| |  "Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 12:59  
https://www.snk-corp.co.jp/us/games/ssngc/
Starts free for a week on Epic Games Store, then comes to Steam, PS4 and Switch afterwards.
Has SS1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Vanilla, 5 Special. And remember that lone loketest with the images of a different version of 5 Special with yellow lifebars? It was actually completed, but was just never released, until now. Introducing SS5 Perfect. It has additional tweaks/fixes and adds a brand new full story mode for the 5 Sp cast.
https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1265472772928462849?s=20
https://twitter.com/ManChest/status/1265478189066776577?s=20
A couple twitter threads regarding some more information about SS5 Perfect.
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| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
XBL: IAMDC1
Wii: n/a
STM: N/A
CFN: n/a
| "Re(1):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Wed 27 May 13:38
quote:
https://www.snk-corp.co.jp/us/games/ssngc/
Starts free for a week on Epic Games Store, then comes to Steam, PS4 and Switch afterwards.
Has SS1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Vanilla, 5 Special. And remember that lone loketest with the images of a different version of 5 Special with yellow lifebars? It was actually completed, but was just never released, until now. Introducing SS5 Perfect. It has additional tweaks/fixes and adds a brand new full story mode for the 5 Sp cast.
https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1265472772928462849?s=20
https://twitter.com/ManChest/status/1265478189066776577?s=20
A couple twitter threads regarding some more information about SS5 Perfect.
That's awesome. I like it, Thanks for the threads.
Happy to play an unreleased game. Wish we can get more in the future.
Long Live I AM!
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| | "Re(7):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 12:24
the story is totally new! never before seen. It was meant to be a bridge (sort of) between V and VI, though there are some dream match elements to both of those games frankly. Anyone who can read japanese, by the way, I recommend you play it in the original language, because having translated this stuff, we only get 16 characters across, in 8 rows, to tell a story. In Japanese you can do a lot with that. In English... you can do like 1/3 of that, especially without breaking words apart.
It was neat to work on, and the fact the game got found at all is a miracle. Hope y'all enjoy!
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| | "Re(9):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Thu 28 May 18:27
I had totally forgotten about that red logo thing!!!
As a self-proclaimed big fan of the game, there is only one honorable way out of this (after buying the game, obviously).
I'm quite fascinated by how SNK does everything in their power to kill their already moribund fan base on PC (at least the one that pays for their games). After releasing KOF14 one year later with barely a netcode, releasing the new SS on Stadia, now it goes to EGS, the platform without a functioning controller interface, and that's full of young players who don't care about fighting games...
I understand they are struggling and in the short term the deal is probably a good thing, but I hope they're not surprised when the game again sells terrible numbers once it actually reaches Steam. I've never seen a company trying so bad to deflate their audience. After the whole pandemic thing forcing tournaments online, if KOF15 still has terrible netcode without crossplay, I... well I won't be surprised actually.
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| PSN: Kusanagi82
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: n/a
| "Re(8):Samurai Shodown NeoGeo Collection info" , posted Sat 30 May 05:37
quote:
the story is totally new! never before seen. It was meant to be a bridge (sort of) between V and VI, though there are some dream match elements to both of those games frankly. Anyone who can read japanese, by the way, I recommend you play it in the original language, because having translated this stuff, we only get 16 characters across, in 8 rows, to tell a story. In Japanese you can do a lot with that. In English... you can do like 1/3 of that, especially without breaking words apart.
It was neat to work on, and the fact the game got found at all is a miracle. Hope y'all enjoy!
Thank you for your hard work and dedication!! I'm totally picking this up for PS4.
"Those who follow the path of a warrior must be ready to die in order to stand for one's convictions live for one's convictions die for one's convictions"
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| | "Re(1):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sat 13 Jun 02:22
quote:
Even if your computer can't play the game, even if you loathe Epic and its business practices, even if you are happy playing the games with superior fan-made online, I highly recommend that everybody goes and makes an Epic account and adds the game to their inventory (you don't even have to download it!). It costs you nothing, Epic has already paid SNK for this (if not paying them additional money for licenses past some point), and SNK gets to see that people want Samurai Shodown.
In particular, I want more brandon x SNK collaborations!
I'm already getting it just to see the new story content!
Eh.
Say what you want, I'm still waiting next week to get it on Steam.
Giving that specific game for free feels like a hook so specifically designed to suck me into the EGS ecosystem that it becomes almost too suspicious.
Like, say, if Capcom replaced the Nemesis-like enemy chasing you around in the new Resident Evil game with a redesigned Chris Redfield that looks like that dumb himbo you used to date for his insanely good looks for a while but by the time RE6 came out you decided you needed someone who had read at least one book in his entire life so you went your separate ways and you were pretty proud of yourself for having made this grown-up decision but a few years later he suddenly pops up in your timeline looking even hotter than ever and you're like "damn, I made a huge mistake".
That would look crazy suspicious and I would not fall for such an obvious trap.
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| | "Re(2):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sat 13 Jun 04:12
quote:
Even if your computer can't play the game, even if you loathe Epic and its business practices, even if you are happy playing the games with superior fan-made online, I highly recommend that everybody goes and makes an Epic account and adds the game to their inventory (you don't even have to download it!). It costs you nothing, Epic has already paid SNK for this (if not paying them additional money for licenses past some point), and SNK gets to see that people want Samurai Shodown.
In particular, I want more brandon x SNK collaborations!
I'm already getting it just to see the new story content!
Eh.
Say what you want, I'm still waiting next week to get it on Steam.
Giving that specific game for free feels like a hook so specifically designed to suck me into the EGS ecosystem that it becomes almost too suspicious.
Like, say, if Capcom replaced the Nemesis-like enemy chasing you around in the new Resident Evil game with a redesigned Chris Redfield that looks like that dumb himbo you used to date for his insanely good looks for a while but by the time RE6 came out you decided you needed someone who had read at least one book in his entire life so you went your separate ways and you were pretty proud of yourself for having made this grown-up decision but a few years later he suddenly pops up in your timeline looking even hotter than ever and you're like "damn, I made a huge mistake".
That would look crazy suspicious and I would not fall for such an obvio
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
In my case, I have the Epic store for the sake of Unreal Engine development experiments.
However, you can also choose to get it... .and then not play it on through Epic store at all. Frankly, the user experience of the Epic store is pretty bad! And with everything else they've got shady going on, I'm pretty ok with people not giving any money to Epic! You could basically make an account on their website, get the game, and never install their godforsaken launcher.
Basically I'd like to throw SNK a bone, and this costs me zero dollars to do so.
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| | "Re(2):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sat 13 Jun 21:18
quote:
Giving that specific game for free feels like a hook so specifically designed to suck me into the EGS ecosystem that it becomes almost too suspicious.
Giving that particular game away for free was presumably meant to be the hook to get people to buy SamSho 2019 on Epic. Which might have worked slightly better if the ARK giveaway hadn't been delayed to the same week.
But the giveaways really aren't that bad as an attempt to get people to use the Epic store.
The biggest difference between Epic and others is the scale and speed of Epic's efforts. Other storefronts might seek exclusives, but are much more selective. Other storefronts might offer dirt cheap prices or give games away for free, but they generally get the publisher to foot part or even all of the bill in the process. Epic has spread its money far and wide, giving cash to pretty much anyone that will take it.
Valve lured PC gamers to Steam by making it a requirement of Half-Life 2. From there, Valve convinced other publishers to use Steam, first by marketing it as a useful service, but later (once Steam achieved market dominance) with the perception that a Steam release was pretty much "required" for a PC game to be successful. As more publishers began to use Steam, Steam accounts became requirements just to continue to be a PC gamer, even if you never bought a game through Steam. Valve continued to lure customers, and crushed competing storefronts into irrelevance, through aggressive race-to-the-bottom discount practices (which it convinced publishers to effectively pay for).
While GOG's biggest gimmick is the offer of DRM-free versions of games, the store lured customers to the store with the ability to claim for "free" DRM-free versions of select games that the customer owned elsewhere, and has also given away simply for free (no prior ownership required) a number of games over the years. I don't believe I've ever bought a game through GOG, but my GOG account says that I own 155 games.
Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Activision, and the rest have all used combinations of exclusives and "free" games to both force and lure potential customers to their services.
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| | "Re(3):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Sun 14 Jun 01:02
quote:
Valve lured PC gamers to Steam by making it a requirement of Half-Life 2. From there, Valve convinced other publishers to use Steam, first by marketing it as a useful service, but later (once Steam achieved market dominance) with the perception that a Steam release was pretty much "required" for a PC game to be successful. As more publishers began to use Steam, Steam accounts became requirements just to continue to be a PC gamer, even if you never bought a game through Steam. Valve continued to lure customers, and crushed competing storefronts into irrelevance, through aggressive race-to-the-bottom discount practices (which it convinced publishers to effectively pay for).
I think that reading was correct 10 years ago, but it really ignores the current situation of the platform. Like, Steam is rarely the cheapest place to buy the games anymore, key resellers are almost always 10 or 20% cheaper, even for preorders.
The real value of Steam in 2020 comes from all the features that are often lacking in other digital stores: easy refunds, gits, centralisation of mods, controller support, reviews, guides, discussions, direct access to the devs for smaller titles, free key generation for publishers, regional pricing (though a few corporations screw that up, for smaller devs it's something that wouldn't be possible to do on their own)... it's much more than just a launcher. And that's not even talking of all the initiatives regarding Linux, Vulkan, VR...
The biggest issue of Steam in 2020 is Valve's libertarian attitude towards society that has allowed alt-right, neo-nazis and general hate speech goons to flourish unchecked on their platform. When even Twitter is doing better than you, you really should start questioning if you're the bad guys.
GOG's main draft, along with being DRM-free, used to be the "abandonware" section where you could get old games that have been delisted everywhere and have them run on modern PCs. The issue they have now is that they have almost listed every important game in that category, and since by default more modern games become more available, the well is running dry.
They also have the other facet of Steam's "almost everything can go on Steam, even shovelware asset flips": their curation process is really not my cup of tea. When they rejected Heaven's Vault, that was a giant red flag for me.
Epic's only draw really are the free games and the short term plan for developers who don't see themselves investing in building a fan base (which makes sense if you need the money now to stay afloat, and not in two years when you're bankrupt). Origin and UPlay not any different from Nintendo's eShop.
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| | "Re(7):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Fri 19 Jun 04:22
quote:
believe it or not, when it comes to retaining customers and stuff, a lot of indies have turned to mailing lists because they're opt-in and show that the person is actually interested in what you have to say, so they get better engagement than, for example, a twitter follow.
yeah, it's weird times out there, folks are trying everything!!
I think in recent years more people have started to realize that Twitter isn't necessarily as all-encompassing and ever-present as it appears. Apparently less then a quarter of internet users use Twitter, and less than half of those Twitter users will be on Twitter daily. (And even Twitter acknowledges that up to 8.5% of its active accounts may actually be bots.)
I probably check Twitter a handful of times per month, generally when something else prompts me to remember I have a Twitter account, and thus I miss pretty much any Twitter announcements directly. I get most of my Twitter news from forums where other people post Twitter links.
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| | "Re(8):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Fri 19 Jun 07:33
quote:
I probably check Twitter a handful of times per month, generally when something else prompts me to remember I have a Twitter account, and thus I miss pretty much any Twitter announcements directly. I get most of my Twitter news from forums where other people post Twitter links.
yeah, I think it's mostly that people have started to mostly engage with one form of social media primarily, and ignore the other ones unless something happens there. twitter happens to be the one I'm on, and it's quite active for me, but I'm already recognizing that the audience is aging up with me, and not really being replaced by younger people, who are going elsewhere.
There's kind of a stereotype that 50+ year olds are on facebook, 35 year olds are on twitter, 25 year olds are on instagram, and teens are on tik tok, and... I think this is one stereotype that's not far off from truth.
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| | "Re(9):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remind" , posted Fri 19 Jun 10:59
quote:
I probably check Twitter a handful of times per month, generally when something else prompts me to remember I have a Twitter account, and thus I miss pretty much any Twitter announcements directly. I get most of my Twitter news from forums where other people post Twitter links.
yeah, I think it's mostly that people have started to mostly engage with one form of social media primarily, and ignore the other ones unless something happens there. twitter happens to be the one I'm on, and it's quite active for me, but I'm already recognizing that the audience is aging up with me, and not really being replaced by younger people, who are going elsewhere.
There's kind of a stereotype that 50+ year olds are on facebook, 35 year olds are on twitter, 25 year olds are on instagram, and teens are on tik tok, and... I think this is one stereotype that's not far off from truth.
I have all sorts of notions about social networks which are entirely unproveable but are amusing to think about.
One of them is that unless you are a big media star with broad appeal, social media algorithms of today will inevitably ghetto-ize you with people like yourself. Because they will aim to direct people to you who are similar to those you engage most with, inevitably any given social media platform will be perceived by its users to be "aging up" because all of the discovery functionality will be heavily weighted towards things like yourself.
Another one is that there will continue to be markets for new social media platforms every few years, at least until there are endemic monopolies (e.g. if China were to mandate that the only social network allowed to operate in China is WeChat and weibo). The reason for this is two-fold: one is that youth will specifically want to NOT use the same social network that their parents are on: "It doesn't matter what it is, if my mom and dad use it, I DON'T WANT IT!" The cohort to this is the desire for a place that can be your "own stomping grounds". A social network that is relatively new can feel like that fresh pasture that your friends can be on, even if the truth of that is entirely based on perception. Inevitably this becomes the one you stick with because all your friends are on it, and the cycle repeats.
A third one is that video games will serve ever-increasingly large audiences as a social network. As a generation grows up with online games that form a major part of their life and a major means of communication, it winds up becoming a major de facto social network for them, and it serves as the SNS/platform bridge across the other social networks that the friends playing that game use.
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| | "Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic remin" , posted Fri 19 Jun 13:08:
These talks about social media are very interesting. To add on, there's certainly differences in social media usage between countries. Taking Japan as an example, the top Social media is LINE with around 84 million active users/accounts, followed by Twitter (45 million), Instagram (33 million), Facebook (26 million), and Tiqtoq (9.5 million). Whatsapp is non-existant.
LINE is pretty much the de facto social media here, so much so that the government used it during the early stages of the Coronavirus outbreak to check via questionnaires on how much of the population might be having symptoms. Most people here use a combination of LINE and another social media which usage is divided by age and purpose; Twitter is widely used for catching up to things and the core users are in their 20's and 30's (median is 35), while Instagram and TiqToq serves the more younger age range around 10's-20's. Instagram gets used by older age users too, since it allows for more text than Twitter and negative feedback is generally considered Taboo. Meanwhile Tiqtoq is used by the younger gens that grew up with smartphones and live in the hassle-free era; it does a good job letting them express themselves with filters and music, sort of like the "yattemita" clips during the NicoNico era but with more ease.
Facebook is a bit wonky; users of age 20's-30's make the bulk of their registered users but their core users are around age 40. However for entertainment sectors interested in trying to reach out to this older generation, it doesn't nessesarily mean that Facebook is the solution because it's used generally as a business oriented social media, ergo the higher age-- people would probably frown on succumbing to their hobbies on Facebook unlike how they would on other social medias.
I do wonder about gaming though, with the younger generation. At least here, they're used to subscription services and F2P games that the potentials of monetizing from them seems lower than with other generations. For example the core income here for SNS game publishers reportedly come from those in their 30's-40's, which makes sense considering multiple variables. (to me personally, it feels like the younger generation spend more on merchandise than games)
[this message was edited by Professor on Fri 19 Jun 22:07] |
Platinum Carpet V.I.P - THE FOOL  | "Re(2):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 02:27
quote:
The reason for this is two-fold: one is that youth will specifically want to NOT use the same social network that their parents are on: "It doesn't matter what it is, if my mom and dad use it, I DON'T WANT IT!" The cohort to this is the desire for a place that can be your "own stomping grounds".
I wonder if in a few generations, all the kids will be on Facebook because their parents would think "that's what my parents used!".
A social platform with only your best friends from school, but also your grand-parents so they can see what you like and give you appropriate presents for Christmas. OK, your grand parents might still post some weird out of touch and racist thing from time to time, but it's not different from any family dinner so you know how to ignore that.
quote:
At least here, they're used to subscription services and F2P games that the potentials of monetizing from them seems lower than with other generations. For example the core income here for SNS game publishers reportedly come from those in their 30's-40's, which makes sense considering multiple variables. (to me personally, it feels like the younger generation spend more on merchandise than games)
That would explain why most of the gacha games being launched are from licenses that are 10 or 20 years old (or even older, like the recent Captain Tsubasa gacha, or Yuyu Hakusho gacha), instead of something popular now among kids like Kimetsu no yaiba.
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| | "Re(2):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 03:17:
quote:
Facebook usage in Japan
In some ways it's like what one portion of Twitter is: a method for just blasting out corporate messaging.
Does it wind up being like LinkedIn's "social" features, which to me feel very cold and alien because the entire purpose of LinkedIn is to try to get a job? What do normal people (as opposed to corporate entities) tend to communicate on Facebook in Japan, given that there's a clear line of personal/fluff that comes across as gauche there?
A thing which I find Twitter has never really solved (and that they have no intention of solving) is that Twitter in its own original stated purpose was not a medium for conversations, but for broadcasting: it was something to send out brief thoughts/messages, hence "tweets". But because it has the option for replying, it has inevitably been used as a medium for conversations/dialogues, in spite of it inherently not being designed for that. People have had to try to hack up their own long-message things, there's a twitter unroller, etc. The whole medium is fundamentally flawed for what people are trying to use it for, but because everyone is on it and it's where all the hot topics are, everyone continues to try to use it for that. And I think the effects of that are not insignificant! By making discourse more inefficient, it's inevitable that the level of discourse is lowered.
quote:
monetization of a younger audience
I do think a confounding factor is the time/money balance that has been present with every generation of the past several decades: the younger generation has time but not money, while the older generation has money but not time. It is easy for a younger person who has a great deal of time but not money to amuse themselves by jumping between a bunch of different mobage or to spend hours and hours grinding away at one. The older person may simply not have the time for that, or wants to utilize the power of their money to get what they want. If you look at gacha rates, 1% rates for the shiny super rare whatever means that getting one RIGHT THIS MOMENT is simply not something that is going to happen for an average younger person because they just don't have literally a few hundred dollars they can blow on a whim. Merchandising winds up working better with them because whether they buy a cheaper item or save up for a more expensive item, the thing they want is the thing they get.
The same goes with buying a pokemon game for your kids: you can plunk down $60 now, and now your kid is set for entertainment and socializing for months! One-time fees! Hooray!
I think there's an interesting question around the idea of thresholds of value/entry: arcades were great for kids back then even if there was no guarantee of total play time because the cost of entry was low enough for them to access, and access to games was valuable. Now that access to games is no longer valuable what with F2P games and the ubiquity of computing devices, the question becomes what is the threshold of something sufficiently valuable versus affordable for a younger person?
[this message was edited by Spoon on Sat 20 Jun 05:26] |
| | "Re(3):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sat 20 Jun 16:52:
quote:
Facebook usage in Japan
In some ways it's like what one portion of Twitter is: a method for just blasting out corporate messaging.
Does it wind up being like LinkedIn's "social" features, which to me feel very cold and alien because the entire purpose of LinkedIn is to try to get a job? What do normal people (as opposed to corporate entities) tend to communicate on Facebook in Japan, given that there's a clear line of personal/fluff that comes across as gauche there?
From my personal experience, people tend to use Facebook as sort of a resume and contact window to keep in touch with associates they've met at work-related parties etc. They do talk about hobbies within acceptable constraints, such as traveling, DJ'ing, surfing etc. (I swear though, it feels like most of the hobbies that my associates mention on Facebook are things they can write off as expenditures from whatever current project they've been handed.)
The thing with Facebook is, when it was first introduced to Japan, the fundamental notion was that it was mandatory for users to use their real name and identity. That more or less ended up setting the direction of Facebook usage in Japan. There are of course people that use Facebook for personal non-business use, but it's no different that they tend to play safe and it's rare to see people bringing up subjects that can potentially stain their reputation.
Twitter on the other hand allows for anonymous and multi-account usage, so the way people take advantage of it is very versatile. It's pretty common for people to use multiple accounts for their different hobbies and purposes, for example you can have one account for communication with hobby friends, another account for trading items, another for local shopping purposes and campaigns, etc. The text limit isn't a huge problem for Japan as it is for English since the language is compressed, although admittedly 140 letters still isn't enough to go into long discussions.
quote:
I think there's an interesting question around the idea of thresholds of value/entry: arcades were great for kids back then even if there was no guarantee of total play time because the cost of entry was low enough for them to access, and access to games was valuable. Now that access to games is no longer valuable what with F2P games and the ubiquity of computing devices, the question becomes what is the threshold of something sufficiently valuable versus affordable for a younger person?
This is a very good question. From what I understand the average monthly allowance of a highschooler here is around 6,300 yen, plus 10,000 yen for smartphone/communication bills although that differs between households on whether the parent directly pays for it or hands the money to their child. 6,300 yen isn't much so taking on a part-time job would be very logical (average in Tokyo after tax is around 1,050yen/h). For Junior highschoolers it's a bit tougher since the average allowance is 2,500 yen and by Japanese law you can't get hired until March 31 after your 15th birthday. Gradeschoolers get a measely average of 1,000 yen.
At anime shops for example, most items are offered at an affordable price around 350-980 yen. These would be things like trading cards, clear file folders, gashas/ichiban-kuji. As it might sound, many of these products are random packs so trading/selling becomes a prequisite; a great way of keeping single prices down but having the customer keep buying. In comparison, SNS gashas at their 3000yen per ten-roll price isn't within sensible range for kids. Console games on the other hand makes more sense, since you can buy and sell at a used store and the margin you'd end up paying would be somewhere between 2,000-3,000, given that you have the console to begin with.
Come to think, that sort of brings another explanation on why fighting games aren't too popular amongst the younger age range-- it's too expensive when considering the need of a console and stick.
It's great going to the anime shops; you can hear conversations and the livelyhood of younger voices in real-time. It's quite different from the dried enthusiasm of old gamers for sure.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sat 20 Jun 19:00] |
| | "Re(5):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Sun 21 Jun 00:24:
quote:
It's great going to the anime shops; you can hear conversations and the livelyhood of younger voices in real-time. It's quite different from the dried enthusiasm of old gamers for sure.
If I may ask, what is it they ususally say?
If you mean to ask how their conversation tends to be different from gamers, gamers tend to talk about systems, whereas they talk more about the characters (they're looking at merchandises, so obviously so).
It should be noted that anime shop customers tends to be more girls than boys which is a big difference from game shops. But the random stuff they talk about actually aren't that different (did you pick this up already?, hey where should we go after this?, Oh yeah he/she's totally my recommended character, etc etc).
Also, gamers usually hit a shop to buy a particular title they have in mind, but customers to anime shops make their visits more randomly and they commonly buy merchandise for multiple titles, so the conversation can likewise span through multiple titles in a short time.
[this message was edited by Professor on Sun 21 Jun 02:16] |
| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(8):Re(10):SamSho NeoGeo Coll. free on Epic" , posted Tue 23 Jun 09:56
quote:
That really makes it sound like what LinkedIn wants its social features to be.
"What's a linkedin? Can you eat it?" 
Yeah, no one uses Linkedin in Japan. Professor's totally right, of course: Facebook started out in a limited fashion due to the real name thing, and had higher earlier usage among the international/multilingual crowd. The real name requirement meant that it also eventually filled the networking role that Linkedin somehow missed completely. I don't remember when Linkedin was first available in Japanese, but Facebook was pretty early on, and I suspect there were other factors, too. As a networking tool, Linkedin might be TOO serious: there's nothing "fun" about it, and it looks so "professional" that you'd feel uncomfortable posting much of anything lest you look like you're officially representing your company, and it's hard to escape the assumption you're on there looking for a job, whereas Facebook you could play sort of ambiguously. So nowadays, Facebook in Japan can be a funny mix of both your actual friends and some professional contacts that would seem less appropriate in the US unless you were a serious Silicon Valley type.
In conclusion: sorry, Mixi! Line is the place to be for MMC.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):SNK Roster Leaks might be moving again!" , posted Tue 21 Jul 20:38
quote:
Seen some circulation about a reddit post detailing some leaks that may have been debunked by now.
SNK Influencer Leak
In any case, the oven is getting hot with the latest installment of KOF coming soon. We could start a conversation about the leaks but I will start off witb what I would like to see in the next or future KOF game.
Sorry no team names,
Kyo Iori Chizumaru
Syo BaeDal Lilly Kane
Shingo ShenWoo GaiTendo
Leona Whip Marco(or Fio maybe?)
Mai Andy Hokutomaru
Yuri King B,Jenet
Ryo Robert Krushnood
Kim DongHwan JaeHoon
Sie Momoko Bao
Kula Foxy Dianna (or candy)
Terry Rock Alice(who would go with this team? Had a hard time choosing)
BlueMary Kevin Vanessa
Gato Hotaru Silber
Freeman Adelheid Malin
Grant Kain Hein
Kasumi Hinako Xiang Fei
Joe H, Payak Sitipitak, Rob Python
Good question, and I love the idea of Khushnood joining Ryo and Robert (though I'd prefer him to have his name from the Japanese version, Marco... who thought it would be a good idea to name a character as Khushnood??).
Two things I'd like to see in the next KOF are the original formation of the Women Team (King, Mai, Yuri - hopefully without the silly clothing damage this time, or at least give that effect to the AOF guys as well) and the return of Yashiro, Shermie and Chris. Maybe this time we'd be able to find out if their story as a band looking for revenge against Iori was just a façade to hide their Orochi agenda, or if they really were unaware that they were three of the Orochi kings and had their personalities taken over by the Orochi blood. I mean, some dialogues in SNK Heroines seem to indicate some of the girls there do have a friendly impression of Shermie...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):SNK Roster Leaks might be moving again!" , posted Wed 22 Jul 02:23
quote:
Seen some circulation about a reddit post detailing some leaks that may have been debunked by now.
SNK Influencer Leak
In any case, the oven is getting hot with the latest installment of KOF coming soon. We could start a conversation about the leaks but I will start off witb what I would like to see in the next or future KOF game.
Sorry no team names,
Kyo Iori Chizumaru
Syo BaeDal Lilly Kane
Shingo ShenWoo GaiTendo
Leona Whip Marco(or Fio maybe?)
Mai Andy Hokutomaru
Yuri King B,Jenet
Ryo Robert Krushnood
Kim DongHwan JaeHoon
Sie Momoko Bao
Kula Foxy Dianna (or candy)
Terry Rock Alice(who would go with this team? Had a hard time choosing)
BlueMary Kevin Vanessa
Gato Hotaru Silber
Freeman Adelheid Malin
Grant Kain Hein
Kasumi Hinako Xiang Fei
Joe H, Payak Sitipitak, Rob Python
Good question, and I love the idea of Khushnood joining Ryo and Robert (though I'd prefer him to have his name from the Japanese version, Marco... who thought it would be a good idea to name a character as Khushnood??).
Two things I'd like to see in the next KOF are the original formation of the Women Team (King, Mai, Yuri - hopefully without the silly clothing damage this time, or at least give that effect to the AOF guys as well) and the return of Yashiro, Shermie and Chris. Maybe this time we'd be able to find out if their story as a band looking for revenge ag
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Khushnood is an ok name! Really the tragedy is that the last name "Butt" is a normal last name in the Middle East, but looks silly when romanized. I recall one person from Pakistan mentioned that because sometimes have romanized names that wind up being funny enough that they keep them, but others look bad (like "Butt") so they register a different English name to avoid the stigma of having a dumb-looking name.
I think the bigger problem with Khushnood is that this new name is unnecessary, changes his heritage, and goes against the intended setting for this character. He was designed to be a Brazilian, and the Brazil/Japan connection is well-documented in terms of culture as well as in terms of martial arts. That was totally fine, except I guess SNK of America believed that Americans expect anybody with a Latino-sounding name to need to conform to American stereotypes of Mexicans. In fact, the first time I saw Khushnood Butt, I thought "oh cool, an Indian who does Karate! That's just like two of my pals from elementary school! That's awesome!" But when I learned about how this name was used to wipe out an entirely different character who had his own cultural heritage, I didn't feel so good about it.
Now, would I want an Indian or Middle Eastern world warrior? I ABSOLUTELY WOULD!
In fact, Indian martial arts and characters are terribly under-utilized in fighting games, when there's a rich history there to make use of, to say nothing of Indians practicing martial arts from elsewhere!
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| | "Re(3):SNK Roster Leaks might be moving again!" , posted Wed 22 Jul 16:20
quote:
Now, would I want an Indian or Middle Eastern world warrior? I ABSOLUTELY WOULD!
In fact, Indian martial arts and characters are terribly under-utilized in fighting games, when there's a rich history there to make use of, to say nothing of Indians practicing martial arts from elsewhere!
Aside from Dhalsim, I can't remember any other fighter from India!
I think we need a less silly, more serious looking capoeira fighter in KOF. What we had until now? A kindergarten psychic loli, and Zarina that is dressed and moves more like for dancing than fighting.
Probably all the new fighters introduced in 14 are too much silly looking or trying too hard to not be normal: the boy with the pillow, the chinese shonen anime protagonist, the chinese girls with the masks, the crazy Kyary Pamyu Pamyu clone, the crazy guy escaped from jail, the cool looking cold butler with a chess theme and gravity powers out from some other shonen anime, the boy with the cyborg arm, the brazilian ninja weaboo, the mysterious hooded fighter with sand powers.
The most normal looking are the pachi slot girls and Kim's master and wife.
Not that I dislike them, I like them a lot, but some more "normal" looking fighter sometimes would not be bad.
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| | "Re(2):Porting samurai" , posted Fri 25 Sep 15:43:
quote:
As for head tracking, it’s been in SF since SF4, and I am almost certain it has been in VF and Tekken longer than that. Nuts, now I’m curious as to which fighting game was the first to have heard tracking. It’s probably some weird old PSX game like Psychic Force.
I played SF4/5 and I didn't notice it much (aside from probably obvious scenario like one player standing and the other jumping?), there is something different in SS that made it more evident, but I don't know what. Or I am totally drunk, I don't know.
Update:
I checked SF5, now I know what is different.
I used Ryu vs Abigail, and when they are standing they look straight forward, Ryu looks up only if he is basically next to Abigail or crouching close to him, Abigail head position didn't change much. Obviously if one of the two is jumping the other look up.
In SS what surprised me is the naturalness (sorry, I don't know if there is a better english word, I can't find it) of the movement, even at the start of the match, Shizumaru vs Earthquake, Earthquake has his head slight tilted looking down, while Shizumaru without changing much his pose, his eyes are straight looking at Earthquake's eyes. He's looking straight in his eyes. So what is really different is that together with head tracking there is also eye tracking. And is pretty noticeable on characters with big eyes.
I need to load KOF14 again and check what they did there.
Now I really want Kusaregedo to be in the game to look down on every other puny samurai in that game with his big sexy eyes.
[this message was edited by Lord SNK on Tue 6 Oct 15:53] |
| | "Kocchi kocchi!" , posted Thu 11 Mar 23:30:
Yes, Yuri's back! And with her long braid, too! Her short hair was nice for one or two games, but I must admit I'm glad she got her iconic braid back.
Now, will Yuri be in the AOF Team or in the Women Team? It's hard to picture Ryo and Robert without her (there's Takuma, but he's not as popular), but on the other hand, every time she teams up with King and Mai, it's nostalgic in the best way...
Whatever team she's in, SNK, please don't add the clothing damage to her this time. We're long past the days where humiliating women was acceptable.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Thu 11 Mar 23:40] |
| | "Re(4):Kocchi kocchi!" , posted Sun 14 Mar 08:58:
quote:
- Shatter all expectations
- Yuri is in the new KOF
Sorry SNK, you can only have one of those things.
To be fair, some expectations aren't worth shattering. In Yuri's case, well, she's one of the most popular fighters in the entire KOF franchise, so if SNK removed her from XV, they'd have to add her later as DLC anyway. And then the fanbase would accuse them of being greedy for not putting her on the game from the very beginning.
quote:
Strongly Agreed! To this day, I still find it unfortunate that SNK didn't have the courage and made Wyler from Art Of Fighting 3 the only character that didn't follow the series tradition. (Reason: He was more skimpy than Mai Shiranui)
I suppose one can say Wyler technically does suffer clothing damage - except in his case, it happens before the fight, rather than after.
---
EDIT: now, you know what would really shatter my expectations? The return of the USA Team.
It's kinda sad that they're only in two games of the entire franchise as playable fighters (one of them being a dream match). And to be honest, I think Heavy D and Lucky are pretty cool character designs... Brian, not so much, but KOF could always use more big brawlers.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Mon 15 Mar 01:53] |
| | "Re(3):Shatter something" , posted Sat 27 Mar 07:39
quote:
It looks like SNK is indeed putting the band back together, the New Faces Team band that is.
Trailer #11 is Yashiro Nanakase
Next week should be interesting! SNK might throw us for a loop and reveal somebody from a separate team, much like they did when Joe Higashi was revealed.
It'll be cool if Shermie and Chris return, because not only will they be brought back into the 21st century with new models, they will be brought back into the KOF storyline again. It's very exciting to see what the next few reveals will be!
True. It could be Chris or Shermie, or Ryo or Robert, or Mai or King... or anyone, really.
