they hired gravure idols for this purpose is somewhat of a clear sign of that. The stream was stopped on Twitch but not on AbemaTV.
After it happened, the organizer of the original/USA EVO, Joey "Mr. Wizard" Cuellar made a comment on his Twitter which archive is available here. Since then the message has been deleted due to backlashes which are still ongoing; he boldly made a statement about the fighting game scene in general, whereas it would've been more safe if he addressed the EVO brand alone. As a result, right now there's a whole "Core Value" meme going on in the fighting game side of social networks.
What's also interesting however, which very few people seem to have taken note of, is that the DOA6 stage presentation co-host who was commenting with the producer during the camera mode was Noriyuki "Hameko" Kaneko, the official representative and chief of the EVO Japan 2018 series. He should've known better considering he ran the event last year. This year he was no longer a part of it, as the rights were sold to another company (or rather, a group of three companies from what I understand).
For anyone wondering about the game, a more fully featured demo will be available for play Feb 23-24, so don't miss out.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sat 16 Feb 17:15] |
| | "Re(6):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo bust(i)er" , posted Sat 16 Feb 20:41:
Iggy-- Source is here. Not sure of details.
Reports of how EVO Japan this year has been awful for the participants have been blowing up.
1/ Numerous reports by players being Disqualified (JA) because of names getting called out in low volume and also staff error; even if the player confirmed with staff about their turn and waited in front of the tables there's been cases of Dq. Also a case where the winner was wrongfully written down as a loser which really is unheard of.
2/ Complaints that the venue was too small. Explains why photos from Day 1 looked packed. This looks as bad as Comiket.
3/ Student volunteers were being used for staff. Actually this is the same as Evo 2018, but you really can't expect to find that many volunteers in Fukuoka as you can in Tokyo.
4/ Bad setup preparation. Reportedly, Guilty Gear in particular had issues as some PS4 units were installed with digital editions which weren't authenticated-- apparently nobody cared to check before the tournament to see if they could actually launch. But what's more stomach-gringingly bad is that one of the anticipated matches (Ogawa vs Machabo) got halted mid way when somebody logged in with a controller. [Edit] Worse than I imagined
5/ No casuals allowed on setups after pools were done. > How were players supposed to keep their games warm? Apparently some ended up going to the arcades for practice, which in no way should have been nessesary for a tournament of this caliber.
6/ Numerous complaints that the backets were badly made (one example here), with overseas players having to fight each other in early pools which should not be happening. With Las Vegas EVO this is avoided by announcing brackets early and fixing them up with public feedback, but that wasn't being done with Evo Japan. I don't recall that being done last year either, but the guy in charge of 2018 was Hameko and he's deeply knowledgable on fighting games and its scene, so it was probably taken appropriate care.
7/ The guy in charge of EVO Japan 2019 (who took over Hameko's position) is mostly tweeting about his merchandise booth during the event.
8/ As Ishmael was saying, hotels were an issue because the BTF boys band was in town at the same time and hotels were booked. This would've hardly been an issue had they ran the event in Tokyo.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 17 Feb 05:26] |
| PSN: Gojira_X
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| "Re(2):Re(10):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo bust" , posted Sun 17 Feb 19:44
quote:
Speaking of new characters, we have Julia and Negan (!) both out on the 28th of this month.
Negan is this fever dream of a character, too bad I don't know anything about the Walking Dead. It looks like they just made Julia's design a little more annoying. But gameplay wise she looks fun.
If there's one thing I can say about Negan, it's that Project Tekken is really testing the limits of absurdity.
I mean, everyone understood who Akuma was there to appeal to. And that worked, for the most part. Then Geese, that also made sense, although a lot of the people that Geese appealed to kind of overlapped with Akuma's appeal.
Then there was Noctis, who was not meant to appeal to the fighting crowd at all but a larger group of people who don't even play fighting games. That's where it starts to get weird, but at least with the style you might think he was doing a bishounen idol photoshoot with Jin or something.
With Negan I get the impression that they're making a crazy bid to appeal to people who don't even like videogames. Nothing about him makes any sense being in a Tekken game. Visually he looks like the only normal guy at a cosplay convention, and from what I know of the Walking Dead story he has no contextual reason to be here either.
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| PSN: KTallguy
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| "Re(3):Re(10):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo bust" , posted Sun 17 Feb 21:24
quote:
Negan, it's that Project Tekken is really testing the limits of absurdity.
I mean, everyone understood who Akuma was there to appeal to. And that worked, for the most part. Then Geese, that also made sense, although a lot of the people that Geese appealed to kind of overlapped with Akuma's appeal.
Then there was Noctis, who was not meant to appeal to the fighting crowd at all but a larger group of people who don't even play fighting games. That's where it starts to get weird, but at least with the style you might think he was doing a bishounen idol photoshoot with Jin or something.
With Negan I get the impression that they're making a crazy bid to appeal to people who don't even like videogames. Nothing about him makes any sense being in a Tekken game. Visually he looks like the only normal guy at a cosplay convention, and from what I know of the Walking Dead story he has no contextual reason to be here either.
It's true. Tekken guest characters make even less sense than Soul Calibur guest characters (a first).
I started to type "Noctis actually fits really well" but I think that's not true, I just like Noctis. Maybe it's because the guest characters are so well realized, I mind less that they're so absurd. And Negan seems to have all his quips and mannerisms from the show, which I'm sure people will appreciate.
Maybe Negan is a thing is because they're trying to appeal to the Mortal Kombat crowd with more "ordinary" characters? But lately all the MK characters have been weird too. Hell, gameplay wise I don't really even know what makes Negan special... going by his trailer he just seems like a heavy hitter.
Even saying all that, I still think that Tekken's line up is more attractive than SFV's lineup. Other than Zeku, I think all the new character designs in SFV are pretty unappealing.
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| | "Re(4):Mai Bounces Back, final Evo buster" , posted Mon 18 Feb 22:48
quote:
Sorry for my ignorance, but... what happened in this DoA exhibition?
Most of the exhibit was fine. It only went wrong, really wrong, at two points. First, the two gravure girls tried to kill time during a lull by doing a lewd vaudeville routine. Second, the game's producer decided to show off the photo mode by pausing the characters in sexually suggestive poses. Here's an article showing the clips. The stream was subsequently stopped and apologies from Evo organizers were issued.
On one hand it says something for Evo to allow the gruesomeness of MK to go unchecked for years but worry about this. On the other, the marketing for DoA6 has been trying to have its cake and eat it too by stating it's a "real" fighting game now while simultaneously letting the person spearheading the project behave like a horny middle school student at a showcase that is being broadcast to a worldwide audience. The whole thing was a mess.
But, as Maou noted, at least FGC mainstay Yuka Kuramochi is getting work.
Thanks, Ishmael! And sorry for replying just now...
Watching these videos, I can see how people could be offended by them. Though to be honest, the Bass/NyoTengu scene made me think less of a sexually suggestive pose, and more of a woman whose spine was broken in half (I mean, that's a very unnatural pose, and I'm not sure if a human being can even bend that way without dying). Oh yes, and the fact that her arms and legs apparently fused together when they touched each other (I wonder how many years it will take for these clipping problems to cease to exist).
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In other news, BB Cross Tag Battle got four more characters announced, one of them being Arcana Heart 3's Aino. It seems the game won't be restricted to the four franchises it gathered at first... I wonder if Umineko: Golden Fantasia has any chance of joining later on. That would be great.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):A bloody mess to the timeline" , posted Fri 8 Mar 02:29:
quote:
In other fighting game news I watched the stream for the Power Rangers game and it looks far better than it has any need to be. While I have no idea whether this game is going to be popular or not it seems someone is having fun putting it together.
It does look surprisingly good. As for the future of this game, if it does become popular, it probably WON'T be because of the Power Rangers (I mean, I have fond memories of watching the earliest seasons when I was a child, but PR can't really be considered a hot franchise nowadays, can it?).
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EDIT: Jacqui Briggs's MK11 render was shown at Eventhubs, and *gasp!* For once, NRS managed to make a female character with a beautiful face! If she looks half as good in-game, I'm more than satisfied! Hopefully Sonya, Cassie and Jade will get their faces just as good, too (Skarlet shouldn't even be in MK11, so I don't care if Boon gives her a MK9 face).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Fri 8 Mar 07:22] |
| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(3):A bloody mess to the timeline" , posted Sat 9 Mar 00:57
quote:
EDIT: Jacqui Briggs's MK11 render was shown at Eventhubs, and *gasp!* For once, NRS managed to make a female character with a beautiful face! If she looks half as good in-game, I'm more than satisfied! Hopefully Sonya, Cassie and Jade will get their faces just as good, too (Skarlet shouldn't even be in MK11, so I don't care if Boon gives her a MK9 face).
Jacqui and Cassie look so different it is as if they were recast with different actresses. At first I wasn't thrilled about bringing back the Kombat kids but their new science fiction outfits make them more distinctive than the interchangeable combat gear they had on in MK10. That, and they are normal, relatable humans so that automatically makes them more interesting than the otherworldly bores past games have featured. I'll take the two daughters over cyphers like Hotaru or those two clods from MK: Armageddon.
quote:
At first I wasn't sure if I agreed with Iggy about how Divekick is a game that got worse and worse the more content got added to it, but as time has passed I think I tend to agree. I don't feel like the aesthetics of the game got any better, the new characters are confusing mechanically and didn't feel like they made the game more fun. If anything, Dive and Kick only having slight differences from each other made the differences and the qualia of the game easier to appreciate!
I agree with that assessment. Divekick was built around a simple joke/gimmick and worked when that's all it was. The addition of more characters, techniques and subsystems turned the game into yet another fighter except now the main gameplay was too simplistic to be any fun. Looking like a flash game from Newgrounds didn't do the game any favors either. Divekick was too elaborate to be a novelty and too poorly constructed to compete with actual fighting games so in the end it died from indecision.
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| | "Re(1):Shadow Kombat" , posted Sat 23 Mar 05:24:
quote:
Noob Saibot and Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa are coming to MK11. This means I'll have to play MK11 at some point just for the novelty if nothing else.
Oh, and I think another Goku or two have been added to DBFZ but that was to be expected.
Shang Tsung's face looks a little... swollen? But it's nice to have him back.
