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| |  "Re(1):FFVII Remake Thread Part 1 Edition" , posted Tue 11 Jun 23:38:  
I'll throw in my few cents to start up this thread.
In Japan the game's MSRP has been announced as 8,980 yen + tax. That's pretty steep and a bit worrysome considering this game will be released in pieces, and this is only the first part that takes place in Midgal. Square Enix boasting that the game has enough volume for 2 Bluray discs and content to play as a standalone can be taken as either 1) they're actually confident, or 2)they're paying lip service for a game that needs to be released right before their fiscal to recoup development costs.
Putting that aside, with tax the FF7 Remake comes up to 9,878 which is almost akin to the 9,800 yen sticker price that SFC cartridges had back in the yesteryears. Thinking about that suddenly brought back flashbacks of when FF4 came out. Back in those days, people lined up and bought together the console with whatever new Final Fantasy game that came out (I certainly did so myself, up to FFX). In the same way, it could very well be possible that FFVII may end up being the title that sells consoles for the PS4, at least in Japan. Admittedly, it feels almost odd that the game is coming out near the end of the console's life span.
On a side note, it's very interesting how the gaming market has changed over the years. Back in the 90s, the customers lining up to pick up games were mostly children and their parents. Nowadays it's mostly adults. It certainly shows how the demograph in Japan has changed over the 30 somewhat years.
[this message was edited by Professor on Wed 12 Jun 02:50] |
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| "Anti-FFVII thread returns" , posted Wed 12 Jun 01:31
Hummmmmmm. While I'll never tire of the (sort of joking?) anti-FFVII thread and I have no nostalgia for the game itself, I do have nostalgia for the wonderful 1990s internet fan culture and art that surrounded it, in both languages. Things that occur to me:
-Is Nomura still directing this? Given the ease with which Square banished the series' creator, Sakaguchi, for the Spirits Within, you'd think that Nomura's total inability to bring out a game (KH3, FFXV) within half a decade of its target date would be a problem. Either way, given his lack of basic taste and intelligence on display in Advent Children, I imagine the redeeming features of the original to be almost entirely obscurred.
-And on that note, is releasing this episodically at the end of the PS4 era wise? This could ironically end up reproducing one of the worst parts of the original, the wildly varying quality of the movie graphics (from mini characters to full-height detail).
-That sure is a lot of numbers flying around! Last time, we talked about the need for goons to go down quickly to avoid wasting my time, and I hope they do.
-Freeter is right about Tifa ditching the Rinoa look, even if Capcom's black underwear curse is spreading.
-The dialogue variations and love point system was one of the better parts of the original...will it survive in CG world?
-Even if it grounds out after the first volume, at least they'll have the first few hours in Midgard, which are the highlight of a game that I find really dreary and disappointing anyway.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "'Conflicted Fantasy'" , posted Wed 12 Jun 03:01
What's with Doll Festival Day being a popular release day all of a sudden? The Switch was released on the festival day. Now, we have the remake of "Final Fantasy VII".
I'm trying real hard to like the remake. The game is sandwiched between "VI" and "V" as my favorite game of the series. I like Tifa's slight change to her outfit, as her "Advent" one was never an outfit that made me giddy. (I don't hate it, but it is an outfit that couldn't get me giddy.) Oh, and Mr. T is still Mr. T.
Being blunt here, the remake feels eager to be a blunder. I get that the battle mechanics changes needed to be implanted to get a new audience in, but I still don't like them. It seems that doing tasks like using items feels like playing various "KoF" games. If what I'm seeing is true, the game has gone backwards more than it should. I want to find my summons, not buy them with real money.
Yes, it's becoming hard for me to be real giddy of this remake. At least "2002's" remake made me type "'2002' went from above average at best to being a good 'KoF'". I feel like "VII's" remake is going in the opposite direction of "Unlimited Match". I could use words of encouragement to be honest.
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| "Re(3):FFVII Remake Thread Part 1 Edition" , posted Wed 12 Jun 05:59
quote:
If something goes wrong (or even just not right enough), will Square Enix stay committed to finishing it, or will they decide to finally cut their losses? Will we see a marked decline in quality, or improvements, or no change at all in later episodes?
This is a smarter take on what I was trying to get at: will the remake be rushed onto PS4 with vacillating quality, will it spread between PS4 and PS5, with graphical quality inconsistency as pronounced as the "ass-tastic square-faced mini Cloud in a wheelchair falls into Lifestream in Mideel" vs. "fully proportional Cloud rides a motorcycle," or will the whole thing just stay unfinished for a decade like Shenmue?
quote:
That's not to say that a Mcdonalds worker flipping enemies in a Fantasy RPG wouldn't be awesome, which was the same reason why Tifa was great in the original FF7. You had a swordsman, human ammo, bartender, and a flower girl in the same party.
I've been watching Professor's McDonalds analogy expand through edits all day and I love it. Tifa (OG) rules, but "sexy bartender" was ironically the most sophisticated design in a game featuring "saiya-jin with huge sword," "machine-gun man," "lion," "vampire," etc., which is probably both why they caught on broadly and why I was so put off by them after Amano's artistry. The ease with which they were adapted into massive fanart almost made up for it, though!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "Re(3):Pro-FFVIII thread" , posted Thu 13 Jun 00:27
quote:
On the positive side, I'm intrigued by the strange remake-but-it's-the-same-but-we're-remaking-all-the-3D-models of FF8.
Could it have the similar result as the RS2 and 3 remakes? Updating the game to look the way we remember them, over how they really looked?
!?!?!
[checks the news]
At last, rerelease news about a GOOD game in the series! This thread is about FFVIII now. Sod off, Cloud.