As for Goenitz teaming up with Mature and Vice, I thought the two of them hated him (in fact, wasn't that one of the reasons for them to turn on him, besides them eventually starting to like Iori?). Then again, I remember reading that Mature and Vice don't like each other as well (not that they hate each other; more like they don't care about each other), so I guess they're not the kind of people guided by their emotions and the team-up with Goenitz could happen.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(4):Shatter something" , posted Sat 27 Mar 15:40
quote:
It'll be cool if Shermie and Chris return, because not only will they be brought back into the 21st century with new models, they will be brought back into the KOF storyline again. It's very exciting to see what the next few reveals will be!
Though its status is dubious, Shermie was already brought back for SNK Heroines. While not playable, Yashiro and Chris were also present in her in her ending.
I'd always wondered if the New Faces Team were truly dead anyway. Wasn't the story for New Faces vs Orochi New Faces that they'd split their forms for the tournament? If SNK had ever wanted to run with that idea, then it would have been possible that only the Orochi set sacrificed themselves, while the "normal" set survived...
Ah yes, I forget about Shermie's SNK Heroines appearance. Accoding to Oda, the game is canon with the KOF storyline, just set in a dream world.
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| | "Re(2):King Shatter something" , posted Thu 1 Apr 21:59
quote:
Woof, after the last few interesting reveals, King did shatter my expectations that she would look or sound good...
Oh well.
Interesting that they resurrected her AoF2 background. That's quite a deep cut... I wonder how many stages this game will end up having, they've been showing quite a few already, for a game so far away.
Good question. There used to be one stage per team in '94-'96 and XIV (and generic stages in the other games), right? Maybe some characters were introduced in stages that don't belong to them (like Yuri in Pao Pao Cafe, even though that location is more commonly associated to Fatal Fury)?
Anyway, I guess King's reveal indicates Yuri is in the Women Team, right? That is, unless SNK decides to bring back the XI version of the AOF Team (but I don't think most KOF fans would like that)... maybe we'll have the answer next week, if the featured character is Mai or some other lady (Kasumi, Mary, Alice...).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Nippon ichi!" , posted Fri 9 Apr 00:49
quote:
They should really honor her by bringing Sinclair and Charlotte into KOF as a team with an original sword wielder as the leader. That would liven up this roster a bit.
There is Foxy too, she is not dead, right?
Well, she was stabbed in the back (literally) in 2001 and wasn't shown ever since, but if I remember correctly, SNK said she actually survived.
---
Well, I suppose many of you already saw it, but Mai got her official trailer. And for the most part, it didn't shatter expectations - after all, she was already shown in the very first trailer for KOF XV.
What did kinda shatter expectations in her trailer is that it doesn't present her, King and Yuri as a team, which means at least one of them won't be in the Women Team. Yuri is the safest choice, probably being in the AOF Team, but who knows... there have been past instances where both King and Mai have also left the team to join other teams.
And it does bring the question: who will be the third member, after all? Nakoruru (now that she's an official KOF character, and possibly SNK's most famous female character after Mai)? Mary? Kasumi? Not Alice, I hope...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):Nippon ichi!" , posted Fri 9 Apr 03:43
quote:
who will be the third member, after all? Nakoruru I hadn't thought of it, but Mai and Nakoruru together would be a great team of ACTUAL SNK heroines.
I wonder if there's anyone that could join them, though... No offense to Blue Mary or King or Yuri, but they're a bit below the caliber of these two.
Mayyyyyyyyybe Fio ??? She never was as popular as either of them, but she would represent the only non-fighting game SNK franchise that's still alive?
Or maybe it'll be Jeanne Ryoko from World Heroes, with Jubei Yamada's moveset. Who knows.
.... our expectations will probably end up shattered next week when they'll announce "sorry, we forgot the end card. The team really is Yuri/King/Mai".
Athena, maybe? She's kind of a very well-known character, and if I'm not mistaken, she's actually the only female character in KOF who appears in all games.
Maybe my perception is wrong, but I always saw Mai, Nakoruru, Athena and Yuri as the four main women in SNK fighting games, with Leona and King following behind. I also consider Mai quite undeserving of the recognition she has, but that's another matter.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Nippon ichi!" , posted Fri 9 Apr 05:34
quote:
who will be the third member, after all? Nakoruru I hadn't thought of it, but Mai and Nakoruru together would be a great team of ACTUAL SNK heroines.
I wonder if there's anyone that could join them, though... No offense to Blue Mary or King or Yuri, but they're a bit below the caliber of these two.
Mayyyyyyyyybe Fio ??? She never was as popular as either of them, but she would represent the only non-fighting game SNK franchise that's still alive?
Or maybe it'll be Jeanne Ryoko from World Heroes, with Jubei Yamada's moveset. Who knows.
.... our expectations will probably end up shattered next week when they'll announce "sorry, we forgot the end card. The team really is Yuri/King/Mai".
Athena, maybe? She's kind of a very well-known character, and if I'm not mistaken, she's actually the only female character in KOF who appears in all games.
Maybe my perception is wrong, but I always saw Mai, Nakoruru, Athena and Yuri as the four main women in SNK fighting games, with Leona and King following behind. I also consider Mai quite undeserving of the recognition she has, but that's another matter.
We need to have a team of Ms. X, Claw Iori, regular Iori, Blood Riot Iori
To go along with Kyo-1, Kyo-2, Kusanagi, Kyo
To provide a little variety we'll have Kim, Jae Hoon, and Dong Hwan
And to make sure the game is competitively viable, we'll round out the cast with Takuma and Mr. Karate
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| | "Re(7):Nippon ichi!" , posted Sat 10 Apr 22:59
quote:
Funny, all so common. Are you from Brazil Just A Person?
Yes, I am. Which isn't a good thing right now, with the pandemic situation in Brazil and the borderline criminal way our president is conducting the situation, encouraging people to use medication that scientifical articles not only proved that don't work but can also bring serious collateral effects, refusing to adopt measures that can make people stay safe at home, doing almost no effort to buy vaccines and using his speeches to make people afraid of the vaccines (my mother, who I always considered a very intelligent person, was determined for a while not to take the vaccine, "thanks" to his speeches - fortunately she changed her mind now) and throwing all the blame for the hundreds of thousands of deaths onto anyone but himself. It's scary and frustrating, especially considering that many people in Brazil still believe in everything he says, no matter how blatant his lies can be.
...Sorry, I know this is not the right topic to talk about this. It's just that it doesn't feel great to be Brazilian right now (for the record, I love my country; it's this whole situation that I hate).
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quote:
Do you think that Mai's cow costume will be back in KOFXV?
That... would be nice. Not just for Mai, but all the SNK Heroines - if Street Fighter and Tekken can give their characters fanservice-y costumes every now and then, why can't KOF do the same, right?
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(8):Nippon ichi!" , posted Sun 11 Apr 00:55:
quote:
click here and skip to 4:30. You're welcome (or please forgive me
"Art imitating life imitating (Akiman) art!?" This is about as classy as Laura's "bonita" outfit, so needless to say, it's a reminder that Akiman and Kinu really ought to be given more chances to draw Laura. Maybe it will take everyone's mind off of the awfulness of Brazilian government right now, with my sympathies.
quote:
Do you think that Mai's cow costume will be back in KOFXV?
Even as someone who knows nothing about playing KOF, a heavy costume focus makes sense to me since KOF these days is clearly pretty dependent on nostalgia as opposed to enticing new people with fancy graphics, and if that's the case, it should be less work on a technical level to produce said costumes, too.
Now that I've made the requisite SNK-related comment, I can talk about Chun Li without going to jail and answer Iggy's comment! Yes, I think SFV Chun Li is actually one of the best: she has an acceptable mix of charges and quarter circles (the hadouken motion variant for hyakuretsukyaku is a great joy), her V-trigger's double-hits feel delicious, and she's nearly as beautiful as in SFIII and moves similarly. Most interesting version of Mai? I'll leave that to the people who actually belong in this thread!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 11 Apr 01:32] |
| | "Re(7):Nippon ichi!" , posted Wed 14 Apr 03:20
quote:
I would love to see a "remix" of CvS2 like how SSF2T got back in 2008. That was a gorgeous game.
This would be true love making! I remember playing CVS2 on my Dreamcast with VGA adapter back in the day and marveling at how pretty the backgrounds were, but it made the blocky sprites stand out that much more. There have been plenty of HD "hacks" of CVS2 like the widescreen edit for DC/GC and the HD remakes for MUGEN (my favorite being "Capcom VS SNK 3" with Shermie in the Capcom style), but nothing would compare to an official high definition re-release by Capcom. It wouldn't even take much effort, these days they could run the sprites through a filter like Waifu2x or ScaleFX with minimum effort, slap them back in the game and have great results, since they're probably too cheap to hire artists or even pixel artists to redraw the frames manually.
I read an article recently that said that "supposedly", for a modern fighting game to be made, the cost can skyrocket to almost 10 million. And that, to make a profit, it needs to sell over a million within a year at least.
I dunno, I still find it hard to believe, if that's the case. If so, then we wouldn't see a hi-def remake of CvS2, or MvC2, or any other game that deserves to be brought to the next-generation consoles. It's kinda heartbreaking.
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| | "Re(8):Nippon ichi!" , posted Wed 14 Apr 04:11
quote:
I would love to see a "remix" of CvS2 like how SSF2T got back in 2008. That was a gorgeous game.
This would be true love making! I remember playing CVS2 on my Dreamcast with VGA adapter back in the day and marveling at how pretty the backgrounds were, but it made the blocky sprites stand out that much more. There have been plenty of HD "hacks" of CVS2 like the widescreen edit for DC/GC and the HD remakes for MUGEN (my favorite being "Capcom VS SNK 3" with Shermie in the Capcom style), but nothing would compare to an official high definition re-release by Capcom. It wouldn't even take much effort, these days they could run the sprites through a filter like Waifu2x or ScaleFX with minimum effort, slap them back in the game and have great results, since they're probably too cheap to hire artists or even pixel artists to redraw the frames manually.
I read an article recently that said that "supposedly", for a modern fighting game to be made, the cost can skyrocket to almost 10 million. And that, to make a profit, it needs to sell over a million within a year at least.
I dunno, I still find it hard to believe, if that's the case. If so, then we wouldn't see a hi-def remake of CvS2, or MvC2, or any other game that deserves to be brought to the next-generation consoles. It's kinda heartbreaking.
A hi-res remake of CvS2 or MvC2 in the same way as SSFIIX HD Remix seems nearly impossible.
If I remember correctly, the original idea was to remake SFA3 and they (Capcom and/or Udon) realized SSFIIX would be much easier to remake thanks to the smaller roster and less animations for each character. Even then, the remake involved a lot of work in redrawing each frame, and the final result kinda divided opinions among the fanbase. Now imagine redrawing all sprites for games with 48-57 characters... it just doesn't seem viable.
That said, I've been watching some tournaments of 3rd Strike and Garou on the YouTube, and many of the videos show some sort of filter applied over the graphics. I don't know what you guys think, but I thought this solution, while simple, provided beautiful results - higher visual quality, while remaining faithful to the base material. Maybe this could be a solution to bring CvS2 and/or MvC2 back. And if Capcom took their time to release that MSH/MvC collection some years ago, I don't see why they couldn't do the same with these two games, both being much more popular.
That is, unless Marvel and/or SNK forbids them, of course. Marvel/Disney could definitely do that, but after SNK managed to release MotM, it wouldn't make sense for them to forbid a CvS2 re-release...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):Thighmaster" , posted Fri 16 Apr 20:50
quote:
I finally looked at photos of Fighter's History Dynamite and laughed my @$$ off at how blatant a SFII clone it was...but maybe an AWESOME one, just like Rusty is better than 80% of known Dracula games.
Oh, that reminds me of that interesting article about the creation of COTA, and how most games post SF2 were clones with very similar moves, and how COTA, even though it was a Capcom game, was very different (much more than, say, Vampire) and that helped it stand out.
I'm not sure it's entirely true (moveset wise, at the very least Mortal Kombat didn't really have similar archetypes such as "slow grappler" or "weird guy with very long normals"... and you could argue COTA had Cyclops being very Ryu-y at least), but in terms of general feel of the game, it was, indeed, farther away from Street Fighter than most of the competition (except maybe Samurai Spirits).
quote:
Hahaha, welcome to modern SNK most fighting games in the era of the mad scramble to recoup budgets amidst falling income!
Yup! Worked wonders on DOA and Soulcalibur 6!
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| | "Re(1):Chris" , posted Thu 29 Apr 21:06
quote:
Also interesting that they've dropped the pretense of the New Faces Team and went straight for calling this the Orochi Team, which now makes me wonder about the alternate versions. Shatter all expectations, right?
I assume that they are just being honest. They were the "New Faces" for KOF'97, when they were first introduced as new faces. That was 24 years ago, and around 12 main series games ago; they are no longer "new faces".
Going straight with "Team Orochi" is fitting, even more so if SNK wants to pull back a bit from their fully Orochi-powered forms for story reasons. Their Orochi forms don't exactly fit as a regular team entrant after all, particularly if the main story isn't Orochi-centered. (Mind, with the Sacred Treasures team being official, KOF15 might actually end up Orochi-centered.)
As for their alternate versions, my guess is that the Orochi versions will be post-release paid DLC.
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| | "Re(2):Chris" , posted Tue 4 May 01:39
quote:
https://youtu.be/zCJ0M1nraec
Where Yashiro and Shermie's redesigns I found refreshing, I kind of hate this one!
Also interesting that they've dropped the pretense of the New Faces Team and went straight for calling this the Orochi Team, which now makes me wonder about the alternate versions. Shatter all expectations, right?
Team Orochi fits, since they were formerly aligned with Orochi; SNK probably wanted to preserve their legacy somewhat.
I think Chris' redesign looks cool. Updated to fit a Gen-Z type of demographic, perhaps.
Wasn't there a KOF game (2002, I think) where Yashiro, Shermie and Chris could transform into their Orochi versions during the match as a DM? These trailers for XV only show their regular versions; I wonder if they'll be able to transform during battles (or, as suggested above, if SNK will add their Orochi versions as DLC)...
Also, with the three of them back, could this mean Mature and Vice will take some time off this year? That would be understandable (especially with Iori already having another team); still, it would be a little sad. But Yuri is already in XV, so I guess I'll end up playing whatever team she's in, anyway.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(1):Double Trouble" , posted Fri 7 May 01:08
quote:
Robert Garcia and what appears to be a shaved gorilla announced for KoF.
I always thought from the names of their moves that Ryo was supposed to be the tiger, and Robert was the dragon... was I wrong all along?
As for King being the third member, at first it seems wrong, since the AOF Team has been composed solely of Kyokugen-Ryu fighters since it first appeared... but thinking about it, it's also the first time we have a full AOF1 team (yeah, Takuma is AOF1's Mr. Karate, but... you know...), with the two heroes and the one villain who managed to change sides and who is still relevant (again, sorry, Takuma, but you've been eclipsed by King, Yuri and even Kasumi for a long time...). Plus, a multinational team, with Japan, Italy and France all represented in it. AND it shattered expectations. Sort of.
Now, who could Mai and Yuri be teaming up with this year? Nakoruru? Kasumi? Mary? Their team with May Lee in 2002 (the vanilla version) was kinda cool, too, even if it's not canon...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Double Trouble" , posted Fri 7 May 03:10
quote:
I always thought from the names of their moves that Ryo was supposed to be the tiger, and Robert was the dragon... was I wrong all along?
You forgot AOF3 intro!
King was alread a Kyokugen Team member in KOF2000, I don't remember if also in 2001 (no, probably not).
For the next women team member, there is still Alice as a possible next reveal. I hope she will disappear...
True, I forgot that intro... thanks for the link for the video!
About King in 2001, she was in the Women's Team with Mai, Hinako and Xiangfei (Yuri was the fourth member in the Kyokugen Team that year). But besides 2000, she was also part of the Kyokugen Team in XI, alongside Ryo and Yuri - which reminds me that if there was a KOF game whose teams really shattered expectations, it's definitely KOF XI: no Women's Team, no South Korea Team, no Mai, no Robert, Whip replacing Leona, a team with Kyo, Iori and Shingo...
As for Alice, I share your opinion. She's cute and all, but there are much better options to complete the Women's Team than her.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "SS Coming to Steam finally" , posted Mon 17 May 20:24
https://twitter.com/SNKPofficial_jp/status/1394110422928838665
Let's hope KOF15 doesn't take that long...
Also, let's hope they don't immediately bury the game with a stupid price and all DLC sold separately. KOF14 was pre-packed with all the DLC up to that point, so hopefully they go that route. Between the late release and the terrible netcode, it's not like the game will have much life online anyway.
The last character has been announced to be everyone's favorite boss, Amakusashirô Tokisada, a safe, but good choice with lots of potentially interesting gameplay options. After him will be GG's Baiken, and then... I don't think the game will get a 4th season (3 seasons is honestly much more than anyone thought the game will get!) but it's sad we didn't get to see Gen-An and Sieger come back in a modern game. Strange that Rera is still not in the game, and they had some more waifu potential with SenSS (Suzuhime) and even some time jump nonsense to add someone from the PS1 game. And of course Suija is nowhere to be seen...
OK, we need a season 4 actually.
I learned today that the colloquial name for this game (since it unfortunately doesn't have a name or even a subtitle to differentiate it from the rest of the series) is 令サム (for 令和). Which is a pretty good name... until you get in a conversation and you confuse the game with 零サム. I guess you were supposed to pronounce that one "Zerosamu"? Goddamit. No one told me!
Seriously SNK, give an actual name to your games, please.
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| | "Re(1):SS Coming to Steam finally" , posted Tue 18 May 05:48
quote:
https://twitter.com/SNKPofficial_jp/status/1394110422928838665
The last character has been announced to be everyone's favorite boss, Amakusashirô Tokisada, a safe, but good choice with lots of potentially interesting gameplay options. After him will be GG's Baiken, and then... I don't think the game will get a 4th season (3 seasons is honestly much more than anyone thought the game will get!) but it's sad we didn't get to see Gen-An and Sieger come back in a modern game. Strange that Rera is still not in the game, and they had some more waifu potential with SenSS (Suzuhime) and even some time jump nonsense to add someone from the PS1 game. And of course Suija is nowhere to be seen...
OK, we need a season 4 actually.
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
I would love to have seen Gen-An and Sieger come back as well. But who knows, maybe SNK will shatter expectations and reveal a Season 4 with them, plus surprise rollback.
Man, the lovely bunch that is the FGC are spewing flames across the web with this rollback issue, but it's not like this is the first game that doesn't have it out there. I do agree that these Japanese developers need to step up their game in regards to their online.
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| | "Re(3):Team Ikari" , posted Thu 20 May 22:45
quote:
I seem to have trouble posting the link, but you can find it on the SNK YouTube Channel.
They both look great! Although I was so distracted by that incredible new Metal Slug stage, I almost forgot them!
Out of everything, the Metal Slug Stage is what stood out to me too.
So far my expectations are kinda just being met.
Yes the stage is pretty awesome. Funny how the guys in the farthest part of the background moving all over the place. I think I saw one jumping in the water.
They look great, and so does the Metal Slug stage. And while Ralf and Clark teaming up with Leona doesn't shatter any expectation, in this case it's for the best; by this point, taking any of them away from the team would feel weird (and not in a good way).
Our expectations may be shattered next week, depending on who SNK picks as Mai's and Yuri's teammate. That is, assuming that their teammate is the character being revealed next week, rather than SNK presenting someone from another team like Kim or Kensou...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(4):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Mon 7 Jun 00:23
quote:
Do people care about the storyline behind fighting games anymore? Doesn't these season passes releasing more and more of the same characters ruin the story and timeline of most fighting games?
SS(2019) had a story? You get a generic intro with pointless name drops that ultimately says things are just generically bad. The various roster characters decide to start wandering around the country for flimsy reasons. Characters eventually stumble across whoever was randomly selected to be their rival/sub-boss, where they exchange a few lines of dialogue with all the enthusiasm of greeting faceless co-workers in the morning. Then they stumble across the forgettable final boss (who I legitimately keep forgetting even exists at all), beat the boss, and go home. It is pretty much impossible for the DLC characters to do any damage to SS(2019)'s non-story.
As for the overall SS story and timelime, that started down the path of ruin back in 1995, when SNK decided it didn't want to deal with the consequences of advancing the series storyline and instead made SS3 a prequel to SS2. It only became more of a mess as more games were created. The SS(2019) DLC characters aren't doing much more damage to the overall SS story and timeline than SS(2019)'s own existence has already done.
quote:
I don't know about fighting gamers, but I rather enjoy a fighting game that have new characters within these season passes. I mean, if everyone just cares about the fights and the fights alone, I understand and makes more sense in a profit consensus. But if so, give us a fresh new game on the side for those wanting to tinker the bell a bit.
It isn't just the people that care only about the fights that want to see characters return.
People that care about the story likely do so because they care about some of the characters that are used to tell the story, and people that care about characters likely want to see those characters return. This is true for stories in general, not just fighting games. You see it with movies, TV series, comic books, novels, everything.
One could go as far as to argue that people that only care about the fights should be less interested in seeing characters return. Capcom did as much when it tried to defend the absence of fan-favorite characters in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite: "characters are just functions". As long as the playstyle itself is present, it doesn't matter whether the screen displays "Magneto" or "Captain Marvel". Of course it did matter, people care about the characters as much as the playstyle. Capcom itself knew as much; they had no reason to bother with a Marvel license at all if they believed otherwise.
As for the impact of DLC characters on any game's story, that varies by game, by DLC, and even a bit by the player.
Some DLC characters simply fold into the existing story without issue, or expand the existing story, or even create additional stories around the existing story. Capcom used SFV DLC characters to add playable versions of characters that were already present in the story, to update fans on the "current" status of various characters that weren't tied directly into the main story (Sakura growing up, the status of the various Final Fight characters, etc), and to build an entire new mini-story around G.
Other DLC characters are treated as non-canon bonuses, similar to classic guest-star appearances. Arbiter showing up as DLC in Killer Instinct is just as non-canon as Spartan-458 being playable in Dead or Alive 4. Even if characters are given a seemingly inclusive story, that arguably is little different from any other character's "what if", joke, or other non-canon story. Despite his SF2 ending, Zangief couldn't have danced with Gorbachev to celebrate his SF2 tournament win because Zangief never won the SF2 tournament.
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| | "Re(3):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Mon 7 Jun 22:32
quote:
It's all good on the delay. I'd rather have a quality game that a rushed game. SFV will always be a prime example of a rushed game at launch.
It still shocks me that Sony allowed Capcom to release a game they funded in such an atrocious state at launch. Even in this push it out the door half baked era of game development, SF5 was odious - which is inexcusable when you're one of the figureheads/staples of the genre.
True. And it's nice to see that SNK itself actually learned from its past mistakes, more specifically the severely incomplete KOF XII. They were quite lucky that their fans actually accepted to buy XIII later (which is basically the game XII should have been). XIV, despite the issue with the graphics, showed that they put a lot of effort to make it a complete package (yes, it had DLC later on, but the game already had everything it needed to have at launch: a decent roster, different modes, a story, a final boss, and so on).
Delaying XV is a wise choice. It's probably harder for SNK itself (having to wait longer before the money from the players come to them) than for the players, who'll have the teaser trailers for weeks to get distracted until then.
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quote:
Do people care about the storyline behind fighting games anymore? Doesn't these season passes releasing more and more of the same characters ruin the story and timeline of most fighting games?
I don't know about fighting gamers, but I rather enjoy a fighting game that have new characters within these season passes. I mean, if everyone just cares about the fights and the fights alone, I understand and makes more sense in a profit consensus. But if so, give us a fresh new game on the side for those wanting to tinker the bell a bit.
I intended to write my opinion, but honestly, Baines already wrote everything I wanted to, and much more. Those are some amazing observations on this subject.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: Ishmael26b
| "Re(6):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Tue 8 Jun 00:24
With all the slightly crazy scenarios fans started dreaming up with a vague line or two from Rose's story mode it's obvious people are very invested in the story. Personally, while I enjoy the story, I tend to focus more on the character personalities and interactions. The storylines in fighting games, such as they are, will always be rewritten to suit the current game. When the canon is constantly shot out of a cannon it's best not to get too attached.
quote:
Reminder that Soulcalibur's story has always been good, and that now that it's actually in the game in 6, it's even better.
All DLC characters are involved and get more and more interesting, and Setsuka's scenario is the best samurai story in a videogame of the last few years, and I say that as someone who adores Sekiro.
We probably won't get a season 3, but really, in a just word, we should. Hopefully in a few years we get a SC7 that will basically be 6 with updated graphics and more characters to continue expanding and fleshing out the world.
The story in SC6 is rambling, long-winded and built on the cheap but bless their little hearts for putting it in the game.
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| | "Re(5):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Thu 10 Jun 09:11
quote:
Do people care about the storyline behind fighting games anymore? Doesn't these season passes releasing more and more of the same characters ruin the story and timeline of most fighting games?
I don't know about fighting gamers, but I rather enjoy a fighting game that have new characters within these season passes. I mean, if everyone just cares about the fights and the fights alone, I understand and makes more sense in a profit consensus. But if so, give us a fresh new game on the side for those wanting to tinker the bell a bit.
I care, but only if it's done right. Even though I've never been a Guilty Gear fan, for example, the series has a decent story.
I hate the storyline Street Fighter has become. It's become too silly and quirky to be taken seriously now.
My situation is worse; I'm a sucker for any storyline in a fighting game. I'd say that, if Mortal Kombat didn't have a storyline (like several of its imitators didn't), I'd have lost interest in it after the first game, considering how it only got decent gameplay features in the 2011 reboot. Conversely, as amazing as Virtua Fighter is as a fighting game, never captured much of my attention exactly because it barely has a storyline (and whatever story it has is always told in game manuals, never on the games themselves).
Killer Instinct's Xbox One reboot had one mess of a storyline (with each season telling it in a different way, the first one as an Arcade Mode with multiple endings, the second one with small texts between each batlle, and the third with the confusing-but-amazing Shadow Lords Mode)... and honestly, I loved all the work I had trying to tie all this mess together in my head.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Four ladies, no Ladies' Team" , posted Thu 10 Jun 11:20
Luong is here. While her inclusion doesn't exactly shatters expectations (she was in the previous game, after all), the decision to announce her before Kim certainly does.
Many people had already correctly guessed that the character revealed today would be Luong. However, these same people also expected her to be the final member of the Women's Team with Mai and/or Yuri and/or Mary. Alas, that wasn't the case, so we currently have four ladies without a team.
I guess Luong will probably be in Kim's team, meaning that he probably won't be teaming with Chang and Choi once again. That does shatter some expectations, as I expected the three of them to regroup this year. Then again, maybe she and Gang-Il will kick Kim out of their team (leading him to team up with Chang and Choi) and bring Jhun or May Lee in his place, with a rivalry between the old South Korea team and the new South Korea team.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):Non-Ladies' Team ladies' team?" , posted Thu 24 Jun 23:24
quote:
Vanessa isn't a surprise. Vanessa being in a team with Mary and Luong is a bit more of a surprise.
Will KOF15 have two separate all-female teams? Mai and Yuri still haven't found a place to call home, so the classic Ladies' Team may exist alongside the new Team Secret Agent...
I think Mary will be in a team with Ramon/Vanessa (agents team?) or the old '97 team (but story wise it should not make sense anymore). Something more shattering if it's a completely new team composition.
So my prediction for Blue Mary/Vanessa in the Agents Team was correct for 2/3!?!
I didn't expect Luong to be a secret agent with the good guys, as she was labeled a mysterious newcomer in XIV (with Hein and Kukri) I assumed she was with the bad guys... So if she is with the good guys, this make Gang-Il the one with the bad guys??
At least I hope this time this team is not another Heidern's story/plot extension, it has become a bit overused.
Was also Gang-il the most disliked newcomer of XIV? Will he be back? Surely, Team Kim will be different now.
So Luong was a spy all along? I... don't know what I think about that.
This team certainly shattered expectations. Now, could this mean that Kim will team up again with Chang and Choi? The two of them certainly seemed to have regretted teaming up with Xanadu in XIV, and Kim didn't seem to enjoy Gang-Il's company either.
Meanwhile, Mai and Yuri remain without a team... if their teammate turns out to be a man, now THAT's something that will shatter expectations. But it's probably Nakoruru.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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New Customer  | "Re(4):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Sun 4 Jul 04:49
quote:
Do people care about the storyline behind fighting games anymore? Doesn't these season passes releasing more and more of the same characters ruin the story and timeline of most fighting games?
As a fan of the genre since SF2 in arcades, it didn't take long for it to become evident to me that the stories in the fighting games I enjoyed, were an afterthought tacked on after the game design was completed.
As time has moved on, it has only become more pronounced as less skilled developers attempt to turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad.
However, I do not deny that there is a segment of the audience that has a passing, to zero interest in the competitive aspect of fighting games.
Until we reach a place where fighting game developers do as FPS and Battle Royal developers do, giving away the multiplayer component for free (which I feel would be a major boon to the competitive scene), and charging for DLC costumes and single player content - adding "content" outside of mastery of playing the game is a value add for a portion of the audience.
As I've mentioned before here, stories are fun when read on a wiki, where people attempt to clean up and provide a clear narrative to the nonsense inhabiting the typical Japanese fighting game "story". e.g. King of Fighters aka Oops All Kyo's!
https://imgflip.com/i/5fdaq3 [Image Attached]
There's some ridiculous, fun, absurd, and enjoyable aspects to SNK storylines that remind me of the DC comics I read as a kid; but ultimately - these stories aren't what keep me coming back; and everything about a character when well designed can be expressed entirely through the character design, visuals, fighting style, taunts, and win/loss quotes. No need for a story to me.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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New Customer | "Re(5):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Sun 4 Jul 05:04:
quote:
One could go as far as to argue that people that only care about the fights should be less interested in seeing characters return. Capcom did as much when it tried to defend the absence of fan-favorite characters in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite: "characters are just functions". As long as the playstyle itself is present, it doesn't matter whether the screen displays "Magneto" or "Captain Marvel". Of course it did matter, people care about the characters as much as the playstyle. Capcom itself knew as much; they had no reason to bother with a Marvel license at all if they believed otherwise.
I only care about the fights, but this was ridiculous as the "functions" (read: fighting styles) were directly associated with those characters.
Yes, this is the hell world of everything being a corporate intellectual property / content; which completely ignores pop culture, fandom, and honestly - the stories of these characters.
Marvel characters don't suffer from a paucity of story like Capcom characters. They have decades of history, abilities intrinsic to the characters, and a built in fan base because of that.
I am not a fan of the Capcom Marvel fighters, but I am a near life long comic book fan, and can tell you that pretending Ms. Marvel is as popular as Rogue is just false. I use that example as the characters are intrinsically linked in X-Men canon of the Claremont era.
X-Men are popular, and esoteric Avengers - less so. Hell, even the Avengers themselves were not the cultural icon they are in the current state until Marvel comic was forced to work without the X-Men and Spiderman to forge a "cinematic universe", and honestly?
I still don't care about the Avengers.
When I read the comics, I liked the West Coast Avengers because they featured a direct link to the X-Men, and many of the B/C-list heroes I enjoyed at the time.
For whatever reason, I preferred the individual stories of Captain America, Hulk, and Iron Man to the Avengers team book. It may well be that I didn't exist until 12 years after they debuted as a team, and by the time I grew out of reading Ghost Rider and Spiderman comics as a youngster, I then ventured into the world of Iron Man and the X-Men. For decades the X-Men just cast a long shadow over team comics from both Marvel and DC.
So yeah, the public relations people can try to pretend characters are just "functions", but the market will prove them wrong. I don't think it helped at all that the game was also massively visually uninspiring, another persistent niggle Capcom fighting games of the past decade.
They lost the artistry (literally in nearly every major artist behind SF series in the 90's abandoning ship, and in terms of no longer having the in house talent to develop these fighting games) in the quest to become an intellectual property farm.
Sorry for the late replies. Been very busy at work, and finally have some free time to do more than sit back and read.
Yesterday I was looking up some of my favorite European metal acts (looking to see what USA festivals serve the audience in an attempt to plan for a post pandemic/lockdown world), and fell down a rabbit hole on a tale of feuding band mates and rival bands - only to discover the vocalist behind a grandiose symphonic metal epic was a covert SNK fan the whole time.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
[this message was edited by Pencilero on Sun 4 Jul 09:07] |
New Customer | "Re(9):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Fri 9 Jul 03:09
quote:
That's where I'm at as well. Even in the best of times it was a good idea not to think too hard about who SNK was hanging out with but this has simply gotten gross.
Sheesh, last I heard investment from another controversial figure was the order of the day. Citation: Saudi Arabia & SNK Corp: Why Fans Are Upset With The Game Dev's New Owner
As consumers I understand why this causes discomfort, but I will try to judge the product on it's own merits unless it begins to promote uncivil messages.
It is unfortunate that filthy money can invest in "intellectual properties" we enjoy, but I try to remind myself that money is only interested in making money. People with money, or earning vast sums of money may not always be the most qualified, competent, or kind persons. Otherwise people would be boycotting the Marvel Cinematic Universe and I'd be forced to stop enjoying The Lego Batman Movie in the face of so many awful DC movies.
In the past we had to separate the art from the artist, in the current era - it seems we need to separate the money from the end product as well; again - unless it's demonstrated that the end product is used in a malicious manner.