Curiously, there was an alleged leaked list of this game's "kombatants" circulating on some websites a couple weeks ago, and both Noob Saibot and Shang Tsung were on it (although the list didn't say Tsung would be a DLC character). Assuming such list is true, the remaining roster would "konsist" of two new "kombatants", plus Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Jax, Kitana, Mileena and Shinnok (Reptile, Ermac and Quan Chi are surprisingly not listed, although I'd say it's about time Quan Chi got some time out anyway).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Sat 23 Mar 05:27] |
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| "Rewires" , posted Thu 28 Mar 01:39
Having to rewire your brain constantly is not easy. Switching from "Tekken 7" to "Dead or Alive 6" to "UNIST" for example is not easy. At this point in life, I suppose that every victory now is one that will be of happiness rather than of expectations because the rewiring will wear you out.
It's good that my youngest brother isn't a "DoA" or "VF" player in the sense of mental wear and tear. The less thinking he needs to do, the better. It helps that he caught on with "Tekken" seeing that he grew up with 2D fighters, making its button layout feel natural to him.
Since I'm about to hit my place with the PS4, I don't know what game will I play first when I get there. To make sure that I play majority of the list today, I guess that once I hit 3 online Ls for that run, I'll switch games. (So, with that being said/typed, I'll play "Garou Densetsu Fighting EX Layer" last because I remember having the most success for the current games.) I think that I'm better off waiting for "KoF XV". I haven't touched "XIV" in a while, but seeing that there are members that I didn't see from back in the day, while "XIV" and "XIII" for that matter are okay/solid games as introduction games for a series, they feel average/blah to me when compared to older games of the series. It's not that the staff's not trying. It's that the other games just have the charm I look for. (If you're wondering what's the last okay/good game for me, it's "2002 Unlimited Match".)
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(1):Avatar lady in MK11" , posted Thu 4 Apr 06:43
quote:
Anyway, after Gigas, MK11 finally gets another newcomer with Cetrion, a woman controlling fire, water, earth and air (and... lasers?).
She controls Earth, Wind and Fire? Too bad she doesn't use that power to add better music to NRS soundtracks. Her attacks remind me of different characters from Injustice. However, her Gaia based looks, outfit, and fatality remind me of someone else.
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| | "Re(2):Avatar lady and weird monster in MK11" , posted Sat 6 Apr 06:01
quote:
She controls Earth, Wind and Fire?
Heh, she definitely should. The soundtrack would be interesting.
In other news, the third newcomer (and supposedly the last one in the main roster, not counting Kronika) was revealed: his name is Kollector (how original), and he's... some sort of hybrid of Goro and Gollum. With blue skin. Sure, why not?
Now the only kombatant from the leaked list still missing is Kitana (Shinnok and Mileena are mentioned as secret kharakters, so they probably won't get reveal trailers). I guess we'll see her next week.
And some people say Frost may also be in, but honestly, do we really need angsty She-Sub-Zero back? I don't think so.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):Full MK11 trailer" , posted Tue 23 Apr 23:25:
quote:
...And here's Frost. From Sub-Zero's distaff counterpart to a combination of Alisa Bosconovitch and Cyber Sub-Zero.
Does she look better than in Deadly Alliance/Armageddon? Yes. Is it enough to justify her inclusion in MK11 over Mileena and Reptile? Not at all.
Saw the trailer earlier and I also thought Alisa Bosconovitch. I had to check, but I had COMPLETELY forgot she appeared briefly in MKX's story. I agree that the lack of Mileena and Reptile is upsetting, but we are also getting into the same problem Street Fighter has where the roster cannot really advance from MK2 so you have to make room somewhere I guess. Netherrealm isn't really helping the situation by once again doing time travel to go back to that time frame.
In other new, apparently the entire DLC roster was leaked through the switch version
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mortalkombatleaks/comments/bf2kis/from_the_switch_leaked_files/
You're right. The funny part is, back when MK Armageddon was released, Boon said they had added all the kombatants the franchise had until then exactly because they intended it to be a farewell, so that the next game could introduce a brand new roster (I think he said only Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Raiden would be returning). One weird crossover later, they instead rebooted the timeline and used pretty much all the MK1-3 characters...
Still, the reboot ended up with a high body count, and when MKX's first information indicated the story would advance a couple decades, it seemed that would be the occasion for the brand new roster, as even the kombatants who survived MK9 would be old and probably unfit for deadly fights. Then Kano was announced, showing that age wasn't a problem. Then Kitana was announced, showing that even death wouldn't prevent a kombatant from returning. Next thing we know, Baraka and Shang Tsung ended up being the only playable characters from the first two games absent from MKX (and even then, Baraka was still there as a Story Mode opponent).
And now, not only we have MK11's Kronika bringing people from the past, but according to some spoilers I read, MK11's Story Mode ending seems to indicate this will keep happening...
(recollections aside, I'm glad if this DLC list is real in terms of the MK characters chosen to return - on the other hand, sheesh, how many guests does a fighting game needs? NRS is overdoing it...)
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Fri 26 Apr 23:07] |
| | "From replaced actors to replaced graphics" , posted Sun 28 Apr 11:50:
quote:
The same thing happened with Jade, who I thought looked Indian in previous games and now looks black (...is black the correct ethnic term? Please forgive me if it isn't).
Most of the people I knew figured Jade was supposed to be black from the beginning, though that perhaps came more from her UMK3 sprite.
Though it isn't easy to pin down a skin tone, much less and ethnicity, to Jade. She started as a skin color palette swap of a Caucasian actress, which was immediately followed by being a skin color palette swap of a different actress in the next game. Even though the designers had chosen the skin and hair colors in the first place, her hair changed from brown to black while her MK3 character in general has a darker color tone. Then you have the home ports where she has lighter skin on different systems. Then a Siberian actress was cast to play her in Annihilation.
Of course this is all for a fictional character that isn't connected to Earth, and thus wouldn't be an Earth ethnicity regardless.
I know you made this comment several days ago, but it only "clicked" with me now: somehow, the huge changes in the way how a kombatant looks from one game to another is kinda similar to the change in digitized actors from one MK game to another back in the 1990s... could we say this series is "consistently inconsistent"? Although there are exceptions (Raiden's facial features look pretty much the same ever since the reboot, so he'd be one case of a kombatant "with the same actor"; same goes for Johnny Cage in MKX and MK11).
Not that I'm complaining, as the MK11 characters look MUCH better than they did in MK (the reboot) and MKX. This may actually be the first 3D MK game where the women actually look beautiful (they had some weird round faces in MKX, and let's just agree that something isn't right when MILEENA is the one with the prettiest unmasked face among all the ladies in the 2011 game...), and this time the future kombatants do look older than their past incarnations when both are near each other (in MKX, the flashbacks involving Cage, Sonya and Jax made it look like the only difference was the clothes they were wearing - Kenshi at least got a mustache and beard).
As for Jade, it surprised me that, following her in Story Mode, I repeatedly changed my opinion on whether she's supposed to be black, Latina, Indian or something else. So I guess I'll settle with "Edenian" and that's that.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Sun 28 Apr 12:12] |
| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(2):Fighting Game Thread Fall 2018" , posted Wed 1 May 00:49
When I last flipped on DoA6 I discovered that the latest update had retroactively allowed me to unlock material. Just for starting up the game I was immediately given over 150 rewards. How much junk is available in this game?
quote:
Last Steam Sales of the Heisei era means a lot of fighting game stuff that you'll never play but still have to buy because they're so cheap! Almost all Guilty Gear, KOF98 and 02 UM, and some more out-there and intriguing stuff like Arcana Heart or Melty Blood. KOF14 is still a bit expensive for what it is, but Uni[st] is the cheapest it's been, and it's secretly one of the greatest games around! SC6 is also worth it. Also, DLC stuff for most games, like BBTag, SF5, DBF and all that. FLEX is unfortunately not discounted.
Speaking of sales, when I last checked SF5 I saw they were running a "Big in Japan" sale. I guess naming the sale after the start of the Reiwa era isn't of much interest outside Japan so the folks at Capcom decided to go for a more universal reference with Tom Waits.
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| | "Re(2):Re(10):Fighting Game Thread Fall 2018" , posted Fri 17 May 23:38:
Some gameplay footage is now up featuring two pro-gamers under Cygames' sponsorship (Daigo and Fuudo).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-3cWAqPmXM
Video Synopsis---
Gran: Standard character, short-range
Katalina: Standard character, mid-range
Charlotta: Short-range power character with speed
Lancelot: Short-range speedy character with tricky moves
Ferry: Long-range character w/object setups
- There's icons below the HP bar which indicate the special moves for each character; like Iggy was saying, the moves have cooldown time and you can't pull them off again until the icon is filled again. The moves can be done with just direction + special button; doing them in traditional command input shortens cooldown time. Doing their fierce version will result in longer cooldown time but the move will have stronger properties.
- Actions like blocking, dodging, and rolling can also be done with just one button.
- Rejecting throws can cause chip damage if they're done too late.
- Power meter is used for DMs, and SDMs when you have low life.
Personal observations:
- Ferry looks fun but one hour of practice probably wasn't enough for Fuudo. Katalina looks strong too although she didn't get any wins in the exhibition. The differences in cooldown time between moves seem pretty drastic; Katalina's uppercut fills back up before she's even landed.
- Overheads are telegraphed with a spark, similarly to Guilty Gear Xrd.
- Arcsys seems to still have a thing about giving insentive to players that agressively move forward; the meter really jolts when the player walks or runs forward, while backsteps seem to have pretty short range. At least there seems to be no negative penalty system on this game.
Needless to say, much of the UI is based on the original Granblue Fantasy mobile RPG. This is certainly going to be a launch day pickup for myself.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sat 18 May 00:49] |
| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(5):The Fallen Angels" , posted Wed 29 May 11:43:
quote:
Is this the same artist that did artwork for Grove on Fight?
Close! So close, in fact, that by sheer random luck I just found a site on both Murata Renji (Groove on Fight and other Gouketsuji/Power Instinct games) and Tsukasa Jun (Sengoku Blade), maintained by MMCafe alum Click Stick (!). Once Nobi stops throwing his wisdom away into twitter's abyss, I'm sure he will enlighten us more on any connections, but in the meantime, I must appeal to the Professor and others wiser (or more willing to read things) than me!
Edit: Oh! Maybe you were talking about Fallen Angels' character designer. Well, we are just going to keep talking about Sengoku Blade anyway because it is the greatest! No? Okay, fine: the internet tells me that Fallen Angels was illustrated by C) none of the above - Kotani Toshiyuki, aka Styleos.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 29 May 11:50] |
| | "Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa joins MK11" , posted Mon 3 Jun 23:37
Turns out the Shang Tsung who will be playable in MK11 isn't the elder one, but a middle-aged man modeled after the actor who played him in the film. Oh, and he can also briefly become the male ninjas who didn't join the roster, meaning they won't be added in a later DLC pack (just like Mileena).