It's interesting since I'd heard that huge pieces of FFVIII's core graphics assets went missing, even worse than for poor FFIX which was MIA for years. The improved character models are a neat idea, but what will they do if the only copies of the pre-rendered backgrounds are PS1-era low-res copies? Well, anyway, they look good in battle, and they even preserved the low camera angle on Selphie's spellcasting, so this one is a winner for sure.
FITHOS LUSEC WECOS VINOSEC
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "'Flawed Fantasy VIII'" , posted Fri 14 Jun 20:13
I know there are people that are happy, but I'll be blunt. I couldn't stand "VIII". I to this day still type that it's the worst game of the bunch.
The Draw fundamental felt like doing a house chore rather than playing a game, and if you linked your HP with an important element for magic, you're killing off your character. Sure, the card game's interesting, but it's only when you're winning, not when the computer's cheating. While characters like Selphie and Zell get me giddy, I'd rather spend an entire month listening to "Lamb Chop's" never ending song than spend an hour with characters like Squall.
Yes, I typed that. Yes, I went there w/ that lamb. No, I will not take that back.
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| "Re(4):Pro-FFVIII thread" , posted Sat 15 Jun 01:07
No no, the statute of limitations for Incorrect Opinions about FFVIII has already passed. Fortunately, your benevolent Local Authorities have prepared the following list of frequently asked questions to address confusion experienced by citizens, frequently Americans, whose first RPG was FFVII. Even where this does not describe a citizen's exact circumstances, this FAQ has proven useful in clearing up dangerous misconceptions. Hard copies are available for a nominal fee in your local branch office or Garden.
It takes too long to Draw, and I don't want to weaken my stats when I use a spell. How can I address my issues?
-FFVIII's leveling system has been designed to punish OCD in casual play while still encouraging thorough stat customization. Citizens must take responsibility for their own unhealthy tendencies to hoard 100 Elixirs, Draw constantly, etc. Please also refer to extensive stat penalties for equipping Materia in FFVII in order to become more comfortable with the concept of magic use/stat trade-off.
FFVIII is not fun like FFVII. Why is the system broken/too easy/too hard?
-The Authorities recognize that FFVIII may be confusing for citizens whose first game in the series was FFVII and who are consequently used to being able to clear the game without ever blocking, and possibly without equipping a single Materia. Please note that the computerized RPG genre originates from tabletop RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons featuring highly customizable stats and equipment, and that the extremely wide range of possible ways of "gaming the system" in FFVIII are part of its design and in line with the origins of the genre.
Squall is a jerk. Why do I have to play as him?
-Squall is standoffish due to insecurities that are explained almost immediately, and his manner of relating to people changes convincingly based on interactions with these very same people. FFVII players discussing “likeability” concerns with Squall are encouraged to note that FFVII stars a pathological liar who nearly destroys the world while leading a party of eco-terrorists that also includes a hostage-taking corporate executive and a delinquent adolescent thief.
FFVII's characters are cool. What are you talking about?
-Citizens are advised not to worry. Youthful interests in "large swords" and "cool vampires" will eventually give way to stylish but sensible adult character designs in FFVIII.
Shouldn't a game with love as the theme feature the words "I love you?"
-While the sentiment above was widely observed by members of the American media in 1999, citizens are encouraged to note that FFVIII is neither a Hollywood production nor is its script written with Americans or English language conventions in mind. Please activate your English copies of FFX in order to enjoy games where the abovementioned phrase has been wedged into the localization.
How do I stop being so giddy?
-Irregular usage of quotation marks where capitalization or italics would suffice has been known to cause giddiness. Consult your doctor if you are giddy for more than twelve hours.
Does the computer cheat in Triple Triad?
-Citizens are urged to avoid confusing difficult regional rules such as "random" with actual cheating. Separate materials are available in your local library concerning effective methods for eliminating rules, such as challenging an opponent to cards and subsequently canceling before the match begins.
But FFVII was my first RPG and is still my favorite. When will I be cured?
-The distorting effects of nostalgia for one's first RPG have been known to make correct judgments difficult for the next few years, e.g., until 2004 at the latest. Citizens consulting this document after 2004 are asked to refer to the following alternate answer to the question above: Probably never, then. Sorry. Do not worry, however: many citizens who prefer FFVII to FFVIII still lead productive and meaningful lives despite this devastating problem.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "'Fine and Flawed Fantasy VIII'" , posted Sat 15 Jun 02:31
Ha ha ha! I feel like I'm hearing the announcers you hear at transfer stations. Something like that that.
I'm not typing that "VIII" is flat out unplayable. I'm typing that for me, "VIII" even with its good points is well, badly flawed. Would I give the game another chance? Only if someone pays the game for me.
quote:
It takes too long to Draw, and I don't want to weaken my stats when I use a spell. How can I address my issues?
-FFVIII's leveling system has been designed to punish OCD in casual play while still encouraging thorough stat customization. Citizens must take responsibility for their own unhealthy tendencies to hoard 100 Elixirs, Draw constantly, etc. Please also refer to extensive stat penalties for equipping Materia in FFVII in order to become more comfortable with the concept of magic use/stat trade-off.
Certain materias are double-edged swords. Even Cloud brings this up early in the game. The problem is that drawing makes you eat up a critical turn, and if the element you need in the battle is linked to HP, you're in more trouble than you need to be in. You can't change links on the fly, which is a bother.
quote:
FFVIII is not fun like FFVII. Why is the system broken/too easy/too hard?
-The Authorities recognize that FFVIII may be confusing for citizens whose first game in the series was FFVII and who are consequently used to being able to clear the game without ever blocking, and possibly without equipping a single Materia. Please note that the computerized RPG genre originates from tabletop RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons featuring highly customizable stats and equipment, and that the extremely wide range of possible ways of "gaming the system" in FFVIII are part of its design and in line with the origins of the genre.