I understand that matters of ethics, politics, and religion are deeply personal; and everybody has to follow their own heart.
Who knew SNK would end up dealing with worse than Playmore? It sucks, since they made, and published, so many great games in the fond old days of the 90's. Feels bad. :(
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(4):Viva Mexico!" , posted Fri 9 Jul 15:38
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Hopefully it will; having a team of pro-wrestlers, each of them with their own wrestling style, was quite a treat in XIV with people who enjoy pro-wrestling and its several variations (lucha libre, puroresu and so on - even though there wasn't a puroresu character in it), and it would be a treat to have the team back (even if not with all the team members it had in XIV).
I'd love to see a team containing Raiden and Tizoc. Big body pro-wrasslin'! Who could be the third?
I want Tizoc and King of Dinosaurs to both be on the same team, resulting in everybody going nuts when they thought that King of Dinosaurs was just Tizoc in a different outfit. We later learn that the new King of Dinosaurs is actually the protege of Tizoc who was inspired by his furious pursuit of vengeance, but Tizoc seeing this young person's talent turned him into a face. However, the two never break kayfabe around everyone else, and don't even acknowledge the possibility that Tizoc and King of Dinosaurs was ever the same person.
I'd really like an honest-to-goodness pure Greco-Roman wrestling character who is NOT a pro-wrestler. Given how outlandish fighting game characters can get, having a really faithful adaptation of a very orthodox martial art would be really quite novel! We've seen how in Tekken you can add a person who is just a very orthodox martial artist in Lidia, and rather than seeming boring, it's AWESOME.
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New Customer | "Re(5):Viva Mexico!" , posted Sat 10 Jul 16:09
quote:
I want Tizoc and King of Dinosaurs to both be on the same team, resulting in everybody going nuts when they thought that King of Dinosaurs was just Tizoc in a different outfit. We later learn that the new King of Dinosaurs is actually the protege of Tizoc who was inspired by his furious pursuit of vengeance, but Tizoc seeing this young person's talent turned him into a face. However, the two never break kayfabe around everyone else, and don't even acknowledge the possibility that Tizoc and King of Dinosaurs was ever the same person.
I'd be okay with this as I was never comfortable with the Tizoc is King of Dinosaurs thing.
Besides, if we're listening to modern dinosaur research, we all know dinosaurs had feathers - so King of Dinosaurs is the impostor and Tizoc is the truth. :b
quote:
I'd really like an honest-to-goodness pure Greco-Roman wrestling character who is NOT a pro-wrestler. Given how outlandish fighting game characters can get, having a really faithful adaptation of a very orthodox martial art would be really quite novel!
Has nobody done this in the history of the genre?
Every since watching Idiot Abroad, I've been pulling for some developer to make a Mongolian Wrestler character. It would be perfect for old school Capcom. It's the fantastic typhoon of burly men in ridiculous attire engaging in feats of strength. Plus it's another box they could tick off for the successful "World Warrior" character design model that tends to be more successful than more abstract, or story based fighting arts (e.g. most SF3 newcomers ((despite my love for them))).
Fundamentally, I feel Capcom should have stuck to the World Warrior ethos and mine every culture for a representative fighter utilizing a culture specific combat sport / martial art.
It's a "better model", read: more overt, than abstract caricature characters (e.g. Rufus the fat American), esoteric story based given the paucity of narrative (e.g. Necro), or boo hiss "function" fighters (prior to MvC:I - if I were more inclined to waste time I'd argue was the birth of the "shoto" archetype ((read: not the misguided attribution of confused Mash players))).
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(6):Viva Mexico!" , posted Sun 11 Jul 23:20
quote:
Fundamentally, I feel Capcom should have stuck to the World Warrior ethos and mine every culture for a representative fighter utilizing a culture specific combat sport / martial art.
In the current world, that approach does carry some pretty hefty PR risks. You can still do it, but you need to be careful and perhaps a bit lucky. Otherwise you may get criticized for (negative) stereotyping or be labeled racist, sexist, some other -ist, or anti- something, which can quickly blow up into a PR nightmare. Companies like Capcom that have pushed the esports angle and advertising/sponsorship have the additional concerns of not wanting to risk upsetting those related companies and organizations. (For example, ESPN objected to Cammy and R.Mika's default outfits when broadcasting SFV EVO, with finalists using those characters being ordered to switch to different costumes.)
Even at the time of Super Street Fighter 2, there were groups that debated whether Deejay and T.Hawk were potentially objectionable caricatures. A decade ago, Capcom drew public criticism for Ryu and Chun-Li's quotes for Poison in Street Fighter X Tekken.
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New Customer | "Re(7):Viva Mexico!" , posted Mon 12 Jul 15:06
quote:
In the current world, that approach does carry some pretty hefty PR risks. You can still do it, but you need to be careful and perhaps a bit lucky. Otherwise you may get criticized for (negative) stereotyping or be labeled racist, sexist, some other -ist, or anti- something, which can quickly blow up into a PR nightmare. Companies like Capcom that have pushed the esports angle and advertising/sponsorship have the additional concerns of not wanting to risk upsetting those related companies and organizations. (For example, ESPN objected to Cammy and R.Mika's default outfits when broadcasting SFV EVO, with finalists using those characters being ordered to switch to different costumes.)
Even at the time of Super Street Fighter 2, there were groups that debated whether Deejay and T.Hawk were potentially objectionable caricatures. A decade ago, Capcom drew public criticism for Ryu and Chun-Li's quotes for Poison in Street Fighter X Tekken.
This is why I'm so enamored with Guilty Gear honestly. In a world where so many geeks cannot shut their holes about "video games are art", so few are willing to admit that art is not made by committee, and that there exists a multitude of expressions of art.
Video games can be a medium of expression, and there needs to be room for polygonal visuals, sprite based visuals, voxels, and whatever other visual style is required to express and present the artist's vision to the world. Short stories, long form stories, choose your own adventure stories. High brow. Low brow. Genre.
Unfortunately, the reality is video games are still largely products that burn through the talent and labor of artists that work under contract, non disclosure agreements, and often at a disadvantage (not the first industry, won't be the last ((see also, comic books in America, animation, etc.))) much in the same way nuclear energy makes use of uranium - providing energy, but leaving behind unwanted waste product.
Guilty Gear is the last fighting game "intellectual property" helmed by it's founder (godspeed to any fool that brings up Harada and Tekken, utterly generic product and only mildly amusing on it's best days), and headed toward his thoroughly insane vision, in the journey changing the characters (similar to how SNK moved the clock forward with Mark of the Wolves, or Capcom attempted to advance the clock in SF3 before running back to cower in the safe shadow of the money making machine that was Street Fighter 2 for all future sequels), and doing with the game and genre something that is pretty rare for a Japanese developer. I'd argue that Daisuke stands above his Japanese developer auteur peers in that he's a bloody dynamo (artist, designer, musician, voice actor).
I was mulling over the outrage over Rick Bayless a few years back this evening having just finished reading The Joy of Living by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche. People decrying "cultural appropriation", but what was lost was that general audiences need a cultural sherpa, which Bayless and his cooking show and recipes were. There was an audience for him introducing Mexican cuisine to PBS viewers who didn't stick around for Pati's Mexican Table (their loss - she's a beauty, and she cooked delicious foods).
There is room for a chef with an appreciation for the culture and foods of another country, as is there is room for a chef of the culture of that country. As Mingyur Rinpoche reminds readers at the end of the book, "Remember all people seek to be happy."
There is a fine line to tread when representing cultures, but Street Fighter is best remembered in it's Spinal Tap peak of Street Fighter 2. Even with derivative characters like Totally Not Mike Tyson guys, Doomed Megalopolis antagonist, and stretchy Yogi from Master of the Flying Guillotine - Street Fighter 2 peddled ridiculous caricatures that go to 11.
Were it not for Hakan, I would be oblivious to the peculiar sport of Turkish oil wrestling. Yes, Hakan pulled a Spinal Tap and turned the whole thing to 11; but that is what Street Fighter when it's working well is remembered for.
You can use your platform to introduce players to unique and interesting fighting styles from around the world, so long as you're doing it with no malice. As times change, you can make adjustments - see also, Zangief and former direct references to the USSR and former leaders.
But this is where artists need to come in and assert their will.
I never had a problem with Deejay, he was like a more versatile Guile and his portrait bore a strange resemblance to Brutus the Barber Beefcake back in the day. T.Hawk at the time, was like Zangief - beyond my execution and understanding; but superficially, I admit to some confusion over a representative of Mexico as a Native American; but learning more about the history and campaigns against Native Americans - it doesn't seem so odd to me in 2021 as it may have in 1993.
Again, there's a fine line to tread; and so long as there's no malice behind the depiction - then let's go for broke. This affords more time to determining what fighting styles are available in other cultures, for instance having Polish ancestry, I've always been curious if there would be a way to introduce a Pole to the Street Fighter universe? Outside of the poles used by Rolento and Birdie for combat that is.
Another instance of general audiences attempting mind reading of artists is witnessed in the comments for the trailer to Don't Breath 2.
I trust Fede Alvarez and Rodo Sayagues to write another bizarre movie. That the trailer seems to be misleading audiences familiar with the first movie should not be shocking, or confusing to viewers with curious minds and trust in the artists.
However a generation of movie audiences used to mass produced cinematic pablum are unfamiliar with the concept of "challenging film". Of course I'm counting my eggs before they've hatched here, but until I have reason to distrust the artists, I'll trust them to take me on a journey, see also Luc Besson. Which can be a rather rocky ride, but I'll take Luc Besson at his worst over another less enjoyable director at their "best".
Sorry, I'm rambling.
I guess the point is - artists should create art, not all art is fine art, and no art worth a damn is crafted by committee. Leading back to the problem of claims that video games are "art", but in 95% of cases they're merely products exploiting artists for maximum profits. LOOT CRATES AND SLURP JUICE!
Thanks for indulging me.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(9):Viva Mexico!" , posted Wed 14 Jul 03:07
quote:
But the interconnectivity of the world also puts these characters under a brighter spotlight as well. Staying with Tekken, why on earth is Lidia Sobieska the prime minister of Poland? What does that add to her character? In the past several years Poland has passed several regressive laws concerning human rights so, for me, this character is irrevocably tied to the politics of a particular country at a certain point in history. Prime Minister Sobieska would have been bizarre even back in the early 1990's but I don't know if I would have been as immediately aware of international politics in that analog age.
Whether or not she was written as the President of Poland, though, in reference to "real martial arts practitioner" characters, I think she's impeccable, and that's what I think of when I think of making characters doing an orthodox martial art.
Your criticism is one I am divided on my feelings about. On one hand, yes, choosing specifically the political entity of Poland in an internet-powered era means choosing... well, everything that is known about Poland, and Poland's official policies lately have contained some absolutely awful stuff. On the other hand, it is a criticism that seldom comes up because Tekken story-wise seems to exist in a world that only resembles our world insofar as it having the nations and martial arts that exist in it (as those could exist without any history!... yet somehow people easily accept that as a fictional conceit!), while only selectively acknowledging real-world events. The Tekken Zaibatsu is the world's most important company that shapes global affairs, 9/11 has never happened, the 2008 economic collapse never happened, etc. The world-warrior approach which Tekken has had for so many years cannot exist without a world for them to be in, and so maybe the real fantasy of Tekken is not that of fantastical warriors punching each other but a world that is much more harmonious and less problematic than our own even when the Tekken Zaibatsu declares sovereignty and plunges the world into war like it did in Tekken 6.
It's also the case that the President of Poland part of her is entirely extraneous. Like, if you completely excised the "President of Poland" aspect of her, all of her voice lines would still work (even the "fight for the people of Poland" one! she's just some national athlete or w/e now), her portrayal of the martial art would still be great, and she'd still be visually appealing and visually make sense.
On the other hand, you can't quite so easily take the cop out of Lucia. She has police imagery on her design in spite of not being dressed in any way like a real cop (aside from her cap), she's got loads of voice lines referring to police things, etc. It's not as though the revelation of the horrid behavior of police forces across the USA is something only just happened in 2021, and a good few of my friends say that the best thing about her alternate costumes is that it lets you cover up the fact that she's a cop. Her voice lines in English are even better than those in Japanese, what with her Brooklyn/Nuyorican accent!
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| | "Re(2):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Fri 16 Jul 09:59
quote:
I imagine what Pencilero actually means by committee is a bunch of executives divorced from the creative process who are interested in maximizing profit and minimizing PR trouble, thus leading to anodyne, “mostly harmless” games and designs that we don’t like.
Yes, I believe that's exactly what he meant.
The reason why I wasn't so sure of that is because many other chunks of his posts all discussed it in terms of things being led by singular people, whether Daisuke or Besson or whatever else. In particular, there will be times in projects when we'll talk about handling things "by committee", meaning as a team/group. This is different from saying handling things "by A committee", which means an external team/committee. Grammar's a trip.
But basically it's kind of important to look at almost all of these great old 90s arcade games as very specifically NOT auteur works, because even if Akiman or Shinkiro art dominates our perceptions of them, they were really specifically NOT the result of the direction of a singular genius, and all the interviews with the folks from back then have shown as much.
There's also some business-driven metrics from back then that were absolutely cut-throat, too: you can find interviews with the arcade developers who talked about the yen-per-minute requirements they'd be issued! Monetization method absolutely affects game design in some pretty profound ways, and it's important to recognize that all arcade games existed as money-making commercial enterprises which required convincing people to hand over money and approvals in order for them to be made. It's really kind of fortunate that we got games as artistically accomplished as we did, though part of it is that we certainly have forgotten all the bad cash-in clones of SF2/Final Fight/1942/whatever.
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
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| "Re(3):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Sat 17 Jul 01:40
quote:
It's also the case that the President of Poland part of her is entirely extraneous. Like, if you completely excised the "President of Poland" aspect of her, all of her voice lines would still work (even the "fight for the people of Poland" one! she's just some national athlete or w/e now), her portrayal of the martial art would still be great, and she'd still be visually appealing and visually make sense.
That's what frustrates me about Lidia. She could easily have been like Hitomi from DoA, who is simply a martial arts practitioner from Europe. Instead, she was saddled with a ridiculous job title that only serves to further bloat the political storyline that the producers of Tekken are so enamored with. Maybe Lidia should have been introduced as the sophisticated foreign teacher in Tekken's fighting schoolgirl plotline instead? Then again, maybe not.
quote:
On the other hand, you can't quite so easily take the cop out of Lucia.
Lucia's problems are interesting. I'm certain when Capcom created her she was a police officer just to give her an easy backstory to explain her punk-punching ways. Much like how Guile is vaguely associated with the US Air Force, Lucia's profession was just there to guide her visual style. Now, however, Lucia is a lot more loaded a character in the US than anyone at Capcom Japan anticipated. Even though I know it's not intentional, I still find her entire "cop" persona gives me pause when I see her on the character select screen. (I don't have to worry about her past that screen since I find Lucia to be another boring blonde with bad outfits that I don't want to play, but that's neither here nor there.)
This all feeds back into Pencilero's original post about the pros and cons of using the world warrior ethos for character design; you sometimes end up with questions the characters can't answer. By choosing to go the route of Interpol to get her revenge is Chun-Li a Party member? Are my tax dollars being used to fly Guile down to Brazil just so Laura can slam his face into the cobblestones? These are the matters I ponder on a Friday when I don't want to work.
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New Customer | "Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Tue 20 Jul 14:04
quote:
I imagine what Pencilero actually means by committee is a bunch of executives divorced from the creative process who are interested in maximizing profit and minimizing PR trouble, thus leading to anodyne, “mostly harmless” games and designs that we don’t like.
Thanks for the benefit of a doubt folks. I felt a sense of regret upon posting.
This is why I've eased off of online "conversation" in my advanced age. I treat it as conversational / off the cuff, but in recent years I find myself composing messages and then sleeping on them. Proof reading. Then not posting them. Even this one, drafted, sat on - edited to remove vague art discussion. Nonverbal cues do not exist online, and further studies opened my eyes to how proper punctuation is interpreted in text messaging. So bizarre.
When I typed "art is not made by committee", perhaps I should have said this instead, "art is not made through focus testing." (Related definition)
I did not mean to imply there is only ever one person working on a game (not every game can be Vanguard Princess), but in the best of cases you can get a team working together under a director/designer toward a common goal to achieve something legendary. Perhaps that's the greatest failing of recent Street Fighter entries? Although even with a better director at the helm, I fear Capcom's continued farming out of the development to disparate third parties, and stinginess with funding (although what was the excuse with the poor launch product that was SF5 since it was bankrolled by Sony - mismanagement?) will only continue to negatively impact the series.
This is why I was focusing on Ishiwatari. How many fighting games are still attached to their founder, and their guiding vision? Intentionally disregarding Harada I have such a low opinion of Tekken.
Anyhow - yes, I too want Hakan to return to Street Fighter. Hopefully in a course corrected title, and hopefully less reliant on the entries sub systems to be useful. I was never enamored enough by Street Fighter 4 to commit to labbing the Focus Attack, Dash Cancel system which was crucial to using Hakan. That damned game just felt so clunky when played compared to previous entries, that's the one thing SF5 at least managed a bit better.
It would be fun to see Hakan return with his adorable daughters aiding in his combat like Sasquatch and his family (or was that only in victory poses). This is also a strong argument for the lost art of character specific stages in fighting games. Give me a stage in Turkey with Hakan's family nearby reacting to the match. Yes, it's gratuitous and will require development time; but damn it - it's worth it!
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(2):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Tue 20 Jul 18:10:
quote:
I did not mean to imply there is only ever one person working on a game (not every game can be Vanguard Princess), but in the best of cases you can get a team working together under a director/designer toward a common goal to achieve something legendary.
I think that's what I think I didn't totally agree with: that there's always necessarily one creative person making all the design decisions. Each character in SF2 had their look and how they move created by a team, which necessarily had to have creative freedom in doing so. By the time of Cyberbots, Capcom had an entire dedicated "design room"/"design team":
quote:
—When you’re working on a new game, at what stage does the design room become involved with designing the characters?
Shoei: Our involvement changes on a case-by-case basis: in some cases, we work in tandem with the plan-man from a very early stage, and in other cases we might be tasked with illustrating characters that are already moving in-game. A project manager will often come to us with requests for characters of a certain archetype—”main character”, “female character”, “mastermind-type”, etc—but every project is different. For Cyberbots, the characters were created from scratch by the design room.
And Cyberbots is about as singular of a game as it got back then! Some of its systems would basically be rediscovered independently elsewhere, but really people should be stealing from that game wholesale!
The entire 90s SNK era didn't really allow for many people to personally claim credit for their work on the games, which I think is a real shame because we know far too little about who was responsible for how our favourite characters became the way they did. I mean, if you look at those original character designs for Garou MotW, absolutely none of them are much like what we got in the final game. There was a ton of revisions that must've happened to get to where Garou finally ended up, with a cast of really quite restrained designs that were executed excellently!
We still don't know as much about Metal Slug as we should, but check out this interview from last year!
Among the various jaunts of individual creativity are:
- half of the levels in the game were made by Miihaa, while half of the levels were made by Kujo (who worked on and still works on R-Type), which resulted in two different level design philosophies in the game!
- AKIO is the person behind much of the amazing pixel art of the Nazca games, and shared in the direction of Metal Slug with the planner
- Hamada is the one responsible for making the playable characters in Metal Slug humans and not just tanks, which is something he just went and did on his own!
If the Metal Slug games after 3 weren't as good, it's not because they didn't have the one creative genius behind Metal Slug, it's because they didn't have the entire team of gallivanting geniuses behind Metal Slug.
I think the reason why I care so much about this is specifically because there have been such big gaps in public knowledge of how all sorts of things were made, along with my own experiences of being a part of big creative projects where what saves the project is the creative choices of the people not credited as director. Some projects definitely benefited from having one head honcho who could provide a consistent and clear direction to the team, but other projects such as Metal Slug were much more of a "band", where the final great album is arrived at through the gang jamming together through many sessions and some of the members occasionally just doing solos. I think it's a general negative when in the absence of much other information we default to "it must be because of this genius director!", because it comes at multiple expenses: of understanding other creative approaches, of denigrating the efforts of people in the project who made major creative decisions that were not the director's, of thinking that the only way in which something similarly great can be achieved is with and only with Particular Person X in an almighty role, etc.
[this message was edited by Spoon on Tue 20 Jul 21:18] |
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| "Re(3):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Wed 21 Jul 09:10
quote:
although what was the excuse with the poor launch product that was SF5 since it was bankrolled by Sony - mismanagement?
SF5 sounds like it was horribly mismanaged during development. Also, Sony seemed really anxious at that point in time to push out games before they were fully complete. Some games, like Bloodbourne, were able to hide their reduced production time better than the unplayable mess that SF5 was at launch.
quote:
I think it's a general negative when in the absence of much other information we default to "it must be because of this genius director!", because it comes at multiple expenses: of understanding other creative approaches, of denigrating the efforts of people in the project who made major creative decisions that were not the director's, of thinking that the only way in which something similarly great can be achieved is with and only with Particular Person X in an almighty role, etc.
The auteur theory of videogames gave us some interesting discussions but it also gave us Mighty No.9 and Shenmue 3. Several years of discussion about indie games was influenced by this idea, and often not for the better. I agree with you that games are an alchemy of many hands working together, many of whom are unseen and unknown. But at least the auteur line of thinking brought us to a point where Kojima could somehow make a bottled baby walking simulator.
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Rare Customer  | "Re(3):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Wed 21 Jul 13:29:
quote:
I think the reason why I care so much about this is specifically because there have been such big gaps in public knowledge of how all sorts of things were made, along with my own experiences of being a part of big creative projects where what saves the project is the creative choices of the people not credited as director. Some projects definitely benefited from having one head honcho who could provide a consistent and clear direction to the team, but other projects such as Metal Slug were much more of a "band", where the final great album is arrived at through the gang jamming together through many sessions and some of the members occasionally just doing solos. I think it's a general negative when in the absence of much other information we default to "it must be because of this genius director!", because it comes at multiple expenses: of understanding other creative approaches, of denigrating the efforts of people in the project who made major creative decisions that were not the director's, of thinking that the only way in which something similarly great can be achieved is with and only with Particular Person X in an almighty role, etc.
I don't disagree, and am open to information and enlightenment. This may be another good point of intersection between video games and comic books in the West, where in the old days of comics - the ruthless work for hire nature of the business resulted in many talented writers and artists going wholly uncredited for their work, in addition to losing ownership of characters they created, and also the artwork created for the finished product.
This is an area open to an industrious / pioneering geek to fill in the gap. I'd love to see a video game equivalent of The Internet Movie Database that compiles game credits and staff rolls, because I can't for the life of me recall what Alien Pole was credited for in the old Capcom games I played; but that name is stuck in my brain forever. It would be fun to see where staff has gone to work, instead of having to curate one's own personal database of creators whose work you enjoy.
I'd also like to see more bilingual fans and journalists do the work of interviewing these creators for historical documentation, and to get a behind the scenes look at the creation of our favorite games. Although that may be impeded by non-disclosure agreements and whatnot. This would be a more welcome addition to our hobby than the muck raking nonsense that is foisted off as "journalism" on these commercial websites. That would require learning a second language and gaining the interpersonal skills necessary to network, that may be lacking in the field.
More stuff like Noclip - Video Game Documentaries would be welcome. I'm not a Final Fantasy player, or fan, but I greatly enjoyed their re-making of Final Fantasy 14 documentary series. I'd love to see something like that taking a deep dive on the heroic efforts of that handful of SNK staff responsible for laying the foundation of KoF12/13 which is persistently unfairly maligned by American gamers. KoF12 is nearly the very definition of a Pyrrhic victory for a gaming franchise. To finally see characters I love updated for a new era, only to ultimately fail due to state of SNK and the limited staff working at that time. Damn the haters - KoF12/13 will always hold a special place in my heart. That handful of developers (as documented in translations here) at SNK aimed for the stars.
Video games like comic books in the West also share that unfortunate work for hire quality wherein all rights and creations tend to end up in the hands of the publisher / parent company. So I couldn't tell you who was responsible for Earnest Evans or El Viento, but I fondly remember those games under the illustrious banner of Wolf Team games.
That's why Ono era fighting games from Capcom feel like the Blaze Bayley era of Iron Maiden to me. A true Monkey's Paw situation, where I want to see the thing I enjoy continue on - but not in this blasphemous incarnation.
And as you mention, I can look to Ono as the figurehead (public face) of Street Fighter 5; but I attribute the aspects I enjoy to Takayuki Nakayama. Similar to how Eighting was responsible for Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom. The unfortunate aspect of game development, like film - is that prominent figureheads can damn the work of all the talent involved in the product if it's poorly received, or disliked. See also, Zack Snyder - a film director that I find is the most derivative and banal purveyor of polished turds working today.
Another good example was Superman Returns. One of the iconic scenes that people refer to was fully the work of a visual development team filling in a gap in the script. A wonderful scene, forever sullied by being attached to Bryan Singer's fanfic continuation of the Richard Donner movies when someone should have encouraged him to just reboot the franchise for a new generation while retaining a similar tone.
The reality of the situation is no matter how gently we put it, there is always the risk of a product failing and while there may be a team of people who put in their best effort toward said finished product the captain is the person that traditionally goes down with the ship.
So yes. I get where you're coming from, but I also understand the nature of the business makes things complicated. Sometimes people end up getting dragged or praised. That's disregarding the mercenaries of the world just doing a job they're hired to do with no passion, say the Acclaim Entertainment and LJN's of the world (sorry I'm so old and disconnected I don't know who more contemporary trash publisher/developers are), the video game equivalent of a Brett Ratner or Greg Land.
I view the heyday of 90's Capcom and SNK as an era of teams establishing such a solid foundation of work, that it could be built upon, polished, revised, and tuned up to such a level that we ended up with visually rich games like Street Fighter Alpha 3, Vampire Savior, and King of Fighters. Game mechanics experimented with in Darkstalkers being implemented in Street Fighter Alpha, sprites from games creating libraries of visual information, so on and so forth.
That's also what I feel is missing from the modern iterations of Capcom and SNK games. Now, we're lucky to get one entry from a franchise a generation, and it's slowly built upon for a decade or so. The wild experimentation and risk taking is gone, because at the end of the day this is a business and if a game isn't profitable it's too substantial a loss. SNK gets a lot of slack from me given their weakened position since their 90's glory days, whereas Capcom seems to be on that Sega style intellectual property mismanagement and general disregard for the respective fanbases. The conspiratorial part of me wants to believe Sega of Japan just wants to punish the American fanbase for failing them thanks to Sega of America's contentious relationship and disastrous business decisions. I would have loved to play Border Break with English speaking friends instead of wasting my time trying to force enjoyment of battle royale games.
This is why I'm smitten with Arc System Works fighting games currently. BlazBlue put them on my radar given the state of Street Fighter 4, despite my indifference toward earlier Guilty Gear games. The BB team used rotoscoping to achieve dynamic sprite visuals for the game, and they continued to build upon it with subseqent releases. They are carrying that 90's iterative spirit along, using the custom engine for licensed games, and hopefully using the profits from those licensed games to fund new titles. Building upon the foundation established with Xrd, and putting it to good use in games like DragonBall FighterZ and GranBlue Fantasy Versus. It's just a shame that fighting games are so niche, that I could walk into Gamestop last year (on high alert thanks to the emerging pandemic) and pick up my pre-order of GBFV, and listen to the clerk sing the praises of the game visuals.
I get it where she was coming from, but this wasn't Arc System Works first time to the dance. Were I not on high alert, I might have suggested checking out Xrd Sign and DBFZ, but I was too busy grabbing and going to avoid potential viral infection from other patrons.
Perhaps this is what I feel is missing from other fighting game developers in the current marketplace. While Arc System Works develops and publishes a wide variety of games, fighting games still appear to be their bread and butter with a lot of heart and passion pumped into them.
quote:
The auteur theory of videogames gave us some interesting discussions but it also gave us Mighty No.9 and Shenmue 3. Several years of discussion about indie games was influenced by this idea, and often not for the better. I agree with you that games are an alchemy of many hands working together, many of whom are unseen and unknown. But at least the auteur line of thinking brought us to a point where Kojima could somehow make a bottled baby walking simulator.
On the flip side of the coin we got to witness Tecmo's Itagaki, and his hilarious flailing into obscurity after garnering Microsoft funded success with his Sega (DoA) and Capcom (Ninja Gaiden) fan games for Xbox. :b
On topic - King of Dinosaurs!
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
[this message was edited by Pencilero on Wed 21 Jul 13:37] |
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| "Re(4):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Thu 22 Jul 07:42
quote:
The auteur theory of videogames gave us some interesting discussions but it also gave us Mighty No.9 and Shenmue 3.
But at least the auteur line of thinking brought us to a point where Kojima could somehow make a bottled baby walking simulator.
Hahaha, as usual, Ishmael's wry summaries get to the heart of the matter in the shortest amount of text.
I get what both Spoon and Pencilero are saying, and I think there's room for both considerations: auteur theory is an oversimplification and sometimes a total theft of credit that doesn't hold up without the alleged auteur's team. See Naka Yuuji on Sonic (which is nothing without co-creator Ohshima Naoto, who made the superior Sonic CD without him) or Inafune on Rockman (as the poor saps who bought Mighty No. 9 found out). As you all noted, many key moments and scenes in games/movies are due to less famous staff under a more famous director.
On the other hand! A director or producer is still doing something really important in assembling a team of great artists to allow them to make great things that they may more may not get due credit for, and stuff just may not work without them! My favorite case study is the godly and wildly successful Chrono Trigger, overseen by Square's Sakaguchi and Enix's Horii, with a punchy, concise, deeply humane script; contrast with the miserable failure of Chrono Cross: many of the same team and the same scenario writer, but with a cruel, lifelesss, psycho-babble-stuffed mess of a script and a sluggish, uninteresting game---Sakaguchi and Horii clearly kept the scenario writer in line with Trigger to create something great, but he was nothing without proper creative leadership.
More concisely: like Ishmael noted, a genuinely weird and interesting creator like Kojima always seems to manage to make something wild regardless of the team he's with--he's clearly gathering the right people, who in turn are an integral part of games that are maybe over-credited to him alone, but which probably couldn't exist without him.
This is the most I've every participated in an SNK thread! 
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(4):Re(10):Viva Mexico!" , posted Fri 23 Jul 08:41
quote:
This is an area open to an industrious / pioneering geek to fill in the gap. I'd love to see a video game equivalent of The Internet Movie Database that compiles game credits and staff rolls, because I can't for the life of me recall what Alien Pole was credited for in the old Capcom games I played; but that name is stuck in my brain forever. It would be fun to see where staff has gone to work, instead of having to curate one's own personal database of creators whose work you enjoy.
mobygames has been trying to do this, and their site is much much better than most any other site doing the same thing. You can look up a given title, see credits for any of its different releases, sort developer releases by year, etc.
However, old SNK being old SNK, many of the names on there are still pseudonyms. Lacking in real human profiles, we can't even really know if two people with the same name are actually the same person, or just two people with the same name. I don't think anybody was in a better position to help figure out who some of these people were than our beloved Brandon, but I doubt Brandon will have much to do with SNK in the years to come (for reasons that are very reasonable!).
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| | "Re(3):Athena Super Heroines Team" , posted Fri 30 Jul 22:13:
quote:
Even if you want to get meta, while Athena has crossover history and Mai is a major face of SNK, Yuri still sits as the odd girl out.
I disagree; Yuri seems to be very popular as well. If I remember correctly, she's one of the only women in KOF who is in every canon game (Athena is the other one), a feat that even Mai failed to have. She was also chosen to appear in Terry's KOF stage in Super Smash Bros Ultimate (sure, many other characters also appear there, but the fact that Nintendo chose to show her indicates she's not unknown), and she's present in both all-female SNK games (while King, who comes from the same series as she does and who's also quite popular, isn't) - even being one of the first characters announced for SNK Heroines.
I've seen on YouTube many players using Mai/Athena/Yuri teams to play past KOF games. This time, the only difference is that it is an official team.
...Anyway, Athena looks cool, and I like her new haircut (but at the same time I kinda hope she won't keep it for more than two games). I just hope her presence in this team doesn't mean that Kensou and Chin will be absent from XV.
---
EDIT: oh, also about Yuri, I just remembered that even that 3D animated series had her as one of the fighters that joined Kyo in the final battle against Rugal - while even Ryo and Robert (the protagonists of the series where she first appeared as a damsel in distress) were absent from that battle...
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Fri 30 Jul 22:24] |
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| "Re(4):Athena Super Heroines Team" , posted Sat 31 Jul 03:07
Athena's restraining order against Kensou finally went through! Congrats girl!
As for Athena's newest look, I rather like it. Her new outfit fits with the "King of Qipao" theme that is running though a number of costumes this year. Her new bob haircut is also a nice change. However, it still seems someone is convinced that gaudy purple necklace is an iconic part of her look. Yes, we already know she throws psycho balls; she screams it a dozen times each match.
quote:
This feels very much a "change for the sake of change" decision, perhaps combined with a desire to drop the "Women's Team" name.
It does feel that way, but in that case it's a lateral move since the name is still based around their gender. It might as well be called the "Heroic Women's Team."
Or, wait, was there an edit team called the Neo Heroines Team?
Now that I think about it, I want a Red Bull Team or something similar. If they ever bring back that leftover team of Shingo, Kasumi and Eiji they should be forced to take corporate sponsorships in order to afford the entry and travel fees. But I digress.