Also, other confirmed DLC kombatants: Nightwolf, Sindel, Spawn and two unrevealed guests... in other words, the leak was mostly correct, but sadly it was wrong when Sheeva was listed among the fighters. I'll miss the four-armed lady, but at least she's in the Story Mode cutscenes.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa joins MK11" , posted Tue 4 Jun 23:09
quote:
I don't even play Shang Tsung but having a digital version of Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa ham it up makes me excited for the character. Hopefully the power of the next generation of consoles will be able to model Robin Shou's hair. I wonder how the remodeling of Sindel and Nightwolf will turn out, since those are two characters who definitely needed to be sent back to the drawing board.
Sindel has been repping Elvira's spooky/hokey/sexy All-American Halloween aesthetic since forever. Can they can improve the design without foregoing the dramatic cleavage? They could riff on the
banshee concept that provides her combat gimmick, but when you're bringing back a returning character I want them to be at least somewhat recognizable if the original design is salvageable.
Since there aren't a lot of vampy, demonic MILFs (pronounced "milves," of course) in games, I would actually prefer they didn't go as far as to "reimagine" the character entirely. Maybe dialing back the cheese a bit and making her a bit more regal could do the trick.
Improving Nightwolf, on the other hand, may be beyond my ken.
I agree. In fact it was quite interesting that MK9's Sindel was indeed a MILF, that is, a woman with a great body but who does look her age. Same goes with MK11's Present!Sonya (unlike MKX's Sonya, who looked like she was just a couple years older than her own daughter).
Anyway, I agree that Sindel doesn't really need much change, while Nightwolf... er... maybe NRS could take one page or two from the Killer Instinct reboot? Thunder (especially his third look) and Eagle look surprisingly good.
It's still sad that Sheeva won't be added. Although Goro is the poster child for the four-armed kombatants, I always found her more interesting than him (so was Kintaro, but at least he appears in Shang Tsung's Fatality).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(5):Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa joins MK11" , posted Wed 5 Jun 01:59
quote:
Don't worry, I'm certain that American media and twitter will go wild with praise as everyone is subsequently shown entirely covered up, while delivering the most psychotically violent character deaths possible!
Rather than distressing about this, however, I will continue to grin at the creation of the pronounciation "MILVES." Tolkien probably had no idea how many f/v elisions he would encourage with his very emphatic footnote in Lord of the Rings that the plural of "elf" must be "elves."
I'm ok with certain designs changing to make the characters not all look like they are in either bikinis or thongs or fitness music video clothing (even if athleisure is the style of the day right now...)! Not only was that look homogeneous among the female cast, it was also a bit of a lousy character design even in a game with odd and also homogeneous ninjas.
I mean, I personally prefer the Juri outfit where she's got the shirt under the jacket, because while it is less sexy in one dimension, I think it makes her look cooler, and having the right balance of sexiness of fearsome competence is important to her portrayal! Especially when her clothes don't allow her musculature to show!
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| PSN: gekijmo
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| "Re(7):Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa joins MK11" , posted Wed 5 Jun 08:05
quote:
My biggest problem with Sindel has been that her attacks are visually boring. Most of her specials are her going "Aaah!" with effects layered on top. I'm hoping they lean into her royal/diva side so she can have more personality outside of her mouth stretching exercises.
As for Nightwolf… maybe make him into more of a modern outdoorsman? He can show up to the fights wearing lots of flannel and hiking boots. Camping at a park is passé, nowadays it's all about hitting the trails in Outworld!
Nightwolf is a character they could really play around with visually if we are talking about an appearance that reflects a world 20+ years after MK3. I think I read somewhere that the other leaked characters (Sheeva/Joker) are going to be part of the second character pass.
Anyone else playing MK11? It plays pretty okay, it is just a shame that the tournament variants aren't the default load outs. You got to set them up in the customization mode. Such a shame since a couple of moves I like aren't in tourney load outs. I need to get a new LAN cable or my PS4 so I can play online. I am always hesitant about playing NRS games online as the player base has always felt more annoying that other fighting games. I'll never forget playing MKX King of the Kill mode and some guy just yelling into his bad mic as his horrible music played in the background acting like a hot shot after he broke my 20 win streak (I threw the match because I wanted to leave at that point).
Krushing Blows are interesting in theory, but needed another pass through for some activation criteria. I really like that the uppercut can become a universal launcher that leads to combos. Some characters like Geras have moves that are easy to trigger and you will hit a few in a match, while others are so specific you will be hard pressed to get them (Johnny Cage's EX-nut punch needs to be the first attack in a match to trigger). Fatal Blows are okay replacements for X-Rays, you get sick of seeing them after a couple of times though. I think most of them could be trimmed by 30% for time though, the slow motion effect doesn't help either. They just don't flow well as cinematic attacks and for the pace of a match.
One thing I appreciate about the gear system in this over stuff like Tekken or Virtua Fighter is that they constrict what you can change so the silhouette of the character isn't drastically changed. I remember playing Virtua Fighter 5 online and see this really wacky variant of Sarah with like pink hair, a cape, some other weird accessory and it messes with my head and I forget who I am fighting. There is something like that with his game for me as my mind breaks when I see Sub-Zero or Scorpion outside of their classic Blue and Yellow color schemes. Sub-Zero in purple or grey just registers as Rain and Smoke in my mind and it feels weird seeing him like that.
The downside is that for the most part you are messing with details that are almost unnoticeable. I would never know what belt buckle of Johnny Cage I am wearing or the type of sunglasses I have on him. Some of the stuff I really want are the maskless "masks" which have yet to drop for me in the tortuous Krypt. I know that the Krypt/Adventure mode is pretty much ingrained in MK for the last 15 years, but it is so dull this time around.
The single player content in general is fairly annoying. Towers of Time just remind me why I don't like playing Smash with items. It is just gimmick after gimmick in hopes of seeing a tower for a character you play as with an item you want.
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| | "The Evolution of MK's All-American Aesthetics" , posted Thu 6 Jun 04:14:
quote:
I'm ok with certain designs changing to make the characters not all look like they are in either bikinis or thongs or fitness music video clothing (even if athleisure is the style of the day right now...)! Not only was that look homogeneous among the female cast, it was also a bit of a lousy character design even in a game with odd and also homogeneous ninjas.
I mean, I personally prefer the Juri outfit where she's got the shirt under the jacket, because while it is less sexy in one dimension, I think it makes her look cooler, and having the right balance of sexiness of fearsome competence is important to her portrayal! Especially when her clothes don't allow her musculature to show!
I agree that more varied and thoughtful character designs are always better. MK has been slow to evolve their high-school notebook/off-brand-comic-book design sensibility, but they are gradually turning their cast of bathrobe and bikini-wearing ninja clones into distinctive individuals. With varying levels of success, but hey, at least they're making an effort. Kabal, who previously looked like a meth-head doing a shitty Tusken raider cosplay, actually kinda looks cool now?
Bringing good taste into Mortal Kombat does almost seem like a paradox; the series has been and may well always continue to be tacky and proud of it (I've always found MK very "all American" in this sense). It's lineage is cheap-n-cheesy martial arts cinema on one side and tasteless, gross-out horror gore-fests on the other. Yet somehow, after devolving further and further into the basest common denominator (MK4-6), the series became a blazing mainstream success with MK9! That moral panic in the early 90s really did wonders for the series' staying power.
Now, does that degree of mainstream success mean they are obligated to cater to the broadest possible audience by putting the brakes on their (nearly) naked attempts to appeal to poorly calibrated teenage libidos with gratuitous, blood-soaked T&A? Should they move away from an aesthetic that, while perfectly in line with the series' freewheeling "hey, you know what would be cool?" approach, could potentially alienate other portions of the audience?
I'm sure the potentially alienated portion of the audience would think so (not to mention the shareholders)! A broad variety of people have very strong nostalgia for this series, and as with other media they love, many may hope that Mortal Kombat also "grow up" along with them to some extent. Even though nobody would ever accuse the series of practicing good taste or restraint, I don't think it was necessarily a bad idea to sit down and ponder questions like "Hey, is there any good reason that basically all our female characters look like battle-strippers?"*
It's subjective of course, but I think a lot of the series' female characters designs are in a better place after MK9. Sonya was rather ghastly in that game, although the costume itself is only half the problem (they have thankfully improved the underlying character models). Kitana is looking well in MK11, I think. It seems fitting that she seems more like a warrior princess than an exotic dancer, which doesn't seem like a super-controversial statement. Flex those design muscles, NetherRealm!
But that isn't to say it would be good, moral, or even financially wise to avoid any costumes that fail to meet some theoretical best-practices criteria like "realistic above all, form always informed by function, making no attempt to titillate, and offering a sensible level of protection to all vital areas," especially in a game as freaking daft, silly, and devoted to excess as Mortal Kombat. Finally getting back to my original idea, Sindel seems like the type to arrogantly flaunt what she's got. She's a literal femme fatale. She has that "Watch me slay" kind of vibe, as it were.
I'm sure that, if the team has exercised its design muscles by exploring variety, working with restraints, and then eaten an entire bag of chocolate-covered pretzels on cheat day, they could knock a sexy Sindel design out of the park like Johnny Cage taking off Reptile's head with an uppercut. Heck, with enough finesse, they may even be able to knock it off three times.
As for actually playing the game, I'm still not sold on the character variations idea. I suppose I am more content to talk about MK rather than actually play it. 
* - Without having them pay for DLC first? 
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Thu 6 Jun 05:06] |
| | "Re(1):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Thu 6 Jun 06:13
quote:
I'm ok with certain designs changing to make the characters not all look like they are in either bikinis or thongs or fitness music video clothing (even if athleisure is the style of the day right now...)! Not only was that look homogeneous among the female cast, it was also a bit of a lousy character design even in a game with odd and also homogeneous ninjas.
I mean, I personally prefer the Juri outfit where she's got the shirt under the jacket, because while it is less sexy in one dimension, I think it makes her look cooler, and having the right balance of sexiness of fearsome competence is important to her portrayal! Especially when her clothes don't allow her musculature to show!
I agree that more varied and thoughtful character designs are always better. MK has been slow to evolve their high-school notebook/off-brand-comic-book design sensibility, but they are gradually turning their cast of bathrobe and bikini-wearing ninja clones into distinctive individuals. With varying levels of success, but hey, at least they're making an effort. Kabal, who previously looked like a meth-head doing a shitty Tusken raider cosplay, actually kinda looks cool now?
Bringing good taste into Mortal Kombat does almost seem like a paradox; the series has been and may well always continue to be tacky and proud of it (I've always found MK very "all American" in this sense). It's lineage is cheap-n-cheesy mart
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I agree with this.