Oh, yeah, there's that "Dungeons and Dragons".
quote:
Squall is a jerk. Why do I have to play as him?
-Squall is standoffish due to insecurities that are explained almost immediately, and his manner of relating to people changes convincingly based on interactions with these very same people. FFVII players discussing “likeability” concerns with Squall are encouraged to note that FFVII stars a pathological liar who nearly destroys the world while leading a party of eco-terrorists that also includes a hostage-taking corporate executive and a delinquent adolescent thief.
Now that I think about it, given the choice between spending an hour with say, Krang and Squall, I'll take Squall, but if someone like Prika shows up, sorry Squall.
quote:
FFVII's characters are cool. What are you talking about?
-Citizens are advised not to worry. Youthful interests in "large swords" and "cool vampires" will eventually give way to stylish but sensible adult character designs in FFVIII.
Certain "VIII" characters are cool just like how certain "VII" characters are cool. "VII's" jump out better for me, though "VI's" do a better job than either of the two.
quote:
Does the computer cheat in Triple Triad?
-Citizens are urged to avoid confusing difficult regional rules such as "random" with actual cheating. Separate materials are available in your local library concerning effective methods for eliminating rules, such as challenging an opponent to cards and subsequently canceling before the match begins.
True. Still, cheats!
quote:
But FFVII was my first RPG and is still my favorite. When will I be cured?
-The distorting effects of nostalgia for one's first RPG have been known to make correct judgments difficult for the next few years, e.g., until 2004 at the latest. Citizens consulting this document after 2004 are asked to refer to the following alternate answer to the question above: Probably never, then. Sorry. Do not worry, however: many citizens who prefer FFVII to FFVIII still lead productive and meaningful lives despite this devastating problem.
"VI" ended up being my favorite. I told a friend that "VII" is my favorite after "VI" recently, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that "VII" is more likely my third favorite after "VI" and "V".
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| | "Humble questions for the Authorities" , posted Sat 15 Jun 08:59:
quote:
No no, the statute of limitations for Incorrect Opinions about FFVIII has already passed. Fortunately, your benevolent Local Authorities have prepared the following list of frequently asked questions to address confusion experienced by citizens, frequently Americans, whose first RPG was FFVII.
Hmm. Well, I'm sure the Authorities won't mind if I simply ask a few questions....
quote:
FFVIII is not fun like FFVII. Why is the system broken/too easy/too hard?
-The Authorities recognize that FFVIII may be confusing for citizens whose first game in the series was FFVII and who are consequently used to being able to clear the game without ever blocking, and possibly without equipping a single Materia. Please note that the computerized RPG genre originates from tabletop RPGs such as Dungeons and Dragons featuring highly customizable stats and equipment, and that the extremely wide range of possible ways of "gaming the system" in FFVIII are part of its design and in line with the origins of the genre.
While not a direct answer, this does seem to speak to why the junction system is broken, too easy, and too hard. Thanks to the penetrating insight of the Authorities, I am willing to accept all of these propositions.
But I wonder why our learned stewards did not seem to address the idea that "FFVIII is not fun like FFVII"?
I'm sure it would not be too difficult to defend a misunderstood game system that, if one would only look, actually reveals itself to be elegant, rewarding, empowering, and smartly designed.
But while its obvious this wouldn't describe the junction system, I would suppose that the sublime intellects possessed by the Authorities could probably muster a very strong and convincing case that this often maligned system is, at least in some abstract sense, "fun"!
Of course, the authorities are probably very busy with always being right to update the FAQ. That isn't easy you know! It is said that their wisdom is far-reaching and complete, as they have spent untold hours drawing hundreds of Ultima spells which they have junctioned to every single one of their stats. Truly, such dedication must be admired.
The fact that these superior beings are watching over us is of some comfort, at least.
Thank you, Authorities!
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sat 15 Jun 09:23] |
| | "Re(1):Humble questions for the Authorities" , posted Sat 15 Jun 10:13
There are some games which I think are more fun when played with an FAQ, because the FAQ serves as a guide for the game's mechanics and the information it provides helps the player reach a point where they feel like they are making informed decisions / calculated risks. While there is thrill to be had in "I wonder what happens if I do X", there's a difference between doing X because you have no idea what anything does and it seems no better/worse than anything else you could do, as opposed to "usually A happens when I do B, but I've never done X before! I wonder what will happen", as further opposed to "X usually doesn't work, especially not in this situation, but I'm going to do X and maybe it'll work this time!". Each of these represent different kinds of surprises that all have value, but when a game regularly has you interacting with the same systems, being perpetually stuck in the "I have no idea what to expect from anything" makes the system not feel like a system you are really engaging in, and especially not a system where you are playing a deliberate role... even if your role is that of a Fool. I also think that if a player can too easily accidentally stumble on a way that is entirely within the rules to trivialize the entire game, that's also not good, because as far as they can tell they're doing the thing the game wants them to do and the game is just really easy.
I think Maou is a bit harsh on the character designs of FF7, because Vincent Valentine is pretty close to being an FF8 character already, Tifa and Aeris are good, Barret as Mr.T by way of sci-fi-ghetto banchou I like, and the monsters are totally good. FF7 was the first game with Cactuar!