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| | "Re(4):Athena Super Heroines Team" , posted Sun 1 Aug 03:11:
I would've loved it if SNK, having been around for the Showa, Heisei, and Reiwa eras, made an Idol Heroines Team. You have each character on the team styled to represent one of the Showa, Heisei, and Reiwa eras. Sylvie is the Reiwa rep, Athena the Heisei rep, and the NEW character is the Showa rep.
Because SNK always used to follow contemporary fashion for KOF, the team would have a musical theme styled after the still-popular lo-fi hiphop/~wave music, which frequently is juxtaposed with 80s or early 90s imagery/anime. Doing that would make the Showa-styled representative feel "vintage" rather than "antique", while also feeling "current".
[this message was edited by Spoon on Sun 1 Aug 03:20] |
| | "Re(5):Athena Super Heroines Team" , posted Mon 2 Aug 00:48
quote:
I would've loved it if SNK, having been around for the Showa, Heisei, and Reiwa eras, made an Idol Heroines Team. You have each character on the team styled to represent one of the Showa, Heisei, and Reiwa eras. Sylvie is the Reiwa rep, Athena the Heisei rep, and the NEW character is the Showa rep.
Because SNK always used to follow contemporary fashion for KOF, the team would have a musical theme styled after the still-popular lo-fi hiphop/~wave music, which frequently is juxtaposed with 80s or early 90s imagery/anime. Doing that would make the Showa-styled representative feel "vintage" rather than "antique", while also feeling "current".
Or make a full-Athena team: Bikini-armor-Athena from the past (Showa), Idol-Athena (Heisei, KOF98 costume preferred), and NEW-HIGH-CONCEPT Athena for Reiwa.
Maybe a V-Tuber that (surprise!) is secretly actually not virtual but really does look like she does in her video?
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| | "Re(3):Athena Super Heroines Team" , posted Tue 3 Aug 13:08
quote:
While I wouldn't say my expectations are shattered, I am mildly curious to see the new Psycho Soldier team lineup and if it includes any arrangement of Kensou, Chin, Bao, Momoko, or new characters.
Come to think of it - will there be any new characters in XV at all? So far it only seems to be "expectations shattering" rearranged teams of veteran fighters. 
Well not necessarily new, we have seen the return of Chizuru, Yashiro, Shermie and Chris for the first time in almost 20 years. I'd say the fans have been quite happy that those expectations have been shattered.
I love how Athena looks in this game. She looks fantastic. And I might get slack for this, but I would be happy to not see Chin and Kensou this time around. I'd rather see others like Krauser and Mr. Big come back in their places.
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Rare Customer | "Re(1):Leaks leaking" , posted Wed 25 Aug 15:24
quote:
So, a leak happened.
There is KOFXV visual leaked for error by Yodobashi site.
I would not link here, I don't know if you want to be spoiled or not. But you can find that on Reddit or Twitter.
Whatever they had planned for next week, sorry SNK, you got screwed by a stupid leak.
Eh, I don't know honestly. SNK is in a precarious spot these days. I don't think any news regarding them, as the old axiom goes, is bad news - so long as it's related to games being developed.
I saw some promo art. Can't get a read on it. I mean, if a character visual is a catastrophic spoiler, okay; but to quote Walter in The Big Lebowski, "You have no frame of reference Donnie!"
The character visuals tell me so little, especially with KoF. Which in modern incarnations treads dangerously on old Guilty Gear territory, in that I'm a fighting game and anime boomer and don't find these modern character designs overly appealing.
However the jury is still out, and the proof is in the playing; as I would have never expected to enjoy Sylvie Paula Paula based on her visual alone.
Tough times being an old fart and not keeping up with the nutty fashions of the youngsters, which seems to be a general trend of KoF. Which was the more fashion fighter while Street Fighter was more, generic martial arts tropes in terms of visual design.
I realize in time we're all doomed to fade away, but I would take some comfort in a fighting game developer introducing more middle aged characters. Rosters seem to skew more toward spring chickens or old birds, with the middle ground generally ignored.
Kind of the fixed time of American comic books, where Superman and Batman are never older than 35 years in general continuity. Yet everybody loves some crusty old Dark Knight Returns Batman. :b
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(2):Leaks leaking" , posted Thu 26 Aug 03:45:
The official trailer is here
39 fighters at launch (13 teams, XIV had 16 teams) and already 2 full teams announced as DLC, eww.
I don't know, my expectations aren't shuttered in a good way right now.
Probably because as of now we have only 2 new characters, and looking at the character select screen and counting who we know will be in the game (Heidern, K') there isn't much space for many surprises. At least if they do not start to put teams/characters relevant to story as DLC.
Edit: around 3:13 it's possible to see the character select screen without big text in front, basically there are 3 teams with 1 character known (Ash, K', New Rival Girl) and a fully unkown team.
Kim? Chang&Choi? Kensou? Angel? Most of the new people from XIV?
I can see them cut Nakoruru e pachinko girls team, Alice (good riddance, lol) but Nelson has some story to continue, Sylvie probably too. Xanadu was "interesting" but at this point improbable to make the cut. Kim not being in the game probably would be the first time, Kensou I'm not sure, probably skipped already a game.
Mian? Hien? Too many questions
[this message was edited by Lord SNK on Thu 26 Aug 04:06] |
| | "KOF XV trailer" , posted Thu 26 Aug 04:29
quote:
The official trailer is here
39 fighters at launch (13 teams, XIV had 16 teams) and already 2 full teams announced as DLC, eww.
I don't know, my expectations aren't shuttered in a good way right now.
Probably because as of now we have only 2 new characters, and looking at the character select screen and counting who we know will be in the game (Heidern, K') there isn't much space for many surprises. At least if they do not start to put teams/characters relevant to story as DLC.
Has there been any indication that Heidern is returning? Team Ikari is Leona, Ralf, and Clark.
The trailer directly confirms Ash and K'.
The character select screen present in the trailer shows Ash and K' each leading their own team, so four of the remaining unrevealed characters will presumably relate to them. It also shows the new hat girl heading her own team. The new braids girl is not shown on the character select screen; maybe SNK forgot to add her image to hat girl's team or maybe she's not playable (a boss or sub-boss?)
Another thing about the character select screen... It has 52 character slots, divided across 17 teams and 1 solo character. The base game has been announced to have 39 characters, plus another 6 characters coming as DLC, for a total of 45 characters. That's 7 characters (two teams and one solo entrant) short. Could it be that SNK has plans for more DLC characters beyond the two announced teams? And what of that last spot, unlock a playable boss/sub-boss (braids girl maybe?), or more DLC? Of course this all assumes that the displayed character select screen is accurate and not just a placeholder, but it *does* include the currently revealed teams and newly revealed (excepting braids girl) characters.
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| | "Re(1):KOF XV trailer" , posted Thu 26 Aug 05:16
quote:
Has there been any indication that Heidern is returning? Team Ikari is Leona, Ralf, and Clark.
The trailer directly confirms Ash and K'.
The character select screen present in the trailer shows Ash and K' each leading their own team, so four of the remaining unrevealed characters will presumably relate to them. It also shows the new hat girl heading her own team. The new braids girl is not shown on the character select screen; maybe SNK forgot to add her image to hat girl's team or maybe she's not playable (a boss or sub-boss?)
Another thing about the character select screen... It has 52 character slots, divided across 17 teams and 1 solo character. The base game has been announced to have 39 characters, plus another 6 characters coming as DLC, for a total of 45 characters. That's 7 characters (two teams and one solo entrant) short. Could it be that SNK has plans for more DLC characters beyond the two announced teams?
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Heidern appears in the cover of the game that leaked earlier.
That same artwork hints at the final boss, it's possible that new girl is a sub-boss, but at this point I think it's more probable that they didn't put her yet in the select screen on purpose.
I'm sure the game will have more than 2 full DLC teams, at least 4 considering the empty spaces in the current character select screen.
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Rare Customer | "Re(3):KOF XV trailer" , posted Thu 26 Aug 14:24
The only thing that got me hyped was that Masami Obari animated short. Been an Obari fan for decades now, and I'll enjoy it on Youtube and wait for the game to go on sale on Steam.
I just can't get past the visuals from Capcom and SNK these days. I'm hoping with more developers like Dotemu and such on the scene, they'll just cave in time and do the right thing - hire sprite artists that care to breath new life in to these sad husks of fighting game franchises. Yes, I'd gladly sacrifice mundane gimmick of DLC costumes. I legitimately do not care.
I just want to feel the excitement I feel when I look at the old games, or the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game, or any modern Arc System Works game.
quote:
We'll still have to wait to see how well it is implemented. After all, Street Fighter V has rollback netcode, but had so many issues with its implementation that it still became the butt of jokes.
I suspect Capcom did as Japanese developers are wont to do, to their detriment, and looked at existing rollback and tried to reverse engineer an in-house solution rather than just license GGPO.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(1):KOF XV trailer" , posted Fri 27 Aug 02:40
quote:
Another thing about the character select screen... It has 52 character slots, divided across 17 teams and 1 solo character. The base game has been announced to have 39 characters, plus another 6 characters coming as DLC, for a total of 45 characters. That's 7 characters (two teams and one solo entrant) short. Could it be that SNK has plans for more DLC characters beyond the two announced teams? And what of that last spot, unlock a playable boss/sub-boss (braids girl maybe?), or more DLC? Of course this all assumes that the displayed character select screen is accurate and not just a placeholder, but it *does* include the currently revealed teams and newly revealed (excepting braids girl) characters.
Yes, I think it's very likely that SNK intends to add more DLC than the two announced teams, so the 7 characters left are probably DLC, too.
Some players will probably complain about it, but, well, DLC is a staple in current fighting games. Plus, maybe these characters would have felt unfinished if they didn't have the extra development time - and it's not like KOF XV has a short standard roster; even if we consider KOF games need large rosters due to the three-fighters team system, 39 still means 13 complete teams.
The girl with braids looks awesome; the one bickering with Shun'ei, not so much. I like how the trailer confirms that Yashiro, Shermie and Chris "return from the grave" (everyone assumed they died in '97 but I don't think it was ever officially mentioned in the games before), and Ash's return is maybe even more surprising - he didn't just die; he was erased from existence if I remember correctly.
Other than the annoying announcer, this was a great trailer.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):KOF XV trailer" , posted Fri 27 Aug 23:31
quote:
The girl with braids looks awesome; the one bickering with Shun'ei, not so much. I like how the trailer confirms that Yashiro, Shermie and Chris "return from the grave" (everyone assumed they died in '97 but I don't think it was ever officially mentioned in the games before), and Ash's return is maybe even more surprising - he didn't just die; he was erased from existence if I remember correctly.
KOF 14 was already setting up for Ash's return, as one of Verse's win quotes was from Ash.
From what I remember, it was implied that Ash altering the timeline was responsible for Verse showing up? Verse apparently did its own time shenanigans, particularly since one of the souls it held was Rashoujin Mizuki's?! Verse held Ash's soul. If Verse was indeed connected to Ash altering the timeline, and Verse itself was mucking with time, then you could justify Verse grabbing Ash's soul even if Ash should have been erased from existence.
Once Verse was defeated, the captured souls weren't just released, they were reborn into the world. Since Ash was captured, he comes back to life as well, even though he in theory shouldn't exist in the current timeline.
Now the question is whether people remember Ash. If they do, then that implies Ash's original timeline alteration itself has been at least somewhat undone, that it isn't just that Ash got transplanted from an alternate/dead/erased branch of time.
I guess the other question is what happened to Mizuki? Verse's defeat wasn't just sending souls back to where they were, it was bringing them back to life in the process. Does this mean Mizuki gets resurrected in the (KOF version of the) Samurai Shodown era, or does she get resurrected in the modern KOF era, or does she stay dead?
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| | "Re(4):KOF XV trailer" , posted Sat 28 Aug 12:11
quote:
Has anyone stayed dead in any SNK universe? Seems like they can just pull a Toriyama anytime they want when deemed necessary.
When you exclude dream matches, dream cameos, alternate realities/worlds, and the like, a respectable number of SNK characters managed to stay dead. At least they stayed dead until the timeline alteration of KOF13 and the Verse-fueled mass revival of KOF14.
Including Rashoujin Mizuki. After her defeat in SS2, she was only playable in non-canon dream match and/or parallel world games. Her silhouette was shown in Kyoshiro's SS4 ending, but that was teasing her "arrival" in SS2.
Others include: Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris, Orochi (sealed rather than dead), Omega Rugal (Rugal returned once, but stayed dead after his second "death"), Ash (a bit of a cheat as he "died" right before KOF14)
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Rare Customer | "Re(7):KOF XV trailer" , posted Fri 3 Sep 14:41
quote:
Mai needs some facial moisturizer, she could lose her house keys in those pores.
Perhaps 3D modeling suffers from the same affliction comic illustration does, where neophyte practitioners believe putting down more lines is indicative of quality? Anybody's guess, I've witnessed similar excess elsewhere (kid, you're only impressing yourself).
Either way, that artist's eye strikes a chord with me and I'd love to see their take on Yamazaki or Terry Bogard.
Ash has been an interesting character, but I've never used him. His KoF15 model doesn't sit well with the established character. He is too stocky, and his facial features aren't as androgynous as the 2D entries / official art.
Not giving up anything new here, I was disappointed by the KoF15 reveal as it simply appears to be using the SamSho engine with different textures (is that the correct term to use?). I get it, SNK is coming from a defensive position with limited talent and budget. Hopefully, like KoF14 it's fun to play; but for my money - like KoF14 it's not my cup of tea visually.
Hopefully, some day - SNK can manage a profit, and cultivate a team of talented visual artists to define a vision for KoF. I do feel they translated SamSho relatively well, barring the backgrounds (some of those character models back there are simply odious, including the wildlife on Nakoruru's stage).
I don't want to be the ASW, "everything has to be anime!" guy; but I do believe Majin Obama keyed into something crucial in acknowledging a Masami Obari visual style could be the secret sauce for the series. There is a lot of nostalgia for the Fatal Fury OVAs/Movie. Although I do recall Obari's take on the human form and facial features being a point of contention back in my anime club days, with a friend describing his people as "insectoid." :b
At the very least, SNK more so than Capcom has never really had a "house style" when it comes to visuals. They have had their own roster of fantastic artists to define concept art for Fatal Fury, Samurai Shodown, and King of Fighters through the years. Attempting to base the visuals off of the current production artists work would go a long way. I admit that would be rare, since so few video games even attempt to emulate the visuals of the fabulous concept artist, e.g. Namco fighters.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(5):KOF XV trailer" , posted Fri 10 Sep 23:52
quote:
Has anyone stayed dead in any SNK universe? Seems like they can just pull a Toriyama anytime they want when deemed necessary.
When you exclude dream matches, dream cameos, alternate realities/worlds, and the like, a respectable number of SNK characters managed to stay dead. At least they stayed dead until the timeline alteration of KOF13 and the Verse-fueled mass revival of KOF14.
Including Rashoujin Mizuki. After her defeat in SS2, she was only playable in non-canon dream match and/or parallel world games. Her silhouette was shown in Kyoshiro's SS4 ending, but that was teasing her "arrival" in SS2.
Others include: Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris, Orochi (sealed rather than dead), Omega Rugal (Rugal returned once, but stayed dead after his second "death"), Ash (a bit of a cheat as he "died" right before KOF14)
Regarding SNK's dead characters, one case where I'm quite confused is about Mature and Vice (I remembered about them after reading the backstory for Team Sacred Treasures). Has SNK ever explained how they're able to repeatedly return after being killed in '96? In fact, were they even human beings before Iori killed in '96, or have they always been these weird ethereal, immortal creatures and they just made Iori believe he killed them (maybe to make him feel guilty)?
The backstory for his team in XV does indicate that, even if the two of them end up absent from this game's roster, they're still around harrassing him.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(6):KOF XV trailer" , posted Sun 12 Sep 09:20:
quote:
Regarding SNK's dead characters, one case where I'm quite confused is about Mature and Vice (I remembered about them after reading the backstory for Team Sacred Treasures). Has SNK ever explained how they're able to repeatedly return after being killed in '96? In fact, were they even human beings before Iori killed in '96, or have they always been these weird ethereal, immortal creatures and they just made Iori believe he killed them (maybe to make him feel guilty)?
The status of Mature and Vice has been touched on repeatedly, but I don't believe it has ever been given a fully detailed explanation. Some information came from the official websites, which would have team prologues, but unfortunately the sites for KOFXIII are either down or broken due to age. Even the archived pages available through Wayback are busted. That leaves information from the games themselves and the KOFXIV websites.
Mature and Vice appear to be tied to Iori. Iori may view them as nightmares that haunt him. In the KOFXIV website prologue, Vice even says that Iori would have been free if he'd chosen to not take his powers back, but she could be referring to matters in general and not the trio specifically. The KOFXIII ending mentions that they see each other again, treating it as a haunting.
Mature and Vice may or may not be able to act outside of being around Iori. They seemingly set up a meeting with Iori before KOFXIII (KOFXIII story), and they bring the seemingly physical invitation letter to Iori before KOFXIV (KOFXIV website). But you could still explain these acts away as the acts of ghosts.
Their appearance with Iori seem to be tied to the full moon. There is a red full moon in Iori's KOFXIII ending, and after someone says that they'll never meet again, someone says that "he'll" haunt them on full moons. (I don't know if this is a mistranslation or if it is Vice or Mature saying that Iori is haunting them.) The prologue for KOFXIV again specifically mentions that there is a full moon the night that Mature and Vice deliver the invitation to Iori.
Mature and Vice are not fully alive. In KOFXIII, when Vice and Mature question Iori's strength without flames, Iori scoffs that the pair themselves "barely count as alive." In KOFXIV's web prologue, Iori refers to the pair as "half-dead things" brought "back from hell". When Iori prepares to fight them for real, either Vice or Mature (the line isn't given an attribution) says: "It's still too early for me to go back to hell" before leaving. In KOFXIII, one of the selectable palette choices for Mature and Vice was a translucent "ghost" palette. In the KOFXIII ending, a haze effect is applied to Mature and Vice as they talk with Iori, again implying that they are present as something other than human.
Vice does say that the dead are gathering in the KOFXIV web prologue, but she doesn't say that gathering drew the pair to Iori. It could instead be read as their reunion is driven by the same factors that are causing the dead to stir.
Some stuff is also a bit muddled. The KOFXIV web prologue loves to use the word "nightmare", to the point it becomes vague as to just what some uses imply. When Iori says "There's no way to awaken from these nightmares than by killing him with my own hands", is he referring to Vice and Mature or is he referring to Kyo? Or has he tied everything together in his mind, to the point that he believes killing Kyo will solve everything? Or is he referring to how he questions his own life?
The post-XIV status is also up in the air. Did they miss out on a resurrection because they weren't souls captured by Verse, or do they get resurrected anyway? Mature delivers a line during the KOFXIV web prologue that might be about severing the connection between the trio, which the text itself describes as "prophetic". Vice and Mature being fully resurrected would presumably break whatever connection they have with Iori. Or it could be the line was about something else, or it could have been about a possible future that didn't happen.
KOFXIV's ending itself doesn't seem to add anything. Mature and Vice don't try to stop Iori, who goes to join Kyo and Chizuru in resealing Orochi. Mature and Vice talk about destinies shifting. No funky KOFXIII visual effect on Mature and Vice, and you don't see Mature and Vice vanish, but that isn't any form of proof of their status.
KOF XIV web prologue:
https://www.snk-corp.co.jp/us/games/kof-xiv/teamstory/yagami.php
[this message was edited by Baines on Sun 12 Sep 09:22] |
| | "Re(7):KOF XV trailer" , posted Sun 12 Sep 22:52
quote:
Regarding SNK's dead characters, one case where I'm quite confused is about Mature and Vice (I remembered about them after reading the backstory for Team Sacred Treasures). Has SNK ever explained how they're able to repeatedly return after being killed in '96? In fact, were they even human beings before Iori killed in '96, or have they always been these weird ethereal, immortal creatures and they just made Iori believe he killed them (maybe to make him feel guilty)?
The status of Mature and Vice has been touched on repeatedly, but I don't believe it has ever been given a fully detailed explanation. Some information came from the official websites, which would have team prologues, but unfortunately the sites for KOFXIII are either down or broken due to age. Even the archived pages available through Wayback are busted. That leaves information from the games themselves and the KOFXIV websites.
Mature and Vice appear to be tied to Iori. Iori may view them as nightmares that haunt him. In the KOFXIV website prologue, Vice even says that Iori would have been free if he'd chosen to not take his powers back, but she could be referring to matters in general and not the trio specifically. The KOFXIII ending mentions that they see each other again, treating it as a haunting.
Mature and Vice may or may not be able to act outside of being around Iori. They seemingly set up a meeting with Iori before KOFXIII (KOFXIII story), and they bring the seemingly physical in
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
That's very interesting; thank you for all this information!
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Enter the Sandman" , posted Fri 17 Sep 22:26
quote:
But I gotta say, the silly little spinning in circles kick may be my least favorite spinny attack in fighting games. To convey this in a language Kukri would understand...
"Hey dumbass. You look like an oblong turd twirling around in a cat's litter box. Try spinning a little faster so you can hurry up and get that crappy move over with. You're embarrassing yourself. Jerkwad."
From watching the trailer, in combination with what was done in Tag Team Frenzy, I get the feeling that this has at the least become intentional after KOFXIV. Kukri is an awkwardly moving, poorly attempting to be edgy/dark, goofy but dangerous, comedy character. Even the perpetually hidden face now feels like part of the joke, rather than some dark mystery. He does it because he wrongly thinks it makes him look cool.
Unfortunately, he still looks like a showcase of the worst of KOFXIV's visual presentation. The spinning move is the showcase of the showcase, everything about it looks bad, from the idea itself to his goofy spin and even the look of the sand pillar that holds him up. In general, he looks poorly animated, or like corners were cut. Dropping a ton of sand on someone should hurt, Kukri makes it look like a harmless gag.
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| | "Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Mon 20 Sep 11:26
Thinking about Kukri caused me to play SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy.
I still cannot figure out what audience SNK was targeting with Tag Team Frenzy. The extremely simplified combat systems wouldn't appeal to diehard KOF/SNK fans, while the costumes and themes would turn away some sizable percentage of the potential casual audience.
Then there is Kukri...
Kukri is an unabashed pervert, at the least within the safety of his hidden kingdom. But he is also a very dangerous with that perversion. He has kidnapped a number of women, dressed them in embarrassing outfits, watches and ogles them in secret, put them within situations to intentionally increase their fear and despair, and intends to ultimately turn them into sand statues. Why? So he can gain the power to turn the women of the world into more of his statues.
Kukri is clearly the villain; the game does nothing to say otherwise. He is an unrepentant monster who must be defeated by the heroines.
But again who did SNK aim this game at? The characters default to embarrassing outfits. Players can further dress up the characters with more accessories. Players can put the characters in various poses, with various backdrops, and take photos of them. The game was basically designed for people similar to Kukri, the person SNK presented as both a villain and a joke for indulging in his fetishes.
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| | "Re(1):Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Thu 23 Sep 22:50
quote:
Thinking about Kukri caused me to play SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy.
I still cannot figure out what audience SNK was targeting with Tag Team Frenzy. The extremely simplified combat systems wouldn't appeal to diehard KOF/SNK fans, while the costumes and themes would turn away some sizable percentage of the potential casual audience.
Then there is Kukri...
Kukri is an unabashed pervert, at the least within the safety of his hidden kingdom. But he is also a very dangerous with that perversion. He has kidnapped a number of women, dressed them in embarrassing outfits, watches and ogles them in secret, put them within situations to intentionally increase their fear and despair, and intends to ultimately turn them into sand statues. Why? So he can gain the power to turn the women of the world into more of his statues.
Kukri is clearly the villain; the game does nothing to say otherwise. He is an unrepentant monster who must be defeated by the heroines.
But again who did SNK aim this game at? The characters default to embarrassing outfits. Players can further dress up the characters with more accessories. Players can put the characters in various poses, with various backdrops, and take photos of them. The game was basically designed for people similar to Kukri, the person SNK presented as both a villain and a joke for indulging in his fetishes.
Interesting analysis. So Kukri in SNK Heroines is a meta commentary on the own players who enjoy this idea of degrading the SNK heroines, like what Spike Chunsoft did in Danganronpa V3.
That said, it would be nice if SNK did establish a tag team fighting game series (except for the "degrading the female characters" part), in parallel with the KOF series. Something like Kizuna Encounter, with the tag zones and all (though maybe without the weapons), would be really nice.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Fri 24 Sep 00:55
quote:
That said, it would be nice if SNK did establish a tag team fighting game series (except for the "degrading the female characters" part), in parallel with the KOF series. Something like Kizuna Encounter, with the tag zones and all (though maybe without the weapons), would be really nice.
At the least SNK needs to do something other than traditional KOF. I'd prefer more 1v1 games for a number of reasons, but with actual story and/or character unlike the empty void that was SamSho 2019.
3v3 is just too crowded for characters to even express themselves, much less grow. Most of the characters are lucky to even be tangentially related to the story.
With just a few voice lines and animations, Tag Team Frenzy did more to make me like Sylvie Paula Paula as a character than KOF14 ever had a chance to do. You feel bad for her from the start; she's the only character Kukri kidnapped by accident, and he reacts to her presence with something between shock and revulsion as he tells her she wasn't appealing enough to be intentionally "invited". Did KOF14 do anything with Mian either, other than to establish her appearance and moveset? It was the brief interactions in Tag Team Frenzy that developed her character, along with her ending revealing why she needed money.
While the exchanges are brief (one or two lines per character), the game has different dialogues for each pairing of characters during the prologue and pre-boss fight, and every character has another five or so cutscene solo dialogues. These give more chances for characters to express themselves, like Yuri wanting to take pictures of genderswapped Terry, or complaining about the whole "kidnap Yuri" thing, or saying that she makes anything she wears look good. While played as jokes, the ending "dream/nightmare" animations also can express character.
All of that are things that KOF just doesn't have the space or time to indulge. And that really hurts. It particularly hurts new characters, but it also keeps the established characters locked into a bit of a rut as well.
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| | "Re(6):Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Tue 28 Sep 01:48:
quote:
I agree, I don’t want a gigantic NRS cgi scene between each match. As you noted, finding the right way to present the characters really helps to flesh them out. For example, I liked the banal conversation about the air conditioner Andy and Mai had in KoF14. It felt like an everyday thing a real couple would discuss and did a far better job of showing their relationship the corny jokes KoF used to subject them to.
I wouldn't expect SNK to have either the resources or talent to do NRS-style story modes. At best you'd get a budget version of Capcom's own poorly implemented "A Shadow Falls".
Thinking about it, I remember KOF14 having some long cutscenes, while KOF13 approached visual novel status with the amount of text it wanted you to read.
Curious, I decided to do some quick YouTube research, picking some random story mode videos to scrub through. This was harder for KOF13, as some of the story uploads cut out scenes with others skip text at erratic speeds.
KOF14 had around 11 minutes of video (intro, cutscenes, ending), not counting the very rare character-versus-character exchanges, and not counting the 5 minute credit roll. The character-versus-character exchanges can range from relatively short to long (Kukri vs Kyo is 40 seconds), but again they are rare and you can miss them entirely. (A more detailed breakdown is roughly: 20 second intro, 3 minute Antonov cutscene, 1 minute Antonov intro, 3 minute Verse intro, 1 minute Verse defeat, 2.5 minute team ending.)
KOF13 had over 19 minutes of video, not counting the substantial pre-match dialogues that can easily add several minutes to the "story" length. Unlike KOF14, every KOF13 story match has a pre-match dialogue ranging from around half a minute to a minute and a half. The battles against Saiki-Mukai and Saiki-Ash instead have shorter pre-round dialogues, with Saiki conversing with the individual opponent he is about to face. (A more detailed breakdown using Elizabeth's story is roughly: 8 minute intro, 1+ min for Ash evaluation and Rose cutscene, 3+ min for next cutscene, 0.5 min for Ash, 1.5 min for Saiki reveal, 1+ min for Saiki possessing Ash, 4 min for team ending.)
What is worse is that it feels most of that time is wasted. I barely remember KOF14. I remembered Antonov being portrayed as a Mr. Satan-like figure, and I remembered least-interesting-KOF-boss Verse destroying the stadium. As for KOF13, it felt simultaneously slow and rushed. Lots of rambly text, then the bad guys that had been built up for so long get taken out in a cutscene by the worse guy.
As I said before, the KOF14 Official Invitation Team story mode did almost nothing for Sylvie and Mian. Even the team ending was more about Kukri (advancing the KOF overall story) and Antonov. It barely did anything for Kukri, even while trying to present Kukri as a major player in the overall KOF storyline. (Kukri wanted to revive Verse in order to rescue Ash for Elizabeth.) Sylvie and Mian? You'd have to play SNK Heroines to get an actual grasp on their character, goals, and motives.
Side note: I recall SNK Heroines was supposed to be canon. However, it is easily ignored by main series KOF as everyone other than Kukri at best only remembers the event as a dream. If they even remember that much, as the endings show the characters waking from dreams that were largely unrelated to Kukri at all.
I do wonder how much SNK felt SNK Heroines existed as a story supplement... It does better establish Sylvie and Mian. It tells you a lot about Kukri, even if most Kukri players would rather ignore its revelations. It confirmed the New Faces Team were resurrected in the wake of KOF14.
A thought in that regard... Was the absence of Mature and Vice from SNK Heroines an intentional confirmation that they were not resurrected, or was it just a lack of time and/or other resources? Mature and Vice are rather noticeable absences after all.
[this message was edited by Baines on Tue 28 Sep 02:07] |
| | "Re(7):Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Tue 28 Sep 10:13
If there's one thing I'd prefer, it's for there to be more fast intros between particular characters that happens all at once rather than the "one character does their camera-focus walking in animation and talks, then the other character does the same, and it's always the same animation regardless of what they say". Seeing Hugo and Alex chestbump in a few seconds, or Terry seethe and just say "GEESE!" while Geese laughs, manages to convey much more and much more quickly. If anything, I think the whole "the animation doesn't change but the dialogue does" actively disservices the game because it feels more "fake" along with not really leveraging the most powerful element of the game, characters and how they behave visually! The "walk-in" is arguably more cinematic, but in the service of the experience I don't think it is the best design.
I agree that when it came to KOF13's story, I had no idea who I was supposed to care about or why and how come it suddenly resolved. After all, I'm sure we all paid close attention to the story of KOF12!
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| | "Re(4):Isla makes her debut!" , posted Fri 1 Oct 03:27
quote:
As for K', he looks as fun to play as always. But it is kinda sad that his cool design and his interesting moves are basically everything still holding K' in KOF until now, as in terms of plot he has long lost any plausible reason to still be involved in the tournaments.
That really comes back to what we were discussing earlier, there just isn't much room for character expression or development within modern KOF. Modern KOF barely does anything with its new and story-relevant characters, much less the rest of the roster.
I legitimately constantly forget Shun'ei and Meitenkun even exist. Even when I was looking back at KOF14 for some of these earlier discussions, I didn't even notice either of them. It was only Isla's trailer that reminded me Shun'ei existed.
I've said before that SNK needs a new 1v1 Fatal Fury or even an AOF to supplement KOF. I've now begun to believe what SNK really needs is a new series just to develop the characters that they've been creating for KOF. A series where they can spend some time with Sylvie and Mian, do something with Xanadu, try to find some what to make Shun'ei and Meitenkun interesting... Characters like K' and Kula can be brought in as "veteran" appearances, while finding them new reasons to hang around. Maybe build the story around Rose and/or Adelheid, and possibly a rival of theirs. Maybe bring in some forgotten characters from AOF or Fatal Fury. Just don't make it about Kyo, Iori, Terry, Ash, Orochi, or the like... (SNK Heroines kind of tried to do this, but its design was a bit too divisive, and it focused mostly on female characters.)
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| | "Re(5):Isla makes her debut!" , posted Fri 1 Oct 07:34
quote:
As for K', he looks as fun to play as always. But it is kinda sad that his cool design and his interesting moves are basically everything still holding K' in KOF until now, as in terms of plot he has long lost any plausible reason to still be involved in the tournaments.
That really comes back to what we were discussing earlier, there just isn't much room for character expression or development within modern KOF. Modern KOF barely does anything with its new and story-relevant characters, much less the rest of the roster.
I legitimately constantly forget Shun'ei and Meitenkun even exist. Even when I was looking back at KOF14 for some of these earlier discussions, I didn't even notice either of them. It was only Isla's trailer that reminded me Shun'ei existed.
I've said before that SNK needs a new 1v1 Fatal Fury or even an AOF to supplement KOF. I've now begun to believe what SNK really needs is a new series just to develop the characters that they've been creating for KOF. A series where they can spend some time with Sylvie and Mian, do something with Xanadu, try to find some what to make Shun'ei and Meitenkun interesting... Characters like K' and Kula can be brought in as "veteran" appearances, while finding them new reasons to hang around. Maybe build the story around Rose and/or Adelheid, and possibly a rival of theirs. Maybe bring in some forgotten characters from AOF or Fatal Fury. Just don't make it about Kyo, Iori, Terry, Ash, Orochi, or the
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Sometimes I wonder if the right answer is actually for SNK to make NOT FIGHTING GAMES. Yes yes they did this a great deal before in the past, and yes yes we had things like Days of Memories or Samsho RPG or Card Fighters Clash, but other styles of games have more opportunity for more substantial narratives to be explored as well as bringing in interest from people who don't just play fighting games.