I think the designs for the women in the older games were simply egregious not in any sense of reasonableness, but that they just looked all the same and it seemed kind of bland and boring and lazy in the really old MK games. They're free to make all the bikini armor in the world, but don't make it look like they all shopped at the same bikini armor store on the same sale and showed up to the big event all wearing the same outfit!
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(2):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Thu 6 Jun 11:38
Mosquiton hits the nail on the head with MK’s hilariously extreme Americanness, which never resonated with me culturally even if I have the vague sense that my beloved God Hand might be even more American despite being from elsewhere, much like Sergio Leone’s Spaghetti Westerns. Needless to say, the Asia-as-(mis-)perceived-by-Americans aesthetic is one of several reasons you’ll never, ever see it in Japan. I can imagine the fun of it, though, and I really really like learning about this and Killer Instinct’s modern updates from Cafe enthusiasts like Just a Person!
Anyway, the desire to redesign the characters from “kind of sucky teen sketchbooks in the 90s” to “vaguely artistic and unique” makes total sense, even if I cannot possibly understand “progressive” twitter’s impulse to make sure fictitious female characters are not being exploited in a game seeking to grotesquely murder them, but hey. Speaking of which:
quote:
They're free to make all the bikini armor in the world, but don't make it look like they all shopped at the same bikini armor store on the same sale and showed up to the big event all wearing the same outfit!
Now here is a sensible middle ground!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(3):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Fri 7 Jun 01:03
quote:
Anyway, the desire to redesign the characters from “kind of sucky teen sketchbooks in the 90s” to “vaguely artistic and unique” makes total sense, even if I cannot possibly understand “progressive” twitter’s impulse to make sure fictitious female characters are not being exploited in a game seeking to grotesquely murder them,
Well, there's total equality in the violence and capabilities of the male and female characters, it's just that one side is more ridiculously dressed than the other!
I'm still waiting for a wrinkly lady and a burly lady in Tekken! Kazumi might be Jin's grandma, but she doesn't look any older than Nina! Nearly the entire female cast of Tekken has the same body proportions, except for Panda! Meanwhile, this is a game that has Miguel, Marduk, Jack, Heihachi, Yoshimitsu, Lee, Noctis, and Kuma on the male side! We even have an ordinary person in the form of Negan!
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: Ishmael26b
| "Re(4):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Sat 8 Jun 01:57
quote:
I'm still waiting for a wrinkly lady and a burly lady in Tekken! Kazumi might be Jin's grandma, but she doesn't look any older than Nina! Nearly the entire female cast of Tekken has the same body proportions, except for Panda! Meanwhile, this is a game that has Miguel, Marduk, Jack, Heihachi, Yoshimitsu, Lee, Noctis, and Kuma on the male side! We even have an ordinary person in the form of Negan!
Hey, don't forget Ling Xiaoyu! Namco even emphasized that she was younger and smaller than the standard by giving her that creepy baby head in Tekken 3.
If you're looking for 3D game with diverse body types you might want to look at that new game Bleeding Edge. Then again, that game is made by the less than stellar Ninja Theory and looks like little more than a remake of Max Anarchy so maybe you should keep looking.
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| | "Re(2):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Wed 31 Jul 11:51
quote:
I'm ok with certain designs changing to make the characters not all look like they are in either bikinis or thongs or fitness music video clothing (even if athleisure is the style of the day right now...)! Not only was that look homogeneous among the female cast, it was also a bit of a lousy character design even in a game with odd and also homogeneous ninjas.
I mean, I personally prefer the Juri outfit where she's got the shirt under the jacket, because while it is less sexy in one dimension, I think it makes her look cooler, and having the right balance of sexiness of fearsome competence is important to her portrayal! Especially when her clothes don't allow her musculature to show!
I agree that more varied and thoughtful character designs are always better. MK has been slow to evolve their high-school notebook/off-brand-comic-book design sensibility, but they are gradually turning their cast of bathrobe and bikini-wearing ninja clones into distinctive individuals. With varying levels of success, but hey, at least they're making an effort. Kabal, who previously looked like a meth-head doing a shitty Tusken raider cosplay, actually kinda looks cool now?
Bringing good taste into Mortal Kombat does almost seem like a paradox; the series has been and may well always continue to be tacky and proud of it (I've always found MK very "all American" in this sense). It's lineage is cheap-n-cheesy mart
[/U
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Back in the day, I really liked the MK games. UMK3 was the ultimate highlight in the franchise for me. I didn't mind executing the moves back in the day, either. But now, the motions are too much to bother to remember for each character, let alone the fatalities. I have always picked SF and SNK over MK anyways. UMK3 had all the goodness as far as characters go.
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| PSN: gekijmo
XBL: gekijmo5
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: gekijmo
| "Re(5):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Fri 2 Aug 06:00
quote:
Speaking of MK, Nightwolf's trailer is up. And he brings with him not only a spirit wolf, but also a spirit bear and a spirit eagle. Okay, I guess? Sindel is still the one I'm interested to see, anyway.
What is he wearing? Is that supposed to be a modern version of the battle gear of whatever imaginary tribe he's from? Also, is it me, or does he look like the actor Wes Studi? If so, this the closest we are going to get to SF vs MK.
I would comment on his moves but with the way moves are partitioned in MK11 I have no idea what his default styles are going to be.
I think he is just old Native American man which is weird compared to the other MK3 era characters in the game who really didn't age outside of Johnny Cage. I ended up skipping a lot of MK11's story so I don't know if they rewrote the timeline where Nightwolf lived past MK3's events or if this is just how they intend him to look because human version of "revenant" characters (Liu Kang, Kitana, Jade, etc) are all young looking.
The Bear, wolf and eagle spirits remind me a lot of the old cartoon Bravestarr He just needs a puma to complete the motif.
I feel like that his fatal blow seems a bit shorter compared to most of the cast. Which is good because uou get sick of seeing that stuff after a couple of times.
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| | "Re(3):The Evolution of MK's All-American Aest" , posted Fri 2 Aug 21:43
quote:
Back in the day, I really liked the MK games. UMK3 was the ultimate highlight in the franchise for me. I didn't mind executing the moves back in the day, either. But now, the motions are too much to bother to remember for each character, let alone the fatalities. I have always picked SF and SNK over MK anyways. UMK3 had all the goodness as far as characters go.
Eric, I agree in part: to me, MK9 (aka MK Reboot) is actually the highlight of the franchise (despite the women being basically naked - then again, they were half-naked in the old games as well...). But yeah, UMK3 was a nice game in terms of characters, content and gameplay. It's quite underrated because of its presentation (the lame fatalities, some cheap animations, the lack of pictures in endings even though the vanilla MK3 had them, etc.), and I guess that's why most MK fans tend to think of it as a disappointment and consider MKII as vastly superior, even though MKII also had its share of stupidity and was severely unbalanced.
I actually like UMK3. Damn, I also like VANILLA MK3! I mean, UMK3 has much more content, but MK3 had a better presentation (an intro detailing the story with nice pictures, bios for all kombatants instead of just the ninjas, each fight visiting a different stage rather than rotating twice or THREE TIMES between the UMK3 new ones before the old ones even appearing...). Somehow, I feel like Midway rushed UMK3's production after the poor reception MK3 got and it shows - but it's still a nice game.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "BBTag 2.0 announced tomorrow" , posted Sun 4 Aug 19:55
quote:
Yes, it unlocks some of the Season 3 fighters...but you can only use them in training mode.
This is the dumbest thing I've seen this year month week today from Capcom. Seriously, who thought that was a going to convince anyone to buy their stuff.
In other news, it seems tomorrow's announcement for BBTag 2.0 has leaked. 9 characters, out in November, first four characters being...
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Random waifu from Senran Kagura, random waifu from RWBY, Akatsuki from Akatsuki Blitzkampf, and.... BLITZTANK.
It's like they saw Skullomania in SNK Heroines and thought "wait, I can meme too!".
End of Spoiler
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| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
XBL: IAMDC1
Wii: n/a
STM: N/A
CFN: n/a
| "Re(2):BBTag 2.0 announced tomorrow" , posted Mon 5 Aug 03:05
quote:
Yes, it unlocks some of the Season 3 fighters...but you can only use them in training mode.
This is the dumbest thing I've seen this year month week today from Capcom. Seriously, who thought that was a going to convince anyone to buy their stuff.
In other news, it seems tomorrow's announcement for BBTag 2.0 has leaked. 9 characters, out in November, first four characters being...
That's nice! I wonder if Golden Fantasia (aka Umineko fighting spin-off) will eventually have a representative in BBTag as well. Ange and Jessica would be the easier choices, as both wear schoolgirl uniforms and all, but my favorite choices would be Beatrice and Aunt Rosa with her shotgun.
The game is doing good it seems. With over 2k showing up at EVO I believe? I havent played it much yet but its a good crossover.
Speaking of EVO, Samurai Spirits tournament went well. Justin Wong lost in the finals of both while the person who beat JWONG, must have had too much a sigh of relief (an accomplishment at that) and didn't take the grand final as strong as he should have.
These matches as you progress make a difference and changes the outcome drastically.
Also, I like to shout out in excitement that glad Samurai Showdown got more players than MK 11!
Long Live I AM!
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| | "Re(1):NEW GUILTY GEAR 2020" , posted Mon 5 Aug 16:11:
quote:
Brand new Guilty Gear game in 2020!
It looks so good! They've decided to embrace moments of time slow where they treat it like high-speed photography, like how some really top notch animation houses have done. The new character looks rad and is somehow one of two brand new black characters with dreads announced at EVO this year. Excited!
IT LOOKS SO GOOD!
Xrd was already astounding. As were DBFZ and the upcoming Granblue Versus game. In all these titles Arcsys demonstrated that they could replicate the look and feel of their 2d games with 3d cel shading. This meant intentionally keeping the frame rate low, not just for the sake of "looking 2d" but to maintain the feel/appeal of a proper 2d game where every single frame counts and is posed and spaced carefully.
So where do you go from there? After absolutely dominating "3D" as "2D" for years peerlessly?
Well ... YOU EMBRACE THE THREE DEE!!
It loooks like the in-game animation will now be as fluid as the cut scenes, with silky smooth slo-mo at times. But they're not just simply tweening it willy nilly, they're taking all their learnings from years of mastering 3d. Every pose is still incredibly thoughtful, but the look and feel of the game is so much smoother and weightier!
My guess is that while the game ran on "2s" before (12fps), now it will largely run on "1s" (24fps).
I think the leap from Xrd to whatever this new installment is called will feel as significant as the leap from Street Fighter 2 to Darkstalkers. I think they're just now REALLY TRULY hitting their stride and unlocking the potential of this process and this medium!