But if any FF game can be considered to be a good but flawed or even an important but flawed game, it's got to be FF2. I don't even think the staunchest Kawazu fans could say unequivocally that FF2 is good, even if it represented an enormous step up from FF1 in terms of storytelling methods, mechanical complexity, and role playing depth. Its execution of the game was just so deeply flawed that you could totally screw yourself up by accident just as easily as you could luck into easy wins, and the inventory system which tried to make the largely barren inventory of FF1 something you had to meaningfully manage was so flawed in its implementation that it alternated between being merely infuriating (as you progress through the game, you permanently lose valuable inventory slots to story items that NEVER GET DISCARDED...) to being actually paralyzing (the spell books you luck into finding you just don't want to discard, but god do you need some inventory slots, but because you start at level 1 with the spell you don't know if the spell is actually going to be worth the investment!).
Now one thing that is objectively bad about FF8 is that it doesn't start with nearly the same kind of mystery and excitement of FF7. My resounding memory of the opening moments of FF8 is that I was stuck in a number of what today are termed "walk and talk" segments, except even more awkward because you couldn't walk backwards and you had to hit the A button to initiate dialogue and you could be just out of range of that and oh my gosh this sucks
I think overall the things I want from Final Fantasy will always be:
- amazing spectacle
- grand adventure in fantastic places
- fantastic and memorable music
Because Final Fantasy 1 was the first FF game I played, I don't actually consider well-written playable characters to be a requirement! I had a lot of fun with FF1, and I got swept away in its adventure! So to me FF7 fulfills those requirements handily. But it is a negative when poorly-written characters are not only prevalent in the game, but consume a lot of mandatory time spouting their poor writing at me. This is why FF5 was hard for me to play, because I played FF6 before it, so FF5 seemed like a vastly inferior spectacle. It's a shallow reason, but it's been such a defining trait of all the FFs I've enjoyed that it's hard to overlook.
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| "the Authorities have escaped" , posted Sat 15 Jun 13:04
I stopped by the Hall of the Authorities to convey Mosquiton’s entirely reasonable questions, but when I pulled aside the curtain in their throne room, I realized it was a fraud: there was nothing there besides a one-man PA system like in Oz (Wizard of Oz, not Konami Oz), though out of the corner of my eye I did see someone dashing off like Dr. Eggman. All I could find left behind were a madman’s furiously scrawled, virtually incomprehensible notes:
-Junction system: greatest realization of D&D legacy of players' absolute mechanical freedom and creativity since FFII or FFV???
-GENIUS! Mapping monster levels to Squall’s should mitigate players’ bad grinding habits and free them from wanting to Draw excessively...will the world understand?!
-Flying pastel school buildings+hard-core sorcery and time travel: most creative FF setting in history! I want to live there. They called me mad. Am I mad?!
-Small, likeable cast with no particularly melodramatic pasts! The music and atmosphere are MAJESTIC
-Spoon a brilliant fellow but how can he have forgotten that our beloved Sabotendaa/Cactuar debuted in FFVI?
-FFVIII’s system is no more broken than ability to negate game difficulty ten hours into FFVII with HP+ Materia or Edgar’s Machines in FFVI. Rewards creative ideas for chaining systems together in complex ways, none of which require an FAQ per se, but which do inspire a desire to share the virtuosity of one’s Lego- or Tinker Toy-like inventions with others, in a true realization of what Blue Materia largely failed to achieve through linked combo slots.
Next to this last note, I found some crazed Da Vinci-esque sketches and equations. An arrow pointing towards one flowchart seemed to indicate a direct evolution of FFVI’s beloved “Drill Armor” bug that lets you equip any item on any part of your body, whether it belongs there or not. The flowchart read: win common cards in the first hour → refine into large amounts of certain magic, while also refining common Tents and stones into Curega and Firega → junction onto HP and Strength, then learn ability to junction to Evade (this is so fun!)
In the corner, I also found a small safe that appeared to be from Shin-Ra Mansion. Inside, next to the key to Vincent’s coffin, in an envelope labeled “top secret,” I found further notes:
-No one must know that I think the first four hours in Midgard are brilliant until the grotesque Shin-Ra Building events, and that the interactive Kalm memory sequence is one of the best directed game sequences of all time! Above all, they must never, ever learn that despite claiming FFVII to be my least favorite Final Fantasy, I still wrote a timeline for its backstory in 2001!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):the Authorities have escaped" , posted Sat 15 Jun 23:20
What's that? The Kawazu Alarm rings! I have been summoned to a matter of grave importance! Let me see wha....
quote:
I don't even think the staunchest Kawazu fans could say unequivocally that FF2 is good, even if...
I...
There is... If you think about...
Well, actually, if... I mean, in the context of...
...
Hey, what is that? Someone is wrong on the Internet!
quote:
FF7 was the first game with Cactuar!
It wasn't! They were at the very least in 6.
Perfect! My work here is done. Farewell, citizens! Be safe!
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Woooooooosh!
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I don't think there's any question about FF8 being a mechanically more interesting game than FF7 (which was basically "I heard you liked grinding so I put grinding into your abilities so you could grind while your grind"). 7 was also the game to add the terrible concept of a stupidly unbeatable optional boss to make grinders believe the thousands of hours they spent grinding were actually worth it, a concept that I suspect was key in enslaving the minds of millions in the MMORPG craze of the following generation.
The rest is more subjective, as both feature mostly trash characters and a stupid story told in amazingly poor ways.
However, one features a great dog recruitable in the party, while the other has a stupid chicken. Point: FF7.
One the other hand, one's story is so insane that in spins continuously between the polar opposites of terrible and amazing, often during the same cutscene. Point: FF8.
That's 2 points for 8, 1 for 7, and 0 for 9. It still places these 3 games far below any other FF game (except maybe 15?), though FF7 later did the fusion dance with 10 and Diablo to did give us Path of Exile, made by a studio called "Grinding Gear Game", so everything was right in the end.