The current method of delivery of the game, which is in a packaged retail product, is not like online service games like League of Legends where they can continuously push out both substantial gameplay/aesthetic changes and story to go along with it. The old annual KOF games effectively were delivering seasonal stories, but that cadence of release is no longer the model SNK is following and I doubt how well it would do today if it involved a full-price retail purchase each time.
Marvel's Avengers and Gundam Vs. and Fire Emblem Heroes and Smash Bros. are products which bring together memorable characters established elsewhere so you can have a good time with all of them, do something which entails the current/last state of those memorable characters, and maybe even handle some plot threads! But it isn't the responsibility of each of these megamix productions to provide ALL of the introduction and development and arc of all of these characters. KOF barely has enough time to tell a story about the supposed main characters of the current KOF story!
Back when Leyou was in the rumored process of acquiring SNK, I was thinking that the best strategic move for SNK under that acquisition would be to work with Digital Extremes (also owned by Leyou) to make a Warframe-like game featuring SNK characters. It'd fit the arcade style of game SNK historically makes, it'd allow SNK to make a step into the future/present of online mass-market service games, it'd give an angle for telling longer stories using the SNK characters and universe, and it'd importantly NOT BE A KOF GAME.
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| | "Multimedia KOF?" , posted Fri 1 Oct 11:13
quote:
In an ideal world, SNK would continue the strategy they had back in the Neo Geo days and go mediamix. The stories of the old KOF were not only told via the games, they used short stories in magazines and drama CDs. Having short anime series, on Youtube or wherever, some manga, licence that stuff up internationally and officially, make one KOF with one main story line to be developped through 2 or 3 seasons of DLC that each would push the series forward while the anime/manga would explore finer details or talk about what non-important characters are doing in the meantime, and you can... well... link two or three failing industries to the failing fighting game industries!
To be fair, they had the 24 episode CG series The King of Fighters: Destiny in 2017-2018. But it focused on early KOF and early Fatal Fury. It was, and apparently still is(?), planned to get sequel series and/or movies. But that will focus on the Orochi Saga, so it is still early (pre-'98) KOF.
They had the manga The King of Fantasy in 2020. But it was an Iori isekai coming off of KOF'97, featuring alternate world versions of early KOF characters.
SNK got representation in other companies' games. But that was mostly without characterization or story, and even then the representation seemed pretty focused on characters that existed before KOF'98.
So even when they do stuff outside of the games itself, it is still largely focused on the early era.
On a side note, I'm honestly kind of annoyed by some of the outside-the-game storytelling, because it can be so easily missed or lost. For example, SNK puts brief team intro stories on their web site. It isn't a space issue, so why isn't this included in the game where more people could find it? Worse, as I recently found, some of the older web pages are no longer functional.
Guilty Gear has suffered similar issues with its cross genre and cross media storytelling. Part of Guilty Gear's story is told in an early 2000s manga that I don't think was ever officially released in English? A more recent part, while not storyline critical, was told in a pachislot released in Japan.
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| | "Re(9):Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Fri 1 Oct 15:46
quote:
I would love that. Personal little touches like that were what made fighting games special back in the day. I think that time has sadly passed, as far as individual intros with unique animations goes.
I don't believe the time has passed, it's that fighting games in the hands of IP farms like present day Capcom and SNK no longer receive proper attention as wholly formed products.
The flourishes of the glory days of fighting games were due to the iterative cycle of development. Add a few new characters here and there, recycle assets, and fine tune those assets by adding little details like new incidental animations to supplement what already existed.
Capcom simply does not care anymore. See also, sending an uncooked Street Fighter 5 to the customer's table.
SNK. . . they have received several organ transplants, the body continues to reject them, and organ donors are running out.
The rub is both of these companies some to be content with the "This is the game as a service" IP release model for a full console generation. We don't get the flood of fighters anymore, somebody might get mad at them for doing what Activision/EA and everybody else does; but only hurl insults at the fighting game developers as fighting games are one of the last bastions of pure game play and a players lacking skills will be hastily exposed online. Translation, "Fighting games make me feel bad, so I'll complain about fighting games. When can I buy GTA5 again, or pre-order Madden Infinity, or Playstation AAA Remastered Game for the Nth Time 4K VR Edition?"
It might sting less if Capcom took a risk to release another of their beloved fighting IP's (I will continue to ignore their kusoge anime fighter Westaboos adore) rather than being the Street Fighter company, and that other game if Disney lets us...
Arc System Works is the standard bearer for the genre now thanks to not only the effort they put into polishing releases (lets ignore BB Crosstag Battle plz), and assisting with publishing of smaller fighting games.
I wish this weren't the case, but sadly fighting games scare off the casuals; and unless there's the promise of a guaranteed vault of money - not many developers are committed to putting in the effort to uphold the legacies of the games we love. :(
Hopefully there's some fighting game diehard working their way up the ranks in Japan as we speak, gathering allies, planning, and will restore the games we love to their proper glory.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(1):Multimedia KOF?" , posted Fri 1 Oct 16:07
quote:
Guilty Gear has suffered similar issues with its cross genre and cross media storytelling. Part of Guilty Gear's story is told in an early 2000s manga that I don't think was ever officially released in English? A more recent part, while not storyline critical, was told in a pachislot released in Japan.
This is a thing abused for example by the Kingdom Hearts franchise. Recently they remastered and ported all the old titles first on PS3/PS4 and then on PC, but previously to follow the story (because every game is canon and important for the story) you had to play games on PS2, GBA, DS, PSP, and whatever else. But then Nomura decided that some important story plots could be added everywhere, so we have a canon dialogue that was showed during a concert.
What Spoon said about Fire Emblem Heroes is a good example, those games complement what is already told by the main games, should not be the primary sources for the game lore.
Probably fighting games are not the best type of games for deep story, so we should not expect much, or probably the problem with KOF is that being a team fighters it has to have lots of characters.
I still enjoy the small tidbits of story we can get from the team endings and whatever, what I don't like is that more than half of them nowadays are joke endings (for example the "Kyokugenryu BBQ").
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| | "Re(6):(Mini) Tanks for the memories." , posted Tue 19 Oct 11:19
quote:
I'm not certain what's more odd, that someone made a video about Crystar, or that the video is so professionally made that it seemingly has an opening theme song by John Carpenter.
Toy Galaxy's "History" videos are pretty good nostalgia content. While they theoretically cover series that had toys, or at least some merchandise, I believe they've also covered shows that had none.
If you want the history of Crystar, Visionaries, Sectaurs, TigerSharks, Spiral Zone, Automan, and any number of other largely forgotten series, there is a decent chance that they've got a history video for it. Or will eventually make one for it.
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| |  "Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Thu 28 Oct 11:49
quote:
SNK posted a new trailer, for an open beta (PS4/PS5) and to officially reveal Dolores
I do hope that Dolores gets a "real" trailer later, as half of the runtime here was given to covering the open beta.
I can't tell if Dolores is supposed to be water, liquid rock, or what...
I hope so, too. But from what was shown so far, I love her design! In fact, she may be my favorite newcomer from this current KOF arc.
I'm with you on her design, dawg! She looks fly! Her and Isla are a fresh and exciting addition to the King of Fighters cast.
Also, her full-length trailer can be found here.
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| | "Re(1):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Thu 28 Oct 22:08
quote:
I'm with you on her design, dawg! She looks fly! Her and Isla are a fresh and exciting addition to the King of Fighters cast.
Also, her full-length trailer can be found here.
Thank you for the link! Nice trailer, and kinda mysterious, too. So, Dolores is linked to Kukri somehow... yet she's teaming up with Heidern and Shun'ei's rival? That's a team where I have a hard time trying to imagine why would any of these three characters team up with the other two. Hopefully the explanation will be a good one.
quote:
What the hell is going on with this character. Her top is fine, but the bottom looks like something Bayonetta would be ashamed of wearing. She manages to have more focus on her butt than Cammy and Mika combined in SF5... That's really embarrassing just to look at, and I liked Mika in the beta in SF5.
Yeah, the one criticism I have about Dolores is that the bottom part of her outfit seems quite out of place, both for a tournament fighter and for someone who seems to be quite a serious character, instead of one whose focus is to provide fanservice (hello, Mai).
But after several Dead or Alive games, plus plenty of SFV's DLC costumes and the (in)famous SNK Heroines, I guess Dolores's outfit isn't that bad. And maybe (and hopefully) her personality and gameplay will end up taking the attention away from her pants.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(7):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Tue 2 Nov 20:27
quote:
The fact that Heidern is on the "rival" team just strengthens my impression that Rugal will be making his return. I mean otherwise it doesn't make much sense; who else is Heidern a rival to in this series? We already know that Isla is Shun'ei's rival and Dolores is linked to either Kukri or the real boss of the game.
My current theory is that Rugal will resurrect and fuse with Orochi somehow, which draws Mature and Vice back to him and away from Yagami. That would explain the return of all these Orochi Saga characters. Meanwhile the real final boss will be lurking in the shadows, whoever it is.
They wont be on the base roster of course, but it's already been implied on the official website that there will be unlockable boss characters so I'm banking on that.
While it'd be awesome to see Rugal (KOF's most famous boss ever) and Orochi (KOF's second most famous boss ever) fused, wasn't Orochi found and sealed by the Sacred Treasures team in the end of KOF XIV?
That said, Rugal returning is very possible and it would be great. And this could even mean that Adel and Rose will eventually appear in this arc as well (I don't think Rose is a fighter, but she could still be in the background while Adel fights).
Rugal, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris... this almost feels like a dream match game like '98 or 2002. Only this time, it's canon, making it even more interesting.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: Gojira_X
XBL: Gojiraaa
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| "Re(8):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Tue 2 Nov 22:27:
quote:
Wouldn't Rugal be a more rival to Kyo based on the storylines of 94 and 95? As for Heidern, wouldn't he be more of a rival against a foe(s) of NEST? He was more involved with his missions against NEST then Rugal and Orochi.
Kyo has enough rivals as it is, and story-wise Rugal isn't as strongly linked to him as Orochi.
As Ishmael said, Rugal and Heidern have history. The link between Rugal and Heidern doesn't explicitly happen in the games themselves, but it's referred to several times. From his character wiki:
quote:
A 34 year old operative named Heidern was just promoted to his current rank for his exceptional proficiency in martial arts and strategy. The event took place at a top-secret base in Brazil and his wife and daughter were present for the ceremony. Rugal Bernstein, who caught wind of Heidern's high marks, stormed the base when he was away and killed fifty secret service officers on his arrival. When Heidern hurried back from his duties, Rugal deprived him of his right eye and deemed him unfit to be a part of his "collection". Instead, he murdered Heidern's wife and child. Disgraced and alone, he developed his own fighting style and mercenary unit called the Ikari Warriors. Heidern would spend nearly a decade filled with hatred and rage against Rugal.
So Rugal basically instigated the actions that would eventually lead to the formation (and probably naming) of the Ikari Warriors. It's just kind of unfortunate that the games were insufficient to express what a strong history there was. It may have been expanded on in one of SNK's drama CDs but those were exclusive to Japan.
But yeah because it's been so poorly expressed in the series, I'd just like this aspect of Heidern's character to be a little more well-known. It's always been treated as kind of a long-dormant, unresolved footnote in KoF history. That's why I'm hoping they can spin it into something worthwhile for KoFXV.
[this message was edited by Gojira on Tue 2 Nov 22:28] |
| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
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| "Re(9):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Wed 3 Nov 00:01:
quote:
Wouldn't Rugal be a more rival to Kyo based on the storylines of 94 and 95? As for Heidern, wouldn't he be more of a rival against a foe(s) of NEST? He was more involved with his missions against NEST then Rugal and Orochi.
Kyo has enough rivals as it is, and story-wise Rugal isn't as strongly linked to him as Orochi.
As Ishmael said, Rugal and Heidern have history. The link between Rugal and Heidern doesn't explicitly happen in the games themselves, but it's referred to several times. From his character wiki:
A 34 year old operative named Heidern was just promoted to his current rank for his exceptional proficiency in martial arts and strategy. The event took place at a top-secret base in Brazil and his wife and daughter were present for the ceremony. Rugal Bernstein, who caught wind of Heidern's high marks, stormed the base when he was away and killed fifty secret service officers on his arrival. When Heidern hurried back from his duties, Rugal deprived him of his right eye and deemed him unfit to be a part of his "collection". Instead, he murdered Heidern's wife and child. Disgraced and alone, he developed his own fighting style and mercenary unit called the Ikari Warriors. Heidern would spend nearly a decade filled with hatred and rage against Rugal.
So Rugal basically instigated the actions that would eventually lead to the formation (and probably naming) of the Ikari Warriors. It's just kind of unfortunate that the games were insuf
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It possibly that Rugal was not technically dead more so like possibly snatched out by say Geonitz and left in another dimension? At least thats how i see it from the ending of KOF 95. He was beat but "taken away" right?
Long Live I AM!
[this message was edited by Neo0r0chiaku on Wed 3 Nov 00:03] |
| | "Re(10):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Wed 3 Nov 03:38:
quote:
It possibly that Rugal was not technically dead more so like possibly snatched out by say Geonitz and left in another dimension? At least thats how i see it from the ending of KOF 95. He was beat but "taken away" right?
Rugal was one of the souls held by Verse, as shown by Verse's win quote for Mature. Presumably he's come back similar to other held souls.
As for KOF'95, I recall the idea at the time was that a non-bloodline body couldn't handle the power. Leona is at least half Orochi bloodline, or is she full? (Her father is, but I don't know about her mother.) Regardless, she has less control over her Riot of the Blood transformation (though that could be lack of experience and training). The Yasakani Clan made a deal with Orochi, and centuries later the bloodline of the now-renamed Yagami Clan still suffers the fates of dying young. As for Rugal, his body is destroyed by the power.
quote:
As Ishmael said, Rugal and Heidern have history. The link between Rugal and Heidern doesn't explicitly happen in the games themselves, but it's referred to several times. From his character wiki:
It's interesting that the quoted description doesn't quite mesh with an All About KOF'94 developer interview that is translated at shmuplations, but still kind of works if you think of Rugal considering pretty much everyone to be beneath him...
The quoted wiki story has Rugal actively seeking out Heidern due to the praise Heidern received, only to find Heidern to be a disappointment.
The translated developer interview treats their history similar to the portrayal of Chun-Li and Bison in the live-action Street Fighter. "But what did Rugal think about Heidern? I asked that question to one of the planners, and he responded: “Well, Heidern basically was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when he crossed paths with Rugal… and Rugal just swatted him like a fly, kicked him aside like a rock in the road.”"
[this message was edited by Baines on Wed 3 Nov 21:53] |
| | "Re(5):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Mon 8 Nov 07:49
quote:
Ah yes! I almost forgot about that snippet of the cutscene from the trailer! I want to say they're rivals. Let's see!
That's the likely scenario, considering Dolores's partnership with Heidern and that Kukri's role in SNK Heroines (which is apparently canon in the KOF universe) was... creepy to say the least. Unless Kukri is going the Ash route (that is, pretending to be evil while actually fighting the true bad guys), or Dolores is somehow tricking Heidern.
I was going to mention Vanessa and Seth working undercover together while being on rival teams in KOF 2000 (one keeping an eye on K', the other keeping an eye on Lin), but come to think of it, K''s team and Benimaru's team weren't exactly targeting each other, right? Both were after the NESTS...
(which makes me wonder: when will SNK bring Seth back? He's such a great character, but if memory serves me right, he hasn't been playable since KOF 2003, has he?)
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Whip it good!" , posted Thu 11 Nov 18:02
quote:
I think Kula is a shoe-in. She's got the popular vote for her compared to Maxima. It'd be a field day against SNK if she wasn't included in the base roster.
For some reason, I have a glimmer of anticipation that Elisabeth will return here.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kula was left aside as DLC, and the team ended up being K' Whip Maxima. She would probably convince people to pay up more than, say, Shingo.
After all, from the looks of it, the expectations the game is shattering seem to be with the amount of mainstays it booted, from Kim/Chang/Choi to Kensou/Chin.
Let's see how the roster ends up shaping and how many DLC characters they add. The game only has 1 Korean character, barely any of the new characters from 14... I get that the game was bloated and most of them were not particularly popular, but SNK made a big thing about embracing their South-American community with a team that seemed rather well-liked there, just before immediately treating those characters like they belonged to the American Sports Team. Same for Nadj, I'd have expected her to become back as a center part of the story with the whole design thing?
Hopefully, it means they spent all that development time on making the characters good and interesting, and the netcode solid. I still find the look of the game weird and I don't think I'll get it, but I wouldn't mind watching it from time to time.
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| PSN: Gojira_X
XBL: Gojiraaa
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| "Re(5):Whip it good!" , posted Fri 12 Nov 02:42:
Well Whip is a decent surprise. It was still uncertain if she would come back at all. Now I have a couple of theories about who the last 2 characters will be.
Route A: The predictable route, which is Maxima next, then Elizabeth last. In that order, because not many people would be hype to see Maxima revealed last. However what they might do is reveal that the teams are Ash/ Elizabeth/ Whip and K'/ Maxima/ Kukri, which would be the twist. Because teaming up with two dommy characters just seems like something Ash would do. Maybe he got the idea from Iori.
Route B: The other is Elizabeth next, then Shingo last. Yes Shingo. I don't know why, but I had the smallest inkling that Shingo might make a comeback and he's been on the K' team before. And since everyone would expect Maxima, seeing Shingo would certainly shatter expectations.
And yes I'm pretty convinced one will be Elizabeth either way. I mean, she was literally in the ending to XIV with Ash. I guess there's a small chance that she could be like one of those NPCs that shows up in all the cutscenes but never playable, but that would probably not be the best way to shatter expectations.
Edit: Also, if Kula is not one of them then that leaves my idea of the NESTS girl team as a possibility for the DLC team: Sylvie/ Kula/ Angel. The idea of Sylvie being a naive dork who lures these two onto a team because they were all in NESTS and she wants friends just feels like a fun idea to me.
[this message was edited by Gojira on Fri 12 Nov 02:58] |
| | "Re(4):Whip it good!" , posted Fri 12 Nov 08:02
quote:
I think Kula is a shoe-in. She's got the popular vote for her compared to Maxima. It'd be a field day against SNK if she wasn't included in the base roster.
For some reason, I have a glimmer of anticipation that Elisabeth will return here.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kula was left aside as DLC, and the team ended up being K' Whip Maxima. She would probably convince people to pay up more than, say, Shingo.
After all, from the looks of it, the expectations the game is shattering seem to be with the amount of mainstays it booted, from Kim/Chang/Choi to Kensou/Chin.
Let's see how the roster ends up shaping and how many DLC characters they add. The game only has 1 Korean character, barely any of the new characters from 14... I get that the game was bloated and most of them were not particularly popular, but SNK made a big thing about embracing their South-American community with a team that seemed rather well-liked there, just before immediately treating those characters like they belonged to the American Sports Team. Same for Nadj, I'd have expected her to become back as a center part of the story with the whole design thing?
Hopefully, it means they spent all that development time on making the characters good and interesting, and the netcode solid. I still find the look of the game weird and I don't think I'll get it, but I wouldn't mind watching it from time to time.
Maybe Najd will be the third member of Ash's team? I mean, what's the point of creating a new character if she's not going to be used as part of the canon story? If I remember correctly, she didn't have an ending in XIV, and her backstory is surprisingly thin for a SNK character...
By the way, who's the 1 Korean fighter in XV? While Luong was in Kim's team in XIV, SNK Wiki indicates her birthplace is most likely Vietnam... Speaking of that, Kim's absence is shocking, and not in a good way - there are very few characters that we just can't imagine not being in a new KOF game (Kyo, Iori, Benimaru, Terry, Ryo, Mai, Yuri, Athena, Ralf & Clark)... and Kim is among these few characters. Hopefully he's at least among the DLC fighters.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(5):Whip it good!" , posted Fri 12 Nov 14:52
quote:
Maybe Najd will be the third member of Ash's team? I mean, what's the point of creating a new character if she's not going to be used as part of the canon story? If I remember correctly, she didn't have an ending in XIV, and her backstory is surprisingly thin for a SNK character...
Najd was created as a Public Relations and/or cross-promotion effort with Manga Productions, a Saudi Arabian company owned by a foundation that was established by Mohammad bin Salman. Her backstory is thin likely because she's not really an SNK story-focused creation; she's the result of a contest run by a separate company, meant to promote the Middle East and Saudi Arabia.
I wouldn't be surprised if we never see Najd again, not unless money and/or favors exchange hands. I'm not even sure what her legal/licensing status is. Does SNK own her outright, or is she owned by Manga Productions, or is it a split deal?
As for creating new characters only to not use them in the canon story, that's not too far from how many of KOF XIV's new creations were treated. Sure, characters like Xanadu were technically part of the canon story, but they had barely any story relevance or presence. Unless we see him again, Xanadu existed to fill the empty roster spot of the Chang and Choi team (due to Kim having a different team). Sylvie has ties to NESTS and Mian was given a background in SNK Heroines, but in main KOF their purpose boiled down to giving Kukri a team for a single game. The entire South American team was pretty irrelevant, they seem to exist entirely so SNK could promote that it had created an entire South American team for KOF.
You could point out that Love Heart and Mui Mui just tagged along with Nakoruru, without even any real explanation of how or why they ended up time/dimension hopping together. And Hein so far was only filling out Geese's team.
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| | "Re(6):Whip it good!" , posted Sun 14 Nov 02:01
quote:
Ah, true, I thought Luan was Korean. Well then, even worse. Has a KOF ever had no Korean character at all? Is the Korean KOF scene dead and they think they don't need to cater to it anymore?
Or maybe Kim is another money maker and he'll be first in line for DLC, along with Kula and... I don't know, Krauzer. Team KKK! Wait...
Hopefully he'll return as DLC. I know there are several social and political issues between Japan, South Korea and China (recently there was a k-pop survival reality show with idols from these three countries and while the original idea was to promote union between the three nationalities, let's just say the result was exactly the opposite...), but that shouldn't be an excuse to get rid of all Korean fighters - if anything, it should be an excuse to do exactly the opposite and try to encourage people to leave their prejudices behind.
And come on, Kim has been a KOF mainstay even when he had no reason at all to be in a game (XI and XIII come to mind). He's one of the coolest Taekwondo fighters in fighting games, and even though I don't usually choose him, I know many people do.
(in fact, I hope Capcom adds a proper Taekwondo fighter in SFVI - Juri is cool, but her moves are too exaggerated even for SF standards and it's kinda bad that the only TKD fighter in the series is evil)
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(7):Whip it good!" , posted Thu 18 Nov 16:35
quote:
(in fact, I hope Capcom adds a proper Taekwondo fighter in SFVI - Juri is cool, but her moves are too exaggerated even for SF standards and it's kinda bad that the only TKD fighter in the series is evil)
Juri has the taint of the Ono/Harada era.
She always felt like a Tekken cast-off tacked onto Street Fighter, similar to how Viper felt like she got lost on her way to King of Fighters. It was my conspiracy thinking that the entirety of the Ono/Harada bromance (nobody in their right mind wanted a Tekken crossover of any variety) was a feeble attempt to lure Bamco into absorbing Capcom, or acquiring the Street Fighter IP.
Kim is easily the most wholesome TKD fighter, probably enhanced by his being stuck with those magnificent reprobates Chang and Choi for so long.
I have to wonder if in 20 years the new KoF character will appeal to me, sort of how Guilty Gear eventually grew on me. Although that is mostly due to my distaste for the visual direction every other fighting game I previously admired had taken until 2014. However, some of my old disdain for Guilty Gear may have been fueled by my Saturn loyalty, in addition to the inconsistent animation quality of early GG (higher resolution ain't gonna hide that), and my distaste for that era of anime aesthetic (it was positively Liefeldian with it's gritted teeth, head pieces, and belts/straps).
In the meantime, I guess I'm Principle Skinner...
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(9):Whip it good!" , posted Sat 20 Nov 17:17
quote:
And here I was reading and thinking about Juri's actual taint ...
But yes you are correct.
I don't think any of these games will ever come back in satisfactory shape (for us).
Boy it's been a long week/year/life...
*note to self, use "stain" moving forward to denote a tarnished mark*
I'm willing to adapt to the necessary evil of visual downgrades to games from smaller publishers, it's just adapting to the character designs. Then again, KoF14 had a good mix of mature fighters who didn't skew to, what I'd now call, the K-Pop demographic. Not sure if there's a better term of that pop music / hiphop clothing style (good lord have I existed long enough for the baggy aesthetic of the 90's to be re-entering the nostalgia cycle) some of the new characters have. Again, not that it's bad - just as a middle aged guy, it doesn't speak to me.
Pretty grim times when you are officially older than the heroes you grew up reading in comics, and seek representation in games, but have to skew to the geezer archetype as "middle aged" is somewhat lacking (at least in terms of new character entries). :p
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| | "Re(2):Angel trailer" , posted Fri 26 Nov 00:31:
quote:
Anyway, it's nice to see her back, but it's weird that she wasn't presented in any team... weren't there only two teams left in the default roster (K''s and Ash's)? If she isn't in either of these teams... which team is hers, after all?
We know five unassigned characters: Ash, K', Kukri, Whip, and Angel. Video of the character select screen show Ash and K' on separate teams. You'd think Angel would finish a team.
Wait, have we somehow miscounted? The base game advertises 39 characters (13 teams, with the character select screen already allotting another four teams and a solo entrant). But there are only 35 character trailers (which does properly count the double entrant trailers).
So there are four more trailers, not one. Which also means there are three incomplete teams, not two. Unless I've forgotten an entire known but not officially trailer'ed team?
EDIT: Skimming through previous posts, it looks like it might just have been some confusion generated between posts, and everyone just accepted that there were X characters left, and we started trying to figure out who was on Team Isla, Team Ash, and Team K'. So there really are four remaining characters and three teams?
[this message was edited by Baines on Fri 26 Nov 00:47] |
| | "Re(3):Angel trailer" , posted Fri 26 Nov 02:30
quote:
Anyway, it's nice to see her back, but it's weird that she wasn't presented in any team... weren't there only two teams left in the default roster (K''s and Ash's)? If she isn't in either of these teams... which team is hers, after all?
We know five unassigned characters: Ash, K', Kukri, Whip, and Angel. Video of the character select screen show Ash and K' on separate teams. You'd think Angel would finish a team.
Wait, have we somehow miscounted? The base game advertises 39 characters (13 teams, with the character select screen already allotting another four teams and a solo entrant). But there are only 35 character trailers (which does properly count the double entrant trailers).
So there are four more trailers, not one. Which also means there are three incomplete teams, not two. Unless I've forgotten an entire known but not officially trailer'ed team?
EDIT: Skimming through previous posts, it looks like it might just have been some confusion generated between posts, and everyone just accepted that there were X characters left, and we started trying to figure out who was on Team Isla, Team Ash, and Team K'. So there really are four remaining characters and three teams?
Oh my, you're right! I was somehow assuming that there were only two teams left, but I checked Wikipedia and there are indeed three teams yet to be revealed. Thank you for pointing that out!
So I guess this could mean that Ash and Kukri won't be teaming up, and we'll have Team Ash, Team K' and Team Kukri. Whip is probably on Team K', but I have no idea of which team Ángel could be in (Team K' would make most sense with her past as a former NESTS agent, but since her trailer didn't end up revealing it, she's probably on one of the other two teams).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(1):Ice Princess" , posted Sat 8 Jan 01:15
quote:
Snowman are a part of her arsenal now.
I know how important she is in the SNK waifu department. So, she had to be in. I liked using her in XIV, and it looks like she will be just as fun to use here.
No expectations shattered this week (except for the snowman, and while it is a surprise, it's debatable whether it's a good one; I think it looks kinda stupid and out of place in a KOF game).
But next week should be interesting. We already have a good idea of who will be revealed, but this character hasn't been shown as a 3D model yet.
Come to think of it, XV has a roster that could belong to a dream match game, doesn't it? We have the Orochi Team, a NESTS team, Ash... it's only missing Mature and Vice (and maybe the '94 Sports Team). Maybe they'll be present in an eventual KOF XVI.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| |  "Re(3):Ice Princess" , posted Sat 8 Jan 06:00
quote:
No expectations shattered this week (except for the snowman, and while it is a surprise, it's debatable whether it's a good one; I think it looks kinda stupid and out of place in a KOF game).
But next week should be interesting. We already have a good idea of who will be revealed, but this character hasn't been shown as a 3D model yet.
Come to think of it, XV has a roster that could belong to a dream match game, doesn't it? We have the Orochi Team, a NESTS team, Ash... it's only missing Mature and Vice (and maybe the '94 Sports Team). Maybe they'll be present in an eventual KOF XVI.
Indeed, I just wish the soundtrack is good. I've been listening to the 96/97/98/99 Arranged Soundtracks on YouTube and they are all so good. But then again that was a lifetime ago; when SNK had a proper sound/music team.
Yeah, the soundtrack so far hasn't grabbed me, except for the Fatal Fury team. I love their theme!
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| | "Feel the profundity of strategic card battle" , posted Sat 15 Jan 03:50:
quote:
More or less is what you said: different protagonists, a couple of cards exclusive to each version, and some other minor differences, like there are machines that drop cards (IIRC there are some differences like locations and / or what they drop), also some NPCs are different?
That reminds me, I love the various card recycling features in this game. You can convert a number of lower-rarity cards to a random higher rarity through a card trading machine, win random cards (sometimes pretty good) through the crane game machines, or get specific cards by trading in multiple equal rarity cards (e.g., trading three duplicate rares for a rare you don't have).
Every card game needs something like it, and I think it's a good alternative to the now universally adopted "destroy cards to gain currency, use currency to craft cards" system. Having traders and machines also enhanced the RPG-lite aspect they had going on.
Honestly a great game, and as mentioned before some really fun art and fun/obscure characters.
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Sat 15 Jan 03:51] |
| PSN: Gojira_X
XBL: Gojiraaa
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STM: 29347508
CFN: Gojira
| "Re(4):Feel the profundity of strategic card b" , posted Mon 17 Jan 06:38
quote:
Also the game sucked (I think I wrote already in the past about it somewhere here)
Absolutely, that game was terrible. I don't remember why exactly, except... they used a sort of energy system a la Yugiô instead of the simple system of the NGP games, and also the art sucked horribly.
Really, a simple evolution "it's the same game with 100 more cards and maybe an extra system added for the sake of it" would have been perfect. What could have been...
I blame Falcon, even though I don't remember why.
Yeah I remember something like depending on who went first it gave way too much advantage at the start of the game. I played the game long after it was new and honestly I remember absolutely nothing about it aside from Gyakuten Saiban and Cool Cool Toon cards
I think the only hope is CFC2, since they would have to translate it anyway just to release it outside of Japan. Maybe it will force them to do a little extra development on the emulator, add online functionality, and then maybe they can patch all of their NGPC ports to have a simplified version of online play that simulates a link battle over the internet.
Of course that's wishful thinking, and it IS a Nintendo platform, so... yeah...
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| | "Re(1):KoF XV / 39 Characters / expectations s" , posted Mon 31 Jan 08:48
quote:
So all 39 characters have been revealed, probably the 40th will be the unlockable boss.
Were your expectations shattered?
Personally I'm glad for some characters returning, some new characters seem interesting, teams were shuffled as promised, but I'm not sure it is really "expectations shattering" so far.
Lots of the new characters from XIV are missing and who knows when they will get their story goings on (we are still waiting for Kensou dragon power arc or whatever it was called to be continued/concluded, since 2001).
I hope at least story will not be too bad or lacking.
Some of mine were. Most of them not being about who was announced, but mainly about who wasn’t.
I was surprised with SNK’s decision to not include Kim and Kensou (and also a little about Chang and Choi, even if the two of them are somehow less relevant). I kinda expected Mature and Vice to take a break in XV, but it’s still kinda sad considering that XV’s roster is pretty much a dream match roster (and the two of them have always been in dream match games) in a canon KOF game…
As for fighters who returned, I kinda already expected the Orochi team and Ash… but Krohnen? Not really.
Some teams are quite unexpected. I like the idea of King joining Ryo and Robert, and also SNK making the Mai, Yuri and Athena team-up official for the first time (KOF R-1 notwithstanding). On the other hand, Blue Mary’s team feels very unnecessary (even if the three of them are interesting characters individually, their team-up feels very uninteresting).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):KoF XV / 39 Characters / expectations s" , posted Mon 31 Jan 12:24
quote:
On the other hand, Blue Mary’s team feels very unnecessary (even if the three of them are interesting characters individually, their team-up feels very uninteresting).
Even the team story appears thrown together. It pushes the idea that everyone is working for different groups and goals, and also establishes that Mary and Luong (currently) do not get along. But it also feels like the writers are trying to turn this random grouping into an actual story-driven team.
Vanessa needs to perform an unnamed job during the tournament. In exchange for helping Mary and Luong, they both agree to help Vanessa perform her job.
Luong is seemingly working for Hein to obtain an unnamed object. Luong wants to enter the KOF tournament, but claims she doesn't have a team because Gang-Il is busy. In exchange for agreeing to help Vanessa and Mary, she gets to join Vanessa's team.
Mary is investigating Hein, and thus also investigating Luong. In exchange for helping Vanessa and Luong, Luong and Vanessa will give Mary intel she's seeking.