If Xrd were a TV show, this new game is an OVA! It earnestly feels like it's just "drawn" and animated better!
I can't wait to get a better look at the game!
Other thoughts:
-Redesigns on classic characters look great! They look a little more detailed without being overdesigned, they still pack their original appeal! This is how you do redesigns/updates folks!
-New character looks badass!
-My guess is that the character animation itself is going to be locked in at 12-24fps while the camera itself is 60fps. Which is reallllly interesting, especially for stuff like that pan around the new character at the end of the trailer, his movements are on 2s I think, but he turns in perspective at a higher frame rate. It's really cool! I think the first Xrd already does stuff like this though, but cool to see them mmess around with it here. Spider-verse does similar stuff too.
Ah man, with all the terrible things happening in the world right now, this game (and a lot of other stuff from Evo!) has been a nice little bright spot!
I hope everyone's doing ok out there!
www.art-eater.com
[this message was edited by nobinobita on Mon 5 Aug 16:13] |
| | "Re(1):Hype Tekken finals" , posted Mon 5 Aug 16:22
Jack and Kazumi are two characters that have a very similar trait in the competitive setting: they have a very small number of moves that they rely on in the neutral situation, so few you could count them on one hand.
However, while Jack is a total snooze, Kazumi manages to actually be alright to me!
One big huge difference between Jack and Kazumi is in sidestepping: Jack's big huge body and possibly different sidestep characteristics means he has a much more difficult time effectively sidestepping enemy attacks. To make up for this, Jack has all sorts of huge moves that discourage his opponent from sidestepping. Kazumi does not have this disadvantage, nor does she have that unique strength... and that makes a huge difference in how their matches play out, because Kazumi benefits from lateral movement!
In the matches against Knee, Arslan masterfully uses sidestep and sidewalk to evade attacks from Knee and strike him. In one case, he used sidewalk to get away from Knee's hellsweep (a very very fast low-hitting combo starter)!
Because Jack is deliberately designed to have lateral movement be a smaller part of the game, matches involving Jack are even less dynamic. On top of that, 3 of Kazumi's handful of key moves result in her moving forwards, which keeps her engaged with her opponent. In contrast, Jack's key moves either keep him stationary or push him out. Jack is a wall, while Kazumi is a mosquito. The mosquito may be annoying, but the wall is seriously boring.
Kazumi is also by design a simpler character (she has flatout fewer moves in her arsenal than most other Tekken characters), and the way in which she plays is fairly well-established. Occasionally fun gimmick plays show up with her, but the bulk of her strategy and approach to the game is well-understood. She's a character which is meant to emphasize the fundamental gameplay ideas of Tekken, and Arslan executes on that better than anybody else!
The thing which I find utterly shocking when watching Arslan play is how completely unflappable he seems to be. It doesn't matter how little life he has or how little time there is on the clock, until the round is truly over, he can still win. It almost seemed like that stone cold tenacity of his unnerved his opponents, and led them to errors.
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| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
XBL: IAMDC1
Wii: n/a
STM: N/A
CFN: n/a
| "Re(2):Hype Tekken finals" , posted Mon 5 Aug 23:13
quote:
Jack and Kazumi are two characters that have a very similar trait in the competitive setting: they have a very small number of moves that they rely on in the neutral situation, so few you could count them on one hand.
However, while Jack is a total snooze, Kazumi manages to actually be alright to me!
One big huge difference between Jack and Kazumi is in sidestepping: Jack's big huge body and possibly different sidestep characteristics means he has a much more difficult time effectively sidestepping enemy attacks. To make up for this, Jack has all sorts of huge moves that discourage his opponent from sidestepping. Kazumi does not have this disadvantage, nor does she have that unique strength... and that makes a huge difference in how their matches play out, because Kazumi benefits from lateral movement!
In the matches against Knee, Arslan masterfully uses sidestep and sidewalk to evade attacks from Knee and strike him. In one case, he used sidewalk to get away from Knee's hellsweep (a very very fast low-hitting combo starter)!
Because Jack is deliberately designed to have lateral movement be a smaller part of the game, matches involving Jack are even less dynamic. On top of that, 3 of Kazumi's handful of key moves result in her moving forwards, which keeps her engaged with her opponent. In contrast, Jack's key moves either keep him stationary or push him out. Jack is a wall, while Kazumi is a mosquito. The mosquito may be annoying, but the wall is seriously borin
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Arslan also dominated EVO Japan. A backstory here, he was stuck at Japan airport and authories would not release him. After reach out to people attending EVO, they did every effort to help release him to show he was coming fot a legit trip to the tournament. It was a success from the community. With that in turn, won EVO for Tekken 7. Pretty cool kid
quote:
IGGY review of Guiity Gear 2020
Awesome analysis. Something you don't see on these crummy VG sites like IGN and so.
Long Live I AM!
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(2):NEW NOBI GEAR 2020" , posted Tue 6 Aug 03:00
quote:
If Xrd were a TV show, this new game is an OVA! It earnestly feels like it's just "drawn" and animated better!
I can't play Guilty Gear but what a great way to put it. And who knows, maybe one day they'll make a "Friendly Version" ala Professor Layton and FFIV Easytype. Better still, maybe Capcom can just hire THEM to do the visuals for SFVI.
quote:
Ah man, with all the terrible things happening in the world right now, this game (and a lot of other stuff from Evo!) has been a nice little bright spot!
Good cheer through Evo and sports reminds me of how when I was growing up, I did tennis and kendo but never understood rooting for a team or getting deep into sports as a group/society. It was actually FFX, where a seeming diversion like Blitzball in an otherwise grief-stricken world, made me understand how a team to root for or a game to share as a society can really be a solace to people. Okay, enough reflection, here is something wild:
quote:
IGGY review of Guiity Gear 2020
While all of us aspire to be Iggy in one way or another, Nobi is the first to actually achieve the feat of becoming Iggy, even if easily done through a mistaken quick glance at their respective white-and-green avatars. The rest of us, as Toxico once noted, will have to settle with continuing to rummage through Iggy's garbage and engaging in friendly stal...whoooops nevermind!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(3):BBTag 2.0 announced tomorrow" , posted Thu 12 Sep 06:47
quote:
That's nice! I wonder if Golden Fantasia (aka Umineko fighting spin-off) will eventually have a representative in BBTag as well. Ange and Jessica would be the easier choices, as both wear schoolgirl uniforms and all, but my favorite choices would be Beatrice and Aunt Rosa with her shotgun.
Oh, that would be fun.
However, I kinda feel like BBTag is on its last leg. The 2.0 is probably going to be the final version, since its role was to tie over until the next real GG/BB episode next year. Maybe another quick DLC if GG takes a bit longer? There'll be another Arcana Heart/Kagura character to give them a full team, and then whoever from BB/Persona/Unist to fill the gaps.
I'm surprised the prod mentioned it's not over for ArcSys. Do they have a guest in Tekken/SoulCalibur?
Wow, it took me over a month to find your answer... Sorry about that!
Anyway, you're probably right on the prediction of the five last characters... Pity. But these franchises still have some cool possibilities, so Season 2.0 may still be interesting.
Is there anyone here who still plays BBTag, by the way? If so, how good would you say it is?
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
|
Platinum Carpet V.I.P - IGGY ARI !  | "Re(4):BBTag 2.0 announced tomorrow" , posted Thu 12 Sep 07:33
quote:
Is there anyone here who still plays BBTag, by the way? If so, how good would you say it is?
I've never played it seriously, I just used the computer as a dummy to learn the basic of the game so that I could watch tournaments and understand what's happening.
I think it's a game with a lot of good ideas and a lot of bad ones.
It was released at the same time as MvCI and DBF, and while at the time DBF was the winner and MvCI lost the battle in humiliating fashion, BBTag managed to walk by unaffected. It had a few interesting ideas that neither had, it was not as offensively ugly as MvCI, and it was not as bland and homogeneous as DBF.
Its main quality is that each character plays very differently (though some are so bad they're borderline unplayable, like Rachel).
Its main drawback is that the overall systems are so powerful that match resolution tends to be very similar regardless to which characters you pick.
All in all, MvCI was by far the most interesting of the 3 system-wise, and while its character were less unique than BBTag, they were better integrated in the system and allowed to play their game in a more natural way. The less said about DBF the better.
Two general take-aways:
1) BBTag's biggest achievement was to introduce UNIST to more people, and UNIST being a fantastic game, that's a big plus. Though you could just skip BBTag, buy UNIST (or its revision next year), and enjoy a good game. I wish there had been a BBTag when Arcana Heart 3 was around, as AH is also a great, great game (I think a revision was ready to be released?).
2) BBTag is adding Blitztank. They're clearly past the point where they want the game to be talked about seriously. Hopefully one of the remaining characters is Skullomania.
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| | "Re(5):BBTag 2.0 announced tomorrow" , posted Thu 12 Sep 08:18
quote:
Is there anyone here who still plays BBTag, by the way? If so, how good would you say it is?
I've never played it seriously, I just used the computer as a dummy to learn the basic of the game so that I could watch tournaments and understand what's happening.
I think it's a game with a lot of good ideas and a lot of bad ones.
It was released at the same time as MvCI and DBF, and while at the time DBF was the winner and MvCI lost the battle in humiliating fashion, BBTag managed to walk by unaffected. It had a few interesting ideas that neither had, it was not as offensively ugly as MvCI, and it was not as bland and homogeneous as DBF.
Its main quality is that each character plays very differently (though some are so bad they're borderline unplayable, like Rachel).
Its main drawback is that the overall systems are so powerful that match resolution tends to be very similar regardless to which characters you pick.
All in all, MvCI was by far the most interesting of the 3 system-wise, and while its character were less unique than BBTag, they were better integrated in the system and allowed to play their game in a more natural way. The less said about DBF the better.
Magnificent analysis, Iggy; thank you very much!!
Yeah, MvCI does look very interesting system-wise. It's a shame that so many bad decisions led to its premature defeat. To me, Capcom's big mistake (I won't blame them for focusing on the MCU for Marvel, as that was probably Disney's demand) is that its part of the roster was not only mostly reused from UMvC3, but few characters actually looked "un-Marvel". A huge part of the fun in the MvC crossovers was to see characters that didn't belong together at all fighting (or teaming with) each other, like Tron Bonne, Phoenix Wright, Roll, Amingo and so on. I guess they tried to look more serious (maybe to join the Injustice bandwagon), but it clearly didn't work out.