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| | "Re(2):the Authorities have escaped" , posted Mon 17 Jun 01:33:
quote:
Junction system: greatest realization of D&D legacy of players' absolute mechanical freedom and creativity since FFII or FFV???
quote:
I don't think there's any question about FF8 being a mechanically more interesting game than FF7 (which was basically "I heard you liked grinding so I put grinding into your abilities so you could grind while your grind"). 7 was also the game to add the terrible concept of a stupidly unbeatable optional boss to make grinders believe the thousands of hours they spent grinding were actually worth it, a concept that I suspect was key in enslaving the minds of millions in the MMORPG craze of the following generation.
Once again I feel like it's easy to describe the junction system as interesting, but its hard to call it fun without adding a ton of qualifiers. Can you eventually reach a "fun" state by mastering the junction system? I think you can, but it's tedious and fiddly even if you know what you're doing. For the remaster, I would anticipate most people just looking up how to break the system and then coasting through 60% of the game without getting too much out of it.
I bet they will have fun boosting their GFs, though! I know I felt a great sense of accomplishment when I succeeded in hammering the square button 250 times during Bahamut's 43 second summon animation!
...
Okay, that was a low blow. I am probably coming across as being a little mean to FFVIII here. To ameliorate this a bit, I admit that I personally did not enjoy Materia system much, either. It turns your party members into glorified rock holders (much as FFVIII turns them into math-class blackboards for Guardian Forces to perch on).
It always struck me as particularly stupid that (in theory) if someone stole Yuffie's Steal materia, she would then be unable to steal her stolen Steal materia back. Maybe the designers should equip a logic materia (har har).
Characters failing to express their unique identities in battle felt like a problem for both of these games. Thank goodness for the flashy and soothing band-aid that is the Limit Break... but man, I really should say something positive about Final Fantasy here. Okay, here it goes: I really like FFVI and FFT!
BONUS about FFVIII specifically: I hated Irvine. Wait, let me try again. I wanted Quistis to teach me things that weren't on the official syllabus.
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[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Mon 17 Jun 01:39] |
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| "Re(4):the Authorities have escaped" , posted Tue 18 Jun 08:37
The early consumer internet was forged through arguments over whether FFVII was worse than FFVI, and in turn whether FFVIII was a worthy follow-up to FFVII. I expect this will continue until the internet collapses into a fiery singularity, so until about five years from now.
Anyway, for my money, I always found FFVIII’s system to be loads of fun, even when zooming through carelessly my first time without twinking out like Red Mage with Junction at all! I recall just tossing whatever magic I had the most of onto a given stat (there may have even been a “select optimal equipment” option like in FFVI?) while learning loads and loads of fun and unique special abilities, the most since FFV! Using Tonberi to call shops from afar and threaten down prices with his meat cleaver, granularly adjusting encounter rates and enemy levels, eating monsters for maybe the first time in the series, giving myself crazy speed bonuses, turning enemies into cards… Come to think of it, that’s kind of the opposite of Spoon’s experience: no matter what I tried in the Junction system, I found something fun! Better still, these all had meaning since the game actually had some challenge to it, unlike its dismal predecessor.
FORTUNATELY, there are common truths which can mediate any disagreement.quote:
I really like FFVI and FFT!
I wanted Quistis to teach me things that weren't on the official syllabus
FFVIII’s music is magnificent
I’ve noticed that even the fiercest of FFVIII’s detractors can’t deny it’s one of the musical high points of the series, particular after the sound programming disaster of FFVII’s soundtrack. Putting aside a few winning tracks (Anxious Heart, the main theme, the boss theme, One-Winged Angel, and (I suppose) Aerith’s Theme) that somehow survived, I was shocked at the time by how awful the instrumentation and sound quality of FFVII were after FFVI, even with more audio channels to work with. This will probably all be papered over with the remake, which is sort of Iggy’s point with the half-remake altered nostalgia of RS2 and FFVIII.
Returning to form for the Anti-FFVII Thread, if the first episode only covers up to the escape from Midgard (six out of 40+ hours), they will never ever finish. Will we be stuck with a never-ending 8-episode series throughout the PS4-PS5 decade, even worse than the onslaught of mediocrity that began with Advent Children? It’s fine with me if the game ends on a high note in Kalm, but I suppose if they cut the overtly bad parts (Cait Sith, grotesque “snowboarding fun” right after the death of a major character, Cait Sith, the submarine, Cait Sith) and boring parts (snow field, Huge Materia), they could finish it one day.
Meanwhile, holy cow, despite all the talk about whether remake Tifa is cute enough, it turns out that the most attractive character in the game is Barett! 
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| PSN: Gojira_X
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| "Re(5):LoveLoveG meets Tifa's abs" , posted Sat 22 Jun 18:45
If I must, there are the three nice things I can say about FFVIII:
1) The music was indeed grand. It had superior instrument samples and more competent use of the PS1 sound capability overall. Plus, though we'd had arranged soundtracks for many years and we'd even watched a few FMVs with streamed audio in other games, real instrument performances directly in a FF game was absolutely huge. Hearing and seeing the context of Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec for the first time was bound to create some goosebumps.
2) The ending was extremely satisfying. Of course anything competent would have been fine after the wetly-delivered fart that was FFVII's ending, but FFVIII went the extra mile. Set to a grand medley that included the aforementioned FLWV, Eyes on Me, and culminating in the main theme of FF, we got to see everybody rendered in such detail that they were full of life! Whether you cared about the dumb romance at the epicenter or not, there was a great deal to see and feel here.
3) They left the debug room in the code, making it the first and last FF game I've ever hacked with impunity. Of course figuring out what it all meant was a monumental task that only someone with inside knowledge could completely decipher but it was easy enough to rewatch the ending as much as I wanted, without even visiting the boorish endgame, or even touching the annoying final boss. That was quite pleasant in an era before Youtube existed.