While the arrangement could blow up with attempted double-crosses, I feel it is more likely that their various goals will mesh in a mutually beneficial manner. What I find most likely is that either Luong is playing Hein or Luong is assisting Hein in playing Geese. Considering Vanessa's willingness, Luong may even be working with Vanessa, and I wouldn't be surprised if the object Luong seeks is connected to Vanessa's unnamed job. The other alternative is that Mary and Luong don't end up allies, but aren't enemies either simply because Luong isn't loyally working for the Howard Connection and is quite willing to give Mary useful intel about the organization.
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| |  "Re(1):KoF XV / 39 Characters / expectations s" , posted Tue 1 Feb 05:32
quote:
So all 39 characters have been revealed, probably the 40th will be the unlockable boss.
Were your expectations shattered?
Personally I'm glad for some characters returning, some new characters seem interesting, teams were shuffled as promised, but I'm not sure it is really "expectations shattering" so far.
Lots of the new characters from XIV are missing and who knows when they will get their story goings on (we are still waiting for Kensou dragon power arc or whatever it was called to be continued/concluded, since 2001).
I hope at least story will not be too bad or lacking.
All of my expectations were shattered. I'm very happy with this cast.
While it is unfortunate some of my XIV faves didn't make it in, (Hein, Sylvie, Love Heart, Zarina) the additions of Dolores, Isla and Team Orochi have made up for it.
The popular argument right now is Kim not making it in. But, I say, that's okay. Kim Kaphwan is a great character. But the FGC at large needs to start accepting the fact even legacy characters have to take a backseat. Plus, all those wanting Kim in won't be using him when the game is released. I guarantee.
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| | "Re(7):Team Garou and Team Southtown confirmed" , posted Wed 2 Feb 09:18
quote:
But would they even need to be part of the mass resurrection event to appear in XV? They didn't need it when they joined Iori in XIII and XIV...
Oh well, maybe they're just tired of each other. If I remember correctly, while Mature and Vice always appear together, SNK has established that they're not actually friends or lovers, just coworkers on the quest to bring Orochi back.
I don't know if SNK has ever clarified just what Mature and Vice's status means. From character comments and descriptions, they aren't fully alive. But we can see that they seem to be able to freely interact with others, and they even bring Iori the invitation letter for KOFXIV. The implication was that they were able to appear at KOFXIII because it was a special time, which was also depicted with a red moon. KOFXIV is also set up as a special time (and again there is a red moon when they deliver the invitation to Iori), with stuff going on with the dead due to Verse.
At the same time, KOFXIV also ends with the seal on Orochi being renewed, which might weaken whatever has been letting Mature and Vice operate seemingly freely.
As for the second matter, are the current Vice and Mature even that invested in reviving Orochi? Iori losing his powers should have been a benefit to that cause, weakening or outright eliminating one of the Three Sacred Treasures. But Mature and Vice not only help Iori regain his powers, they are relatively positive with his decision to do so. And indeed, Iori goes on to help repair Orochi's seal after the next tournament.
Honestly, how devoted were Mature and Vice all along? KOF97 showed Yashiro, and possibly the rest of the New Faces, were willing to sacrifice themselves to revive Orochi. But others are certainly less devoted to the cause. And death could also certainly reshape their opinions in either (or both) directions.
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| | "Re(2):Dumpster fire masquerading as narrative" , posted Sun 6 Feb 05:03
quote:
The Virtua Fighter developers probably agree with you.
Then again, VF does have a story (which actually got quite interesting in VF4 and VF5); it's just that Sega never bothered to show it inside the games, rather than just keeping it in the manuals and website... still, it never prevented any of the characters from returning from one game to the other (thus Taka's lame storyline excuse to explain his absence in VF4/Evo, when we all know it was really due to programming issues because of his size).
This could be another reason why I'm so fond of VF that I've overlooked sans analysis. :b
Don't get me wrong, the hilarious and absolutely mad tales adjacent to certain fighting games (KoF) make for an interesting afternoon of wiki reading, and head scratching at how utterly ridiculous things become as the narrative spirals out of control; but - at best the stories in fighting games have all of the storytelling merit of a Choose Your Own Adventure books.
Granted, I would hazard that CYOA books have a wider reach and more cultural impact on a generation than any esteemed fighting game; but fighting games should learn from CYOA books. Structured narratives in fighting games take a back seat to the core of the game itself - one on one combat. However, a loose frame work; and the players main character (despite the marketing push of the character on the game's cover / mascot) is The Protagonist for that player.
It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
I realize somebody may come along and counter with, "But Midway games!" and I will fall back on, those games may sell well; but they are not respected and do not have to long lasting competitive player base. This may be a contentious example, but Mortal Combat is to Street Fighter; as the WNBA is to the NBA.
At their core - fighting games may be a difficult sell as coherent narrative devices because the primary game play does not lend itself well to a single player experience. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but with the precarity of the fighting game market, budgets, and development cycles - creating say, an expansive belt scrolling beat'em up, or Tobal style quest mode isn't a proven model developers are presently willing to pursue.
I say this as a fan of the genre who watches non-fans lament their inability to appreciate the genre, and to that I say; I understand their pain when I see an RPG with cool character designs; but console RPG's are the gaming equivalent of a horse tranquilizer for me. Why can't they put those cool character designs in an action RPG instead? Fortunately we're in a place where some companies like Koei-Tecmo will meet me in the middle by cutting and pasting Licensed Property characters into the Musou mold. It doesn't always work, but when it does I do appreciate it; even if it's the "lesser work" of a particular series.
I'm sure Dragon Quest purists would love to see me booted into a volcano for preferring DQ Warriors to the proper game.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(3):Dumpster fire masquerading as narrative" , posted Sun 6 Feb 06:50:
quote:
I'm sure Dragon Quest purists would love to see me booted into a volcano for preferring DQ Warriors
Well yes  …but I see the point about not overloading fighters with too much story! I think SF Zero 3 did it perfectly, with lots of random brief chats before fights with characters who mean something to whoever you're playing as---no complex Guilty Gear or Tekken-like story in the background, but a small story centered around personalities rather than major plot.
Then again, if KOF is about major story (I wouldn't know), there may be something to it: here we have a series that is far from technologically advanced or even particularly good-looking, yet people all over the world have been drawn to it (and the Cafe) based on these characters and the world they inhabit. Is KOF more about the fashion, the characters' interactions, or how those two things are placed in a bigger world? All the SNK pros here can answer better than I can, but Virtua surely hasn't been helped by its anonymous, featureless world even if it's great technically.
And like we were saying in the other thread, lots of people actually like single player mode=story, and while they may not be our crowd, keeping casual players in mind gets you more and better games, and assures no SFV-like launches, so everyone can be happy!
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
[this message was edited by Maou on Sun 6 Feb 06:57] |
| | "The benefits of narrative" , posted Mon 7 Feb 03:54:
quote:
I am, and always will be, of the mind that "stories" in fighting games are only a troublesome impediment to a games roster.
I'll make the counter-argument; stories in fighting games give life to characters, help expand game rosters, and help the games themselves grow and survive.
Stories are only as much of an impediment as you design and allow them to be. Having a story doesn't require that you kill off characters. Nor does it prevent you from creating new reasons for characters to return. Even "dead" characters. Don't blame the general idea of "fighting game stories" for the decisions made by specific game designers. If the designers really want a character to be in a game, then that character will be in that game regardless of what story dictates.
Even when characters are written out through the story, it may ultimately just be an aid in necessary roster culling. Most fighting game series continue to add new characters, to the point that it quickly becomes impractical or even impossible for all the already existing characters to return. The story becomes an assistance in picking which characters to cut, or a justification after a character is cut.
While stories can be driven by ideas for new character and changes to existing character, stories can also drive those same things. Without stories, while there is nothing preventing designers from making the exact same changes, rosters can potentially end up more stagnant.
Virtua Fighter has been given as an example of a story-less game, or at least a game where the devs didn't bother to present the story to the players. Its roster grew so slowly that culling wasn't necessary, though Taka-Arashi was cut for quite an extended period anyway. Virtua Fighter, despite being one of the biggest name fighting game franchises, is also pretty much dead. While you can put that blame on Sega, and some will claim it was instead too "technical" to draw and hold fans, I'd argue it is in part because the game never really offered a story to engage or grow player interest.
As much as people disliked it at the time, story gave us Street Fighter III; Third Strike would eventually be seen as a pillar of fighting games. Story gave us Mark of the Wolves. Story sustains KOF. Marvel vs Capcom itself barely had a story, but it was built on the years and decades of existing character stories. Though SNK messed up almost immediate, story helped draw attention to and interest in Samurai Shodown. Mortal Kombat's story presentation helped keep its popularity high. Guilty Gear maintains a single cohesive story throughout both its fighting games and its spin-offs. Melty Blood came out of a story. Skullgirls kept people interested through the story of its world.
[this message was edited by Baines on Mon 7 Feb 04:10] |
| | "Re(1):The benefits of narrative" , posted Mon 7 Feb 06:20:
Here are thoughts on specific franchises.
The King of Fighters
The King of Fighters has seen a number of characters written out over the years, sometimes to fan frustration. KOF also uses story to keep bringing in new bosses to face, new rivals, and at least making a token effort of establishing new heroic mains.
But we've also seen that story alone doesn't keep characters from reappearing. Rugal was introduced and killed in KOF'94, only to return and be killed again in KOF'95. While officially dead, he appeared in two numbered (dream match) KOFs, was a non-canon Striker in KOF2000, and has appeared in numerous crossover games. He also spawned a legacy character, Adelheid. Rugal is presumably alive again due to KOF14's mass resurrection, and will allegedly be a DLC character for KOF15.
Mature and Vice were made playable in KOF'96, and were immediately killed. They not only returned in dream matches, they've continued to compete in KOF while dead.
KOF's own crossover alternate universe status has led to characters that were dead in their main series (Geese, Krauser) being alive within KOF.
The simple truth of KOF is that it has an absurdly large character pool, and the designers need every excuse they can think of to slash any one game's roster to a reasonable production size. Even major characters aren't always guaranteed a roster spot. KOF has also used the occasional dream match to keep characters that are no longer story-critical in circulation.
Street Fighter
Street Fighter's narrative is a dumpster fire, and it keeps getting worse for various reasons. You could say it is bad writing (and it is), but it is also stuff like the fan base. Sure, people complain about how the over-indulgent shoto-focus is killing Street Fighter and how the series needs to move on from Dictator, but those are the things that sell. Mix in bad planning from the start and too many different groups writing official and semi-official stories and you get a confusing, annoying mess. It isn't that story itself is bad, it is that Capcom has been completely awful at handling story.
Street Fighter did a major roster switch with its second (and first successful) game. Capcom hasn't let story get in the way of throwing whatever characters it wants into games. How many times has Dictator died? People didn't even know if Rose was alive for SFV, because her fate had bounced around so much between Alpha releases and SF4 and outside material like the Udon comics. Nash was killed before he was ever introduced, showed up in a prequel series, was brought back as Franken-Nash after his death, with the story being that his resurrect self was breaking down. But does anyone believe that Capcom won't bring him back for SF6 if they really want him back?
Samurai Shodown
Samurai Shodown is the warning case not only for not thinking about the consequences of killing characters, but also the example for how to bungle resolving the "issue".
Capcom might be avoiding creating a post-SF3 Street Fighter, but SNK managed to get Samurai Shodown mired after only two games.
It must have only been after the fact that SNK second-guessed their ideas of killing off what had become a company mascot character, what remained a popular rival character, and what had become an iconic boss character. The solution was to do everything, and to do it badly.
The main series became stuck in a never ending series of prequels, seemingly to avoid the consequences of the aftermath of SS2. SNK even literally doubled down on some of the returns, while everyone saw Slash and Bust forms, both Amakusa and Nakoruru had storyline separate forms.
Meanwhile, the SS64 games retconned SS2's deaths. Nakoruru simply went to sleep for a long time while Ukyo kept continuing to not die from his fatal illness.
Just to make sure fans couldn't have nice things, and because SNK hadn't learned its lesson, there was a PS1 3D game locking down a far future that no one wanted, asked for, or cared about afterward. Oh, and it turned Nakoruru and Rimururu into immortal fairies, which SNK itself would probably rather ignore, considering time/reality-traveling Nakoruru shows up in KOF as a regular girl.
It's sadly funny that this trainwreck came out of a series that was originally praised for how its storyline was handled, and which even had an ill-fated RPG spin-off that was meant to expand and retell that story.
Guilty Gear
Guilty Gear has grown into a somewhat different solution than other games. For most franchises, if a desired playable character doesn't fit into the desired story, then they either get shoehorned into the story (more likely) or get cut from the playable roster (less likely). With Guilty Gear these days, the story and roster are fairly divorced. Yes, the desire to reuse assets between the two causes them to affect each other to a degree, and the story may drive the introduction of some new characters. At the same time, the designers are perfectly happy to have May be playable in Strive without feeling the need to create a scene where she saves Sol with a dolphin attack.
Though I do wonder about a post-Strive future... Strive's story could be viewed as a natural end for Guilty Gear. There are still some dangling side-character stories, but decades old plot lines have been resolved while the known threats to the world have seemingly been settled. Sure, some new world endangering threat could be introduced that will draw Sol out of his peaceful countryside happy ending, but it would also risk feeling extremely contrived and/or tacked on.
[this message was edited by Baines on Mon 7 Feb 06:24] |
| | "Re(2):The benefits of narrative" , posted Mon 7 Feb 23:35
quote:
Here are thoughts on specific franchises.
Great analysis!
I was thinking about Tekken's storyline this weekend. From 1 to 5, I'd say Bamco has done a pretty good job, helping to establish each character's identity and giving the game an overall story that didn't compromise the roster selection - while Tekken 3 had Ogre killing several martial artists around the world (which was an excuse to get rid of most of the T2 fighters and replace them with a new generation), they did a smart move by avoiding to give the actual names of his victims (we only know that King-I was one of them, Jun may or may not be one of them, and Michelle was almost one of them but ended up surviving). Thus, when Tekken 5 came, they were able to bring most of the old fighters back (only the older women like Jun and Michelle are still absent because Bamco doesn't seem to like middle-aged women unless they have storyline excuses to look younger like Nina, Anna and Kazumi).
However, I feel that Tekken 6 and 7 took a bad turn in this area. While Tekken always had serious and dark themes (the Mishimas constantly trying to kill each other, demons causing chaos and so on), it was always balanced with silly and comical side plots (Kuma, Xiaoyu, Paul, Mokujin, the increasingly ridiculous rivalry of the Williams sisters...). We still have them in 6 and 7, but the overall story became too dark to me, with Jin causing a world war with lots of innocent people dying (and he was supposed to be the franchise's hero... T7 tried to redeem him, but I don't think that's possible now), and then Heihachi being permanently killed off.
And while Tekken 7 adopted the current trend of releasing seasons of additional characters as DLC, Bamco did a very poor job with their narratives. Like SFV or hate it, it at least provided some minimum backstory to its DLC fighters with its little story chapters and the endings in Arcade mode; meanwhile, Tekken 7's additional characters basically only got some small backstory in their trailers, with no in-game prologues, endings or cutscenes - basically following the VF formula. Did Anna cross paths with Nina in T7? Did newcomers like Leroy, Lidia and Fahkumram did anything at all in the tournament? What happened to the original Kunimitsu that made her daughter replace her (other than Bamco disliking middle-aged women as fighters)? Lots of questions left unanswered until Tekken 8 comes - and only if these characters actually return in Tekken 8.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(3):The benefits of narrative" , posted Tue 8 Feb 02:06
Great comments here from both Baines and Just a Person!
Street Fighter is interesting in that you can really separate the overall story (awful and unimportant, which Capcom itself has admitted in interviews) from the character interactions (wonderful, and do not require you to know a thing about the story). SFV's dramatic story mode is best forgotten other than for Zangief's muscle power moment, which is really more in line with the fun character interaction traditions anyhow! As Ishamel said, even with the sloppy Bengus art, SFV's little character story modes are exactly what we want. I am delighted to know more about Honda's spreading of my love of bathhouses even while having no concern about how he is fighting Gill's evil plot.
Speaking of terrible plots, one of many reasons I find SFIII such a mistake is that there's a dumb, convoluted Illuminati story taking up space, yet the paper-thin and uninteresting characters have no interactions at all! I knew and cared more about the original World Warriors in SFII than I ever did about Dudley's dumb car or whatever Q is supposed to be besides a Robot Keiji ripoff. This is probably why Super SFIV's weird bonus OAV struck such a sour note: a long, serious, grim, and uninteresting story along the lines of what Pencilero rightly criticizes. I just want Sakura and friends sitting on beach chairs on the deck of a boat like in the main game.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(5):The benefits of narrative" , posted Tue 8 Feb 12:55
If you really want to do a big production story, I've come to believe Guilty Gear has the best approach. While Netherrealm popularized cinematic stories, and Namco is decent at it, even when done well their approach tends to see some characters shoehorned in just because they are in the playable roster, and include fights that are shoehorned in just so the player won't go too long without a playable battle. Worse, those playable battles break up the flow if you ever want to watch that high production experience as an actual movie. (As for Capcom, their A Shadow Falls was instead a course on how to fail at producing a cinematic story.)
The Guilty Gear approach dodges all that. The down side is that the Guilty Gear approach can mean a decent percentage of the roster miss out entirely. Arc System Works somewhat mitigates this with epilogues and side stories, but a decently sized pool of characters means some will still be under-represented or missed entirely in a cinematic production. An upside is that the Guilty Gear approach lends itself well to telling stories for both important non-playable characters as well as previously playable characters that happened to miss that game's roster. (A prime example is Xrd Rev 2's After Story C Part 1, which is a 25 minute story devoted to King Daryl and his subordinates. Not only was Zappa the only character involved who had ever been playable, he wasn't even playable in Rev 2.)
For giving everyone a character moment, I was ultimately surprised to realize that is where Street Fighter V managed to shine. Those barely-there character specific story modes turned out to be an ideal way of doing something with every single playable character (even if Capcom skimped on some), at presumably affordable production costs and decently fast time.
These stories could act to fill in gaps of the main story, or to create additional character-specific prologues and/or epilogues. They could also cover events entirely unrelated to the main story. With even minimal planning, these simple stories could overlap with and expand the events of other characters' stories, while still remaining self-contained for the intended character. Without the drive to force in reference to the big epic story, every story could also actually happen (unlike the classic approach to arcade endings.)
For playable big stories, I don't know. I think there was real potential with Soul Calibur's Edge Master mode. Similarly, you could build a gameplay-driven story with an approach like Killer Instinct's Shadow Mode. Or Street Fighter Alpha 3's World Tour.
It's kind of funny that Virtua Fighter, one of the series least interested in telling an in-game story, once instead delivered a story about playing the arcade game Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution. (VF4E's Quest Mode)
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| | "Re(6):The benefits of narrative" , posted Tue 8 Feb 20:02
quote:
For playable big stories, I don't know. I think there was real potential with Soul Calibur's Edge Master mode. Similarly, you could build a gameplay-driven story with an approach like Killer Instinct's Shadow Mode. Or Street Fighter Alpha 3's World Tour.
It's kind of funny that Virtua Fighter, one of the series least interested in telling an in-game story, once instead delivered a story about playing the arcade game Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution. (VF4E's Quest Mode)
Interesting; I never thought of VF4E's Quest Mode as some sort of meta story mode. But it was great.
As for Killer Instinct, it's curious how each of its three seasons approached story in a different way. Shadow Lords Mode was indeed a very interesting idea, even allowing some story branching (though the cutscenes are always the same) - still, it's quite sad that because the Season 3 characters have their stories told in this mode, they're not available in the more conventional Arcade Mode...
(plus, the three final newcomers don't even get cutscenes in SL, only having some text dialogues like every other character. And while Mira gets cutscenes, she's not even shown in SL's main ending)
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(4):The benefits of narrative" , posted Wed 9 Feb 00:19
quote:
I think SF Zero 3 did it perfectly, with lots of random brief chats before fights with characters who mean something to whoever you're playing as...
quote:
It's funny, I love little character bits and nonsensical chunks of lore, but there is no way I'm going to sit through the story modes of MK or GG.
This is what I prefer, the onion ring at the bottom of order or french fries; or the errant french fries hiding at the bottom of your take out bag. A pleasant bonus.
There is a lot of visual story telling and character rapport that could be done in these games, that developers pass on. Guilty Gear Strive still has these little exchanges before matches begin; and I still feel it's imperative that fighting games deliver narrative through the game play. I would take this further, since fighting games are so very visually driven, to also eliminate user interface clutter by having visual effects present on character models.
Why do we need a super/ultra/pow meter when Dragonball and The Last Dragon have provided us adequate visual iconography for "powered up" combatants? Players know these visual cues and it would declutter the game interface to integrate visual effects into the character visuals. The net benefit is you have a more visually dynamic game that has flashy visuals spectators enjoy.
quote:
Speaking of terrible plots, one of many reasons I find SFIII such a mistake is that there's a dumb, convoluted Illuminati story taking up space, yet the paper-thin and uninteresting characters have no interactions at all! I knew and cared more about the original World Warriors in SFII than I ever did about Dudley's dumb car or whatever Q is supposed to be besides a Robot Keiji ripoff.
Well, this is a difficult question to ask given it requires effort to re-contextualize your familiarity with the game; but how did your impressions of SF2 series characters feel in 1992? Much of what you mention was added after the fact, after years of sprite recycling, budgets booming, and Capcom and it's animators spicing up the recipe by adding new flourishes like unique introduction animations since say 95% of the animation used in games was already done.
In OG Street Fighter 2; much of what my friends and I enjoyed about the game was the characters and our own head canon. Given there was barely any story and no character interactions, a high school friend and fellow comic book reader speculated that these characters were akin the Marvel's X-Men thanks to mishearing the then foreign to Western ears and un-transcribed "Hadouken" as "You mutant!" I didn't know much about my main Chun Li outside of she was a pretty and agile lady with muscular legs and strong kicks.
I enjoyed a lot of the Street Fighter 3 cast as it was happening, not postmortem. Then again, I would say I demonstrate openess to experience in my fighting games (new roster, new mechanics, and a love of CPS-3 games pushing sprite animation forward), and have low functional attachment to nostalgia - that may also have been fueled by being a huge Street Fighter fan for most of the 1990's, to the point where I was the butt of jokes amongst friends who fell off the fighting game wagon as popularity of the genre faded. That's not to say in 1997 I suddenly hated Street Fighter 2; but that after several years of mocking that Street Fighter 3 was never going to happen, I was elated to be reading gameplay reports on alt.games.sf2 and seeing concept art scans posted to The Magic Box and TK's Sega Saturn Page. Did I miss Chun Li in SF3? Sure, but I was intrigued at how to get good with Necro in her stead.
quote:
Is KOF more about the fashion, the characters' interactions, or how those two things are placed in a bigger world?
I am not an authority on KoF, and it's only within the past decade that I sat down to read about the KoF games (appropriate music for reading fighting game wikis) to discover they have a DC Comics style multiverse with different Geese Howard's and Terry Bogards; and nearly every main character in KoF is Kyo. Where in the past I had just assumed it was the SNK franchise tournament, with no consideration to alternate timelines...
Kyo is Kyo.
K' is Kyo.
Krizalid is Kyo.
K9999 is Kyo.
Nameless is Kyo.
Reading about King of Fighters is like peeling an onion, and ending up holding a mango after you've started peeling.
*baffled Jackie Chan dot jpeg*
quote:
...but Virtua surely hasn't been helped by its anonymous, featureless world even if it's great technically.
quote:
Then again, some people like the dry bread and water approach of VF, so I guess it takes all kinds.
The thing is, from my impression, Virtua Fighter never received a fair shake outside of Japan until VF4 - when the series was no longer "trapped" on low selling / doomed Sega consoles (Sega's eternal shame for allowing Namco to show them up on their own platform with Soul Calibur - flashbacks to key moments from Harakiri replay in my mind ((Spoilers for Harakiri 1962))). Virtua Fighter 5 was hobbled by disparate console releases, with some editions lacking crucial online play for Western markets. Effectively stifling any forward momentum coming out of VF4 Evolution. I digress, the original question would be - if we could ask the VF community back in the heyday of VF dominating Japanese arcades what kept them coming back?
Then again, this is my being a VF fan feeling my beloved franchise is being attacked; but VF is not unique. I have never played a fighting game for the story, or gone back to a fighting game because of the story. I choose the characters I think look cool, and if I can grasp their game play; I use them. Chun-Li, Galford, Jacky Bryant, Basara, Andy Bogard, etc.
What I'm getting at is, I don't feel it's the lack of story that keeps audiences cool on VF. The most common complaint I read from non-VF players is "The characters are boring" (a complaint they also use for KoF, before it spirals out into even more pithy nonsense such as "boring names" - whoa, sorry we don't have exotic names like Ryu, Ken, and Edmond here...) which I would argue is entirely divorced from game narrative, and down to focusing too heavily on crafting a balanced and enjoyable fighting engine. I'm the parlance of today's youngsters, "VF has no drip", which means Sega ought to put some stank on it in a more vintage vernacular. :p
Citing again an example I believe I've made here in the past - Wolf Hawkfield is a character I really enjoy playing; but the character only superficially embodies the puroresu ethos. He may have one of the best move sets for my liking in Virtua Fighter; but as a pro wrestler he's about as "over" as Iron Mike Sharpe. In wrestling terms, poor Wolf in the pantheon of fighting games would go down as "a solid worker" and not a superstar. :(
Virtua Fighter 4 also teased Sega's willingness to delve into different character presentations, but they need to push further. VF5 flatlined - despite adding Eileen (the potential to be the best non SF3 Makoto young girl fighting game character) and El Blaze who are both awesome with cool play styles, but El Blaze is no Fuego. Give the characters more vocal lines, more win poses, better lose poses, in general - give the damned characters some personality.
quote:
However, I feel that Tekken 6 and 7 took a bad turn in this area.
I'm not shocked. To read Harada's influences years after the fact, and weigh them against the finished products; the man's influences never make it to the final product. Tekken feels like a mish-mash of nonsense, and ill fitting characters. In terms of fighting game producers, I'd say Harada is the Zack Snyder of the industry - pulling influences from awesome outside sources, and utterly butchering it in the translation.
Even if SFxTK was a bucket of doodoo, I did enjoy being able to play some of the cooler Tekken characters in a game that was not Tekken. Which wasn't much of a leap for me as I have never felt Tekken was a competent 3D fighting game for the first seven years of it's existence (emphasis on movement and spatial awareness with arenas). I also wasn't a fan of the game's goofy ass physics and arcade operator placating aggression. Tekken to me, was the poster child of UNGA BUNGA fighting games for the longest time, which colors my impression to this day.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| PSN: beatolover
XBL: Dead
Wii: Dead
STM: bugrom1067
CFN: rugalbgood
| "Re(2):Kof 15 launch" , posted Fri 18 Feb 23:03:
quote:
So how is the full release? I watched a few matches and it was mostly Robert endlessly slapping people with a ridiculous combo.
Vanessa and Elizabeth gets more than 50% damage off a crouching LP with barely any meter expenditure. Others, like Antonov, have very easy 100% combos that cost 5 bars of meter that you will never land because using him is like driving a bulldozer in the Monaco Grand Prix and hoping for a win (and he still lacks a decent low, c'mon!)
Basically, it's KOF.
Edit: having played it for a few days now and in an attempt to answer without pissing and moaning too much (and, having landed the aforementioned combo a few times now, to retract my “you will never land this” statement… Antonov still sucks, though) I do think it’s pretty solid and has good netplay; if you’ve never really gotten too in to KOF before I also think this is a really good entry point; everything is pretty easy, it’s just a really high damage game.
Edit edit: Also, the ability to customize the soundtrack allows me to set virtually all the music in the game to this.
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Mon 21 Feb 09:54] |
| | "KOF15 story presentation and thoughts" , posted Sat 19 Feb 12:54:
I still haven't spent that much time with it, but I did a run through Story mode with Team Orochi.
If you just want to burn through story mode without dealing with KOF being KOF, then setting the CPU difficulty to "1" pretty much turns the AI into a punching bag. Mind, it is still a KOF AI, so on the rare occasion you might still lose half a life bar to a combo or super.
Basic boss info spoiler:
For all the extra effort put into general presentation, there is very little story intrusion, or story at all within the game itself. You get a couple of cutscenes involve Isla's story (even if you aren't playing anyone related to that). While KOF story had gotten overly intrusive, in some ways this feels slightly too far in the other direction. You don't even see your team when Clemence is presenting the tournament winners, you are apparently off camera. Then it cuts to Isla being in the middle of the arena (even though her team wasn't even my final opponent) for the boss reveal.
There are some alternate mid-story cutscenes, but apparently only for a handful of teams. (I remember seeing listings for Hero, Rival, and Ash, and there was maybe another?)
Team ending itself (Team Orochi) is a decently long character piece, even if it uses only a few still shots and a lot of text (no voice). There is also a super short "Bonus Ending" after the full credits, I assume this unlocks even if you skip the credits? (I didn't skip the credits this time.) In the case of Team Orochi, the ending has pretty much nothing to do with the big KOF XV story, it is just the team relaxing and talking about stuff. Side note: Unless Shermie means a different Sylvie, does this ending establish that Shermie knows and is on decent to good terms with Sylvie Paula Paula? (Shermie mentions asking Sylvie something.)
The song that plays during the regular credit roll is not something I'd expect in a KOF game. Sadly, it instead made me think of how SNK used to make tie-in songs for their games. (Like Blue Mary singing in Real Bout Fatal Fury Special, Athena's band playing after one of the KOF games, Sylvie Paula Paula hijacking the ending theme of SNK Heroines with her own song, ...) This is just a song that doesn't fit the story or the theme (other than mentioning disasters happening.)
The Gallery and DJ Station (music player) do display the unlock conditions for locked material, which is mostly useful. (This is also how you can see which teams get other cutscenes.) Though for special Edit teams, you are only given two of the three team members, and some music tracks are locked behind a vague "Destined Battle #" label?
Even if there wasn't already a claimed leak of a Samurai Shodown DLC team, the DJ Station would seemingly hint at such as it includes Samurai Shodown songs.
I do wish the DJ Station had a bit more info about the songs themselves. You just get a title, not even an indication of which team they are associated with. Similar goes for my long term annoyance with character voice player modes, where everything is just "Voice ##". I understand it is probably too much work for a throwaway bonus feature, but it is annoying if you ever actually care to mess with the voice player to try to find anything more than a random grunt.
I still don't like the new Blue Mary voice.
As for Neo0r0chiaku's spoiler tagged bit, if you mean the Team Orochi ending, I took it to just mean that they are alive and staying around this time, instead of repeating their KOF97 suicidal rush. And that, despite not showing them within the game, they still have their Orochi powers.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that it is weird having a named tournament sponsor ("Anastasia") who doesn't even make an appearance in the story? At least not in the story that I've played through so far.
[this message was edited by Baines on Sat 19 Feb 23:16] |
| | "Re(1):KOF15 story presentation and thoughts" , posted Mon 21 Feb 04:05
quote:
EDIT: Forgot to mention that it is weird having a named tournament sponsor ("Anastasia") who doesn't even make an appearance in the story? At least not in the story that I've played through so far.
Oh, so Antonov isn't the host this time? I'd expect him to either do it by himself again or in a partnership with Chizuru's corporation.
I saw some videos on YouTube with bits and pieces of dialogues, and while the overall story is kinda messy, it's quite nice to see little (or big) details from past arcs being acknowledged in them. The dialogues involving Team Orochi members were particularly satisfying; it was never clear to me whether they were always Orochi followers consciously and willingly intending to bring him back in '97 or if they were normal young people who were suddenly taken over by the Orochi blood and forced to do the things they did (kinda like how the blood takes over Leona and Iori, but getting a new personality instead of becoming feral beasts); XV seems to indicate the former rather than the latter. Ash being forgotten by the whole world except those who were closest to him before he was erased from existence (and later brought back to it) was also a nice touch, as well as Krohnen retaining personality and design aspects from his time as K9999 (and a little of Nameless as well) while managing to avoid being too similar to Tetsuo this time. And having them all in the same game, it's like this is another KOF dream match - except this time it's completely canon!
One thing I disliked, however, is Yuri's design. Don't get me wrong, I love to see her braid back, but it looks like SNK just took her short-haired model from XIV and "pasted" the braid on the back of her head. Which is odd, because in SNK Heroines her braid in the default costume (you know, the one with the Tengu mask on the side of her head) actually looks much better than in XV, like she actually has long hair rather than short hair with an artificial (and cheap) braid extension.
I know, it's a silly complaint, but I can't help feeling annoyed at it.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(2):KOF15 story presentation and thoughts" , posted Mon 21 Feb 07:28
quote:
Oh, so Antonov isn't the host this time? I'd expect him to either do it by himself again or in a partnership with Chizuru's corporation.
The opening is the classic envelope, with a woman's voice-over reading of the invitation. Here, Anastasia says that she's hosting this tournament instead of Antonov. That's the first and last mention of Anastasia in the game that I've seen so far. Maybe she'll show up in someone's ending, or in the extra cutscenes of one of the few story-relevant teams, but I don't have high expectations.
The more I think about it, the more the KOF 15 story reminds me of KOF 13. I've long felt the KOF 13 story felt rushed or altered; you had this big build up with several boss-type characters, only for Saiki to betray the rest and then you fight an unfinished Mukai sprite and a palette swap of Ash...