That said, the system WAS very interesting. I wonder if Capcom could reuse it for either some sort of "Capcom vs. Capcom" game... a completely new IP could be even better - but then again, they won't even make a new Darkstalkers or Rival School game, let alone develop an original game. *sigh*
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quote:
Two general take-aways:
1) BBTag's biggest achievement was to introduce UNIST to more people, and UNIST being a fantastic game, that's a big plus. Though you could just skip BBTag, buy UNIST (or its revision next year), and enjoy a good game. I wish there had been a BBTag when Arcana Heart 3 was around, as AH is also a great, great game (I think a revision was ready to be released?).
2) BBTag is adding Blitztank. They're clearly past the point where they want the game to be talked about seriously. Hopefully one of the remaining characters is Skullomania.
To be honest, I still know very little about UNIST and Arcana Heart (and RWBY, for that matter). I guess I'll try to learn more about them soon. I do know all of these franchises have quite elaborate plots (as if BB and P4A having huge plots wasn't confusing enough), so that's an additional obstacle
Oh, and Blitztank was a BRILLIANT choice! You see, that's exactly the kind of thing Capcom would pull off back in the MvC2/TvC days. Even if the tank sucks, just it being in the game is amazing!
(and yes, Skullomania being there would be a huge trollish move - but trollish in a brilliant way)
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):BBTag 2.0 announced tomorrow" , posted Thu 12 Sep 10:48:
quote:
That said, the system WAS very interesting. I wonder if Capcom could reuse it for either some sort of "Capcom vs. Capcom" game... a completely new IP could be even better - but then again, they won't even make a new Darkstalkers or Rival School game, let alone develop an original game. *sigh*
I'm just generally disappointed that Capcom has been content with sitting on their hands and watching while the popularity of MOBAs and Hero Shooters has blown up (and I guess has maybe declined somewhat). I mean, there is SFV, but many of those occupied hands were outsourced.
Looking at their history you'd think they'd be able to get together a diverse bunch of charismatic characters and throw them into a easy-to-learn but hard-to-master combat framework. Maybe they had watched Max Anarchy (Reigns) bomb?
But more likely it's that so many of the badass OG developers left the company long ago, and Itsuno, brilliant though he is, is only one man (speaking of the unlikely prospect of a new Rival Schools). Shoutout to Kodoi, though!
All things considered though, I think Capcom has been on the right track lately. They have some great stuff going, they just aren't as focused on hyper-charismatic people beating each other up (instead, those people are beating up demons, zombies, and dinosauric monsters).
Sorry for the slight derail here. I will also voice my approval for Blitztank, the only tank with a neck like a metal... uh, giraffe and a cute little skull face with glowing red eyes. This character has been putting in the hours training at SaltyBet.com, so I'm glad to see him get some official recognition. Not enough to get me to pick up and familiarize myself with the game, but I'll be slightly more curious to watch tourney play now.
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Thu 12 Sep 10:51] |
| | "Re(1):EVOGA + newcomers in present tag game" , posted Sun 22 Sep 22:49
quote:
An interview with one of the former EVOGA members.
Thank you a lot for sharing this! It's sad that EVOGA died after Rage of the Dragons; they had not only talent, but also the passion necessary to create great fighting games. I think that EVOGA would have been able to develop even better games had it survived.
And RotD should have been an official Double Dragon entry. It's definitely better than most official DD games (except the original beat'em up trilogy, of course), and definitely much better than the actual DD fighting games (the SNES one was terrible, and while SNK is well-known for amazing fighting games, their DD one for Arcade and Neo Geo was quite mediocre).
---
In other news, BB Cross Tag Battle's newcomers were announced: BB's Susanoo and Celica, P4A's Elizabeth and Adachi, and UNIB's Hilda.
To be honest, it's a little disappointing. It's cool that Adachi and Hilda made it (P4A and UNIB needed some villains), but I could think of some better choices for the other slots (any two of the remaining original characters from CT for the BB slots, and the Ken+Koromaru combo for P4A). And this is probably the final update BBCTB will get, so... yeah.
Then again, the crossover already had some great characters.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(1):League of Fighters" , posted Thu 17 Oct 04:07
quote:
For the public record it should be noted that tiny snippets of the LoL fighter have been shown. People seem oddly excited with theorizing about the potential business models of the game to the point where the game itself is secondary.
That's basically where I'm at.
The game will be the best in 3 categories: online, having dedicated eSports channel with giant prize pools, and communication from the developer. I think that's already a given.
As for the quality of the game itself, I expect something between Injustice and Killer Instinct, so nothing that will hold anyone's attention longer than a year or two.
And finally, with that avalanche of games, some of which have been worked on for over 2 years, the biggest question is: which ones will actually release, which ones will be cancelled and never be talked about ever again. One of them is apparently Football Manager but with LOL eSports instead of football, what else is there to say?
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: Ishmael26b
| "Re(2):League of Fighters" , posted Fri 18 Oct 02:33
quote:
That's basically where I'm at.
The game will be the best in 3 categories: online, having dedicated eSports channel with giant prize pools, and communication from the developer. I think that's already a given.
As for the quality of the game itself, I expect something between Injustice and Killer Instinct, so nothing that will hold anyone's attention longer than a year or two.
And finally, with that avalanche of games, some of which have been worked on for over 2 years, the biggest question is: which ones will actually release, which ones will be cancelled and never be talked about ever again. One of them is apparently Football Manager but with LOL eSports instead of football, what else is there to say?
You're right, it's probably going to be the next DBFZ where it gets a lot of attention for a few months and then everyone drops it and goes back to complaining about Street Fighter. Some people online don't seem to have grasped that Riot isn't pushing into the FGC in the same manner they do with LoL, instead they are experimenting with trying to graft LoL onto many different things and seeing what sticks. If/when this game comes out it's not going to be the revolution some are hoping for.
But, hey, if Riot somehow cracks the code and figures out how to transfer characters from a different game into a successful fighter we may finally get a sequel to Basara X after all these years.
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| | "Re(6):League of Fighters" , posted Fri 18 Oct 13:35
quote:
- it is a conservative attempt at a fighting game that is short-sighted in choosing to go with a traditional 1v1 2D fighting game when they have the infrastructure/marketing support and expertise to make a multiplayer-oriented fighting game that works well online that does not need to be chained to any of the traditions of existing fighting game franchises
On the other hand, if I understand correctly, Riot made their money with a game that was taking its core design from an existing mod of an existing game, and all the concepts they've shown in that trailer were "here's our Diablo/Overwatch/Magic/Football f'ing manager".
What you describe would have required them to have game designers and the desire to take risks. They clearly have a lot of talent, but not on the creative side.
League of Legends certainly was modeled after DOTA, which is indeed a custom map for Warcraft 3!
However, LoL has a very different philosophy about the game which is often diametrically opposed to the philosophies in DOTA, and often challenges fundamental tenets of DOTA and even itself with successive revisions. So rather than being what Fighter's History is to Street Fighter, it's more like... I dunno what.
Which is the thing that made me think that they'd be willing to try doing some things REALLY differently compared to some existing things, especially because it's not a hugely risky thing for them.
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| | "Re(8):League of Fighters" , posted Sat 19 Oct 15:01
quote:
Would you be able to explain these differences in layman's terms?
I've spent some time on DOTA Underlords and I keep thinking I should try TFT to see how different these two are.
I can't speak for TFT at all since I haven't played it, and Underlords actually seems to go in the opposite direction from DOTA: where DOTA continuously built greater complexity, Underlords is actually simpler than the game it is based on what with the simpler inventory system.
However!
When it comes to LoL and DOTA, I can say things!
Let's start it off this way. DOTA is the old game, and has many things in it that have developed incidentally and intentionally as mechanics and standards of the game. DOTA's competitive history and history as a mod means that it has a wilder spirit in its design and its players delight in the discovery of insane strategies and tactics. It is a game that is good almost in spite of itself. LoL looked at DOTA as a fundamentally brilliant game, but with a few different perspectives on what should be made more lenient for a general audience, and what should be tightly restricted in general. The overall result is that DOTA is a strange beast that is oddly particular about certain things, while LoL is a polished and welcoming character who seems a little stiff and inflexible.
LoL has a general guiding principle of "remove things that are anti-fun".
The general notions of "anti-fun" are manifold, but they are mostly about things that prevent other people from playing the game in terms of mechanical interactions, things that are too overwhelmingly powerful, things that prevent players from being able to have a significant presence over the course of the game, and so on.
One of the foundational examples of this "anti-fun" principle versus "crazy/inherited mechanics" is the notion of denying. In both games, you have waves of AI controlled minions that spawn at regular intervals and march down fixed paths towards the enemy base, and these waves of minions will clash with each other. These waves of minions are an essential economic resource in both games because they are the primary source of experience points for levelling up your characters, and gold for buying items. In both games, you are only awarded gold if you score the killing blow on the minion. In DOTA, whenever a friendly unit is below a particular threshold of health, you can attack it, and thus kill it before your opponent can kill it. In doing so you prevent them from earning the gold of that unit, as well as lessening the experience points they earn from it. This is a modified version of mechanics inherited directly from Warcraft 3. This is very powerful not only for its economic effect, but also because it allows you to affect the balance of power of the clash of minions and thus you can deliberately pull the line of battle closer to your side by dealing additional damage to your own minions. If this sounds incredibly obtuse and contrived, rest assured that it absolutely is, but it is something that people who play DOTA have grown to accept and love as part of the game. LoL dispenses with this entirely: you cannot attack friendly units, you cannot kill friendly units. At one point in LoL's life there was a character who could "execute" a friendly minion to give nearby friendlies a morale boost, but because this allowed for exactly that DOTA style interaction of denying money and controlling the clash and being something nobody else could do, it was removed from the game.
LoL is a game designed with five very particular player roles in mind, and it is done so to make the role of each player in the game clear which has value both in terms of streamlining the design as well as for streamlining the spectator experience. Three of these roles in reference to where they will be on the map: top, middle, jungle. The other two are "support" and "carry". Whenever things arise that challenge this designed order, those things are squashed in patches. In DOTA, it is often the case that there is one player who is described as the "hard support" (a player who gives up all his gold to others on the team) and one player described as the "carry" (a player who uses a character that is only powerful given large amounts of gold and experience points), but more often they are described in terms of economic priority. The design team for DOTA is perfectly happy if teams wish to put everybody in the same part of the game from the opening seconds, or if teams want to spread over their whole side, or if they want to choose to not occupy some area, whatever: that strategic flexibility and discovery of unusual configurations is part of the delight of the game and also part of the frustration.