However this is not to say that I think FFVII's soundtrack was bad. On the contrary I believe it was very competently done. While I don't quite hold it to the same level of "misunderstood" as Harmony of Dissonance's, there is similarly a lot to be said for proper instrument sampling here.
Before FFVII, Square had zero sounds in its PS1 library. In an interview Uematsu said that he was going for a more "artificial" sound with FFVII's sci-fi theme, and I'd say for roughly half of it he succeeded. JENOVA, Mako Reactor, Under the Rotting Pizza, a lot of these work very well within the atmosphere of FF7. Even the Sousa-esque military march of Rufus' Welcoming Ceremony was quite catchy despite being associated with one of the dumbest sequences in this (or possibly any) game.
For the other half, mostly in the places where the action leaves Midgar and becomes more of a countryside, the artificial samples are applied to something of a different mood and begin to fall apart. Stuff like Mining Town and Open Your Heart had good intentions but they fall into a familiar pattern of relaxed compositions with an irritating timbre, loud and unrefined mixing volumes, dreadfully repeated until all of their faults become plainly evident.
These will benefit greatly from the remake, but since the first episode doesn't even leave Midgar it seems that it will be a while before we get to find out what happens with them.
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| PSN: KTallguy
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| "Re(5):LoveLoveG meets Tifa's abs" , posted Sun 23 Jun 10:22
quote:
In the end, it was a game where Ifrit, Shiva and the others were center stage except during the cutscenes. And Shiva and Ifrit are cool! I like them! Especially if I can interact with them instead of just launching a boring 40 seconds FMV to deal 300 damage to the boss! Quetzalcoatl is my BRO.
I'd forgotten that all party members develop affinity levels with their GFs which helps in some way or another. Is this the first and last true Final Fantasy dating sim?! Come to think of it, there is an affinity booster called Love Love G. It's also worth remembering that the mundanely written "boost" option during summoning sequences should actually be translated as "cheer," the idea being that you're cheering on your GF buddies as they kick ass on your enemies (in a way that is certainly no more tedious than in FFVII (and which was only resolved by FFX's abbreviated summon animation option, I think)).
I'd love a remake of FF8 where there are actually relationships with the summons, ala Persona. Maybe you go on specific GF quests, actually have dialog with the GFs... and you can explore the beast/human relationship differently with different characters? Wow, let's do it!!! But please don't merge the GFs with the character like in FFXIII... let them shop around a bit!
I didn't necessarily like the FF8 summon sequence cheering "gameplay", but again, in my mind's eye all those bumps are smoothed out. Best not to go back to the game and be disappointed.
quote:
On the other Final Fantasy, I am impressed by Square's candor while disdaining their vile aesthetic crimes. "We wanted Tifa to have abs, so she has an athletic body type. The ethics department at Square Enix also told us that we had to tighten her chest as not to get unnatural during all the intense action. From there we got the black underwear and fitted tank top.
Apparently, this was a mistranslation and the message was that she is now wearing a sports bra. Maybe DOA7 will follow through and sell "'I'm a fighter'" combat ready underwear". Also it's worth mentioning that Square-Enix has a reputation for being fairly "progressive" among game companies in Japan, even as they put plenty of fanservicy products on the market.
Gojira, I agree with you on the FF8 ending. It was somewhat disconnected from everything you were doing in the game, which is probably for the better. Nevertheless, I found it immensely satisfying, especially the party at the end and the group photo. I barely remember the final boss...again, another reason for a proper remake that fixes all those story holes!
Despite iffy instrumentation, FF7 has some of my favorite FF music. The world map theme is quite moving. My only complaint is that, like FF9, the soundtrack quality feels uneven. For me, the FF8 is on par with Xenogears and Chrono Cross because of consistently strong reoccuring themes and arrangements. Interestingly, FF8 strayed from character specific themes, except for Rinoa, but they ended up going back to it for FF9. I appreciate the "letmotif" style because it helps tie things together over hours and hours of play--FF8 made it more about groups and concepts than specific characters.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(6):LoveLoveG meets Tifa's abs" , posted Sun 30 Jun 01:37
quote:
sell "'I'm a fighter'" combat ready underwear"
After many years of the freaky model-Sephiroth-in-the-floor display in Square's Shinjuku store, the fashion showcase can finally take a very different direction.
In other news, we regret to inform you that FFVII has been chosen as Best of Show at E3 instead of FFVIII, but even I have to admit the battles look like they might actually be fun now, and Midgard was always where the game shined.
Obviously, that's not going to stop me from focusing on Kitase's interview on FFVIII instead:
The former head of the battle programming team, Harada Hiroshi, is now the project director. Original character modeller Kayano Tomohiro is involved, too.
Unforgiveably, the Pocketstation game is not there, and the things you got from it will be searched out by Rinoa's dog. Uh.
Since it was the first time with motion capture, they swung an actual metal prop for Squall's gunblade when a shinai bamboo sword would have sufficed. He gets nightmares thinking about what would have happened if someone actually got hit.
Let's got to the official page right now!
What's that? People still want to talk about FFVII in the FFVII thread? Okay.quote:
familiar pattern of relaxed compositions with an irritating timbre, loud and unrefined mixing volumes, dreadfully repeated until all of their faults become plainly evident.