Verse might have been a lousy boss design, but it is obvious that KOF 14 was trying to go somewhere. It gave us a new hero (Shun'ei) that was obviously connected to Verse. It had a big story idea of souls being captured by Verse, which led to a mass revival of deceased SNK foes. It had Nakoruru showing up with other reality hoppers. Ash came back from not existing. Kukri was doing stuff, even if the other new characters were largely wasted. It wasn't obvious where KOF was going, but it clearly had places to go.
KOF 15 seemed to start strong. Isla was an interesting design, while also acting as the more interesting Iori to Shun'ei's Kyo. Dolores added to the mystery of Kukri. The New Faces team returned in full, after Shermie showed up for SNK Heroines.
Then it just...fizzles out? I've already mentioned that having a new host doesn't seem to go anywhere. While not a bad thing in its own right, the mystery of the tournament turns out to not be a mystery at all; Heidern and Dolores wanted to bring out and then defeat Reverse in order to finish off the Verse story arc. Reverse is an improvement on Verse (an admittedly low bar to clear), but after building up Reverse as a danger, she's ends up being a quickly dispatched sub-boss. The real boss is the AFAIK never-before-mentioned goddess of truth Otoma=Raga that shows up seemingly without warning or explanation, only to herself be (not quite as easily) quickly dispatched by the player's team of choice.
It wasn't even until later that I realized Reverse was so disposable that she doesn't even appear in the Masami Obari animation. Reverse looks like Isla crossed with an anorexic Necalli. The boss figure shown at the beginning of the animation is Otoma=Raga.
Team Orochi simply showed up to compete in KOF again, and nothing is done with the other revived characters; I'm guessing that SNK is holding off for the next big story arc to deal with that. Which is honestly affecting my opinion of KOF 15 story, that it doesn't necessarily exist to tell a story in its own right, but rather exists to quickly close out a potentially no longer desired Verse arc.
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| | "Re(3):KOF15 story presentation and thoughts" , posted Mon 21 Feb 07:58
quote:
The more I think about it, the more the KOF 15 story reminds me of KOF 13. I've long felt the KOF 13 story felt rushed or altered; you had this big build up with several boss-type characters, only for Saiki to betray the rest and then you fight an unfinished Mukai sprite and a palette swap of Ash...
It's funny that you mentioned it, because I was thinking the exact same thing today. Yes, XIII's story felt very rushed.
This seems to be a problem often present in KOF's arcs. The Orochi arc feels perfect to me: maybe it's the rose-tinted glasses, but the story progression from game to game felt very well-paced, with '97 (the final part) actually feeling like the best part in terms of plot. Then, in the NESTS arc, '99 and 2000 had pretty good stories... but 2001 felt rushed, with many plot points (Krizalid's return, the true Zero appearing, Igniz's betrayal of the organization, Lin's master joining NESTS) barely getting any time for players to absorb the information. I remember that SNK had to clarify off-panel that Foxy actually survived after being (literally) backstabbed, since the game cutscenes never showed her after that.
And then we got Ash's arc, which was like the opposite of the Orochi arc: while the story got better from game to game in '94 to '97, in Ash's arc it got worse in my opinion, with 2003 being the most interesting (if a little confusing in some points), XI starting to present more members of Saiki's organization and failing to properly introduce them, and XIII basically dropping everything. So Mukai, the villain who gave considerable trouble to Kyo, Iori and Chizuru (you know, the same three people who defeated Orochi), swore to return after 2003? Have him appear in one scene to be unceremoniously killed off by Saiki. Oh, so this mysterious Botan lady is controlling Rugal's daughter like a puppet? Let's just forget about it. Shroom and Penelo? Who? And let's not forget Ash stealing Chizuru's and Iori's treasures, indicating he'd then go after Kyo's... and then just dropping this treasure hunt.
One good thing the present arc did so far is that it doesn't seem to be leaving too many questions to be answered in the following game(s), nor is it introducing characters teased as important and dropping them (sure, SNK did drop most of the XIV newcomers, but they were mostly treated as unimportant there, so it doesn't feel as a big loss in terms of story). Hopefully this time SNK will manage to finish this arc properly (whenever that happens).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(4):Kof 15 launch" , posted Wed 23 Feb 05:53
I'm glad that King of Dinosaurs is back and has some of the unique traits from his original outing, like normals with autoguard, his OTG chomp attack, his EX command grab having a fully armored run-up, etc.
His back+LP hitting opponents that are standing on the ground makes it actually more reliable as the command normal to use following close C/D since he takes a big step forward during it. It's kinda funny to me that his combo damage from close C/D is so enormous that his command grab is the secondary threat! In fact, his command grab really doesn't do that much damage...? Also his combos being fairly sensitive to the starting position relative to the corner seems like an interesting quirk for otherwise simple combos.
I have tried playing the game with a PS4 pad, and I've never been good at the many different short jumps in KOF but it feels particularly hard on the PS4 pad. It also feels like there's never quite enough buttons for macros! When you have a finger on each button on the joystick layout, there's no problem, but trying to hit the two buttons at the same time reliably on the face with my thumb is so unreliable for me that I have to rely on the macro buttons.
I was very surprised when KOF14 with how many new to KOF and entirely new characters there were, and it's a little unfortunate that so many of them are not here for the initial release. Some of them I could stand to never see again (Hein...), some of them are longshots to ever return (Xanadu...), but some of them were nice as part of SNK-dom (Love Heart, Muimui, Alice, etc.) and I thought that was lovely. I do hope that KOF at least continues to take more steps in celebrating more of SNK the way that KOF14 did, and the way the series originally did, even though SNK doesn't make much outside of KOF for the past X years.
After playing air dashing games with long looping complicated combos where each character is incredibly different in terms of combos, it's quite refreshing to have something as simple as close D f+A xx special as the norm!
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| PSN: Gojira_X
XBL: Gojiraaa
Wii: n/a
STM: 29347508
CFN: Gojira
| "Re(6):Kof 15 launch" , posted Thu 24 Feb 16:09
My thoughts on XV:
POSITIVE
+ The graphics are a better representation of SNK's style than XIV was. Still a bit behind the curve but they're getting there.
+ Isla is a fantastic character design. Everything about her is thematically well-conveyed through her fashion sense and moveset, she has a very unique silhouette, and beyond the tropey tsundere junk she's actually a pretty bright and fun-loving person. If I had any complaints the ring top was kind of unnecessary, but at the same time it's pretty easy to ignore since it's buried in several layers of loose clothing.
+ Ending artwork is consistent and solid, as always. They even took a few cheap shots at the feels. And the bonus endings are voiced, short as they are, which is a nice touch.
+ DJ Station is a great fit for SNK as a feature, so it's nice to see them finally doing this. And unlike other companies doing the same thing, the classic OST selection is all included for free.
+ I seriously have yet to play a character that isn't any fun to play in this game. It's been a long time since I was eager to play characters other than the ones that I normally gravitate to.
NEGATIVE
- Grapplers seem to be really weak. Moves push back further and yet command grabs have no range. Plus there's a bug where an empty jump into command grab will miss even if you're in range. Hoping a patch will address some of this.
- There's some kind of "input leniency" going on and I'm not sure if I like it. When I play on pad I'll occasionally get a move that I can't even understand, like a qcb move when I'm trying to walk forward and poke. On stick it happens much less.
- The other new character Dolores is kind of the opposite of what I said about Isla. People are still going to like her, but I think she's not very easy to make sense of at a glance.
- The bosses are really out of left field. No real buildup and even when you fight them they can't communicate with anyone so once again you get nothing out of the encounter. (I will say Reverse is gross cute though, like a feral cat.)
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| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
XBL: IAMDC1
Wii: n/a
STM: N/A
CFN: n/a
| "Re(9):Kof 15 launch" , posted Sat 26 Feb 16:11
quote:
My thoughts on XV:
+ DJ Station is a great fit for SNK as a feature, so it's nice to see them finally doing this. And unlike other companies doing the same thing, the classic OST selection is all included for free.
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!
I assume the DJ Station includes the original soundtracks as they sounded on the Neo Geo or arcade board. Any chance they included the Arranged Soundtracks?
Not yet, it's all original (OST), but we'll see what they do. They're already giving us so much I don't want to create any unfair expectations for whatever they might add to it.
Any favorite tracks so far?
Did SNK stated this game will the last of the saga?
SNK posted on Twitter the reason they switch over to unreal while naming a future unannounced title.
Still waiting for a team consisting of Gai Tendo, Syo Kirishima, and G Mantle.
I wonder if they will ever bring back the standing parry and meter charge. Maybe even some extra options where you can choose different types of gameplay like team battle with strikers, 3v3 tag, and KOF2k1 system (forgot the name).
Long Live I AM!
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| | "KOF 15 story, with some questions" , posted Mon 28 Feb 11:55
So the game does (barely) explain about Re Verse and Otoma=Raga, except it is in the Edit Team ending?! That's information the player really should have been given before facing them. It's a couple of lines that could have been thrown into a Heidern & Dolores cutscene, or mentioned in an intro, or anything.
And it still barely explains anything, and arguably doesn't quite mesh with the rest of the game.
It's an apocalypse (and rebirth) story. Re Verse shows up at the end of the world and collects souls. The emotions in the souls are used to open a gate to "another world". Otoma=Raga enters the world through that gate, destroys everything, and ushers in an "age of restoration".
Except Re Verse doesn't seem to collect anything? Verse collected souls, but those souls were seemingly freed with Verse's defeat. In the mid-story cutscene, Dolores mentions Re Verse being drawn by emotions, but doesn't mention souls being taken again.
If Re Verse is supposed to open the gate with the emotions of collected souls, then why is the gate instead opened with Re Verse's defeat? I'd guess the idea is that Re Verse's own strong emotions are enough to finish the process, but the game doesn't make it clear if that was what they were going for.
Why did a male Verse exist? Why was Verse seemingly so different from Re Verse? The mid-story cutscene says the legends were about Re Verse, not Verse. The Edit Team ending mentions the existence of a KOF multiverse and retro-causality (with Ash's erasure and return being treated as an example) may have triggered the arrival of this apocalypse, but was this just being used as a handwave explanation or was it meant to imply that maybe KOF14 Verse was pulled from some alternate reality (which in turn triggered Re Verse)? I'm guessing it was just the handwave, and that there is no explanation for Verse.
Why did Verse's defeat cause captured souls to be resurrected? Were they even resurrected? The only dead returnees we've seen are Orochi, Chris, and Shermie. Though if you allow for Verse's defeat to cause a person who was erased from the timeline to return, then some previously dead people now being alive again is hardly an issue. Which leads to...
Why did Verse's defeat cause Ash to be restored to the timeline? This may go back to that whole multiverse handwave, but that's still not really an explanation.
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Rare Customer | "Re(5):Re(10):Kof 15 launch" , posted Wed 2 Mar 16:15
quote:
I've always found "too old" to be a meme. Too busy to "lab" as the youngsters today call it, yes. Adult obligations take up that free time we had as youngsters (and I don't even have a family - yikes). However, I still enjoy fighting games and maintaining a group of like minded friends keeps the fun in the hobby.
This really hit it's head with SF4 for me. I simply did not enjoy any aspect of that entry; but I'd concedingly play it with my more fervent fan friends, but always try to nudge them toward BlazBlue (despite me being relative trash at it) or classic entries like SF2/SF3/SFA. SNK fighters were too far a stretch, and "3D fighters" (despite the popular titles having such generous tracking it invalidates movement) were off the table entirely.
Too old now hits when my recent rotator cuff injury begins to pain me after too many hours on the arcade stick. That's too old, but it's the body betraying the old fighter; not the fighting spirit. :b
Anyhow, I'm curious to see how Yamazaki fares in KoF15. I didn't care for his move set in 14, and well - it wasn't a particularly good year for Yamazaki in appearance either.
Come on man I've been trash all along but now I have a solid excuse, let me breathe.
14 Yamazaki could be very interesting with XV system, should have some decent mixups. Still a lot of scary ex moves have been a bit nerfed now that they're easily accessible so we'll see.
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| | "Re(8):Re(10):Kof 15 launch" , posted Fri 4 Mar 07:06
quote:
That’s a bit narrow minded and prescriptive about ways and reasons to play, isn’t it? What if they genuinely have no interest in most of the cast?
Not in my experience.
Back when we were playing in arcades, some times the only way to cultivate the local community was to migrate from the character you were good with (read: win matches regularly) and pick up a new character. Dominating the cabinet with new, or learning players was bad form - even in an era when we were paying money per play. I say this as someone who unwittingly "stepped in it" one afternoon, when I wasn't feeling particularly charitable - knocked some poor kid off the machine with my character, and ended up in a physical confrontation when he sent over his older brother.
In another instance, I completely broke a friend of fighting games with a particularly merciless evening of DOA2:HC matches.
If you're only interested in one character and winning, go play in tournaments. Stated realizing I've been guilty of this in the past.
Growing the community is about give and take.
Honestly, if there's only one character in a game I want to play; chances are that game isn't for me (see also, Tekken amongst other mitigating factors, namely not being a fan of the game design choices for movement and combat in the series early on).
I can see this point, if - like myself you reach a certain age, and the time available and the number of games you're interested in causes a constraint; then I fall back on "my main" when I play, but in those cases I'm not so proficient at those games that I'm beasting like I would have back in the SF2 / SamSho glory days of the early 90's. These days, I'm holding my own, or holding on for dear life (the suffering of a Tager main). That said, I still play several characters in the games I play most often. Unfortunately, in the cases I'm thinking of - these persons were only SF4 players, and couldn't be dragged into enjoying fighting games as a whole.
Ignoring community, there is also the argument that character knowledge is a good way to learn how to play against a character you're weak against. If you're great with Ken, but lose to Vega - playing Vega would give you insight into what moves work against Ken, and which moves don't.
Again, I come at this from a social / community angle. Having a side character is crucial for community building if you're interested in more people enjoying these games.
"We don't rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus
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| PSN: beatolover
XBL: Dead
Wii: Dead
STM: bugrom1067
CFN: rugalbgood
| "Re(9):Re(10):Kof 15 launch" , posted Fri 4 Mar 19:25:
quote:
Back when we were playing in arcades, some times the only way to cultivate the local community was to migrate from the character you were good with (read: win matches regularly) and pick up a new character. Dominating the cabinet with new, or learning players was bad form - even in an era when we were paying money per play. I say this as someone who unwittingly "stepped in it" one afternoon, when I wasn't feeling particularly charitable - knocked some poor kid off the machine with my character, and ended up in a physical confrontation when he sent over his older brother.
Besides the actual physical fighting part, what the hell arcade were you playing at?? That is the kindest, most gentle arcade I’ve ever heard of.
EDIT: To be fair, having sat and discussed arcades with an associate here, I must acknowledge that there was a lot of variety in venues; places like the golden dome were very different than others that I would visit, even if I personally would not think of those as "fighting game" arcades. So I acknowledge I was viewing this through my own bias; however, I do stand by the statement that serious venues were pretty rough. End edit statement.
Also, quit playing the “I’m an old man” card without having any idea of the age of the person you’re talking to, you come off as really condescending. I’m 42 and I can be condescending as well.
I REALLY am tempted to say some stuff here but I will continue to by as civil as I can.
As for My arcade experience, I learned how to play CE by repeatedly going to a place called Time Out and getting my ass handed to me by mall Kens until I STOPPED getting my ass handed to me by mall Kens.
Golden Dome was friendlier in a sense once you knew some people there, but nobody was going easy on anyone for any reason, even less so when money was involved.
As for “one character and winning”, realistically if you do care more about winning than just playing you’d be motivated to use multiple characters; in many older fighting games having one or several pocket characters is basically a necessity to deal with wonky match-ups.
Several of the more casual people I know and play with only use one character (QV, Guile.)
As for winning and losing, let’s be realistic here, nobody LIKES losing. Being able to handle it or not, or, if you’re trying to improve yourself, learning from it, is a big factor here.
quote:
Growing the community is about give and take.
There is a lot more to it than that.
Growing a community is about being supportive and if people have a drive to get better at a game supporting that as well.
Heaven knows I tried to get 09ers in to a bunch of old stuff and there was a total lack of interest, so I ended up mainly getting Coma in to Blazblue. If people want to play by house rules that’s fine, but it is unrealistic and unfair to expect others to share those beliefs and it is silly to condemn players for lack of interest in a variety of characters, even if they’re just playing casually.
From personal experience I have been playing Guilty Gear since X, and for a period competitively (a few people I play with here regularly know my old nick) but I legit have zero interest in the cast both gameplay and design wise outside of Potemkin.
If you’re a beast at Super Turbo or CE (or samurai spirits as you’ve now mentioned) play on fightcade sometime. Lagfests
Are free and easy, and for somebody who seems to be big on community growth I can’t help but notice a lack of participation in a situation where someone is actively trying to get people on here to pop on, play, and have a chat (or not, some people are uncomfortable on mic… and that’s okay!)
[this message was edited by Red Falcon on Sat 5 Mar 00:18] |
| PSN: Gojira_X
XBL: Gojiraaa
Wii: n/a
STM: 29347508
CFN: Gojira
| "Re(5):Feel the profundity of tiny gloves" , posted Thu 10 Mar 10:41
quote:
I did hear that you can use that rewind feature to see different card rewards after winning a match, though.
Oh no, this information is going to make it harder for me to stop now that I can scam my way to a full deck even faster.
Also I just discovered that this collection has not two, but FOUR versions of the game. If you reset the emulator with Y it changes the language to Japanese like any NGPC game. Except the thing with CFC is it was so text-heavy that instead of a language switch the Japanese and English versions of the games were on different ROMs. Meaning both the EN and JP versions of both games are included, each with their own separate savegames. Pretty wild.
And as long as I'm here, the KoFXV Elisabeth trailer is out today.
Nice to see she stopped buying shirts with holes in them, but seems she couldn't find the right size gloves. Being noble is hard.
I been enjoying this game every minute of the way. But as i got to the Neo Geo world semi finals, these guys are over powerful. I have like 1 character card with 1000mp. They have multiple if not many. Not sure how else to get stronger cards but if I have to keep rebattling older opponents i think that will turn my off to progress further.
Unless, anyone have tips but i really want to keep playing more.
I have a pretty specific strategy against high BP cards, called the "Rope a Dope". Basically if I see my opponent toss a 1000BP or higher in the ring, I will throw in a card with slightly less BP, block the character, and then leave it alone no matter what it does.
900BP is optimal against 1000BP, but that doesn't mean you need to have a card with 900BP. You can have a 600BP with a backup, or use an action card to damage, or whatever. The point is that if you can reduce a fighter's BP to 100 and then don't attack or defend it, they're stuck with it. They have to find a way to get it out of the ring themselves. If they can't do that and end up with a ring of three low BP characters, they're effectively crippled. They can't do damage or build SP. You can then just build up your own BP and SP until you can make a big triple-team attack, and because they only have weak cards to block with you'll do as much damage as possible.
That said, CFC is about building a deck and you will have to fight previous opponents to get stronger cards at some point. But semifinals is doable with the above strategy in mind.
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| | "New (old) team coming next" , posted Tue 21 Jun 22:30
As many people already expected, the next DLC team is the "Awakened Orochi Team".
The interesting thing is that, this time, they're wearing different clothes (similar to Goenitz's, but red/pink instead of blue), instead of being just color swaps of the original characters. Maybe (and hopefully) they'll have a different story, too (then again, Omega Rugal got no story at all, so maybe the same will happen to them since they're alternate versions of characters already in the game).
...Just out of curiosity, do you guys prefer these three in their normal versions or in their "awakened" versions? I remember back in the late 1990s I loved Orochi Shermie and Orochi Chris, but actually preferred playing as "vanilla" Yashiro than as Orochi Yashiro, for example.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: zonepharaoh
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: zonepharaoh
| "Re(4):New (old) scam coming next" , posted Thu 23 Jun 13:07
quote:
If there's one thing that's consistent about SNK, it's poorly thought out licensing deals. The latest bit of fun is Crypto of Fighters.
As someone who's only had a peripheral relationship with SNK games through Metal Slug, some minimal Samurai Spirits, and belatedly with Garou Densetsu Special via Rugal a few months ago, it's always been kind of fascinating to watch SNK from afar the way you would a friend who can be brilliant and creative but never quite has it together, failed to apply himself, and is always claiming to be just one loan or favor away from finally hitting the bigtime, just give him one more chance. Sometimes it's hilarious cockamamie business plan selling widgets that will obviously fall apart, like when Aruze bought them and instantly sent them up a creek, and sometimes it takes a darker turn when they get mixed up with loan sharks or criminals, like its current ownership. And sometimes it's him inviting you to invest in his ponzi scheme, or in this case, cryptocurrency. As with the metaphor, the main hope is that SNK doesn't end up totally strung-out, dead, or in debtor's prison by age 50.
人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は．．．
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| | "Re(1):Rhythmic remixes and SNK misspellings" , posted Sun 14 Aug 22:46
quote:
If SNK is going to charge money for glorified EX characters, I'm glad that they are at least getting new outfits. I'll be curious to see how different this version of the Orochi characters are from the keytar playing regular versions.
One interesting thing about Team Awakened Orochi is that they have their own story and ending. Maybe I'm wrong, but in '97 they had the same ending regardless of whether the player used their regular or Orochi versions, didn't they?
Also, the special interactions when there's a battle between two versions of the same character (e.g. Regular Yashiro vs. Orochi Yashiro) are very interesting, as if the battle is happening inside their minds with both versions fighting to decide which of them is taking control of the body - which answers a question I had for a long time, whether they had the same consciousness in the two forms or whether the Orochi versions were some sort of "split personality". Then again, these interactions also show that, while the Orochi versions are indeed split personalities, both the regular and Orochi versions of the trio are on the same page and their inner fights are just a friendly match to decide which personality is more fit to carry on their plans.
As for SNK's future plans for XV, it's great to know that Shingo and Kim will be added (I never got why Shingo was removed from XIII and XIV despite being a regular part of the roster since '97). I hope that Mature and Vice will also be added and that they'll complete a team with Omega Rugal.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Will there ever be a new SNK/Capcom game?" , posted Wed 7 Sep 07:35
Apparently, both parties are interested. But with SFVI already announced and SNK still not over KoF XV (and already with plans for a new Garou), yeah, it's not happening anytime soon.
But if a CvS3 or SvC3 (counting MotM as SvC1 and Chaos as SvC2) ever gets released, all I ask is that it allows players to choose to have either 1-on-1 SF-like battles, 3-on-3 KoF-like battles, or 2-on-2 MvC-like tag battles, just like in NGPC's SvC:MotM. In fact, it's a shame that a portable game was the only time these companies bothered to provide the option to choose one of these different kinds of battles.
As for the roster, both companies usually focus mostly on characters from SF and KoF - and I guess it's for the best... I mean, when SNK tried to go wild and add Mars People, Red Arremer and Zero, it just felt too weird and out of place to me.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(1):Will there ever be a new SNK/Capcom gam" , posted Wed 7 Sep 17:40
quote:
Apparently, both parties are interested. But with SFVI already announced and SNK still not over KoF XV (and already with plans for a new Garou), yeah, it's not happening anytime soon.
But if a CvS3 or SvC3 (counting MotM as SvC1 and Chaos as SvC2) ever gets released, all I ask is that it allows players to choose to have either 1-on-1 SF-like battles, 3-on-3 KoF-like battles, or 2-on-2 MvC-like tag battles, just like in NGPC's SvC:MotM. In fact, it's a shame that a portable game was the only time these companies bothered to provide the option to choose one of these different kinds of battles.
As for the roster, both companies usually focus mostly on characters from SF and KoF - and I guess it's for the best... I mean, when SNK tried to go wild and add Mars People, Red Arremer and Zero, it just felt too weird and out of place to me.
I think at least a re-release of CvS2 is very likely, hopefuly in a compilation with SvC and CvS1. Ideally if they could add the backgrounds of CvS1 into CvS2, I'd be in heaven, I liked those much more than the CvS2 ones.
There is a rumor that some of the DLC for KOF15 would be a Street Fighter team (after all, some Street Fighters characters have already appeared in the KOF gacha) so who knows. At least there is more hope than a few years ago.
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| | "Re(2):Will there ever be a new SNK/Capcom gam" , posted Wed 7 Sep 23:28
quote:
I think at least a re-release of CvS2 is very likely, hopefuly in a compilation with SvC and CvS1. Ideally if they could add the backgrounds of CvS1 into CvS2, I'd be in heaven, I liked those much more than the CvS2 ones.
There is a rumor that some of the DLC for KOF15 would be a Street Fighter team (after all, some Street Fighters characters have already appeared in the KOF gacha) so who knows. At least there is more hope than a few years ago.
Are these companies even able to include more content in these old games? If so, I fully support the idea of adding the CvS1 backgrounds (and music) into CvS2 (while still keeping the backgrounds and music that CvS2 already has).
In fact, if they're able to change these games, there are plenty of changes I'd request for SvC (I assume the SvC you're mentioning is Chaos, not MotM, right?). For starters, the replacement of the boring backgrounds with new, ANIMATED backgrounds (they can even recycle some KoF backgrounds for this purpose; that'd still be better than the boring, completely lifeless SvC backgrounds), a new, more original gameplay system (SvC's is extremely generic) - and, if possible, the inclusion of NGBC's tag team mode (what's the point of a crossover where you can only have 1-on-1 matches like an early-1990s fighting game?).
That reminds me, I remember discussing MotM, CvS1 and CvS2 in the "Classic Fighting Games" thread, but I don't recall if we ever discussed SvC:Chaos in that thread. There are some things I love in that game (the dialogues, some unexpected choices, the sprites for most of the Capcom characters)... and many things that I hate in it. Fortunately it was followed by the much better Neo Geo Battle Coliseum (which wasn't a SNK/Capcom crossover, but felt like a sequel and a vast improvement).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(3):Will there ever be a new SNK/Capcom gam" , posted Thu 8 Sep 11:11
quote:
Are these companies even able to include more content in these old games? If so, I fully support the idea of adding the CvS1 backgrounds (and music) into CvS2 (while still keeping the backgrounds and music that CvS2 already has).
When outsourced, it depends on the contracts. Within the company (Capcom or SNK), I guess it depends on whether they can or want to spend the resources on it.
When King of Fighters 98 Ultimate Match Final Edition was first ported to Steam, people were annoyed that features present in other versions of KOF98 were absent here, such as options for the arranged soundtrack and 3D backgrounds. Someone involved with the project stated that they had been contracted to use the XBLA version of KOF98UM as their code base (and implementing the balance changes made in FE), and were not permitted to include such extra features.
In the earlier days of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix's development, I want to recall David Sirlin saying that they were only contracted to do the graphics overhaul, so they couldn't do stuff like balance changes. Of course the details of the project kept changing throughout its troubled development, and by the end it did include a rebalanced gameplay mode.
These days, I'm not entirely sure SNK could afford the extra expenses of adding features, while Capcom is more likely to see it as simply not being worth the effort. You'd have to pay staff to plan the changes, implement the changes, test the changes, fix any issues with the implementation, potentially create post-release update patches, and you might still end up with negative PR if you didn't do things quite the way fans wanted.
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Platinum Carpet V.I.P - IGGY ARI !  | "Re(3):Will there ever be a new SNK/Capcom gam" , posted Thu 8 Sep 21:00
Yeah, you're right, it's probably not going to happen. Even balance changes, since the game is so old and has so much history that any change will be met with fury by the old guard, who are the main target of the game. Didn't they remove rolling cancel from a revision, and no one played that one because even though it's a bug and it makes the game worse, the meta stabilized around it?
quote:
that'd still be better than the boring, completely lifeless SvC backgrounds
I actually really like the strange, sad, post-apocalyptic atmosphere of SvC! It's very distinctive, and maybe reflect a certain mood within SNK at that time (it was just before the death of the Neo Geo and a bankrupcy, so the sadness seems appropriate).
I like a lot of things about the game... except... well... playing it.
And since you mention Neo Geo Battle Colloseum: I liked that game much more! Again, I loved the casting, the new sprites were pretty, and I feel like there was some potential in there? I don't think the game was very good unfortunately, but there definitely is a window for improvement here. Something similar to what Jojo ASBR got. Not to mention that it's much easier to add characters to this one since you don't need to negociate with Capcom.
Since SNK is currently busy spreading the KOF universe to Samurai Spirits and other series, there's little chance they'd touch up NGBC, but if only they could make the game as is available on current platforms, it would be nice!
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| PSN: ShikyohMukuro
XBL: IAMDC1
Wii: n/a
STM: N/A
CFN: n/a
| "Re(3):Will there ever be a new SNK/Capcom gam" , posted Fri 9 Sep 00:21
quote:
I think at least a re-release of CvS2 is very likely, hopefuly in a compilation with SvC and CvS1. Ideally if they could add the backgrounds of CvS1 into CvS2, I'd be in heaven, I liked those much more than the CvS2 ones.
There is a rumor that some of the DLC for KOF15 would be a Street Fighter team (after all, some Street Fighters characters have already appeared in the KOF gacha) so who knows. At least there is more hope than a few years ago.
Are these companies even able to include more content in these old games? If so, I fully support the idea of adding the CvS1 backgrounds (and music) into CvS2 (while still keeping the backgrounds and music that CvS2 already has).
In fact, if they're able to change these games, there are plenty of changes I'd request for SvC (I assume the SvC you're mentioning is Chaos, not MotM, right?). For starters, the replacement of the boring backgrounds with new, ANIMATED backgrounds (they can even recycle some KoF backgrounds for this purpose; that'd still be better than the boring, completely lifeless SvC backgrounds), a new, more original gameplay system (SvC's is extremely generic) - and, if possible, the inclusion of NGBC's tag team mode (what's the point of a crossover where you can only have 1-on-1 matches like an early-1990s fighting game?).
That reminds me, I remember discussing MotM, CvS1 and CvS2 in the "Classic Fighting Games" thread, but I don't recall if we ever discussed SvC:Chaos in that thread. There are so
-- Message too long, Autoquote has been Snipped --
All great points on this discussion and ideas i love myself. Choosing a type of team mode/style was an idea I brought up on one of the threads. Maybe have options like,
3 person tag team
2 person tag team with assist character
3 person team battle
2 person team battle with striker
Solo
2 person simultaneous (dramatic battle style).
Imagine in versus mode, each person can choose either or? That would be wild. But this is wishful thinking.
I also agree on releasing the previous crossover games. There was a NeoGeo Rom of SvC Chaos Plus lurking and rumored to be a perfect version but i don't think that's true? In any case, like with Samurai Showdown 5 perfect being released from the cage, it's possible SvC Chaos may also have a perfect edition that we may not know about.
I posted a video a while back on the old fighting game thread on all the dialogues from SvC Chaos located in YouTube. It's amazing and nostalgic. Be sure to change the speed to slow because they talk extremely fast.
As for future SNK vs Capcom collaboration, I would like to see some franchises within the two have some crossover games themselves. Metal Slug vs MegaMan or Savage Reign vs Power Stone or Final Fight x Sengoku. For fun at least not a major release.
If SNK can release some simple 2D release of games like Last Blade, World Heroes, etc, can be the basis of creating another NGBC type game before the big release of a new SvC or CvS crossover. Create a huge build up to something great.
Long Live I AM!
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| | "Re(1):A (not so surprising) surprise for KOF " , posted Wed 28 Sep 19:34
I still have the same issue for Haomaru (and Darli, and Hibiki as well) in this game as I had in CvS2: in a primarily fist-and-magic-powers-fighting tournament, I find it hard to reconcile with the fact that a somewhat honorable character sees fair to use his huge katana to have a "fair fight" with someone bare-handed.
I know it's really just a matter of hit boxes and a big katana in the face will likely deal less damage than Ralf's gigaton punch, but it kind of grates me.
Also, it's somewhat murky, because I don't have issues with Billy using his big nunchastick, Whip using her weapons, or treachorous characters using weapons such as Yamazaki or Rolento, and even somehow Nakoruru I'm OK with her because it's a small dagger and there's a lot of light effects that make it look more like Athena's powers, and Mamahaha is fairly ineffective as far as falcons attacking human eyes go.
More flashy crossovers, like MvC or NGBC don't annoy me as much because anything goes in those situations.
But, yeah, Haomaru vs Ryo in a serious 1-on-1 fight is where I draw the line.
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| | "Re(2):A (not so surprising) surprise for KOF" , posted Thu 29 Sep 05:07
quote:
I still have the same issue for Haomaru (and Darli, and Hibiki as well) in this game as I had in CvS2: in a primarily fist-and-magic-powers-fighting tournament, I find it hard to reconcile with the fact that a somewhat honorable character sees fair to use his huge katana to have a "fair fight" with someone bare-handed.
I know it's really just a matter of hit boxes and a big katana in the face will likely deal less damage than Ralf's gigaton punch, but it kind of grates me.
Also, it's somewhat murky, because I don't have issues with Billy using his big nunchastick, Whip using her weapons, or treachorous characters using weapons such as Yamazaki or Rolento, and even somehow Nakoruru I'm OK with her because it's a small dagger and there's a lot of light effects that make it look more like Athena's powers, and Mamahaha is fairly ineffective as far as falcons attacking human eyes go.
More flashy crossovers, like MvC or NGBC don't annoy me as much because anything goes in those situations.
But, yeah, Haomaru vs Ryo in a serious 1-on-1 fight is where I draw the line.