Though over the past two years it has started changing in this regard, DOTA has been very happy to have characters which are geared towards specific phases of the game: some are very strong in the early stages, some in the middle, and some only become powerful in games that are long. LoL has some of this as well, but it has an entirely different stat system in order to ensure that all characters are statistically relevant at all stages of the game. Simply put, with an organized team in DOTA it is entirely acceptable that one player's character may have little relevance late in the game if their role is impactful early in the game, but for disorganized teams made of randomly matched people on the internet, this is a difficult proposition to accept. So in LoL, all characters have abilities whose power increases based on various stats of the characters: it's not just that you put more skill points into Fireball that cause Fireball to do more damage, Fireball also deals more damage if you have more Power and you can get more Power by buying equipment (these aren't official terms!). Relatively few characters in DOTA have this characteristic, and most of them are more recent characters.
Where the last part goes is that buying equipment in LoL is hugely about making your numbers bigger which in turn make your abilities stronger. In DOTA, it is true that the fighters want to buy equipment that will increase their regular attack damage and durability, but many other items have powerful activated effects that may have nothing to do with statistics that are far more powerful than what would be allowed in LoL. Because LoL is so rigid in maintaining its intended gameplay style, and because getting bigger numbers is essential to keeping up in the power race, LoL is naturally discouraged from having the variety and power of abilities the items in DOTA have. Here's an example: in LoL, you can choose to pick an ability that will let you teleport to a friendly building so that you can defend it. This ability has a very long (multiple minutes!) cooldown, and choosing this ability prevents you from having certain other abilities. In DOTA, that teleportation ability is on a cheap item you will often buy and use. In LoL there are trees in the jungle, but the trees are indestructible. In DOTA, a cheap item lets you eat trees and many characters have abilities that destroy trees, and the trees in DOTA grown back after awhile.
DOTA has multiple avenues of mechanical complexity which range from "there for the sake of making it harder to be good" to "there and incidentally it makes the game more complex". A good example is that in DOTA every character has a turning speed. Many have a very similar turning speed, some have a uniquely faster or slower one. During the early phase of the game when the players are heavily focused on the clashing minion waves, this difference in turning speed greatly affects how easy or hard it is to score killing blows or harass your enemies with hit-and-run attacks. In LoL, turning speeds are uniform and EXTREMELY fast except in special circumstances. This makes LoL easier and smoother to play, but eliminates a place where player skill can be expressed and complexity in the game.
As time has worn on, DOTA has unified some of its more obtuse mechanics into things that just make more sense, many of which were inherited from the now decades old Warcraft 3. However, DOTA is stubborn about elements of its identity, many of which LoL deliberately discards or goes in a very different direction with. LoL similarly is very stubborn about some elements of its identity, and some of those are things that DOTA players find repulsive.
The wildness of DOTA makes it very entertaining to watch, but often frustrating to play. The streamlined rigidity of LoL makes it smoother to play, but somewhat dull to watch.
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| | "Re(10):League of Fighters" , posted Sun 20 Oct 04:57
quote:
Thanks for the explanation!
DOTA sounds much more interesting, the way you put it. It's a shame games like these don't have single-player content (and a community as shitty as they do).
Yeah, it's a game whose extreme depth and complexity can allow for really interesting contests of strategy/tactics/individual skill, but the extreme capitalism in DOTA's game design (dying results in losing gold and the time in which you could earn more gold/xp, while those that killed you earn xp and gold from killing you) means that weaker teammates actively damage your team and strengthen the enemy team, and this is a big part of why the player mentality is so angry.
In a game like.. I dunno, Counter-Strike, the enemy team very quickly maxes out in power (once a player has armor, their gun of choice, and grenades, there's nowhere else to go!) and that can be achieved in a single round of victory. They don't get any more durable than that, and they will still die instantly when shot in the head.
Counter-Strike also giving the losing team chunks of money including a minimum amount of money for successive losses means that Counter-Strike is secretly the welfare state of games.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(2):New additions, idol subtractions" , posted Wed 6 Nov 01:00
quote:
In the feel good story of the day, Yuka Kuramochi married pro player Fuudo.
"Feel good" may vary based on one's perspective. Who knew it would take the R.Mika-playing "ass artisan" to finally make me understand the crazed idol fans who wailed when their favorite singers married off? Just kidding, this is actually pretty cool, even if she got to know him playing SFIV (yuck), and even if Fuudo isn't quite cute enough. All is forgiven for including Blanka-chan. Anyhow, now she's primed to expand into the lucractive new frontiers of the "married woman" pinup genre, so there's that.
quote:
Then again, players usually aren't happy unless they aren't happy.
Fan reactions to roster subtractions and new mechanics underline that even when their albums were getting weaker, Reel Big Fish had it right with "We're not happy 'til you're not happy!"
Anyway, Iggy's right about the seething Pokemon fans who were mad when some of their creatures also retired, so maybe it's the same phenomenon?!
I secretly think the first two Street Fighter Zero games were pretty rad for daring to dump most of the cast and trade it for Final Fight and Sakura. Ditto for SFV's weird initial roster, come to think of it. Oddly enough, I still don't like SFIII's roster. So much for that argument!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(5):New additions, idol subtractions" , posted Thu 7 Nov 10:23
quote:
I secretly think the first two Street Fighter Zero games were pretty rad for daring to dump most of the cast and trade it for Final Fight and Sakura. Ditto for SFV's weird initial roster, come to think of it. Oddly enough, I still don't like SFIII's roster. So much for that argument!
I guess you could say SFZ and SFV were moderately rad (in the sense that, even though both took bold choices for their rosters, there were still enough familiar faces). SFIII was too rad, keeping only Ryu and Ken (and, if what I read is true, even they weren't originally supposed to be in the game). By the time Gouki and Chun-Li were brought back, the damage was already done.
quote:
I am, however, very very ready for Guilty Gear Battle Royale. Or a 2D beat-em-up. Or Arc as visual designer for SFVI. Anything, really!
While I think neither Arc nor Capcom would be interested in a partnership for SFVI, that reminds me that apparently one of the developers of Skullgirls said they'd like to work on a Darkstalkers game. Now that's something I'd love to see (either as a new DS game or a DSvSG crossover - in the latter, especially if the roster also included some SG characters that weren't made playable, like Isaac the time-traveling scientist).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(6):New additions, idol subtractions" , posted Thu 7 Nov 10:51
quote:
I guess you could say SFZ and SFV were moderately rad (in the sense that, even though both took bold choices for their rosters, there were still enough familiar faces). SFIII was too rad, keeping only Ryu and Ken (and, if what I read is true, even they weren't originally supposed to be in the game). By the time Gouki and Chun-Li were brought back, the damage was already done.
You've reminded me of the original meaning of "radical" and it turns out I unintentionally meant both! Yeah, I think SFZero 1-2 and SFV had just weird enough a roster to feel fresh but not totally unfamiliar, while the character deletions provided that added bonus of annoying just enough people to be hilarious. I'm sure I'd have admired SFIII: New Generation more if I'd happened to like the new roster more, but I didn't, so it's pretty tough to please people!
Baines reminds me that even a Guilty Gear admirer-from-afar like me has heard of a few wacky genre-busting sequels (wasn't there a strategy game or something?!) that didn't go anywhere, but I'd settle for an approachable fighting game...or a Justice Gakuen-style dating sim where you form a band and achieve justice based on the power of ROCK AND ROLL
And while I'm generally skeptical of Western studios taking up Japanese series, Sonic Mania and (maybe) River City Girls made a case for it, and those gothic Londonians at Lab Zero could surely get the Vampire vibe. I mean, if sub-standard work at Udon can find its way into official Capcom games, why not farm out Vampire Saviour 2 to better artists who also made a fun fighting game like Skullgirls?
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(3):Re(10):New additions, idol subtractions" , posted Wed 13 Nov 02:13
My idea for making a game an arcade game that could be financially successful in Japan that is a fighting game of some kind:
The game is an action RPG with online functionality which is linked to a mobile game. The mobile game is where you can trade items, log in for dailies, build your base, grow crops, keep track of your inventory, organize loadouts, roll gacha when you aren't at the cabinet, read lengthy written stories, etc.
The arcade cabinet is where you play the "fighting" part, and it communicates with your phone using an NFC. You do not need to buy a NESICA card or whatever, you can even just tap to pay. The online functionality is so that you can play sessions with people who are not at the same arcade as you and the game can receive content updates.
The "fighting" part has a variety of mission types ranging from fighting your way through mobs, boss raids, PvP, etc. There's a "story" path of stages which receives continuing new story content, new raid content, etc. By using NFC and the phone, players don't even need to insert coins if they don't want to: they can use tap to pay. PvP has solo and team modes, and the combined force of levels you've built up, equipment you've crafted/gacha'd get to be made use of. You can engage in "normalized" PvP mode where it normalizes some of the stats so that players with weak gear can still have some amount of PvP fun with players with stronger gear, you can play in "tiered mode" where you will be matched with people that have similar power level to yours, and you can play in "free fight" mode where you can be matched regardless of power level.
Reaching milestones/clearing certain content in the arcade unlocks content in the mobile game and vice versa. A centrally important thing about the mechanics of the action game is that it would work well as a PvP action game as well as a PvE game that allows for a variety of stage designs, enemy designs, and mission types. A centrally important thing about the overall game design is that players who are not competitive fighting game players can enjoy fighting where they can experience progress and growth along dimensions outside of just player skill, and outside of zero-sum PvP.
basically next-generation Spikeout
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| | "MK11: white hair, dark soul" , posted Sat 23 Nov 22:26
Spoon, I LOVE your idea! It would be awesome if a game like that came true.
---
This is old news by now, but Sindel is going to enter MK11 in few days, and her trailer was shown last week. I like her screams and prehensile hair moves, but the naginata-like weapon from MK:Deception seems unnecessary.
Anyway, as you guys may suspect, despite her not being officially released yet, there are already plenty of videos of her on YouTube, showing all of her dialogues with the roster and her ending in Arcade Mode. And that's where things get surprising...
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Back in MK3, it was established that Sindel was once a kind queen who committed suicide to protect Earthrealm and later got resurrected and put under a spell to become evil, before breaking free and joining the hero side again. MK9, the first game in the rebooted timeline, also kept this characterization in her Arcade Mode ending.
Well, MK11 pretty much retcons Sindel to reveal she was evil all along, willingly murdering her husband and becoming Shao Kahn's lover to obtain power... and then, in her ending, she murders Kronika, then defaces Kitana (yes, her own daughter) and enslaves her, Shao Kahn and pretty much all realms.
Honestly, I'm still surprised with this plot twist.
End of Spoiler
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(1):MK11: white hair, dark soul" , posted Mon 25 Nov 09:35
quote:
This is old news by now, but Sindel is going to enter MK11 in few days, and her trailer was shown last week. I like her screams and prehensile hair moves, but the naginata-like weapon from MK:Deception seems unnecessary.