I think Gojira's exactly right here, to say nothing of the nightmarishly bad "Who Are You/Who Am I Tracks." FFVI was redbook-quality despite being 8-channel (?) synth, while FFVII sounded like your Casio electronic keyboard in 3D.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(6):LoveLoveG meets Tifa's abs" , posted Sun 30 Jun 02:21
quote:
Despite iffy instrumentation, FF7 has some of my favorite FF music. The world map theme is quite moving. My only complaint is that, like FF9, the soundtrack quality feels uneven. For me, the FF8 is on par with Xenogears and Chrono Cross because of consistently strong reoccuring themes and arrangements. Interestingly, FF8 strayed from character specific themes, except for Rinoa, but they ended up going back to it for FF9. I appreciate the "letmotif" style because it helps tie things together over hours and hours of play--FF8 made it more about groups and concepts than specific characters.
The more time passes, the more I am convinced Theatrhythm Curtain Call is the best FF.
We get all the great music from all the games, even the bad ones, and we don't have to play them to enjoy the tunes. The RPG-lite elements were perfect too. Too bad they had to ruin it with the arcade game instead of making a Gaas with music packs from the entire SQEX library. The last one had a couple of RS2 and 3 songs, and some Chocobo Dungeon ones, at least?
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "FFVIII remastered on September 3" , posted Wed 21 Aug 07:02
NOW HEAR THIS
The sort-of-anti-FFVII/pro-FFVIII thread has been reactivated, not because there is ever any news on FFVIIR, but to note the sudden announcement of a September 3 release date for the best Final Fantasy besides VI, as determined by a survey of all posters masquerading as dark lords on leading message boards. It’s awfully cheap, and you get, uh, some sweet-ass wallpaper if you preorder, even though you probably already downloaded them back in 1999 like everyone else who’d just gotten the internet. Try it! You’ll like it!
Mostly, I just want to make sure they managed to keep the licensing for Eyes on Me after all these years, since the soundtrack doesn’t really work without it.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):FFVIII remastered on September 3+1month" , posted Wed 21 Aug 08:15
quote:
NOW HEAR THIS
The sort-of-anti-FFVII/pro-FFVIII thread has been reactivated, not because there is ever any news on FFVIIR, but to note the sudden announcement of a September 3 release date for the best Final Fantasy besides VI, as determined by a survey of all posters masquerading as dark lords on leading message boards. It’s awfully cheap, and you get, uh, some sweet-ass wallpaper if you preorder, even though you probably already downloaded them back in 1999 like everyone else who’d just gotten the internet. Try it! You’ll like it!
Mostly, I just want to make sure they managed to keep the licensing for Eyes on Me after all these years, since the soundtrack doesn’t really work without it.
I would hate to jinx any local practitioner of the dark arts (especially if they happen to wear molluscs as a fashion statement), but it might be better to wait a couple of weeks after release to see whether SQEX bothers to patch the inevitable sound bugs because they were too stingy to properly emulate their thing.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(2):FFVIII remastered on September 3+1month" , posted Tue 3 Sep 15:53
quote:
I would hate to jinx any local practitioner of the dark arts (especially if they happen to wear molluscs as a fashion statement)
In addition to laughing out loud, I was amazed it took me twenty years to realize that the reason this is one of Nomura’s most attractive and interesting designs actually has nothing to do with the plunging neckline at all!
In other news, I’ve braved the terrifying depths of resetera, gamefaqs, and similar in order to report to you, the taxpayer, on how this port of everyone’s favorite Final Fantasy (*citation needed) has fared:
The new character models are gorgeous
There’s lots of fast-forward and no-Draw options for the impatient/heretics
It lacks true analogue movement as opposed to 8 directions, and there’s no vibration...how am I supposed to time my gunblade hits?!
It turns out that in a small number of locations in the original, certain seeming character models were actually “baked into” the pre-rendered backgrounds and were thus not updated, which is admittedly pretty hilarious
On the other hand, PC modders are almost certainly going to fix the above, so obviously you should buy that version
This game still rules
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| "Re(3):FFVIII remastered on September 3+1month" , posted Tue 3 Sep 18:40
quote:
I would hate to jinx any local practitioner of the dark arts (especially if they happen to wear molluscs as a fashion statement) In addition to laughing out loud, I was amazed it took me twenty years to realize that the reason this is one of Nomura’s most attractive and interesting designs actually has nothing to do with the plunging neckline at all!
In other news, I’ve braved the terrifying depths of resetera, gamefaqs, and similar in order to report to you, the taxpayer, on how this port of everyone’s favorite Final Fantasy (*citation needed) has fared:
The new character models are gorgeous
There’s lots of fast-forward and no-Draw options for the impatient/heretics
It lacks true analogue movement as opposed to 8 directions, and there’s no vibration...how am I supposed to time my gunblade hits?!
It turns out that in a small number of locations in the original, certain seeming character models were actually “baked into” the pre-rendered backgrounds and were thus not updated, which is admittedly pretty hilarious
On the other hand, PC modders are almost certainly going to fix the above, so obviously you should buy that version
This game still rules
I already have the PC version of the updated Steam release. Will they ask us to buy it again for the Remastered version, or just update the existing Steam entry?
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(6):FFVIII remastered on September 3+1month" , posted Tue 10 Sep 14:39
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So, how is it? Any bug or major issue so far?
I’m so glad you asked, sensible friend who was most certainly not put up to this by me!
Square-Enix ports tend to fall into the category of “wellll, the original was great, but…”, and FFV and VI iOS are blasphemy along the lines of that botched fresco restoration, so imagine my delight to find that the FFVIII remaster does indeed fit into Iggy’s RomaSaGa 2 remake description of “updating the game so it looks like you fondly remember it!” Also, the loading times are gone.