I think part of why I find it more "ok" with characters like Billy and Whip is that Billy is meant to be a villainous goon and Whip comes across as a physically weaker person who relies on a weapon compared to the other super martial artists, so it feels "just" somehow. Even Chang, who is a big huge dude with a big huge weapon, it somehow feels ok with because he's a big dumb goon.
Haohmaru having the image of a capable, powerful martial artist even if he wasn't carrying a sword makes him feel bizarrely weak when around a bunch of people without it. It's just kinda incongruous?
I know there's the classic "just block Wolverine's claws with your arms lol", but yeah when everyone is a superhero it isn't such a big deal.
I eventually just got used to seeing it in CvS2, but it also came with another funny thing: in order to make Haohmaru balanced in that game, most of his sword attacks would just deal a "slightly above average" amount of damage to go with how they have almost no comboing power! It made Haohmaru this character who is mostly chipping away at you with LP and MP for not much damage!
I really like how Darli uses a variety of tools which break after she uses them, which explains why she immediately goes back to her regular sawblade.
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| | "Re(3):A (not so surprising) surprise for KOF" , posted Thu 29 Sep 20:31
quote:
I think part of why I find it more "ok" with characters like Billy and Whip is that Billy is meant to be a villainous goon and Whip comes across as a physically weaker person who relies on a weapon compared to the other super martial artists, so it feels "just" somehow. Even Chang, who is a big huge dude with a big huge weapon, it somehow feels ok with because he's a big dumb goon.
Haohmaru having the image of a capable, powerful martial artist even if he wasn't carrying a sword makes him feel bizarrely weak when around a bunch of people without it. It's just kinda incongruous?
True! I never really liked Haomaru so I didn't think of it, but yeah, he becomes a self-rightous asshole who talks big but has to use a fucking katana to be on par with Terry or Joe. They could have reworked him in CvS2 to not use his sword and show what he can do in a bare-fist combat, but the issue was that he's just too much of a shoto to make it interesting. In the end, he was just miscast (Hibiki too, but then you just have to think Hibiki is the serial killer version so it's OK in the end. Still, Akari would have been a much better pick).
I keep being reminded on how in CvS1 they had the idea of making the non-SF character Gallon in human form, but time/budget constraints kicked in and we ended up with Morrigan (who was boring on top of looking ugly).
Nakoruru is as you say: she's a little girl in the end, so it's OK for her to use a knife to battle with trained martial art adults (same with Rimururu possibly). It also allows her to not fall in the same pitfalls as other cutesey female characters who are bad are fighting because they're so cute so their animations are intentionally bad (like Alice was in KOF14). God I hate this stereotype, good thing Capcom avoided that in SF so far.
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| | "Re(4):A (not so surprising) surprise for KOF" , posted Thu 29 Sep 21:52
quote:
I keep being reminded on how in CvS1 they had the idea of making the non-SF character Gallon in human form, but time/budget constraints kicked in and we ended up with Morrigan (who was boring on top of looking ugly).
Wait, Gallon was going to be in CvS1? That's news to me.
Wow, talbaineric would have certainly loved it (especially considering that Cammy was already in CvS1, so he'd get both of his favorite characters in it)... and so would I! And I don't think they'd even need to change Gallon to a human form; it's not as if a werewolf would look out of place next to Blanka and Dhalsim - all they'd have to do would be to either remove the moves where he bisects the opponent or change the effect of these moves to, well, not bisect the opponent.
I suppose the only problem with his inclusion is that, as Morrigan showed, the DarkStalkers sprites were already looking too old next to the SFA3 sprites (and even worse next to the sprites made especially for CvS1). And also the fact that, while Gallon would fit better with a roster of martial artists than Morrigan did, Morrigan's choice makes sense from a commercial perspective as she was DarkStalkers's poster girl and a good contrast with fellow secret character Nakoruru (with Nakoruru looking cute and innocent and associated with light, while Morrigan looks seductive, cynical and associated with darkness, despite not being evil).
(that reminds me, I still don't get why Capcom didn't give Morrigan new sprites in CvS2 when they did so for Chun-Li in that same game... but that's another discussion that would deviate this topic's subject even further)
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| "Re(6):A (not so surprising) surprise for KOF" , posted Fri 30 Sep 22:43
My feelings concerning weapons in a bare knuckle brawler like KoF or SF is inconsistent. I think it comes down to whether or not the weapon is permanently baked into the character. For example, Whip is a character who I can't imagine functioning without her whip. (Plus, her entire personality is built around her whip to the extent that she's named Whip. She whips.) But the SS characters are from a game where their weapons are vital but not mandatory. The fact that the characters can be disarmed has been with the SS games since day 1. So having characters who are bringing optional weapons to a fist fight feels a bit off.
That said, I really didn't mind Haohmaru in CvS2 because, as Spoon aptly noted, he spent most of his time doing minor pokes. While his katana always gave him the threat of that big hit it felt like his sword had both advantages and disadvantages, as opposed to simply cheating.
Speaking of weapons, when Balrog/Vega/Claw shows up again, would it be too much to ask to have him updated in a way that works? Billy gets his magic stick and Rolento gets infinite grenades, but Claw still loses his claw when the opponent looks at him funny. Maybe Claw should cross over with Senran Kagura, since his main gimmick is that you can punch his clothes off.
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| | "Re(6):A (somewhat surprising) surprise for KO" , posted Thu 12 Jan 04:37
quote:
My favourite thing about this update is that they brought back the important "guess the silhouette" aspect for the other two characters. Finally some good old-school mechanic!
It feels like SNK isn't cheating with the silhouettes either. I want to recall that Capcom went as far as editing at least one silhouette from its source art, on top of picking hard to recognize poses, giving some returning characters radically different designs, and just doing who knows what for the designs of new-to-SFV characters.
The first silhouette made me think of Duo Lon as well, but for some reason that just doesn't feel right. Most Duo Long art tends to show off his super long braid, which doesn't appear to be present here. To be fair, not all Duo Lon art does so, or SNK might have edited out of the image. But something about the silhouette makes me think it is someone else that I should be able to immediately recognize, but don't.
The second silhouette has the same effect on me... It looks like someone I feel I should be able to recognize, but when I try to match it to any name, the attempt just seems off.
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| | "SNK new general trailer" , posted Sat 1 Apr 23:02
SNK has posted a new general news trailer, mostly confirming stuff that's been known for a while, but perhaps little bits are new.
King of Fighter XV:
Kim Kaphwan releases April 4, we've already seen his full trailer
Sylvie Paula Paula releases summer, now we get her 3D model and confirmation that mio remains her VA
Goenitz is a free update in summer, looks like he's taking the Rugal boss fight path
Najd releases in summer, still just a single drawing, no 3D model or even new concept art
Crossplay open beta test in Spring
Samurai Shodown:
Still promising Rollback Netcode, in Spring
KOF XIII Global Match:
rollback netcode overhaul?
PS4 and Switch releases
PS4 gets a beta test in Early Summer
New game:
An untitled Fatal Fury/Garou game is still in the works, only a promo artwork of Terry, Andy, and Joe
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| | "Re(3):SNK new general trailer" , posted Fri 7 Apr 08:29
quote:
It's good to see that Andy has a dapper new look, since the unreleased sequel sprites had him with just his Real Bout Special outfit. Injured crutches Joe was an interesting turn, but it makes more sense to have him be healthy so we can have the trio back together and have the dichotomy of past and future.
Now the real question will be if Mai will be allowed to join the fight, since Mary was already revealed in Memories of Stray Wolves. Having her relegated to babysitter/Andy's cheerleader would be disappointing.
Isn't Mai SNK's most popular female character? I don't see why she wouldn't be allowed to return.
Sure, there's a time skip in MotW, so SNK could be concerned about showing an older Mai (even though we'd seen women get older in other fighting games, like Sonya in MKX-11 and Chun-Li in the upcoming SF6), but Terry doesn't really look much older (nor do Andy and Joe in this new art), so I guess Mai wouldn't look much different physically, anyway.
I'd like to see an AoF fighter appearing in it, as well. Maybe Ryo as the new Mr. Karate, or maybe Yuri... as the new Mr. (...Ms.?) Karate.
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| | "Re(5):SNK new general trailer" , posted Sat 8 Apr 02:35:
quote:
Isn't Mai SNK's most popular female character? I don't see why she wouldn't be allowed to return.
You could ask the same question of MOTW. Mai was popular then as well, yet she didn't make the roster.
Mai also missed KOF XI, apparently only getting added as a hidden character for the PS2 port?
Good point. Them again, MotW was pretty much SNK following Capcom’s steps with SFIII and thinking that dropping almost the entire roster from previous games was a good idea - and while both SFIII and MotW are nowadays regarded as masterpieces, both were also big commercial failures for both companies.
As for KOF XI, SNK also took several questionable choices for that game’s roster, dropping lots of mainstays (not only Mai, but also Joe, Robert, Leona…). It’s no surprise that all of them were brought back in XII-XIII.
Considering how both KOF XV and Samurai Shodown 2019 put more emphasis on bringing as many popular characters as they could instead of focusing on newcomers or dark horses, I suspect Mai’s inclusion in the next Garou game should be pretty much certain.
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[this message was edited by Just a Person on Sat 8 Apr 02:37] |
| | "Sylvie Paula Paula trailer" , posted Tue 9 May 12:14
The trailer for Sylvie Paula Paula is out, with the character releasing on May 16.
She looks good, at least by KOFXV standards. Looks like she has the expected interactions, having character-specific dialogues with Antonov, Kukri, and Angel. Even though Mian isn't in the game, she does at least mention her.
It looks like Sylvie has a new Climax super, again temporarily "rebooting" into a more serious personality, but longer this time. She dashes across the screen, does a Maximum Spider (yeah, I don't know what the modern fighting game community bothers to call that kind of super), and finishes with a giant electricity beam.
Though really this trailer just makes me want a 1v1 KOF character game even more... I like Sylvie Paula Paula, and already bought her with the season pass, but I have pretty much zero interest in actually playing the game. I haven't played it since October, and that was probably for a few hours tops. I've increasingly come to feel the 3v3 format (and the team format in general) is a detriment for the actual characters within the game.
And KOF gameplay just isn't "fun" anymore for me, and hasn't been for a very long time. You either barely get any time with any character, or you dominate so much that you *only* get time with one character. Same goes for your opponent. Combos, for me, are out of control because the 3v3 format means even 100% combos only take out "1/3rd" of your total "life". And because of everything, many characters don't even feel "complete". They don't feel like they'd be capable of standing alone in a 1v1 game; the 3v3 format and the combo/super/damage systems are used to skip ever doing the work that would have been necessary to let them stand alone.
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| | "Re(2):Sylvie Paula Paula trailer" , posted Thu 11 May 20:42
quote:
I've increasingly come to feel the 3v3 format (and the team format in general) is a detriment for the actual characters within the game.
Unfortunately, the team format is too ingrained into KOF's identity to ever be fully excluded. The best compromise would be to adopt the Capcom Fighting Jam model (this game specifically because of the two character teams, Rival Schools/JG does three) and maybe provide incentives for swapping/sticking with characters between rounds.
I hope Garou 2 is successful enough to bring things back to the 1v1 cycle, especially with the looming success of SF6 on the horizon. If it does well, it might inspire KOF to tighten its match structure, or even reboot KOF entirely by introducing Kyo into the storyline proper.
That's a good suggestion. But at this point, the 3v3 format is pretty much a part of KOF's identity, so I suspect the next games will keep it.
As for Garou 2 (or however it will be titled), I guess it will be quite successful. It will be nice to see SNK going back to its roots, and I'm curious to find out if it will still be considered as a different timeline from KOF's or if SNK will somehow make both franchises take place in the same timeline from now on.
(and with the return of SNK's main 1v1 fighting game and the continuation of the 3v3 one, all that is missing is a 2v2 tag title... maybe - just maybe - SNK Heroines could fill this spot, if only SNK can turn it into a proper fighting game and tone down the fanservice just a little - for instance, it could still have fanservice costumes as unlockables, and the plot could be an actual fighting tournament/beauty contest where the women are willing to participate instead of them being abducted by a pervert)
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| | "Re(4):Sylvie Paula Paula trailer" , posted Sun 14 May 09:16
quote:
I've always felt that the success of KoF was an overall detriment to SNK's fighters. The team concept is interesting, but when it became the only game in town it hurt the individuality of the characters. Maybe KoF could do something insane like go back to locked teams in order to emphasize the unique aspects of each character?
As for Garou 2, I'm only half convinced the game is ever going to come out.
KOF made sense in the heyday of fighting games, when Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting were doing some of the heavy lifting for character design and development. As the market collapsed towards only KOF, SNK never really adapted to make up for what KOF lost in the process. Indeed, they arguably just went harder on making KOF KOF.
I don't think locked teams are the answer, as that will just annoy players who don't like the team set-ups.
While it might be divisive, and some would say it is just a waste of time and resources, my personal solution would be to put more focus on 1v1 play. 3v3 play can remain the default, but include a 1v1 option that isn't just a tacked on console port extra. Design characters with 1v1 play in mind in addition to team play, that alone would help the characters feel more complete. Mechanically, the 1v1 can just be the 3v3 mode but all three character slots are the same character. This would be cheap and easy to do, would still function as a focused training mode for people who prefer 3v3, and you could offer a 1v1 arcade/story mode that is just the regular 3v3 arcade/story mode played with only one character of each team.
From there, you then take a page out of Capcom's SFV book, and offer a separate super low budget 1v1 "story" mode for each individual character. Don't spring for new voice acting, just use text. Use these to tell stories about characters outside of the regular KOF tournament matches. They could be showing events leading up to the tournament (like how a team was formed), or events happening concurrent to the tournament (such as characters like Blue Mary investigating behind the scenes), or just completely separate events (like a day in the life of Yuri). Make it something like six matches, with character-specific bosses, and you get a simple ending.
An alternative which doesn't split the game into 3v3 and 1v1 modes would be to instead go the Skullgirls route, allowing players to choose whether they want 1, 2, or 3 character teams. While some would cry that this is heretical to the idea of KOF being a team-based tournament, it does have a fair amount of precedent, as KOF often uses a 1 or 2 character format for minibosses and bosses. This would just allow players to play under the same "rules".
This could be implemented a few different ways, though any approach would introduce balance concerns.
The laziest approach would just be to let players pick the same character multiple times, and the game plays entirely like normal. You want a two-person team of Kyo and Iori, then you pick one of those characters once and the other twice. This is an even freer form of the 1v1 mode I'd mentioned earlier.
The standard approach would be to give across the board buffs to 1 and 2 character teams. Like getting 150% life bars for each character in a 2-character team and a 300% bar for 1 character teams. (It would need to be more than just a life/defense boost though.) The biggest issue with this approach is the structure of KOF's combo gameplay. Being able to play a single super-buffed Iori isn't going to matter when you now only need to make a single mistake (instead of three) to lose the entire match to a corner infinite or full life combo.
Potentially the most interesting, but also confusing and not necessarily interesting enough to justify itself, would be to use this system to further emulate boss fight structures. If you buff only the final character slot, then a 2-character team would see the first character play identical to how they would in a 3-character team, but the second character receives a significant buff (akin to the 2nd form of boss fights). Maybe if SNK went this route, they'd also learn to better design their actual boss fights...
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| | "How much of a detriment are KOF teams?" , posted Sun 14 May 23:39
quote:
KOF2001 had this system, you select a team of 4 characters and could then choose how many of them set as fighters / strikers.
That was tied to the striker system that all around made matters worse.
Bloating the game to a 4v4 format made it even more likely for faces to be lost not just in the crowd, but even within the teams. Team identity and purpose itself became muddled, as SNK's team design went from deciding who absolutely needed to be in the 3-character team to trying to figure out which extra characters to stick into the new 4-character teams. ("Guest" strikers made this character bloat even worse.)
Giving characters two completely separate functions (playable versus striker) further muddied character design, purpose, and balance. KOF was already a series of character haves and have nots; now characters were not only competing against each other but also their own non-playable support form.
While strikers allowed for fancier and flashier combos, to me KOF's combo system already had a negative impact on the game and character designs, so indulging even more just made that area worse. Even if you could argue that technically those "support" characters were even more functional than if they'd been played regularly (which itself should highlight a design problem), and that players *could* focus on spending more time directly playing fewer characters (which still tended to be the same characters as always, because most of the roster arguably was never given enough design effort to be viable in that role.)
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| "Re(1):How much of a detriment are KOF teams?" , posted Mon 15 May 07:20
quote:
KOF team format
I think y'all do have a point about the team format possibly hampering the series' broader appeal, as it does force players to learn 3 characters instead of 1. A ratio system like CVS2 might work, but tbh the anchor character in KOF always felt like a higher ratio member than the first and second since they have 5 meters to work with (especially lately when losing a round gives the subsequent characters 1 free stock). Anchors can dish out more damage, and they also have more defensive options to protect themselves. So for a ratio system to work, the 3-person team would have to be powered down a little, and it would take away from the classic KOF feel.
They can just make a throw-away 1-person team option that has some nominal benefits but just doesn't come up at all in high-level play, or they could perhaps take the Capcom SF6 approach with Modern controls, and make the simpler-to-learn 1-character option potentially strong at high-level. It might even make the game a little varied if certain characters benefit more from being in teams vs being alone, similar to how people are realizing that SF6's Modern controls are very potent for some characters (like Luke) that benefit from easier motions even at the cost of access to some moves, while others (like Ryu) lose too much for the easier input advantage to be worth it.
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| | "Re(2):How much of a detriment are KOF teams?" , posted Tue 23 May 01:27
quote:
KOF team format I think y'all do have a point about the team format possibly hampering the series' broader appeal, as it does force players to learn 3 characters instead of 1. A ratio system like CVS2 might work, but tbh the anchor character in KOF always felt like a higher ratio member than the first and second since they have 5 meters to work with (especially lately when losing a round gives the subsequent characters 1 free stock). Anchors can dish out more damage, and they also have more defensive options to protect themselves. So for a ratio system to work, the 3-person team would have to be powered down a little, and it would take away from the classic KOF feel.
They can just make a throw-away 1-person team option that has some nominal benefits but just doesn't come up at all in high-level play, or they could perhaps take the Capcom SF6 approach with Modern controls, and make the simpler-to-learn 1-character option potentially strong at high-level. It might even make the game a little varied if certain characters benefit more from being in teams vs being alone, similar to how people are realizing that SF6's Modern controls are very potent for some characters (like Luke) that benefit from easier motions even at the cost of access to some moves, while others (like Ryu) lose too much for the easier input advantage to be worth it.
I guess my suggestion wouldn't be very popular among players, but... what if each new KOF game started with only 8 teams (thus 24 characters) and the additional teams only started to be added after, say, four months after the game release?
I know that team-based fighting games need bigger rosters, but I think 8 teams would be a pretty decent number for a default roster. That could help SNK to have players get used to all the roster and ensure that the least popular characters would at least have some months of visibility and relevance before the DLC teams started to get added (one team being added every 1~2 months).
While not exactly a best-seller among fighting games, 2013's Killer Instinct benefitted a lot from starting with a small roster (sure, 6 fighters may have been a little too small, but still) and expanding it at a slower pace. In the end, each of its 29 fighters ended up feeling unique to the players, even the ones that would normally feel like fillers (like Shadow Jago, Omen and Shin Hisako). And considering how KOF has never been a best-selling series itself and that the fanbase seems to be supporting its DLC for both XIV and XV, maybe the KI formula could work for SNK as well. I mean, it's not like they have much to lose at this point, anyway.
(SNK could also bring back the teammates appearing in the background and cheering for their partner that is fighting like in '94-'98 and SNK Heroines, but that may be just my nostalgia speaking for myself)
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| | "Re(3):How much of a detriment are KOF teams?" , posted Tue 23 May 10:44
quote:
I guess my suggestion wouldn't be very popular among players, but... what if each new KOF game started with only 8 teams (thus 24 characters) and the additional teams only started to be added after, say, four months after the game release?
With SNK's low game delivery rate, I do kind of wish they'd take something similar to Killer Instinct's approach to storytelling. Instead of trying to deliver a larger arc across multiple games, do it as multiple chapters within a single game.
For example, instead of getting KOF15, characters like Dolores and Isla would have been DLC for KOF14, and 15's story would have been delivered as the "Season 2" story for 14.
On a separate matter, I also kind of wish SNK would design their bosses to be playable... If they did, then maybe they'd put a bit more effort into their boss designs. They rely too much on flash over substance, and the flash isn't even that flashy anymore anyway. Verse felt like a parody of a lackluster boss design, Shizuka Gozen (SamSho) was forgettable, ReVerse looked like a knock-off Riot of Blood character, Otoma-Raga was dull, Mukai-Saiki was a half-finished character at best, Saiki-Ash was a palette swap with SNK boss moves... (Heck, going back even further, I don't think Orochi even had the ability to crouch?)
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| | "Re(3):Najd trailer" , posted Fri 21 Jul 05:12
quote:
Hopefully this time Najd will get an ending to develop her background and involvement in the overall KOF lore. It's kinda odd how SNK added her as a DLC in XIV, indicating that there were plans to properly introduce her in the following game... and then she didn't make into the default roster for XV.
The fact that Kim and Shingo got endings in XV despite being solo fighters may be a good sign for her.
Shingo and Kim didn't really get "endings" though, they got those one-screen post-credit dialogues that everyone gets when they're paired with a specific set of characters. I imagine Najd will be no different.
They do at least seem to have given her a fair number of dialogue scenes, so maybe that's enough lore?
My bad; yes, that's what I meant when I wrote "endings" (Shingo's post-credit dialogue seems to indicate that he was a late entry into the XV tournament, for example).
At this point, yes, that's as much "lore" as we can realistically expect for Najd. And hey, it's still better than what Rugal and Goenitz got, anyway (if I'm not mistaken, the two of them didn't even get a post-credit dialogue despite XV having several of their allies and enemies, did they?)
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| "Re(1):Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves" , posted Sun 6 Aug 09:11
quote:
As informative as an announcement of an announcement, there is a teaser trailer for Fatal Fury City of the Wolves.
Hear some random voice lines, and look at models of Terry and Ash. Are they the KOF XV models? Modified? I haven't played KOF XV in so long that I cannot really remember what their models looked like there.
Rock and Terry look mostly the same as their XV models but with different shading effects.
From the voices I'm hearing Rock, Andy, Mai, Jenet, Joe, Billy, Marco, Hotaru, Gato, Tizoc (woo), Kain, and Terry.
I'm hoping with the name and the map that it's going to end up being SNK's take on SF6's World Tour.
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| | "Re(2):Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves" , posted Sun 6 Aug 12:40
quote:
From the voices I'm hearing Rock, Andy, Mai, Jenet, Joe, Billy, Marco, Hotaru, Gato, Tizoc (woo), Kain, and Terry.
I'm hoping with the name and the map that it's going to end up being SNK's take on SF6's World Tour.
That would be a great roster! A nice mix of the FF and MOTW rosters; maybe if SNK could just add Blue Mary, Duck King, one or two of the taekwondo fighters (either Kim and/or his sons) and one of the capoeira fighters (Richard or Bob), that would be perfect.
And yes, a World Tour mode (or City Tour, in this case) would be great for this game; Southtown has a lot of interesting locations to be (re)visited.
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| | "Re(10):Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves" , posted Tue 15 Aug 10:16
quote:
Then again, maybe SNK will eliminate the different timelines and have CotW take place in the AOF timeline, where everyone has the same age they had in their original games and never get old (including Athena being a schoolgirl in 1994 and still being a schoolgirl in 2003).
I'd guess that is the route SNK will, and perhaps even should, go.
The final Art of Fighting game was released 27 years ago. Even when the series was active, it felt like it was perhaps SNK's least popular fighting game franchises.
King of Fighters jumped the AOF cast forward in time to match the Fatal Fury cast 29 years ago. KOF gradually became SNK's most popular franchise, for better or worse became the center of SNK's fighting game universe, and continues to see new releases over its nearly three decade run.
I'd expect most of the current potential audience don't even know (or remember) that AOF was originally set around a decade or whatever before FF, unless they happened to read or hear about it online.
If SNK kept a time difference, I'd expect it to be squashed down across all the franchises so that AOF, at least character age-wise, effectively ends up set only a few years before Mark of the Wolves. While KOF itself would remain even more fluid with its characters.
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| | "Re(2):Re(10):Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves" , posted Sat 19 Aug 05:42
quote:
Then again, maybe SNK will eliminate the different timelines and have CotW take place in the AOF timeline, where everyone has the same age they had in their original games and never get old (including Athena being a schoolgirl in 1994 and still being a schoolgirl in 2003).
I'd guess that is the route SNK will, and perhaps even should, go.
The final Art of Fighting game was released 27 years ago. Even when the series was active, it felt like it was perhaps SNK's least popular fighting game franchises.
King of Fighters jumped the AOF cast forward in time to match the Fatal Fury cast 29 years ago. KOF gradually became SNK's most popular franchise, for better or worse became the center of SNK's fighting game universe, and continues to see new releases over its nearly three decade run.
I'd expect most of the current potential audience don't even know (or remember) that AOF was originally set around a decade or whatever before FF, unless they happened to read or hear about it online.
If SNK kept a time difference, I'd expect it to be squashed down across all the franchises so that AOF, at least character age-wise, effectively ends up set only a few years before Mark of the Wolves. While KOF itself would remain even more fluid with its characters.
Good point.
And to be fair, it's unlikely that any AOF character will be in CotW, anyway; the only ones who I guess would have any chance of appearing in it would be Ryo (probably under the "Mr. Karate" name), with some facial hair to give them an ambiguous visual difference that could either indicate that he got older... or that he just forgot to shave for a week or so.
Sadly, I guess Kyo and/or Iori would even have a higher chance of appearing in CotW than Ryo, Robert et al.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| | "Re(1):KOFXV - Duo Lon" , posted Thu 7 Sep 05:55:
quote:
Duo Lon trailer is out, and he looks great! I didn't expect him to be released so soon.
Only one other character is missing.
Duo Lon was one of the most interesting characters from the Ash arc, so it's good to see him back.
Now, who could the final character be? Shen Woo, perhaps (so that he can rejoin Duo Lon and Ash)? Seth (to allow players to reunite him with Vanessa and Ramon)? Hotaru (marking her first KOF as a canon fighter and bringing the MOTW and KOF continuities closer)? May Lee (...I mean, if SNK bothered to bring Krohnen back, why not her as well, right?)? Kasumi would be my first choice, but I doubt many KOF players like her enough to pay extra DLC money just for her...
Come to think of it, it's quite shocking that Mature and Vice won't join XV's roster even as DLC characters, as I doubt that SNK would give the final spot for one of them and leave the other out. Unless it turns out that both will count as a single fighter (like Chang & Choi in CvS2), but that would be quite a risky move.
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
[this message was edited by Just a Person on Thu 7 Sep 06:08] |
| | "Re(2):KOFXV - Duo Lon" , posted Thu 7 Sep 15:59
quote:
Duo Lon trailer is out, and he looks great! I didn't expect him to be released so soon.
Only one other character is missing.
Duo Lon was one of the most interesting characters from the Ash arc, so it's good to see him back.
Now, who could the final character be? Shen Woo, perhaps (so that he can rejoin Duo Lon and Ash)? Seth (to allow players to reunite him with Vanessa and Ramon)? Hotaru (marking her first KOF as a canon fighter and bringing the MOTW and KOF continuities closer)? May Lee (...I mean, if SNK bothered to bring Krohnen back, why not her as well, right?)? Kasumi would be my first choice, but I doubt many KOF players like her enough to pay extra DLC money just for her...
Come to think of it, it's quite shocking that Mature and Vice won't join XV's roster even as DLC characters, as I doubt that SNK would give the final spot for one of them and leave the other out. Unless it turns out that both will count as a single fighter (like Chang & Choi in CvS2), but that would be quite a risky move.
From the silhouette they showed the last character should be female, so no Shen Woo or Seth.
But what if they start another season after this one?
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| PSN: SeizyaStarlight
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: n/a
| "Re(2):Hinako" , posted Tue 21 Nov 13:02
quote:
It's not much of a trailer, but Hinako is the last DLC character of the season.
Hinako, eh? It's quite surprising that she made it into the roster over Mature and Vice. Personally, she's not the character I'd choose to add into XV, but she's far from being the worst choice, either.
Now, the question is: will XV get a Season 3? This trailer doesn't have any indication of more content coming up, but I guess it would be foolish for SNK to move on to XVI when they should be working on the next Garou game, so maybe they could dedicate their efforts into Garou and use the spare time to make a couple more characters for XV to keep the game alive.
I died a little when I heard that Hinako's added here because that's what Neo Ryu would've wanted. Too bad Kawasumi Ayako-san's not voicing her anymore. Tamura Akane-san's Hinako's cute, but it's not Kawasumi-san's. (I still hate Koshimizu Ami-san's Mai though because her voice doesn't annoy opponents, and I still shake my head in a bad way at SNK seeing that they never did let Sogi Akoya-san stay as Mai until she became a little old lady. [See "1996" bonus.])
"XV" will get a season 3. Should be asking "When?" instead. Ha!
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| | "Re(1):SNK Stuff" , posted Sun 21 Jul 11:23
quote:
During an Evo interview, someone from SNK (I forgot who) noted that the proposed new AoF would be "fully in the 1970's" as well as possibly putting out a new SS ARPG. Was this new information? I wonder how close these games are to becoming reality and how much of it was that the SNK delegation had too many highballs at the casino lounge to warm up for going on stream.
I don't know what to think about this news... yes, it would be nice to see AOF back, and a SS ARPG sounds interesting, but is SNK actually capable of working on so many projects at the same time, when every other current fighting game developer is focusing on a single title? As for the new AOF taking place in the 1970s, it makes sense with the old games, but ever since AOF and FF got left aside in favor of KOF, I was under the impression that SNK was trying to ignore the original timeline with the big time gap between AOF and FF (and between FF and MotW) and have KOF's timeline as the only one existing. Guess it wasn't the case.
Anyway, speaking of KOF, Mature and Vice will (finally) join XV's roster, and SVC:Chaos will be re-released (personally, I think NGBC would be a much better choice than Chaos, but what do I know?).
Maybe I'm this person right in front of you... nah probably not though.
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| PSN: Ishmael26b
XBL: n/a
Wii: n/a
STM: n/a
CFN: Ishmael26b
| "Re(2):SNK Stuff" , posted Mon 22 Jul 21:37
quote:
I don't know what to think about this news... yes, it would be nice to see AOF back, and a SS ARPG sounds interesting, but is SNK actually capable of working on so many projects at the same time, when every other current fighting game developer is focusing on a single title? As for the new AOF taking place in the 1970s, it makes sense with the old games, but ever since AOF and FF got left aside in favor of KOF, I was under the impression that SNK was trying to ignore the original timeline with the big time gap between AOF and FF (and between FF and MotW) and have KOF's timeline as the only one existing. Guess it wasn't the case.
Anyway, speaking of KOF, Mature and Vice will (finally) join XV's roster, and SVC:Chaos will be re-released (personally, I think NGBC would be a much better choice than Chaos, but what do I know?).
I got the feeling SNK's man was throwing out game pitches in the hopes of drumming up enough interest to make them a reality. It's questionable if SNK has the manpower to make all these games or a large enough audience to support these titles, but I don't blame them for being ambitious in their vision for the future.
Then again, they thought bringing back SvC -of all games- was a groovy idea so maybe I was right the first time and they are totally loaded up on highballs.
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"SNK Stuff Thread 24- Summer 2020 Edition" , posted Sat 16 May 01:34
Expresso
"Re(2):Nippon ichi!" , posted Sat 10 Apr 04:38
"Re(8):Nippon ichi!" , posted Thu 15 Apr 06:59
"Re(1):Chris" , posted Mon 3 May 02:33
"Re(3):Chris" , posted Tue 4 May 05:12
"Army Girl" , posted Sat 15 May 02:06
"Team Ikari" , posted Thu 20 May 11:15:
"Re(1):Release date expectations shattered" , posted Sun 6 Jun 03:01
"Re(1):Non-Ladies' Team ladies' team?" , posted Sat 26 Jun 01:40
"Re(6):Viva Mexico!" , posted Mon 12 Jul 13:48
"Re(1):Antonov made a pro-wrestling team" , posted Thu 12 Aug 12:32
"Re(1):Leaks leaking" , posted Mon 23 Aug 02:42
"Re(1):KOF XV trailer" , posted Thu 26 Aug 08:18
"Ash returns" , posted Fri 3 Sep 09:11
"Re(2):Ash returns" , posted Sun 5 Sep 04:52
"Re(8):Kukri and SNK Heroines Tag Team Frenzy" , posted Wed 29 Sep 03:15
"Re(2):Heidern trailer" , posted Mon 18 Oct 10:20
"Re(2):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Sat 6 Nov 02:21
"Re(4):Dolores and Team Rival" , posted Mon 8 Nov 02:44
"Whip it good!" , posted Thu 11 Nov 11:44
"Re(2):Whip it good!" , posted Thu 11 Nov 16:33
"Re(4):Angel trailer" , posted Sat 27 Nov 15:38
"Re(3):K9999 returneth??" , posted Sun 12 Dec 03:51
"Re(6):K9999 returneth??" , posted Tue 14 Dec 12:22
"Ice Princess" , posted Thu 6 Jan 14:36
"Talbain for real??" , posted Thu 6 Oct 07:43.png)
"Re(3):Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves" , posted Sun 6 Aug 11:49
"Flashback to 2003" , posted Mon 22 Jul 07:51