Anyway, as you guys may suspect, despite her not being officially released yet, there are already plenty of videos of her on YouTube, showing all of her dialogues with the roster and her ending in Arcade Mode. And that's where things get surprising...
Hmm. Not totally happy with her look (the designs in MK11 just aren't doing it for me in general). Also could do without the spirit/ghost/projection/stand and the magical "appears out of nowhere" weapon, but it looks like she has some fun moves and neat combo tools.
As for the story, I checked out back in MK2 where they pulled the "but wait, there are two Sub-Zeroes, the first one is dead, and the new one is a good guy!"
It looks like that second Sub-Zero has also died, then turned into a cyborg, then changed back into a real boy using magic.
I feel like they reboot their story pretty frequently as well. Could be time for another clean slate by the time MK12 rolls around.
/ / /
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| | "Re(2):MK11: white hair, dark soul" , posted Mon 25 Nov 21:34
quote:
Hmm. Not totally happy with her look (the designs in MK11 just aren't doing it for me in general). Also could do without the spirit/ghost/projection/stand and the magical "appears out of nowhere" weapon, but it looks like she has some fun moves and neat combo tools.
As for the story, I checked out back in MK2 where they pulled the "but wait, there are two Sub-Zeroes, the first one is dead, and the new one is a good guy!"
It looks like that second Sub-Zero has also died, then turned into a cyborg, then changed back into a real boy using magic.
I feel like they reboot their story pretty frequently as well. Could be time for another clean slate by the time MK12 rolls around.
Right, in the rebooted storyline, the second Sub-Zero is turned into a cyborg midway through MK9, then gets killed by Sindel near the end of the same game, then gets turned into a revenant by Quan Chi between MK9 and MKX, and finally comes back to life alongside Scorpion and Jax, thanks to Sonya (of all people) and Raiden... yes, MK's story is quite a mess (even for fighting game standards). Though I must confess I still enjoy it (then again, many people complained about Ronda Rousey being Sonya's voice actress and I thought she actually did a good job, so maybe my standards shouldn't be trusted).
And judging from the end of MK11's story mode, yes, MK12 will likely be another reboot...
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
...after all, MK11's timeline was erased by Kronika, and only Liu Kang and Raiden (and Kitana if you achieve the golden ending) escaped from it.
End of Spoiler
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):MK11: white hair, dark soul" , posted Wed 27 Nov 04:33
quote:
I didn't know that they analyze also 3D games, I'll watch it with interest as soon as possible.
The Rock Howard video was technically analyzing a 3D game, as it was ultimately about his KOFXIV version. The A.B.I.torial series generally focuses on 3D games, with Street Fighter V getting the most videos, followed by Netherrealm (MK and Injustice). I think the MKX videos brought the channel a fair bit of attention, as they gave detailed explanations for just why Netherrealm's in-game animations were bad. (Which was followed by a few specific Injustice 2 character breakdowns, and now the singular MK11 video.)
I'm dumb and for some reasons I remembered an analysis on 2d pixel art or probably it was some other video from them, I don't know / don't remember well, but now that I found again this channel I'll check some more of their videos!
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
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CFN: Ishmael26b
| "Re(1):A.B.I.torial" , posted Wed 27 Nov 10:37
I rather disliked that video. First, the criticisms of the animation felt as if they were veering into nitpick territory. Yes, MK still has plenty of jank animation but singling out the poor areas while praising something as ridiculous looking as Kazuya's jumping spin kick seems unfair. (I wonder, at this point is poor MK animation a stylistic choice? Does the occasional laughable animation break the tension of the unending violence? That's a silly idea, but MK thrives on silly ideas.) While it did raise some salient points the video often felt more like an obligation than an enthusiastic critique.
Second, why did the maker of the video say he wasn't going to talk about the story but still took the time to single out Jax's ending? I don't know what that was all about but it left a sour taste in my mouth.
Finally, the harangue at the end felt like it was more about the creator of the video than MK. Ever since MK1 the game has been about beating an opponent until they are helpless and then murdering them. Sadism has been the point since day one. Complaining about it now after ten sequels is a bit late. In the video MK was compared to a friend who had not changed since 1992. But MK is not a person, it's a successful video game franchise; why would it do anything differently? MK has gone through numerous cosmetic and gameplay changes over the years but, in the end, the core identity of MK has remained the same. The A.B.I.torial needs to recognize that a person's tastes can change and that something such as a video game may not appeal to them in the same way at different points in life.
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| | "Re(2):More Tekken 7" , posted Mon 9 Dec 22:40
quote:
Not only is Fahkumram overdone edgelord nonsense but I enjoyed the size disparity between his CG intro and the game footage. Either that box he was in temporarily stretched him out a bit or the character was going to be taller when the CG was made but was shrunk late in the process for gameplay reasons.
The size difference in the trailer was rather jarring. All the CG footage focuses on showing how much larger he was than Craig, but then it cuts to gameplay footage where he is clearly smaller than Craig.
I also expected him to shout Tiger Uppercut at some point. The CG making him look like a towering giant in particular sold the idea that he was half a Sagat knockoff. Except he has facial scars instead of a chest scar, though he also gets angry red marks on his chest (and back).
Agreed. It's cool to finally have a fighter coming from Thailand, and it makes perfect sense that his fighting style would be Muay Thai (even if Thailand has other pretty interesting styles, but MT is the best known worldwide), but Fahkumram does come off too similar to Sagat. I mean, not every MT fighter have to be incredibly tall, muscular and intimidating, do they?
That said, he's still kinda interesting, youtuber Ganryu is hilarious, and Leroy is super stylish, so it's a nice Season overall. I wonder if there will be a Season 4 after that or Bamco will move on to Tekken 8/Tag Tournament 3/TxSF. For some odd reason, I'd really love to see a Tai Chi fighter entering T7 (though Bamco could still save the idea for T8).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(5):More Tekken 7" , posted Wed 11 Dec 04:57
quote:
Wasn't SF1 Sagat a bit barrel chested? Poor Sagat has suffered a great deal of weight fluctuation over the years!
He was certainly sported a thicker look in SF1, but it's also the case that the art and technology in SF1 wasn't as refined:
SF1 sagat throwing a tiger shot
SF2 sagat throwing a tiger shot
Sagat is still quite muscular in SF2, it's just that his arms aren't as thick as others in direct comparison, or in proportion to his own body. Dhalsim's always been unusually bulky, but in SF2 Sagat's arms are just straight up less thick than Ryu/Ken's. Once SFZ hit, he had HUGE gains in the definition and bulk of his legs, which were particularly stick-like in SF2. I've always found it funny how I never really thought of Sagat looking funny when I first encountered him in SF2 and during SF2's heyday, but since then SF2 Sagat has always looked a little funny to me. I'm sure part of it is that again, he's just a better-crafted sprite in SFZ, but there's a general change in the idea of his "big-ness" going from SF2 to SFZ.
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| | "Re(6):More Tekken 7" , posted Wed 11 Dec 10:14
quote:
Sagat is still quite muscular in SF2, it's just that his arms aren't as thick as others in direct comparison, or in proportion to his own body. Dhalsim's always been unusually bulky, but in SF2 Sagat's arms are just straight up less thick than Ryu/Ken's. Once SFZ hit, he had HUGE gains in the definition and bulk of his legs, which were particularly stick-like in SF2. I've always found it funny how I never really thought of Sagat looking funny when I first encountered him in SF2 and during SF2's heyday, but since then SF2 Sagat has always looked a little funny to me. I'm sure part of it is that again, he's just a better-crafted sprite in SFZ, but there's a general change in the idea of his "big-ness" going from SF2 to SFZ.
I had written my own breakdown of the progression of Sagat, but ended up deleting it with the idea of getting actual visual evidence, then forgot to do so. I did do a few quick web searches for images, but nothing that I'd call solid comparisons.
I did find that SF1 Sagat looked a bit bulkier than I remembered. SF1 Sagat's build also seem to vary a bit by pose. At least to me, he looks less bulky in his arms crossed victory pose than he does performing a Tiger Shot.
SF2 was pretty close to SF1, as you say just with better sprite work. Some of the SF2 artwork portrayed a bulkier Sagat.
Street Fighter the animated movie appeared to give Sagat more muscle. Street Fighter II V, the TV series, gave Sagat a massive chest when viewed against the size of his head. In that regard, SF II V Sagat has a bulkier chest than SFZ Sagat.
SFZ added varying degrees of bulk to pretty much the entire male roster. If you make allowance for the roster-wide mass increase, then that somewhat balances SFZ Sagat's increased size. I did notice two things that to me make SFZ Sagat's chest look particularly massive. The first is that his gut did not see the same size increase, which in turn makes his chest look even larger. The second is that his buffed arms also make his chest look larger.
With SF4 and SF5, Capcom dialed Sagat back a bit. You might could make an argument that he is closer to his SF2 version than his SFZ build, or to how he appears in some SF2 artwork? I haven't really looked into that area though.
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| | "Re(7):More Sumo 7" , posted Sat 14 Dec 16:37:
So in contrast to what their visual designs may suggest, the gameplay design of Ganryu is really interesting compared to what E.Honda traditionally has been.
The appearance of E.Honda's massive frame, especially when squatting, gives to most people the impression of this unmovable boulder of a person! And for the vast majority of his life in SF, his inherent design is one of a defensive character who is difficult to attack.
But the funny thing about that is that sumo is... kind of the opposite of that. If boxing is a marathon, then sumo is the 100m sprint. Sumo matches have a duration measured in seconds, and almost universally begin with the two combatants blasting into each other in a sudden instant like football linesmen. So from the perspective of how sumo plays out, E.Honda is kind of an odd representation of it.
Ganryu is the polar opposite of E.Honda in terms of his gameplay style. Ganryu has many fairly quick moves that put him in an advantageous position when blocked, which is relatively unusual in Tekken. However, Ganryu's jab is slower than everybody else's, he has difficulty countering low hits, and while he has many good moves that are "fairly quick" he lacks good moves at speed range just above that of jab. When you put all that together, what that means is that Ganryu can output a smothering offense but has a lot of trouble when he gets put on the defensive. In short, Ganryu really really wants to seize the initiative immediately and rush the opponent down.
So Ganryu and Honda are near polar opposite visions of how a person with a sumo build could fight! Ganryu is arguably truer to how sumo plays out, while Honda probably fits how we imagine sumo wrestlers to be: giant implacable mountains of flesh that we imagine are slow and lacking in mobility.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 14 Dec 20:03] |
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