Graphics: The new models are great, and there's actually barely any instances where certain low-res NPCs were “baked into” the rendered backgrounds and thus left unchanged, but the ones that are there do make a bad impression in places like, uh, the classroom five minutes into the game. But get back to looking at beautiful Quistis-sensei-as-you-remember-her and I can’t see it being a problem. That world map, though…since it’s 3D rather than using low-res but attractive pre-renders, it looks pretty bad now. Another reason to get the Steam version and hope for a fan mod. But you’ll probably be flying a giant school or spaceship at breakneck speed soon enough anyway, so whatever.
Triple Triad on speed: You bet your @$$ I’ll be playing a lot of cards, it’s the HD experience we’ve all been waiting for! Well, maybe not, but the way shorter loading times mean I can spend even more time even more quickly playing and winning cards from Headmaster Cid, random hapless NPCs, and probably the last boss.
No true analogue movement or force feedback: Admittedly, this really, really sucks. But not nearly as much as not getting to play FFVIII at all because I lent my PS1 to someone fifteen years ago and haven’t seen it since.
No PocketStation: I suppose it’s fine that the Chocobo World game is gone since it’s no longer the 1990s and I don’t know how to keep a tamagotchi alive anymore, let alone one inhabiting a hostile world of MONSTERS.
So yes, the remaster the absolute best way to play the game outside of literally existing in 1999 right now. Although:quote:
it might be better to wait a couple of weeks after release to see whether SQEX bothers to patch the inevitable sound bugs
This was eerily prophetic! They got so close, too. No field music reset bugs like VII and IX, and all the original high-quality music from the get-go...except they managed to accidentally use the crappy 2013 PC midi version of the looped version of The Landing that plays during the raid on Dollet and the Garden battle, two of the best scenes in the game! You can avoid it in Dollet by playing straight through from the FMV on the boats till the town square since the full version of The Landing (with intro) is fine, but when you quit and reload (thus skipping the intro version) or playing the Garden battle sequence (which only uses the loop version), you’re stuck with the bad midi version. Fortunately, certain VERY REASONABLE PEOPLE have already let Square know via twitter and online helpdesk and poison pen letter, while painstakingly subbing out the music file by hand in their PC version.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Procession of Witches" , posted Wed 30 Oct 09:20
FFVII Remake hype at the Cafe has retreated to appropriately low levels, leaving it helpless in the face of FFVIII Remastered! For Halloween, I recommend all good ghouls watch as Sorceress Edea bewitches an entire nation with an otherwordly speech and a near-sacrifice of the game's heroine, followed by the procession of witches, a ghostly parade sequence so baroque, exotic, and visually lush that I've literally been bored by everything else since 1999.
Since the official translation of Edea's speech somehow omitted the invocation of phantasia, fear, and "final fantasy," here's a substitute! I admit I originally did this for the r*setra FFVIII thread before feeling guilty, but that will just be our little secret.
Edea: …This stench. ….Filthy, miserable fools. Since ancient times, we sorceresses have lived within the realm of fantasy, a foolish fantasy that you yourselves created. The sorceresses, clad in fearful garments, undertaking wicked rituals to cast deadly spells on innocent humans. The fearsome sorceresses, who scorch the green fields with merciless magic, and turn warm hometowns to ice. What utter rubbish.
President Deling: …?
Edea: Yet now that one of those fearsome sorceresses from your fantasies has become Galbadia’s ally, you heave a sigh of relief? Layering fantasy atop of fantasy…who is it that's dreaming?
President Deling: E, Edea, what on earth... Ede---! [dies]
Edea: But reality is not so kind. It is not kind in the least. Thus, you miserable fools, you have no choice! Retreat into your own fantasies! And I shall continue this dance for you in that world of fantasy! I shall continue this dance into the future, forevermore, as the sorceress who brings forth your fears! You and I, and this ultimate [final] fantasy we create together. There, life and death are but sweet dreams. The sorceress, and this fantasy, for all eternity! Together with Galbadia, the sorceress’ minion, for all eternity!
[Exits; brings statues to life to attack the heroine]
Edea: A sorceress would appear to require a sacrifice and a wicked ritual.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):Remake trailer" , posted Mon 3 Feb 17:53
quote:
Okay, it’s loud and dumb, just like every FFVII-related thing that wasn’t the original, but even I have to admit the newest trailer is pretty hot.
..... meh.
I had to google who all these characters were, and now I dread that what used to be a sequence of 1 hour with forgettable paper characters is going to be dragged on for 10h with horribly written SQEX2020 characters they can milk in all their FF spin-offs.
Speaking of spin-offs, we've seen the Cloud/Sephiroth fight so often in different, flanderized games, that even in a context where it finally makes sense, it only makes me sigh a long "oh... THAT again..."
Barret and Red XIII look good, though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
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| "Re(3):Remake trailer" , posted Wed 5 Feb 08:31
quote:
Is the Nibelheim stuff the first time we've seen something post Midgard?
Also, that English VO is pretty stiff.
I think the Nibelheim reactor scene is just Cloud's delusion when they're in one of the first two reactors, judging from how they've cut it. The only beyond-Midgard thing I've seen is having a fight with Jenova there, rather than aboard that crappy cargo ship. Meanwhile, the Japanese voice actors have been the only redeeming features of two decades of crappy FFVII spinoffs.
In the end, what Iggy said about padding out the story with unimportant characters applies to the whole history of weak FFVII spinoffs. Even the only acceptable one, Crisis Core, is still rammed full of junk that detracts from the original scenes it recreates. On the other hand, Scarlett using a soldier as a footrest reminds me of Cefca having soldiers clean sand off his boots, so there's that.
quote:
What system is this coming out for? Considering the protracted pace that Square Enix has employed so far will the second FF7 chunk manage to make it to the shelves before the PS5 launches?
In the highly unlikely event this project ever finishes and somehow manages to have parts 1 to ? look like the same game, I believe they've said this first part will also be on PS5.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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sword in hand
